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This guide is wrong in almost every way possible (chauster and chaox have detailed guides out)...
Quints: Physical Damage - These are BiS, simply nothing in this game will give you a bigger overall DPS/CS killing ability boost in the early game than pure dmg quints. The extra 7.5 dmg is VERY noticeable. Try these quints and then report back to me that you had 10+ more CS than usual and you got your snowball items faster...
Reds: Armor Pen - BiS as well, not gonna explain
Yellow: Mana regen per 5 per level, as cait is going to take 21/0/9 and has quite high mana costs/spamability on her shit, so make sure you get these
Blues: Flat magic resist. Per levels dont catch up til lvl 10 and you already getting banshees later as part of your build so the early MR is going to help TONS against pokes and such. Any AP caster is going to try and blow his/her load on you and being prepared is going to be important.
Masteries: 21/0/9 cookie cutter, except the OP said to get greed for some reason over mana regen...neither are superior to the +time to neutral buffs, as you will be getting red ALOT cause of cait's lack of CC. Red is amazing on cait, and don't forget to snag it at all times
Level up W at level 1 then max R > Q > W > E (W>E because of the steep CD on W)
Throw traps in tight areas and corridors, you will be surprised how many melee love running over them.
Build: Start with boots + 3 pots or Dorans blade depending on enemy poke/zone potential. (IE- orianna is boots, where as you want blade vs anivia). Build 2x dorans blades and/or BF sword as early as possible (remember to still get your greaves or merc treads early, cait is really strong if you can get a speed advantage early game cause of her kiting). Rush Bloodthirster and then build a zeal. At this point you can either finish phantom dancer or start building banshees veil. Any time in between finish your PD (the speed/crit/as is awesome for cait).. Rest of the items are situational, but mostly I find myself with BT, PD, IE, LW, Boots, and BV at the end of the game.
Dont spam Q vs minions and push your lane or you will open up for ganks. Use her ult to wittle people down if you know you cant get a kill/gank soon enough to warrant not using it for the poke. Sometimes a level 6 ashe will have 1/3 of their hp taken by just the ult alone so definitely don't overestimate the Q/Ult combo as a poke/zone tool.
In lane use traps to zone. I make a triangle shape with them as to maximize the area. The new stealth buff to her trap radius is helping tons too, you can wall off like crazy now with just traps.
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Physical attack quints are better than armor pen early game because you won't really be auto attacking the enemy champions as much as you will be attacking minions. Also, alot of champions start with less than 18 armor (ashe has 13 at lvl 1), so the full 25 arp is just a complete waste. Arp reds and physdmg quints are the way to go for cait. HP is meh.
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9 armor penetration red's
9 dodge runes yellow's
9 cooldown reduction blue's
3 armor penetration quintessences
Totally Agree with you for reds, duh.
Totally disagree with you for yellow. Range AD carries pretty much either armor or atkspeed or mana regen/level mix them up if you want.
Your choice in blues really really questionable. Stick to MR/ per level.
Quints is up to the person, I usually run Atkdamage x3 , can go for more armpen or even hp quint
I always start with a Doran's blade, I saw someone mention boots 3 pots in the general thread. This is very doable if you have Soraka or Janna in your lane for damage/heals, but Doran's makes it easier to last hit creeps which is quite important for an AD carry.
It's good to start with doran's blade, but you meant to go doran's IF you have a healer as a partner on bot lane, but if you don't have a support partner go boots and 3 pots. Being able to sustain in lane longer = Win as AD carry.
All the other items are great great choice for caitlyn with the Inf edge + phantom dancer, Zerkers.
I would tho at the point of completing 1st phantom dancer, you need to make a choice, can you survive or are you constantly getting cc'd and so on. If so , go build a Quicksilver sash, most underrated item and/or Banshee's Veil. If you are not getting cc'd and targeted due to the fact you are a nerd baller at positioning yourself, go for another phantom dancer then bloodthirster would be nice, should be gg by then.
You'll spend most of your time (trying to harass) harassing your opponent, depending on what support player he has for assistance your gonna want to target him or his support player.
