On September 25 2013 18:15 M2 wrote: Just wanted to add to the discussion that I think Heal is a better summoner for Zillean than Exhaust, most of the times at least. It gives you the sustain you miss so much, while your E with enough CDR compensates for the lack of Exhaust.
edit. Forgot to add a notable person to the list of champions that you should not pick Zillean support against, the big Bane with a capital B - Caitlin. Against Soraka, Sona, Nami and to some extend Janna, Zillean is just not as useful, but vs Cait OMG you gonna shred girly tears because of her higher than your harrass autoattack range :-)
If u are against a big aoe team comp take heal preferably If u are against some agressive bruiser/fighter (zed/trynd/jax, etc.. ) who will pressure your adc take exhaust
zilean does really well with ez but you have to counterpick it based on the enemy support.
so basically i pick zil support vs: zyra janna thresh blitz <non-heal, and you can still outdo janna shield> avoid vs: sona soraka <heal, and sona outpokes you too>
if taric and allistar pick a single point on their heal they wont ousustain you. If they pick more they can but they wont have mana/wont have damage to all in you
yes vs leona its also a skill matchup a bit if u poke from a safe place/deny vision its good. But a lane with a leona vs a zilean make for such good baits, she has to commit and you got revive, easy for a jungler to take advantage of that
argh this patch hurted zilean support a lot. Not so much in the laning phase, u can play passively with the targon. But what zilean excelled at was : having a low budget. Essentially u would aim at 40%CDR, that was your "end build", now with so much gold in the mid to late game your not as powerful as other aggressive support or supports with heals. I dont know really what to build after i hit max cdr. A bit of mana is always good but ap feels so useless.
They should give the treatment they did with some other supports, like more AP = more speed/more slow
Before his job in the mid/late game was all utility : revive, slow, speed but now we have supports who can do a lot more : annie, fiddlestick, taric, etc... they have a lot of damage + their utility
Thats what i thought, that Zilean as a former mid champ should utilize ap items quite good at this patch. And I like how he can revive tanks/assasins at full hp/mana now, this really hurts actually.
yes but u don't have the survivability (as a Zilean support) that ROA procure because you skip it. He feels so fragile if u go for the juicy targets. I always played him like a support more for controlling the fight and support my ad carry, like stopping the tanks assassin to reach or kill my ad carry and speed up my allies. Not double bombing their most fragile targets.
I need to figure out a build and playstyle with it. maybe mass aura controlling the fight, or glass canon and trying to be more aggressive in teamfight.
Zyra, fiddlestick, annie, tresh they can engage and dish out their stupid damage instantly sona, soraka, taric, nami they can control the fights with stun, heals that scales with AP I just feels he doesn't do enough. But i have to figure it out
zilean was pick in OGN by the kt bullets and he had the same problem that in my testing i saw. He can do ok in lane depending on the matchup but after that he has nothing, doa and montechristo said that he was just here to resurrect an hypercarry. the thing is that he is too squishy to do damage in teamfight, yes he can slow/speed but like karma can do that and 3x more like speed/stun/slow/damage from a safe distance/aoe speed.
It was a bad pick and even though they won at the end he did 1just one good action at a dragon fight thats all. Feels so badddd, i love him so much
I almost feel like if Zilean did nothing but sat faaaar back with his ADC and did nothing but slow the guy diving that ADC carry (or speed up your ADC) and using Rezz on ADC if needed he would be pretty boss mode. I didn't see the OGN game so I have no clue what that Zilean did. Theorycrafting yo!
well good performance from zilean he revived 2 targets, he had an impact, but it was not a very good game, the power from zilean come from mid game when he hits mana/cdr items and they end the game <30 min, so he was at his best here. But like i said no damage, i feel his utility is not enough
And what the hell he won his lane vs karma..... that shouldnt happen, karma has better range for her poke, and a shield for bomb
I'd guess it's because it's possible to dodge Karma Q, but not Zilean bomb. Also, Karma probably only has one or two points in shield, making it inefficient manawise for stopping bomb harass (and single bomb harass is pretty mana efficient). I didn't see the games though. Also, who was the enemy AD?
The camera didnt focus a lot on bot so i didnt reaally so how the matchup was handled but zilean started with no coin (just wards and health pots) but karma started with coin and bisucit.
So clearly zilean was not even utility. A shield on someone is clearly efficient, i have no problem of mana as karma. And zilean bomb didnt deal a lot.
You're right, at level 1. But the damage/mana ratio of Bomb goes up as Zilean levels it, so unless Karma is maxing shield, the cost-effectiveness of shielding bombs will drop rapidly.
he has a good attak range too (600), annie is 625, karma 525
and i agree that he his so squishy, soraka has a base armor of 13 and she can sit in the back all the time, zilean has a base armor of 7 ! 405 health for soraka and 383 for zilean. He really has shitty base stats
EPT
but you have to counterpick it based on the enemy support.
