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On January 13 2012 01:10 Slayer91 wrote:
Guys I've been playing wriggles + wits end-->rageblade///Frozen heart+FoN style where I tend to just initiate but then stay back instead of diving squishies, but the style I've seen mostly is going FULL tank with like shurelyas+randuins+frozen heart. I know skarner has good base damage and CC which lets him get away with it but you think it's superior? I guess it depends on who the top is because If I'm needed to be that guy to deal with their AD carry then It's probably the best thing to go with. Maybe just a wits end for damage?
Also I think skarners mana costs are actually feeling pretty high in the jungle, maybe It's becauase I use level 1 E though. I generally find I want a mana item, sheen sometimes but almost always glacial. I think that his W movement boost lasts WAY too long though, considering how big it is it's like a free ghost. The uptime should rely more on hitting the target especially when this fucker already has a perma slow.
doesnt it depend mostly on the opposing ad carry's farm and the support champ?
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Hey skarn is free this week so I've been playing him, but I'm finding the jungle a bit difficult doing a regrowth + pot -> philostone -> HoG opening.
I can't seem to get 365 gold before being forced to return home and/or die.
Does skarn need a strong leash for blue in the jungle? Do I need a different path? Right now I do blue -> wolves -> wraiths -> golems, and I can't quite kill the golems even using 2nd smite. Maybe I need a different opening?
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On March 13 2012 04:53 BlasiuS wrote:
Hey skarn is free this week so I've been playing him, but I'm finding the jungle a bit difficult doing a regrowth + pot -> philostone -> HoG opening.
I can't seem to get 365 gold before being forced to return home and/or die.
Does skarn need a strong leash for blue in the jungle? Do I need a different path? Right now I do blue -> wolves -> wraiths -> golems, and I can't quite kill the golems even using 2nd smite. Maybe I need a different opening?
what runes and masteries?
you should also be doing wolves -> blue -> wraiths -> wolves -> red -> wraiths with no trouble whatsoever.
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On March 13 2012 04:57 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 04:53 BlasiuS wrote:
Hey skarn is free this week so I've been playing him, but I'm finding the jungle a bit difficult doing a regrowth + pot -> philostone -> HoG opening.
I can't seem to get 365 gold before being forced to return home and/or die.
Does skarn need a strong leash for blue in the jungle? Do I need a different path? Right now I do blue -> wolves -> wraiths -> golems, and I can't quite kill the golems even using 2nd smite. Maybe I need a different opening? what runes and masteries? you should also be doing wolves -> blue -> wraiths -> wolves -> red -> wraiths with no trouble whatsoever.
I am level 15.
2/12/1 for my Masteries.
Offense
2 Butcher
Defense
1 Summoner's Resolve
3 Resistance
4 Durability
3 Vigor
1 Veteran Scars
Utility
1 Summoner's Insight
I have no runes (saving for T3)
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On March 13 2012 05:08 BlasiuS wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 04:57 Mogwai wrote:On March 13 2012 04:53 BlasiuS wrote:
Hey skarn is free this week so I've been playing him, but I'm finding the jungle a bit difficult doing a regrowth + pot -> philostone -> HoG opening.
I can't seem to get 365 gold before being forced to return home and/or die.
Does skarn need a strong leash for blue in the jungle? Do I need a different path? Right now I do blue -> wolves -> wraiths -> golems, and I can't quite kill the golems even using 2nd smite. Maybe I need a different opening? what runes and masteries? you should also be doing wolves -> blue -> wraiths -> wolves -> red -> wraiths with no trouble whatsoever. I am level 15. 2/12/1 for my Masteries. Offense2 Butcher Defense1 Summoner's Resolve 3 Resistance 4 Durability 3 Vigor 1 Veteran Scars Utility1 Summoner's Insight I have no runes (saving for T3)
Without runes I'd probably recommend opening cloth5 on junglers. Also I could be wrong, but maybe switch 2 points from vigor/util tree into indomitable. That mastery is probably the better option for increasing durability in jungle, moreso than even the armor masteries.
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Just put it all in defense. Get the -2 minion damage, -2 damage, 6 damage on hit masteries and +6 armour and veteran scars if you can. They are the most important for junglers. Consider going cloth+5.
