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On February 05 2013 12:31 101toss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 11:43 rhs408 wrote:
I just tried crit nasus as well in a custom, had some fun and got up to 80% crit rate along with frozen fist, was able to 1v5 the enemy team in about 15 seconds. Not sure if it's actually viable for real games though - after buying sheen and then a single IE (which in itself would be difficult to get in a game vs semi-competent players), I wasn't anywhere near as dominating as I thought I would be. You're only getting that huge damage blow 25% of the time, which is not very reliable or effective for the gold investment you're putting into it, especially in team fights. So I still don't think I'd ever get an IE or an Atma's for Nasus unless I was ridiculously fed, although TF should be a very nice buy now. the reasoning of of an atma's over other damage items is the following: 1. you can buy the money sword early and farm it up, finishing up atma's once your health pool is massive 2. atma's gives 45 armor, making it much less of a liability than IE/Hydra/LW/GB/PD/SotD/most damage items. 3. the cost, TF requires 3.9k while atma's is 2.3k (before money sword bonus is factored in) 4. atma's and money sword offers crit unlike hydra and whisper, and as of now q scales off crit (this may changed, we'll see) The argument that base ad doesn't matter on nasus is kinda faulty since 60+ bonus on q is still 60 bonus damage on Q and autoattacks. By this logic, you probably wouldn't need a damage item; might as well buy another health belt item
Sheen gives 150-160+ bonus damage on Q, much better than what you''ll get with AD.
Trinity gives a bunch of nice stats which makes it cost effective enough to justify the cost (arguably) but the slow speed and sheen parts are just really good on him and atmas just makes you hit harder but not as hard as if you had sheen instead.
Gold sword seems so meh, even if you hard farm the jungle 9 cs a minute is 18 gold a minute which is just 3 gp10 and 9 cs a min is pretty much the maximum if you never help anyone in lanes
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Managed to bag Nasus top vs an Irelia (one of the least bad matchups).... oh my god
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/oMyspfO.png)
Of note, Lee Sin was 1/9 and LB was making retarded decisions too. Bot lane was really holding their own though despite receiving the majority of ganks (Amumu tried top twice and failed both; abandoned after that. I suspect Irelia told him to help bot as Lee Sin had fed her two kills but we were even on CS). Lee Sin came top once and died; then died invading for Irelia's two kills
First big engagement happened just after I got my IEdge which was the real turning point
Build order
Avarice
Boots
Warmogs
Swifties
Sheen
IE
Distortion
Glacial
Tri Force
Had the game gone longer, I'd have finished the FH and then gotten a GA
edit: TP was wasted, barely used it as bot was constantly pushed and no deep wards
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On February 05 2013 16:30 Seuss wrote:
Here's the jungle setup I've really liked out of all my tests tonight:
Runes: Crit Quints/Marks/Seals, Armor Glyphs
Masteries: 21/9/0
Summoner Spells: Smite/Ghost
Build: Machete -> Spirit Stone + Boots -> Glacial + Kindle Gem -> Ancient Golem + Swiftness Boots -> Spirit Visage + Frozen Heart -> Last Whisper -> IE
Skill Order: QEQW R>W>Q>E
You could definitely use Armor Seals and MR Glyphs if you wanted, but Nasus actually clears fine without Armor. I routinely ended with 4+ health potions when I got a leash. You could also abstain from the Crit entirely if you so chose, but I really like the crit for the one in six chance of nailing them with a 300-400 damage Q at level 5-7. It also feeds really nicely into IE as a last item (I crit an Olaf who built FH and Sunfire Cape for 900 damage while he was ulting and benefiting from Soraka's Armor buff).
The key to the item build is tankiness and CDR, and also CC reduction. FH + Golem + SV + Swiftness boots makes you a very tanky, difficult to kite foe, and allows you to spam wither and screw over enemy teams. This build is extremely strong given how much damage you can stack on your Q.
I take two points in Q early because the small amount of extra damage and cooldown reduction is noticeable when trying to stack its damage. From there I max W for ganking. Wither gets incredibly strong incredibly quickly, and makes for some really vicious ganks in any lane.
Jungle Nasus is really, really fun, and will definitely still work even if Riot nerfs this crit craziness.
Ask the folks I play with, I build SotAG and Swiftness boots on every tanky jungler I play. The synergy between them is so strong and on anyone without a reliable gap closer (and sometimes even on those who do have one), it's amazing at letting you get up in people's faces.
