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United States47024 Posts
On September 23 2011 00:34 Seuss wrote:
It wasn't my intention to assert that Skarner and Udyr are perfectly equatable, but to address the comparison with Morde. While one can argue that Udyr is superior, arguing that Skarner is useless beyond farming the jungle seems difficult without also arguing the same for Udyr.
How do you mean?
I gave you two ways in which Udyr as a jungler impacts the early game in ways Skarner doesn't (ability to counterjungle due to speed and 1v1 fighting advantage, and ability to threaten Dragon early). So no, "arguing that Skarner is useless beyond farming the jungle" can be done without implying the same of Udyr because Udyr is a comparatively capable counterjungler and early Dragoner.
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+ Show Spoiler [Graves patch changes] +Skarner
Attack Speed per level increased to 2.1% from 1.44%
Energize will no longer activate when attacking Towers.
Crystal Slash Mana cost decreased to 15 at all ranks from 22/24/26/28/30
Fracture will now heal Skarner if Fracture kills its target.
Impale duration increased to 1.75 from 1.5 seconds
Hextech Gunblade
Attack Damage reduced to 40 from 60
Ability Power reduced to 70 from 75
Life Steal reduced to 15% from 20%
Spell Vamp reduced to 20% from 25% and is now UNIQUE
It might be too early to ask, but does anyone think the changes to Skarner will make him excel at a certain role? Also, is the new Gunblade still better on him than something like BT/Sanguine or Starks?
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Gunblade is still better than BT for Skarner, but I'm not sure where it stands in the grand scheme of things. I suspect that finishing Trinity Force after Wit's End is a better move at this point, but I haven't had a chance to test yet.
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Anyone had some good time to play with him post-buffs? I've gotten a few games in and really noticed an improvement in the jungle (actually have a mana bar now) but been busy.
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so
skarner is brokenly OP right now
i ban him every game, and if he's not banned i pick him. i have only lost once with him and that was due to my own failure. if i'm playing skarner it doesn't matter what my teammates do; as long as I don't make any fatal errors, i will win the game singlehandedly lol
runes you want a mix of arpen (12 total), armor (13ish), and as much attackspeed as you can muster. MS quints and MR/level blues are acceptable but will slow your jungle.
0/14/16 including nimbleness
blue (leashed) wolves wraiths red golems (clear time ~3:30, only 2-3 pots used unless you had an awful leash, then 3-4 pots used), gank, wolves wraiths golems back
cloth + 5
wriggles
mercs (important to finish boots 2 before first item, mobility is KEY on skarner)
RAGEblade
appropriate tank items including wit's end, force of nature, frozen heart, randuin, shurelia
basically you have 2 roles:
1. shurelia + W or W + flash the SECOND you see someone that isn't alistar/rammus/renekton out of position, R them into your team, force the enemy to fight a 4v5
2. in a teamfight that's initiated before you get there or one where your ult is not needed to intiate, use your ult to isolate a single opponent and 1v1 them to all hell. skarner with just rageblade is absolutely batshit insane for damage. your E + W gives you so much unbelievable effective hidden HP that you can CRUSH people that are much more farmed than you by just being balls to the wall aggressive. as long as you aren't exhausted you'll beat anyone 1v1.
solo top skarner is even better but you'll have a hard time getting your team to let you do that. in solo top you basically want to just last hit peacefully until your opponent moves into harass you. as soon as they're in Q range, just Q auto auto Q auto Q auto. you will first of all kill all their creeps as they try to hide in them, effectively eliminating creep aggro, and second of all win every damage trade. against true sustainers it's important to just combo them down from full to zero or burn summoners - you won't win a war of attrition against irelia or udyr, but you WILL be able to kill them in a 1v1 so just force committed fights any time you can
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gtrsrs whats your skill order r>q>w>e?
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wriggles is ok, I'm not sure you need it though. rip through creeps pretty hard anyway. I've been starting cloth and just buying ninja tabi on my first back, crazy ganks with level 2 boots and red a few minutes into the game.
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United States47024 Posts
Anyone feel like getting E at all before you have to is kind of useless? Even on 3-creep camps, the heal from rank 1 E is just barely more than the increased shield value from having another point in W (30 + 15 + 7 = 52 HP healed, compared to +45 shield value per rank of W). It does some damage, but its arguably not worth the mana, especially when you don't have blue buff. I'd much rather have another rank of W for more of the MS/AS steroid and shield.
Obviously this changes with AP sources in the equation, but I'd still think that I wouldn't get a point in E until like level 10.