Being a Carry you must train yourself to farm and farm and farm. I would spend more time placing traps in a triangle shape infront of you, and start last hitting everything like a mad man then waste my time trying to harass your opponent at the cost of losing last hits .
Getting a kill or forcing him to return to base is nice, but nothing is nicer knowing when you press TAB, and it's telling you, YOUR CS is owning them. If you do wanna be a bit more aggressive sure, go ahead, it's all situational. But if you do choose to harass try to save your passive proc's for the enemy champion, or Q when they get snared in your trap. Priority = Farming = Win!
All in all, Great guide for everyone wanting to play Cait. Most important thing about range carry is being able to position yourself properly in a team fight, something that sounds easy, but takes alot of practice to master. Most of the time any person can just over extend by just a smudge and boom, your team just lost their Main sustain DPS. Great insight from this guide, especially that it's from European Meta game. Thanks.
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On September 01 2011 17:07 Surrealz wrote:
This guide is wrong in almost every way possible (chauster and chaox have detailed guides out)...
Quints: Physical Damage - These are BiS, simply nothing in this game will give you a bigger overall DPS/CS killing ability boost in the early game than pure dmg quints. The extra 7.5 dmg is VERY noticeable. Try these quints and then report back to me that you had 10+ more CS than usual and you got your snowball items faster...
So you're lack of being able to lasthit properly is your reasoning behind getting the AD quints? You should mention that the Q and R gain damage from it and not from the Armor penetration runes which is why they're superior on Cait. If you're having trouble taking CS with cait's 60 dmg and armor penetration runes. If you're having problems taking cs you should probably play anivia or something for a while.
I do agree that its a very valid option, but its not set in stone.
Reds: Armor Pen - BiS as well, not gonna explain
Yellow: Mana regen per 5 per level, as cait is going to take 21/0/9 and has quite high mana costs/spamability on her shit, so make sure you get these
True, she uses alot of mana, these are 1 of my 2 choices for Caitlyn, I don't spam Q that often though and never really have mana issues. I'll add them to the guide.
Blues: Flat magic resist. Per levels dont catch up til lvl 10 and you already getting banshees later as part of your build so the early MR is going to help TONS against pokes and such. Any AP caster is going to try and blow his/her load on you and being prepared is going to be important.
Agreed.
Masteries: 21/0/9 cookie cutter, except the OP said to get greed for some reason over mana regen...neither are superior to the +time to neutral buffs, as you will be getting red ALOT cause of cait's lack of CC. Red is amazing on cait, and don't forget to snag it at all times
Depends on your jungler, taking udyr/gangplank's red buff is out of the question, she's not THAT awsome with red's
Level up W at level 1 then max R > Q > W > E (W>E because of the steep CD on W)
Yop
Throw traps in tight areas and corridors, you will be surprised how many melee love running over them.
Uhu
Build: Start with boots + 3 pots or Dorans blade depending on enemy poke/zone potential. (IE- orianna is boots, where as you want blade vs anivia). Build 2x dorans blades and/or BF sword as early as possible (remember to still get your greaves or merc treads early, cait is really strong if you can get a speed advantage early game cause of her kiting). Rush Bloodthirster and then build a zeal. At this point you can either finish phantom dancer or start building banshees veil. Any time in between finish your PD (the speed/crit/as is awesome for cait).. Rest of the items are situational, but mostly I find myself with BT, PD, IE, LW, Boots, and BV at the end of the game.
Dont spam Q vs minions and push your lane or you will open up for ganks. Use her ult to wittle people down if you know you cant get a kill/gank soon enough to warrant not using it for the poke. Sometimes a level 6 ashe will have 1/3 of their hp taken by just the ult alone so definitely don't overestimate the Q/Ult combo as a poke/zone tool.
In lane use traps to zone. I make a triangle shape with them as to maximize the area. The new stealth buff to her trap radius is helping tons too, you can wall off like crazy now with just traps.
Stealth buff?
Wrote it in the quote because it was easier to write like this
I'll add all the stuff to the OP in a bit.