If you weren't going to go for the Crit runes, and you said that he can clear fine without Armor yellows, what would you think of something like ArPen Reds, GP5 Yellows, CDR Blues, and Gp5/MS/ArPen Quints (not sure on those yet)? Arpen obviously for Q, GP5 stuff for faster tankiness and not losing a lot on ganks, etc.
Edit: Changed blues to CDR. If you're going fast SV for magic damage, MR glyphs might not be necessary on top of SotAG and your ult.
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I'm interested in the viability of this without all the crazy crit horseshit.
Is there a point at which you sort of need to pick up a damage item, or is max cd Q enough?
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On February 06 2013 05:08 WaveofShadow wrote:
I'm interested in the viability of this without all the crazy crit horseshit.
Is there a point at which you sort of need to pick up a damage item, or is max cd Q enough?
Well, his build lists LW and IE as 5th and 6th, probably can be moved before finishing FH or SV if you don't need them as fast.
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On February 06 2013 04:56 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 16:30 Seuss wrote:
Here's the jungle setup I've really liked out of all my tests tonight:
Runes: Crit Quints/Marks/Seals, Armor Glyphs
Masteries: 21/9/0
Summoner Spells: Smite/Ghost
Build: Machete -> Spirit Stone + Boots -> Glacial + Kindle Gem -> Ancient Golem + Swiftness Boots -> Spirit Visage + Frozen Heart -> Last Whisper -> IE
Skill Order: QEQW R>W>Q>E
You could definitely use Armor Seals and MR Glyphs if you wanted, but Nasus actually clears fine without Armor. I routinely ended with 4+ health potions when I got a leash. You could also abstain from the Crit entirely if you so chose, but I really like the crit for the one in six chance of nailing them with a 300-400 damage Q at level 5-7. It also feeds really nicely into IE as a last item (I crit an Olaf who built FH and Sunfire Cape for 900 damage while he was ulting and benefiting from Soraka's Armor buff).
The key to the item build is tankiness and CDR, and also CC reduction. FH + Golem + SV + Swiftness boots makes you a very tanky, difficult to kite foe, and allows you to spam wither and screw over enemy teams. This build is extremely strong given how much damage you can stack on your Q.
I take two points in Q early because the small amount of extra damage and cooldown reduction is noticeable when trying to stack its damage. From there I max W for ganking. Wither gets incredibly strong incredibly quickly, and makes for some really vicious ganks in any lane.
Jungle Nasus is really, really fun, and will definitely still work even if Riot nerfs this crit craziness. Ask the folks I play with, I build SotAG and Swiftness boots on every tanky jungler I play. The synergy between them is so strong and on anyone without a reliable gap closer (and sometimes even on those who do have one), it's amazing at letting you get up in people's faces. If you weren't going to go for the Crit runes, and you said that he can clear fine without Armor yellows, what would you think of something like ArPen Reds, GP5 Yellows, CDR Blues, and Gp5/MS/ArPen Quints (not sure on those yet)? Arpen obviously for Q, GP5 stuff for faster tankiness and not losing a lot on ganks, etc. Edit: Changed blues to CDR. If you're going fast SV for magic damage, MR glyphs might not be necessary on top of SotAG and your ult.
Gold runes might be interesting, but realize that Nasus loses more than most junglers on ganks. A lot of your usefulness comes from stacking Q, and any time you gank you aren't stacking Q. Gp10s don't really make up for that.
If I wasn't running Crit I'd probably run Movement Speed Quints, AD Marks, Armor Seals and MR Glyphs, and start Machete + Ward + 2 Pots.
On February 06 2013 05:08 WaveofShadow wrote:
I'm interested in the viability of this without all the crazy crit horseshit.
Is there a point at which you sort of need to pick up a damage item, or is max cd Q enough?
Just grab Last Whisper as your fifth item before finishing Frozen Heart. Unless you're waaaaay behind you should be able to finish Glacial, SV, Golem and Swiftness (7000g total) before armor levels reach a point where you only tickle bruisers.
This assumes you do your job and stack Q like nobody's business.
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On February 06 2013 06:53 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 04:56 Requizen wrote:On February 05 2013 16:30 Seuss wrote:
Here's the jungle setup I've really liked out of all my tests tonight:
Runes: Crit Quints/Marks/Seals, Armor Glyphs
Masteries: 21/9/0
Summoner Spells: Smite/Ghost
Build: Machete -> Spirit Stone + Boots -> Glacial + Kindle Gem -> Ancient Golem + Swiftness Boots -> Spirit Visage + Frozen Heart -> Last Whisper -> IE
Skill Order: QEQW R>W>Q>E
You could definitely use Armor Seals and MR Glyphs if you wanted, but Nasus actually clears fine without Armor. I routinely ended with 4+ health potions when I got a leash. You could also abstain from the Crit entirely if you so chose, but I really like the crit for the one in six chance of nailing them with a 300-400 damage Q at level 5-7. It also feeds really nicely into IE as a last item (I crit an Olaf who built FH and Sunfire Cape for 900 damage while he was ulting and benefiting from Soraka's Armor buff).