And yeah, the other thing is that Wriggle's feels kind of unnecessary, and I don't think you can afford to wait till after you've spent 3800 on Wriggle's + Rageblade to tank out unless you're doing really well. I can see the argument for having Wriggle's (ASpd steroid + Wriggle's lets you present a much earlier Dragon threat, for one), but if you end up getting it, you may have to delay finishing Rageblade till after you tank out a bit, possibly opting for a more economical damage item like Stinger or Sheen instead.
EDIT: Looking at the OP, QEQW definitely feels like the wrong way to open, IMO. 70 HP shield on 1st rank W is more damage blocked than the amount of HP healed from rank 1 E, and the attack speed steroid from W should translate into more damage than rank 1 E. Not to mention having W at level 2-3 lets you more easily attempt level 3 ganks if one of the nearby lanes has the opportunity for one. Either QWQW or QWQE depending on whether you feel having E at level 4 is worthwhile or not.
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QEQW
i see all your arguments yango but the thing you are not taking into account is that E does damage FASTER than W. it's an instant aoe nuke that bursts down wolves/wraiths extremely quickly. while W might be a bit safer, it's also much slower because (a) W's cooldown is like triple E's cooldown, and (b) W doesn't do AOE damage. in a world where clearing the jungle as fast as scorpionly possible is priority #1 (because then you can run into your opponent's jungle and steal his camps and you hit 6 faster which is huge for skarner) i can't see giving up E at level 2. BUT after that i max R > Q > W > E. ESPECIALLY considering that skarner needs like 2 pots anyways, a "safer" opening is totally unnecessary
as for wriggles, the ward is invaluable ofc. in a few games where i got a successful gank off on my first run, i went razer -> boots -> pickaxe -> rageblade -> wriggles later, but i do feel like with the build that i choose to use (with so little true HP) you need the lifesteal for more effective HP
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Skarner should prioritize jungle speed over jungle safety. QWQW is stronger for ganking but QEQW gets you red and 6 faster = also stronger ganks.
R>Q>W>E with one point in E at 2 and maybe a second at 8 or 10.
Rageblade or Gunblade or Triforce into pure tank, with one more DPS item 5th or 6th.
Gunblade leaves you lacking in aspd
Rageblade leaves you lacking in sustain
Triforce is like rageblade but with more speed. Not recommended.
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Is there a good route that starts longsword? That seems like it would be pretty unfair.
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On October 23 2011 09:05 UniversalSnip wrote:
Is there a good route that starts longsword? That seems like it would be pretty unfair.
You could almost definitely start wolves wraiths golems, back for clothe and 2 pots, and then do a full route BUT it still won't get you to 6 and I think against level 2 or 4 gankers it could delay your gank too much
I'll try it tonight though and let you know
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i have 2 quadras and 1 penta w/him since the buff 
OP.
Jungle w/him
Wriggles -> boots -> sheen -> finish merc -> revolver -> finish triforce -> finish gunblade -> (Sunfire/FoN/Abyssal depending) GG everything.
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So has anyone tried a Stinger rush on Skarner a la GD thread?
I still think Nashor's Tooth sucks, but Smash's defense of Stinger in the GD was very intriguing. So does it work or no?
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I just went stinger rush... it was good.
I can't say I've built any items that HAVEN'T been good on him so far though. The sketchiest thing I've tried has been ghostblade and even that was ok.
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yeah...
like i was saying
skarner is just straight broken right now
you can literally do anything you want and your teammates can do anything they want
and you will win 80% of your games without trying
![[image loading]](http://i56.tinypic.com/ic1wsl.jpg)
this was solo top and yes this was solo queue not arranged 5s
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Basically any combination of Wriggle's/Sheen/Stinger/Wit's End/Gunblade/Rageblade will make you able to 1v1 any opponent who can't instagib you. Your most dangerous opponents are people like Malzahar. Everyone else it's just a question of whether you can kill them before they run to their team or a tower.
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![[image loading]](http://i53.tinypic.com/2zefktz.png)
This thing is borken
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fyi, lvl 2 E is infinitely better than W at lvl 2. E heals + 80 aoe damage nuke that you can use around twice a small camp. W doesnt make you much faster as the shield breaks so fast that it does nothing for you practically in terms on jungle speed.
btw, can do wolf wraith double with long sword pot
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Longsword first isn't great unless you really wanna rush bruta or phage or hexdrinker (lol)
Do Cloth first or something that builds into a good cheap ganking or jungling item (boots, sheen, w/e)
QEQW is better for jungling but QWQW is better for ganking. Judgement call.
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EPT