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On September 01 2011 20:47 mercurial wrote:
So you're lack of being able to lasthit properly is your reasoning behind getting the AD quints? You should mention that the Q and R gain damage from it and not from the Armor penetration runes
Are you saying that Cait's Q and R don't scale with APen?
Cuz they do, ya know?
Probably way better than with AD too because of the high base damage on those skills, but I haven't checked that.
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So the only reason for it is its easier to lasthit?
Well then
If you get boots > go flat AD
If you go Doran's blade > go arpen
._.
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On September 01 2011 17:10 Surrealz wrote:
Physical attack quints are better than armor pen early game because you won't really be auto attacking the enemy champions as much as you will be attacking minions. Also, alot of champions start with less than 18 armor (ashe has 13 at lvl 1), so the full 25 arp is just a complete waste. Arp reds and physdmg quints are the way to go for cait. HP is meh.
If someone has negative armor you deal more then 100% dmg to him.
Try it on golems or something sometime.
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On September 01 2011 21:27 mercurial wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 17:10 Surrealz wrote:
Physical attack quints are better than armor pen early game because you won't really be auto attacking the enemy champions as much as you will be attacking minions. Also, alot of champions start with less than 18 armor (ashe has 13 at lvl 1), so the full 25 arp is just a complete waste. Arp reds and physdmg quints are the way to go for cait. HP is meh. If someone has negative armor you deal more then 100% dmg to him. Try it on golems or something sometime.
REALLY? Dude I would have expected more solid knowledge about game mechanics from you lawl.
APen can't bring anyone down to negative armor. Only flat REDUCTION can. APen is capped at 0 Armor.
The reason many people get flat AD quintsis because they deal slightly more damage during the first few levels when they would otherwise have more APen than the enemy has Armor.
That's what most people claim to do it for, anyways. In reality the better lasthitting probably has a MUCH bigger impact. The bigger your timing window for lasthitting is (a function of your AD), the harder it is for the enemy to punish or deny any lasthits.
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To be honest I definitely feel the extra punching power on enemy heroes, ESPECIALLY when you're Cait with her procced shot. I understand the last hit window being easier (it certainly made things easier for me, dohoho!) being a major factor, but at top levels of play, where I think it's safe to assume that most people could last hit with just DBlade + ARP anyways, it's that extra hitting power that really makes the difference.
IMO anyways.
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I don't run anything but flat AD on my carries and I don't think you should either. I think of it as a pretty significant buff in damage early traded off for a pretty insignificant debuff later. Lane dominance is a huge thing in the duo lanes and hitting just that much harder often gives you the edge you need.
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On September 01 2011 21:44 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 21:27 mercurial wrote:On September 01 2011 17:10 Surrealz wrote:
Physical attack quints are better than armor pen early game because you won't really be auto attacking the enemy champions as much as you will be attacking minions. Also, alot of champions start with less than 18 armor (ashe has 13 at lvl 1), so the full 25 arp is just a complete waste. Arp reds and physdmg quints are the way to go for cait. HP is meh. If someone has negative armor you deal more then 100% dmg to him. Try it on golems or something sometime. REALLY? Dude I would have expected more solid knowledge about game mechanics from you lawl. APen can't bring anyone down to negative armor. Only flat REDUCTION can. APen is capped at 0 Armor. The reason many people get flat AD quintsis because they deal slightly more damage during the first few levels when they would otherwise have more APen than the enemy has Armor. That's what most people claim to do it for, anyways. In reality the better lasthitting probably has a MUCH bigger impact. The bigger your timing window for lasthitting is (a function of your AD), the harder it is for the enemy to punish or deny any lasthits.
Dude I figured out a couple of days ago that baron gives 300 gold.
My mind was blown.
Thought he was like dragon but with a buff.
My knowledge is crap. Imagine how little theorycrafting helps in the game ^^
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On September 01 2011 22:19 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
I don't run anything but flat AD on my carries and I don't think you should either. I think of it as a pretty significant buff in damage early traded off for a pretty insignificant debuff later. Lane dominance is a huge thing in the duo lanes and hitting just that much harder often gives you the edge you need.