The key to the item build is tankiness and CDR, and also CC reduction. FH + Golem + SV + Swiftness boots makes you a very tanky, difficult to kite foe, and allows you to spam wither and screw over enemy teams. This build is extremely strong given how much damage you can stack on your Q.
I take two points in Q early because the small amount of extra damage and cooldown reduction is noticeable when trying to stack its damage. From there I max W for ganking. Wither gets incredibly strong incredibly quickly, and makes for some really vicious ganks in any lane.
Jungle Nasus is really, really fun, and will definitely still work even if Riot nerfs this crit craziness. Ask the folks I play with, I build SotAG and Swiftness boots on every tanky jungler I play. The synergy between them is so strong and on anyone without a reliable gap closer (and sometimes even on those who do have one), it's amazing at letting you get up in people's faces. If you weren't going to go for the Crit runes, and you said that he can clear fine without Armor yellows, what would you think of something like ArPen Reds, GP5 Yellows, CDR Blues, and Gp5/MS/ArPen Quints (not sure on those yet)? Arpen obviously for Q, GP5 stuff for faster tankiness and not losing a lot on ganks, etc. Edit: Changed blues to CDR. If you're going fast SV for magic damage, MR glyphs might not be necessary on top of SotAG and your ult. Gold runes might be interesting, but realize that Nasus loses more than most junglers on ganks. A lot of your usefulness comes from stacking Q, and any time you gank you aren't stacking Q. Gp10s don't really make up for that. If I wasn't running Crit I'd probably run Movement Speed Quints, AD Marks, Armor Seals and MR Glyphs, and start Machete + Ward + 2 Pots. Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 05:08 WaveofShadow wrote:
I'm interested in the viability of this without all the crazy crit horseshit.
Is there a point at which you sort of need to pick up a damage item, or is max cd Q enough? Just grab Last Whisper as your fifth item before finishing Frozen Heart. Unless you're waaaaay behind you should be able to finish Glacial, SV, Golem and Swiftness (7000g total) before armor levels reach a point where you only tickle bruisers. This assumes you do your job and stack Q like nobody's business.
Well you mentioned that you were maxing W for ganking, so I assumed you're eventually going to gank more than a couple times, otherwise I'd expect a Q max. Or is it more "I'm going to max W in case I have to gank, but I'm not planning on it unless my laner is getting properly fucked"?
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dunno how you guys intend to efficiently farm 250~ q in 10-15 minutes if you are maxing W wtf
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On February 06 2013 07:04 Slayer91 wrote:
dunno how you guys intend to efficiently farm 250~ q in 10-15 minutes if you are maxing W wtf
I'd really like to see this in action...I wish I had time to test this myself. Is there a VoD, Monte?
Also Nasus buffed again on PBE: Q is 20 flat mana at all levels.
Discuss.
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On February 06 2013 07:09 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 07:04 Slayer91 wrote:
dunno how you guys intend to efficiently farm 250~ q in 10-15 minutes if you are maxing W wtf I'd really like to see this in action...I wish I had time to test this myself. Is there a VoD, Monte? Also Nasus buffed again on PBE: Q is 20 flat mana at all levels. Discuss.
Fucking crazy... smh
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I farmed 240ish in 11 minutes in a test game
i did run the 20% cdr at level 1 build but I used it in ranked and didn't feel like there was any reason not to
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On February 06 2013 07:09 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 07:04 Slayer91 wrote:
dunno how you guys intend to efficiently farm 250~ q in 10-15 minutes if you are maxing W wtf I'd really like to see this in action...I wish I had time to test this myself. Is there a VoD, Monte? Also Nasus buffed again on PBE: Q is 20 flat mana at all levels. Discuss.
wtf, dat q buff
gg noobs
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On February 06 2013 07:00 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 06:53 Seuss wrote:On February 06 2013 04:56 Requizen wrote:On February 05 2013 16:30 Seuss wrote:
Here's the jungle setup I've really liked out of all my tests tonight:
Runes: Crit Quints/Marks/Seals, Armor Glyphs
Masteries: 21/9/0
Summoner Spells: Smite/Ghost
Build: Machete -> Spirit Stone + Boots -> Glacial + Kindle Gem -> Ancient Golem + Swiftness Boots -> Spirit Visage + Frozen Heart -> Last Whisper -> IE
Skill Order: QEQW R>W>Q>E
You could definitely use Armor Seals and MR Glyphs if you wanted, but Nasus actually clears fine without Armor. I routinely ended with 4+ health potions when I got a leash. You could also abstain from the Crit entirely if you so chose, but I really like the crit for the one in six chance of nailing them with a 300-400 damage Q at level 5-7. It also feeds really nicely into IE as a last item (I crit an Olaf who built FH and Sunfire Cape for 900 damage while he was ulting and benefiting from Soraka's Armor buff).
