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I never said it was a significant clear advantage. My assertion was that 6% CDR will not increase your clear speed more than 17 points in Offense would.
Analyzing all those minute differences is also a waste of time unless you're going to set up a hyper accurate simulation. Without data, analysis at that level is extremely speculative and ultimately worthless. A good rebuttal to my position at this point is to simply go out and run a test to compare the two setups and measure the difference. Similarly, I have nothing further to say on the subject because to do so would waste your time, my time, and the time of anyone reading these walls of text unless I had test results to discuss.
This is one of the ways in which theorycraft gets a bad name. When two people spend more time throwing theories and speculative analysis at each other instead of running practical tests, doing hard math, or running simulations the result is unintelligible, unending, and useless.
Also the minion damage mastery is +4 damage, you get +2 per point. /nitpick
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After review, I think Slayer91 is on the money regarding Q max. Especially with the incoming PBE buff, it's significantly faster/more effective past the first couple of clears regardless of your rune/mastery build.
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The big question still is whether you want to clear creeps as fast as possible or if you want to farm your Q as much as possible.
Farming fast is worth more exp. Every level is worth like 700 gold in stats.
Farming slow means you get more Qs, and little wraiths don't hurt much. But each Q is +3 damage on little things. If you translate that to even 1 AD then that'd be about 30-40 bonus gold each last hit depending on whether you're comparing to long or BF sword. Gold efficiency people wouldn't be able to sleep knowing they missed 30-40 gold on every little wraith. But you obviously can't gank as much if you do this. I tried it, failed a steal on red at level 1, and was underleveled until the end of the game. The fact that I cleared slowly did not help.
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I'm going to test maxing E to power clear and see how it works out and how much you sacrifice on Q. Might be worth it in games you can't afford to stay in your jungle
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I tried maxing Q straight up, from taking 2 levels of E to clear faster, sacrificing a bit of Q farm (since it'll kill all little wraiths you'll get at most 1). It becomes a bit harder to farm in the midgame (one level of E adds 80 damage total, and 5 armour reduction, so if you cast it twice that's 160 damage in AoE), but it somewhat eases the Q farm. You still need to go back sometimes though, you don't lose your mana to fast, but around 7-8 it's fast enough that you may get oom for that crucial wither during a fight.
The game showed again how Nasus is susceptible to invades and counterjungling (we couldn't fight against Blitz+Rengar+Xin level 1 so I had to give up blue, thanksfully I got theirs). Rengar almost killed me by jumping me at their blue (WW left to go to lane, and TF only gave a minimal leash too) and he stayed in my jungle the whole time (near our golems, threatening to jump->Q me again as I was flash less and somewhat low, still chugging pots) so Xin had time to steal Red.
I hit 2 right before we saw Rengar not leaving once again, and TF reacted by running towards red, so I took Wither to stop Xin from running and we won the ensuing fight we won 3-0 (one assist for me).
My clearing speed was painfully slow after that, not having E and having Q on a long cd despite blue buff was especially harsh, and it took me some time to recover (while covering top who had a huge wave, a Rengar half HP and WW dead I managed to farm half the wave and kill Rengar in exchange for my life, so I made some gold and exp back).
Some lanes won pretty hard so it definitely helped (WW 3-1-1 and TF 1-0-2 after this played a lot obv.), but the most important thing I think was having TF on the team. He was obviously better than Ahri, but his constant roaming bot with ult made up a lot for all the pressure I couldn't apply (Vayne + Zyra vs MF + Blitz so Vayne had a pretty hard time, but I was too behind in exp. to be able to gank safely, especially since Nasus is pretty vulnerable to wards).
We had poke from TF and Zyra for poke + initiation, plus Vayne's passive, WW's E+ult and TF liking MS items + ult helped a lot with mobility.
Overall, I think TF is exactly the kind of pick that could cover jungle Nasus really well: mobile, safe and autonomous laner, and excellent ability to roam to make up for Nasus' lack of ganking pressure.
At one point he killed Ahri 1v1, a bit after I kept the second blue (I wasn't even 5 yet when I started it), and the combination of his blue card + 26% CDR Q downed it surprisingly fast. His Q's also dealing good damage to dragon with the +25% damage from SotAG.
How do you spec your utility, btw? Do you take all 3 lifesteal/spellvamp points? I'm running AD/armour/MR/MS runes and starting gold masteries for a ward and pots, and I find myself using at least 3 of my 4 pots on a normal clear because of the damage I take.
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Lifesteal? Wat? You get all the mana shit, gold shit, cdr and the final thing.
Actually change that a bit, skip the flash cd reduction and 1 point in mana regen for the biscuit and extra ward. Helps for invades.