No armor pen at all? Hmmm I was trying that for a bit but I couldn't decide which I liked more.
+15 or so damage vs what like... 18-24 armor pen? Hard to say which is better o.o;
Perhaps just get an earlier-than-usual last whisper to make up for it?
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You don't feel the lack of armor pen against squishies and the very little arp doesn't help against tanks, I think.
Though to be honest a guy whose account I've slowly been boosting has a full damage page as well but I don't really notice which is more efficient (full damage vs standard ad + arp).
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Lets just say that there is barely a difference and that skill makes up for more then the 2/3 damage you might gain or lose by doing or not doing what has been said above.
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On September 01 2011 22:07 Southlight wrote:
To be honest I definitely feel the extra punching power on enemy heroes, ESPECIALLY when you're Cait with her procced shot. I understand the last hit window being easier (it certainly made things easier for me, dohoho!) being a major factor, but at top levels of play, where I think it's safe to assume that most people could last hit with just DBlade + ARP anyways, it's that extra hitting power that really makes the difference.
IMO anyways.
At top levels of play, people are also better at punishing any lasthitting attempts.
On September 01 2011 22:19 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
I don't run anything but flat AD on my carries and I don't think you should either. I think of it as a pretty significant buff in damage early traded off for a pretty insignificant debuff later. Lane dominance is a huge thing in the duo lanes and hitting just that much harder often gives you the edge you need.
My calculations show that flat AD marks are only slightly better at lvl 1 (less than 1% difference), and after that until the target gets like 100 armor APen marks are better. And that is only for targets that start with less than 21 armor (15 APen from marks, 6 from masteries).
So I don't see where you get that idea of a significant buff from...
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Snap.
Arpen is better. (I don't like "apen" because it means monkeys in my language.)
Changing my guide back :3
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United States47024 Posts
On September 01 2011 23:14 mercurial wrote:
Snap.
Arpen is better. (I don't like "apen" because it means monkeys in my language.)
Changing my guide back :3
Apen is definitively better on reds. It's still a tossup on quints, because the cost-effectiveness of apen on quints is noticeably better on quints than on reds.
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-Personally I love running AD yellows on stuff like Cait, MF or Vayne if I can assume that we'll have the stronger lane at bot. Adds more punch and you strengthen your ability to punish them early game. A Cait/MF that's not ahead early will fall behind eventually.
-Flat MRes blues on AD carries is complete and utter crap. =P
The ONLY reason to run flat Mres (period) is that you expect to get shat on bettween level 1-8ish by... MAGIC DAMAGE. Unless you're against Taric/Brand this will never be the case. I GUESS against like Taric/Tristana it would somewhat make sense again, but it's not like that combo is huge trouble for cait.
----> Scaling MRes >>>> Flat Mres for AD carries. 100% the same reasoning as for junglers.
Edit: That is IF you want to run Mres. Imho the only viable options for blue are Scaling Mres / AS / Mp5 per level. CDR makes no sense at all since you don't have the manapool to abuse it.
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I don't like 21/0/9 that much anymore. You're basicly using 8 points in utility which you don't benefit much from (maybe good hands since it's a game changer but that's about it). The only reason i see in going 9 in utility is to get that 15% extra duration on red buff, but meh i don't feel that much need for it. Currently im experimenting with 24/6/0 to get some extra fancy stuff in the offensive tree and the 6 points in defense is quite obvious.
AD quints, arpen marks, mp5/lvl seals, AS glyphs. Flash/exhaust
At the moment it actually works really good. I don't feel like im losing much for not getting awareness since your focus is towards late game where you're needed to push.
Any thoughts?
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United States37500 Posts
A lot of EU AD players, CandyPandah included, tend to ignore the utility tree altogether. I see a lot more 21 9 0 or even 24 6 0. If you play like Candy where you forever bot lane, even after the first outer tower is gone, then those Awareness masteries don't really matter as much.
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EPT