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since skarner is falling off the ban-wagon (LOL GET IT) i've finally gotten to play him some more
here's my revised set-up and route
note: with the prevalence of stronger junglers and counterjunglers, i no longer try to counterjungle with skarner unless i'm 100% sure it's safe (i.e. see the enemy jungler ganking a lane opposite of where i am). and i NEVER try to invade. you must start blue, it's essential, not starting at your blue hurts you more than stealing enemy wraiths/red hurts them
0/21/9 emphasizing movespeed
arpen quint, AS red, armor yellow, mr/level blue
regrowth + 1 pot
wolves -> blue (smite) -> wraiths -> wolves -> red (smite, use health pot) -> wraiths -> gank if possible or golems -> gank -> wraiths -> wolves -> back
assuming no successful ganks you will have approx 930 gold at this point, finish philo, boots 1, 2 pots, ward
ward for your top laner, wolves wraiths golems, blue will be up. blue + wolves will get you to 6. if you give blue to mid lane, half the exp from blue, wolves, wraiths will get you to 6
item core is philo, boots1, wriggles, boots2 of choice (nearly always mercs), wit's/glacial depending on enemy damage type, wit's/glacial, frozen heart, force of nature if needing tankiness/shurelia if needing initiate/sheen if needing damage, shurelia, triforce
the mana return from big creep sigils goes a long way. the only time i ever feel slightly oom is right before i hit 6 and try to gank, if i didn't take second blue. pay extra attention to mana at that time. i don't know why i moved away from rageblade or early sheen, but wit's just feels more natural now. aegis is a good filler item if you're behind.
1650 elo, 144 games with skarner, 61% winrate
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it really speeds up your jungle since your Q is half physical and you do a ton of auto attacks
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Surely AD gives you more damage than armour pen when jungle mobs don't have that much armour?
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don't jungle creeps have 10 armor? 3.33 arpen each from quints nets you true damage on them
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Armour pen quints aren't that efficient as well, you might be able to improve your page by putting 10 armour pen marks and then rest in AS and AS quints.
Edit, just checked.
Wolves: 9/6/6
Blue 20/8/8
Wraiths: 15/5/5
Red 20/8/8
Golems 12/12
So 5 armour pen is the most efficient amount there.
Actually Armour quints seem to be similar efficiency to AS quints, maybe just AD quints super good.
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scratch that
3 arpen quints, full AS reds gives 10 arpen, 15% AS
3 AS quints, 3 AS reds, 6 arpen reds gives 10 arpen, 15% AS
3 AS quints, 3 AS reds, 4 arpen reds, 2 AD red gives 6.7 arpen, 15% AS, +1.9AD
:s
i really want the AS and some arpen, stop doing math! i don't know why this page works it just does!
i think 8.3 would be the minimum arpen i'd want, and at that point, the +0.95 AD really isn't that significant, is it? haha, idk, it just feels like an insanely small modification :c i suppose i could try it though
actually i guess you kill the small lizards at buffs through mostly incidental damage, you could probably get away with 6.7 arpen in reds.
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Well, I actually just run AS and AD. His Q has an AD ratio and in the early levels I think AD outperforms arpen slightly in the first couple levels, maybe armorpen is a bit better later.
Also going for philo on skarner now, still want some damage items though unless we're super behind. wriggles is okay, thinking about wits or rageblade instead though. Not sure if I want both wriggles and wits, would be flamed by my teams too much xD.
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On April 05 2012 06:44 Slayer91 wrote:
Well, I actually just run AS and AD. His Q has an AD ratio and in the early levels I think AD outperforms arpen slightly in the first couple levels, maybe armorpen is a bit better later.
Also going for philo on skarner now, still want some damage items though unless we're super behind. wriggles is okay, thinking about wits or rageblade instead though. Not sure if I want both wriggles and wits, would be flamed by my teams too much xD.
i guess, now that i'm thinking about it, my logic is this:
your early game speed is actually gated by your help at wolves, because the faster you kill wolves, the faster they respawn so you are waiting around for less time after wraiths. therefore, doing slightly more damage early just means you stand around more early. doing slightly less damage early doesn't really hurt you, but i feel like 10 arpen on ganks is much stronger than a little more AD. i would have to have suess or yango do all the heavy mathwork because i am LAZY and mostly rely on experience to tailor my runepages, not math
wit's i'm still only getting early against 2 AP or a magic damage jungler or heavy damage support. tbh it's pretty hard to get the stacks up during teamfights because you usually do something like flash -> ult -> W away -> Q, so you're not getting your stacks until after you've already exposed yourself to the enemy team.
i will eventually try rageblade on him again, but my main reason for rageblade 5 months ago was that skarner was bar-none the best dueler and fastest jungler in the game sans udyr. now that more people play champs that can wreck you 1v1 (shyvana, mundo, olaf come to mind), i shy away from running into enemy jungle to try to kill them.
my skarner build timeline has been:
1. razer, rageblade rush, tank
2. wriggles, sheen, tank, triforce
3. philo, sheen, tank, triforce
4. philo, HoG, tank + CDR
5. my build now
i've gone from very offensive builds to very defensive builds, and this one is somewhere nicely in-between, i feel.
