EPTTry to farm as much as I can from different places.
[Champion] Caitlyn - Page 3
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Therealdevil
Netherlands1021 Posts
Try to farm as much as I can from different places. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
Soraka, Taric, Sona, Janna, Alistar all deal plenty of magic damage. MF, Corki, Kog, Trist deal magic damage. When the enemy AP mid comes to gank bot you're not going to be lvl 10 yet. You probably won't be lvl 10 for the first Dragon fight either. If you're in a duo lane, you level up really slowly so that alone is a good reason to choose flat MR. On September 01 2011 23:33 NeoIllusions wrote: A lot of EU AD players, CandyPandah included, tend to ignore the utility tree altogether. I see a lot more 21 9 0 or even 24 6 0. If you play like Candy where you forever bot lane, even after the first outer tower is gone, then those Awareness masteries don't really matter as much. I've been running 21/9/0 for ages now. There's no way I'd skip SoS for puny things like 3% ASpd though. | ||
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Haemonculus
United States6980 Posts
In some matchups your opponent hitting 6 before you can be a major problem. | ||
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Brees
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On September 01 2011 23:51 Haemonculus wrote: I always thought the reason to take 9 in utility was for the exp mastery? In some matchups your opponent hitting 6 before you can be a major problem. Doesn't really matter for bot lane. 99% of the time someone will leave the lane for a while before lvl 6 and that means that your exp advantage is either gone or useless. lvl 2 for certain (rare) lanes (both sides have strong lvl 2) would be the only thing I would consider the exp mastery for. | ||
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Surrealz
United States449 Posts
On September 01 2011 20:47 mercurial wrote: Wrote it in the quote because it was easier to write like this I'll add all the stuff to the OP in a bit. Wrote it in the quote because you are a pretentious forum poster; Anyways unless you are getting 100% of the CS in your lane the AD quints will continue to be the BiS for cait, as Chaox, Chauster, and Westrice have all said. Yes, you can still get a good CS score without the quints, but if you really want to min max your champ correctly then AD runes are going to be your bread and butter on AD ranged carries (ESPECIALLY cause of the support/ad bot meta) | ||
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broz0rs
United States2294 Posts
On September 02 2011 09:04 Surrealz wrote:Wrote it in the quote because you are a pretentious forum poster; Anyways unless you are getting 100% of the CS in your lane the AD quints will continue to be the BiS for cait, as Chaox, Chauster, and Westrice have all said. Yes, you can still get a good CS score without the quints, but if you really want to min max your champ correctly then AD runes are going to be your bread and butter on AD ranged carries (ESPECIALLY cause of the support/ad bot meta) I think you name drop too much. ArPen runes/quints are perfectly fine based on the math that posters here have done. | ||
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Surrealz
United States449 Posts
On September 02 2011 09:21 broz0rs wrote: I think you name drop too much. ArPen runes/quints are perfectly fine based on the math that posters here have done. The "math" that they did failed to include that players start with different amounts of armor, last whisper calculation, and the FACT that the damage quints aren't for damage against enemies, its for the extra dmg vs creeps, who will be your main enemy in the early game. Stop saying things that aren't true, you are giving people shit builds on this forum and they are running around with them and playing sub-optimally because they don't understand ArP scaling vs AD scaling | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
On September 02 2011 10:12 Surrealz wrote: The "math" that they did failed to include that players start with different amounts of armor, last whisper calculation, and the FACT that the damage quints aren't for damage against enemies, its for the extra dmg vs creeps, who will be your main enemy in the early game. Stop saying things that aren't true, you are giving people shit builds on this forum and they are running around with them and playing sub-optimally because they don't understand ArP scaling vs AD scaling If you actually think you take AD runes for extra damage vs creeps then using your logic, you must run AD marks/quints on every single champ. Cause you know, more AD to last hit easier and all. AD on casters too strong~ Stop being a Jazriel. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
On September 01 2011 23:36 spinesheath wrote: Flat MR on ranged AD is great, what are you talking about? Soraka, Taric, Sona, Janna, Alistar all deal plenty of magic damage. MF, Corki, Kog, Trist deal magic damage. When the enemy AP mid comes to gank bot you're not going to be lvl 10 yet. You probably won't be lvl 10 for the first Dragon fight either. If you're in a duo lane, you level up really slowly so that alone is a good reason to choose flat MR. I've been running 21/9/0 for ages now. There's no way I'd skip SoS for puny things like 3% ASpd though. same, though sometimes I do chauster's 16/0/14 for extra safe laning. | ||