The key to the item build is tankiness and CDR, and also CC reduction. FH + Golem + SV + Swiftness boots makes you a very tanky, difficult to kite foe, and allows you to spam wither and screw over enemy teams. This build is extremely strong given how much damage you can stack on your Q.
I take two points in Q early because the small amount of extra damage and cooldown reduction is noticeable when trying to stack its damage. From there I max W for ganking. Wither gets incredibly strong incredibly quickly, and makes for some really vicious ganks in any lane.
Jungle Nasus is really, really fun, and will definitely still work even if Riot nerfs this crit craziness. Ask the folks I play with, I build SotAG and Swiftness boots on every tanky jungler I play. The synergy between them is so strong and on anyone without a reliable gap closer (and sometimes even on those who do have one), it's amazing at letting you get up in people's faces. If you weren't going to go for the Crit runes, and you said that he can clear fine without Armor yellows, what would you think of something like ArPen Reds, GP5 Yellows, CDR Blues, and Gp5/MS/ArPen Quints (not sure on those yet)? Arpen obviously for Q, GP5 stuff for faster tankiness and not losing a lot on ganks, etc. Edit: Changed blues to CDR. If you're going fast SV for magic damage, MR glyphs might not be necessary on top of SotAG and your ult. Gold runes might be interesting, but realize that Nasus loses more than most junglers on ganks. A lot of your usefulness comes from stacking Q, and any time you gank you aren't stacking Q. Gp10s don't really make up for that. If I wasn't running Crit I'd probably run Movement Speed Quints, AD Marks, Armor Seals and MR Glyphs, and start Machete + Ward + 2 Pots. On February 06 2013 05:08 WaveofShadow wrote:
I'm interested in the viability of this without all the crazy crit horseshit.
Is there a point at which you sort of need to pick up a damage item, or is max cd Q enough? Just grab Last Whisper as your fifth item before finishing Frozen Heart. Unless you're waaaaay behind you should be able to finish Glacial, SV, Golem and Swiftness (7000g total) before armor levels reach a point where you only tickle bruisers. This assumes you do your job and stack Q like nobody's business. Well you mentioned that you were maxing W for ganking, so I assumed you're eventually going to gank more than a couple times, otherwise I'd expect a Q max. Or is it more "I'm going to max W in case I have to gank, but I'm not planning on it unless my laner is getting properly fucked"?
I did gank more than a couple times, but up until my final game I wasn't nearly as picky as I should have been. Even if I wasn't going to gank the most I'd do would be to split ranks between W and Q at the very least. W is far too good a teamfighting tool to ignore.
On February 06 2013 07:04 Slayer91 wrote:
dunno how you guys intend to efficiently farm 250~ q in 10-15 minutes if you are maxing W wtf
The cooldown on Q is such that you can farm 27-30 damage per clear even with rank 1 (I usually get two ranks early for convenience). You might not get 250 by 11 minutes (I'd have to test) but by 15 minutes would be simple.
On February 06 2013 07:09 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 07:04 Slayer91 wrote:
dunno how you guys intend to efficiently farm 250~ q in 10-15 minutes if you are maxing W wtf I'd really like to see this in action...I wish I had time to test this myself. Is there a VoD, Monte? Also Nasus buffed again on PBE: Q is 20 flat mana at all levels. Discuss.
No VoD, alas. I was not streaming.
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On February 06 2013 07:09 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 07:04 Slayer91 wrote:
dunno how you guys intend to efficiently farm 250~ q in 10-15 minutes if you are maxing W wtf I'd really like to see this in action...I wish I had time to test this myself. Is there a VoD, Monte? Also Nasus buffed again on PBE: Q is 20 flat mana at all levels. Discuss.