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Well, I used to do exactly your build without the philo, maybe I should stick with it.
I woulda thought rageblade was a teamfight thing. AP for heals/shielding/damage and AD for sick dps especailly with a wits not to mention CDR. Can sit at the back slowing some bruisers barely taking any damage from all the sustain and shielidng you have until an opportunity to dive in comes up. You need some armour/mr and levels in E to get to that stage, though.
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gtr, what've your experiences been with Zeke's Herald (possibly in place of Wriggles+Wit's)? I guess pre-nerf Skarner still has me leery of getting Wriggles on him, and I find it hard to get/maintain Wit's stacks on him in teamfights if I'm expected to initiate - he can eat a lot of poke/burst in doing so. OTOH, Udyr has a similar run-up-to-people thing and he does fine with Wit's; could just be my perceptions.
Any reason why movespeed quints aren't being considered?
Vaguely wonder if it'd be worth rushing Reverie on him (ie Reverie + boots2 before branching out), just for the added mana regen+cdr/earlier HYPERSCORPION threat
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On April 05 2012 18:28 Haasts wrote:
gtr, what've your experiences been with Zeke's Herald (possibly in place of Wriggles+Wit's)? I guess pre-nerf Skarner still has me leery of getting Wriggles on him, and I find it hard to get/maintain Wit's stacks on him in teamfights if I'm expected to initiate - he can eat a lot of poke/burst in doing so. OTOH, Udyr has a similar run-up-to-people thing and he does fine with Wit's; could just be my perceptions.
Any reason why movespeed quints aren't being considered?
Vaguely wonder if it'd be worth rushing Reverie on him (ie Reverie + boots2 before branching out), just for the added mana regen+cdr/earlier HYPERSCORPION threat
movespeed quints are fine, they're just not for me. W puts you near or over the soft-cap for movespeed really easily, so your MS quints are devalued during the heat of combat. i do run 1 movespeed quint on WW and 3 on udyr, for what it's worth. just don't find them super necessary or better than arpen on skarner.
i really like zeke's on shyvana, but i haven't found it useful on skarner. i'll give it a couple runs and see, but shyvana gets so much free defense in dragon form that you can get away with building more HP-centric items. skarner, on the other hand, gets a ton of free HP from W, so you want to build more resists.
shurelia rush is perfectly legit on skarner, just not how i play him. it is totally acceptable and i've seen people do fine rushing it.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
Yo guys, played 20some skarner games in ranked, it's only 1600 elo, but I'd like to share my thoughts/just write stuff.
For picking skarner, his most valuable asset are awesome ganks past lvl 6, ability to duel anyone (-Olaf) after aquiring his first attack speed item (exception being a few guys with redbuff) and his mobility that allows him to push farther than most and be bolder than most - though not nidalee level it is still very good.
I do not think him to be a good initiator, not only because when enemy team has stun of any kind you aren't gonna drag anyone anywhere, but also because very often AD carry is the ONLY viable target - more than half the AP carries enjoy being in the middle of your team (Kennen, Morgana, Galio, Vlad to a lesser extent). Ryze, Cassiopea and Veigar of course don't enjoy this, but in ideal level of play, that should be a non-factor, as jungle should usually be 1st-3rd pick, while AP carry a 4th-5th pick. Not only that, but AD carries enjoy building QSS whether you have skarner on your team or not.
His role in a teamfight is in my opinion very clear. Protect the AD carry by slowing the divers, damaging them severely and also dragging them away (does not apply to Olaf IIRC). You do not have enough innate survivability to be able to dive, your movement speed and damage buff relies on not being hit, and for the reasons already mentioned you can't just drag their AD carry as you please.
Afterwards he is exceptionally good at cleanup, being the superb duelist he is. Or he can run away, his movement speed buff is good enough to be able to do that.
I would not rate him as exceptional teamfighter, but he is adequate given his ganking and jungle-farming abilities.
For runes, I don't see the reasoning for ArPen - more than half his damage is magic (Q+R). I use attack speed Reds and Armor Yellows for obvious reasons, AP/lvl Blues for his sick AP ratios and Mspe quints for no particular reason except I like them. Masteries obviously 0/21/9, item build I usually do that standard Philo+Wit's end -> tank, Wit's just adds so much DPS that it is almost too good to pass up.
New build I am experimenting with though, is Nashor's tooth right after Philo, reason being that it completely solves his mana problems, CDR+AtkSpe are the 2 stats skarner scales the best with and he has sick AP ratios to boot. I especially like this build when someone else on my team builds Frozen Heart, feels like a waste to have 2 of them. Thoughts on that?
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EPT