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courtpanda
866 Posts
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Craton
United States17281 Posts
On September 02 2011 11:17 BlackPaladin wrote: If you actually think you take AD runes for extra damage vs creeps then using your logic, you must run AD marks/quints on every single champ. Cause you know, more AD to last hit easier and all. AD on casters too strong~ Stop being a Jazriel. I don't get why people say things like you just did, which are obviously devoid of sound logic, as if it somehow refutes what he said. | ||
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Surrealz
United States449 Posts
On September 02 2011 11:17 BlackPaladin wrote: If you actually think you take AD runes for extra damage vs creeps then using your logic, you must run AD marks/quints on every single champ. Cause you know, more AD to last hit easier and all. AD on casters too strong~ Stop being a Jazriel. No, because other champions (IE- AP champs) don't use their auto attack for every single creep kill. Also, the +7 dmg for say brand is only 49+7, where as for cait its 75+7 (with 21/0/9), which is far more useful to her. Cait is a straight auto attack champ, with only ashe and twitch being remotely close to her right click spam. Any attack damage early game will significantly improve your chance of last hitting a minion. Also, remember that the turret kill pattern for a ranged minion pre100 dmg is going to be Hit - Turret - Hit, which is VERY hard to time vs Turret - Hit. The extra few damage WILL increase your CS. Yes, the stat scales linearly, but it has exponential gains. All of her abilities scale off of AD, and last whisper later will take 40% of your original 25arp in your build which will be 4arp, so you are actually cutting yourself off after buying last whisper (which is a must have item in about 90% of games as an AD carry). AD marks are meh, as the 15 arp IS useful because most champions have around 15+ armor at the start of the game, and ARP really is an amazing stat because of the "true" damage. Remember that runes become less and less significant to your total build as the game goes on, so you are best suited to tailor your rune set for an early game advantage. (Some runes aren't the case like this, for example some Euro corki players take AP/Level glyphs {blues} which are mega inefficient early game [they don't equal the flat ones til level 9/10] because they have minimal use until you get your rockets [R], so it makes sense to maximize the timing window for your rockets/AP gains). Dodge yellows are a joke, if you are getting hit by auto attacks you are probably already going to die from all of the damage going your way. If you have 7% dodge at level 1 you sure as hell aren't going to be building tabi, as zerker greaves/merc treads are your only boot choice. That means in order to dodge 1 attack it is expected to have been hit 14-15 times....That is horrible for you, as cait isnt about taking sustained auto attack damage (someone like singed or malphite would want this). Even with passive dodge its still a crap shoot, and the dodge just makes you feel more tanky than you actually are. I'd almost even say that armor is a better choice than dodge. Again, we want that mana regen early to be able to Q/W, tanking countless auto attacks should NOT be in your gameplan with cait. edit: As far as what you said about red, you are almost always going to have another AD on your team, and remember that there is TWO reds on the map, not one  That being said, I get red constantly on caitlyn because you can stand in the bushes and significantly increase your DPS against it due to her passive. She has very little CC, and your jungler should have phage/frozen mallet. The damage increase isn't as effective for the jungler, as they are usually just a melee body in a fight (most junglers, I ain't hatin GP [even though GP has a slow]) and won't be doing the kind of sustained, split dps that the AD ranged carry will be doing. Being kited sucks, so having a ranged AD carry that can slow is just amazing (HENCE WHY ASHE ES #1 HUEHUEHEUEHU)I play alot of caitlyn, and I am rather certain that I have her optimal build down. I don't want my fellow TL'ers doing a suboptimal build for her, even if it is playable and winnable. Remember, every little bit counts. | ||
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
You don't take them to cs easier, you take it to do more damage to the enemy champions so that you can then, and only then, acquire an advantage to be able to cs better in lane. That's because if you can give yourself favorable trades constantly, you can use that advantage to take control of the brushes and zone them, eventually pushing the wave to the tower once it autopushes from them not being able to last hit. Then the tower eats up a lot of their cs. You get more cs, they get less. It's not to be able to allow you to cs easier by giving you more AD to buffer your bad last hitting abilities. | ||