20 at all levels??? I'll eat my hat if it goes through
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You can ALWAYS get 27-30 damage per clear even if you have a 20 second cooldown on Q what you're sacrificng is shitloads of speed which hurts your damage xp and gold in terms of camp respawns and leaves you much less free time to do any ganking
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If the Q buff goes through I'm wondering if you could try and play a superfarm Nasus where you just Q every jungle creep possible and pretend to gank (if you max Q you probably won't be so effective) so that you can tax the lane a little for more Q stacks....
Hell this will probably make top Nasus better since Q max kills your mana at early levels; at this rate you wouldn't have to back for Philo/Spirit Stone forever. I do agree with Monte on this possibly making jungle Nasus > Top lane.
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On February 06 2013 08:37 Slayer91 wrote:
You can ALWAYS get 27-30 damage per clear even if you have a 20 second cooldown on Q what you're sacrificng is shitloads of speed which hurts your damage xp and gold in terms of camp respawns and leaves you much less free time to do any ganking
Q's cooldown is not so high that rank 2 is insufficient to clear camps as quickly as they spawn, especially as you continue to stack the damage. It helps that I'm going full offense while your CDR setup goes deep into utility (at least I'm assuming that's how you're reaching 20% CDR).
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I don't think that 3 extra damage and 4% extra attack speed even makes up for the CDR dps boost let alone when the extra damage from it kicks in
And you can play full farm nasus now but the problem is against very active junglesr like xin you'll feel like you're losing games before you can do anything if you do it
Since I'm going utility I can start 4 pots+1 ward and ward top early that helps but it doesn't compare to being able to gank with instant gap closers like amumu q maokai w lee sin q and xin e. Best bet is to buy a few wards so you can counter gank at least.
I tried the boots 3 thing with spirit of the ancient golem and it feels good. I don't miss the CDR that much since I'm already at 30% with just kindle and the speed helps move around the map faster.
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To be fair, most of your CDR advantage comes from your runes. The 6% CDR you get from utility isn't going increase your clear speed more than the 17 points in Offense I have that you don't. You said yourself that clear speed isn't really CDR limited at the start.
Wards are something I'm planning on picking up instead of potions. There's little point in ending the first clear with full health and 4 potions when you can just ward.
And yeah, Swiftness Boots are soooooo good. Ignore all slows, collect pentakills.
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You can't just say 17 points in offensive assume that's a significant clear advantage
You get 3 more AD, +2 on minions so 5 AD, 4% attack speed, and a bit more damage on low targets that doesn't matter an awful lot unless you get REALLY precise with your Q last hitting.
Stuff in utility, more mana regen and max mana, longer buffs, 6% cdr, more gold at level 1 to buy a ward, 2 gp10, these things are harder to notice but they're worth more overall, if you do the gold calculations. As far as I can see thats because they are "scaling" advantages which means in the laning phase offensive and defensive trees are better but since you are jungling it seems reasonable to go utility, at least on the guys who arent super agressive level 3 gankers who want to squeeze every bit of damage out early. The 5 armpen comes into account more when you are attacking targets that aren't being put at negative armour by your E.
The 20% buff duration itself is hard to value, but if you get 2 more Q's out because of that blue buff thats 6 damage on Q already outperforming what your AD/level and flat AD is giving you on your Q. You get marginally better auto attack DPS of course but I don't see anyone running offensive tree on maokai or amumu for that reason. Nasus autos a bit more than those guys but I don't think it's enough to warrant 21 offensive. I actually thought everyone was running defense to stack CC reduction with the boots 3 or something.
A lot of clear speed gets Q limited very fast because of your E. When you have 40% CDR at level 2 you can cast E twice and guaranteed kill any small creep and seriously hurt the big guys meaning you're racing against your Q cd really early and that's assuming you're putting only 1 point, maybe 2 later in it (not before level 5 because you 1 shot small wraiths though).
Might as well put more points in Q since it increases your damage, reduces the cooldown, and you don't want more points in E anyway. What's the point of putting more in W? You already are a average ganker and want to spend the first 10-20 minutes farming and only appearing when needed because the whole point of jungle nasus is farming Q uninterrupted and by maxing W you're slowing your jungle clearing and decreasing your Q farm to make your ganks (which are already weaker than the top gankers who also clear faster) a bit better.
EDIT: actually you can probably play a completely different way and just go for the Q-every-big-creep strat, max the fuck out of E an 1 shot every camp and Q the big guy and GTFO. Wouldn't need any cdr at all it's just bonus. Just get movement quints so you can roam around more and go 0/9/21 and play a bit like S1-S2 udyr.
Maybe E damage doesn't scale fast enough compared to the big creeps in which case you might want to run some AP or CDR to get a 2nd E/nuke harder.
I need to try this.
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EPT