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Is the extra starting gold worth it for jungle nasus? I'm just curious what you're gaining with starting items having the extra 50g.
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Hmm ok. Wasn't sure since Monte mentioned
Wards are something I'm planning on picking up instead of potions. There's little point in ending the first clear with full health and 4 potions when you can just ward.
I'd test how a clear goes with a "leash" on pot usage but I'm still saving for nasus >.< I just made a purchase Monday!
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On February 07 2013 00:22 mordek wrote:Hmm ok. Wasn't sure since Monte mentioned Show nested quote +Wards are something I'm planning on picking up instead of potions. There's little point in ending the first clear with full health and 4 potions when you can just ward. I'd test how a clear goes with a "leash" on pot usage but I'm still saving for nasus >.< I just made a purchase Monday!
People like you need to learn not to live champion to champion. Save up and you'll always be able to buy any champ you want. I have a rule now to always keep 6300 ip for emergencies :p
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Hahaha. I just don't play enough to gain lots of IP. I've almost only purchased champs that are recently reduced in price (Ez and Cait being my last two big purchases). But it's true I normally would but I bought Nidalee on impluse  Am I bad?
I'm only a game or two away from Nasus though. Excited as I always liked him.
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Here's the other thing....does anyone actually WANT Nasus to be good? I mean he's boring as fuck, you farm Q for 20 minutes and if anything happens you press RWE and right click while breaking your Q button. He firmly fits into the same camp as Garen and AD Sion as completely fucking braindead.
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get 2k elo with garen or ad sion or nasus and we can talk about how braindead they are
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On February 07 2013 06:21 sob3k wrote:
Here's the other thing....does anyone actually WANT Nasus to be good? I mean he's boring as fuck, you farm Q for 20 minutes and if anything happens you press RWE and right click while breaking your Q button. He firmly fits into the same camp as Garen and AD Sion as completely fucking braindead.
Someone at Riot does. This has been in the works for months.
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On February 07 2013 06:21 sob3k wrote:
Here's the other thing....does anyone actually WANT Nasus to be good? I mean he's boring as fuck, you farm Q for 20 minutes and if anything happens you press RWE and right click while breaking your Q button. He firmly fits into the same camp as Garen and AD Sion as completely fucking braindead.
I want Nasus to be good just so we can hear that buttery smooth voice more often.
The cycle of life and death continues indeed.
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On February 07 2013 06:26 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 06:21 sob3k wrote:
Here's the other thing....does anyone actually WANT Nasus to be good? I mean he's boring as fuck, you farm Q for 20 minutes and if anything happens you press RWE and right click while breaking your Q button. He firmly fits into the same camp as Garen and AD Sion as completely fucking braindead. I want Nasus to be good just so we can hear that buttery smooth voice more often. The cycle of life and death continues indeed.
Then you should watch my stream more often WHAAAAAT
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On February 07 2013 06:29 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 06:26 Requizen wrote:On February 07 2013 06:21 sob3k wrote:
Here's the other thing....does anyone actually WANT Nasus to be good? I mean he's boring as fuck, you farm Q for 20 minutes and if anything happens you press RWE and right click while breaking your Q button. He firmly fits into the same camp as Garen and AD Sion as completely fucking braindead. I want Nasus to be good just so we can hear that buttery smooth voice more often. The cycle of life and death continues indeed. Then you should watch my stream more often WHAAAAAT
Quiet tranny
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I think I'm sticking with Crit runes for reasons which should be obvious..
I'll probably swap over to defensive masteries sometime to try them out, but the more I play the more I agree with Slayer91 that Q max is ridiculous.
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On February 07 2013 06:21 sob3k wrote:
Here's the other thing....does anyone actually WANT Nasus to be good? I mean he's boring as fuck, you farm Q for 20 minutes and if anything happens you press RWE and right click while breaking your Q button. He firmly fits into the same camp as Garen and AD Sion as completely fucking braindead.
To be truthful i love farming for 20 minutes, then one shotting someone with Q
gets my blood pumping
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On February 08 2013 14:02 Seuss wrote:I think I'm sticking with Crit runes for reasons which should be obvious.. I'll probably swap over to defensive masteries sometime to try them out, but the more I play the more I agree with Slayer91 that Q max is ridiculous.
that feel when that crit
also, from rog:
+ Show Spoiler +Nasus becomes empowered in the sandstorm for 15 seconds,increasing his maximum Health by 300/450/600,Attack Range by 50/50/50,and cast ranges by 150/150/150.
Also W range increased from 700 to 800.
Seriously, wtf. Even if they change that crit stuff, this stuff seems like it'll break nasus
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EPT