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Surrealz
United States449 Posts
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Therealdevil
Netherlands1021 Posts
On September 02 2011 14:31 alexlw92 wrote: why black cleaver over last whisper? by that point, most tanks have over 112 armor Personal preference? I just feel stronger with cleaver then last whisper, when people amass armor however, I'll get last whisper. So first Surrealz drops names on us then he says he plays a fair bit of Caitlyn. So what are your credentials? :3 The logic on near tower with ad runes being awsome is good though, but my support actually helps me when it comes to that. Cait's an amazing pusher though and can easily stop waves from coming to her tower. It why we use her in a split push team, because she can takes waves down easily. | ||
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Surrealz
United States449 Posts
On September 02 2011 16:08 BlackPaladin wrote: Because top players who can last hit with nearly any champ well would not take AD runes "to last hit easier." They're going to take them in order to increase their damage potential earlygame vs the enmy champions. APen might not be best because not all champs have the armor value equal to the APen that you have, so often it's wasted. Thus you can instead take AD and do more overall damage to the enemy champ earlygame and use that damage advantage on the enemy champ to give you favorable trades. By doing so THEN you can get get a cs advantage. You don't take them to cs easier, you take it to do more damage to the enemy champions so that you can then, and only then, acquire an advantage to be able to cs better in lane. That's because if you can give yourself favorable trades constantly, you can use that advantage to take control of the brushes and zone them, eventually pushing the wave to the tower once it autopushes from them not being able to last hit. Then the tower eats up a lot of their cs. You get more cs, they get less. It's not to be able to allow you to cs easier by giving you more AD to buffer your bad last hitting abilities. Based on what you read I'm not really sure if we are playing at the same level in LoL. Your gameplan of trading and pushing the lane constantly during the laning phase is NOT what the top players are doing, so people please take what he wrote here with a grain of salt. Without going into too much detail, you want the lane to sit in a favorable position towards your side/the middle without actually letting them get into turret range. The reason for this is the possibility of ganks. When you have their lane pushed yea they are up against the turret (Oh and by the way, most pro players can still hit 90% of creep that are pushing against their own turret, and while they are doing it they have VERY VERY VERY little risk of being ganked, cause they have their turret..). If you watch some pro player VODs/Streams/etc. you will notice that they try to match the other player in pushing power as to leave the lane in a favorable position for themselves. If they constantly pushed their lanes there is very little stopping the enemy udyr from coming down and punishing you as you run back to your turret all the way from theirs with your tail between your legs. Once the lane phase is maturing and you have wards and stuff then yes, that is a time to push. If you are about to go back to fountain, then yes, push. Watch even the best of players play. You will see that sometimes they miss their CS by 1-5 damage and they will be like AWWWW SHIT on their stream. People make mistakes. AD quints can make up for those mistakes and give you that extra umph. Even 5 extra CS is 75-100 free gold, which turns into either an item or a ward, which have infinite possibilities for snowball gains because of their gameplay consequences. If you want to attest to what I just wrote, please go to www.solomid.net or watch | ||
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broz0rs
United States2294 Posts
On September 02 2011 16:24 Surrealz wrote:Watch even the best of players play. You will see that sometimes they miss their CS by 1-5 damage and they will be like AWWWW SHIT on their stream. People make mistakes. AD quints can make up for those mistakes and give you that extra umph. Even 5 extra CS is 75-100 free gold, which turns into either an item or a ward, which have infinite possibilities for snowball gains because of their gameplay consequences. I think this is the first "high level" player that I know of that needs AD quint/runes to last hit. But whatever float your boat dude, may the spirit of Chauster, Chaox, or whichever high elo player you like guide you. I play alot of caitlyn, and I am rather certain that I have her optimal build down. I don't want my fellow TL'ers doing a suboptimal build for her, even if it is playable and winnable. Remember, every little bit counts. LMFAO... oh really? User was warned for this post | ||
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