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I mathed out wriggles + wota vs new gunblade. Didn't save the work but w+w is a bit more cost efficient.
Wriggle's + Will
Upside:
Most cost efficiency
Gives tankier combination of stats
Free ward means unlimited pushing
Better components
Downside:
Grants no chasing ability
Takes up two slots
Gunblade
Upside:
Gives more offensive combination of stats
Active good for chasing people down
Only one slot
Downside:
Doesn't sustain nearly as well in fights or give as much raw tankiness as it used to
Tried out both builds in a few games and my feeling is that A) neither of these are gospel, now that there's no clearly broken choice build according to game as with every hero and B) If you are winning your lane, w+w is much better as it will let you just roll on through with unstoppable pushing. The big thing with gunblade is the active, I would buy this if I needed to leave my lane and teamfight to win the game as it helps so much with sticking to a target.
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Would you ever consider Rylai's (or I guess Frozen Mallet) for a slow instead? The AP (or AD) is nice, and it has health on it as is. I don't play Jax much, just thinking out loud.
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should really ask daenius but rylais is extremely extremely good on him... reason it's not really core is because it takes so long to get and you need sustain first
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Jax end game is still broken imo.
Is that in normal high elo game you can deny him from farming to uber mode. ( though whenever i see jax in tournaments he end up owning , dont know why they dont pick him more , maybe a bias or they just dont like him - i find him sooo boring to play - )
In dominion he just rapes .
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On October 26 2011 05:11 Requizen wrote:
Would you ever consider Rylai's (or I guess Frozen Mallet) for a slow instead? The AP (or AD) is nice, and it has health on it as is. I don't play Jax much, just thinking out loud.
for a while rylais rush was somewhat standard. i'd take rylais over fmallet any day tho. not really sure why, mybe some1 can do the hard work of theorycrafting for me but jax seems more like a rylais kinda guy.
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Rylai's $3105
80 AP
500 HP
Ability Slow (works with ult too)
80 AP translates to 160 HP so 660 HP Total
FMallet $3250
20 AD
700 HP
AA Slow
20 AD translates to 60 HP so 760 HP total
Jax usually initiates with jump so the slow from Rylai's is applied immediately, while Mallet requires an autoattack to slow. I would also say 80 AP translates to more damage than a measly 20 AD. The HP difference is 100, favoring mallet, and the cost difference is $145 favoring Rylai's.
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rylai's is a great item on him it's just unwieldy because for 1500 you can get phage, or you can get giant's belt and amp tome. i think if you're winning your lane, going for the later game item can pay off. if you're tied or losing, however, i'd definitely go for a more midgame item like revolver, d-blade stack, or wriggles
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Rylai's is solid on Jax, if he gets slowed he won't be able to auto someone after leapstriking so I prefer it to mallet. Plus it procs on empower and 3rd hits afaik.
On October 27 2011 10:35 topoulo wrote:
Jax end game is still broken imo.
Is that in normal high elo game you can deny him from farming to uber mode. ( though whenever i see jax in tournaments he end up owning , dont know why they dont pick him more , maybe a bias or they just dont like him - i find him sooo boring to play - )
In dominion he just rapes .
Jax is strong in small skirmishes, basically the closer to 1v1 a fight is, the more powerful he becomes. Tourney fights usually end up as 5v5's around baron/dragon (not a lot of creeps to give free dodges), and there are champions that are much more consistent in these scenarios during more parts of the game.
He doesn't autowin every lane like he used to before the nerfs, but considering how much farming and how little fighting there is in tourneys he's somewhat underplayed (also he needs to be picked near last to avoid counters like yorick).
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oop
@below: I have never won against a yorick in lane, the sustain+slow+tankiness build is just too strong. Also never beaten a pantheon.
/shrug
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On October 27 2011 14:59 Flakes wrote:
(also he needs to be picked near last to avoid counters like yorick).
O_o
it's the other way around
jax pretty much destroys yorick
he gets dicked for the first few levels (but what champ doesn't) so he just plays passively til 5 or 6 then goes to town on yorick
free stun procs from creeps ftw
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On October 27 2011 15:00 Flakes wrote:
oop
@below: I have never won against a yorick in lane, the sustain+slow+tankiness build is just too strong. Also never beaten a pantheon.
/shrug
nobody beats pantheon :s
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panth is in turn the direct counter against jax
keep working on your jax v yorick. you can charge up your ult on his ghouls, get a stun proc from them, then jump on him with full combo and ult charged. it's just a matter of getting dicked for a few levels without trying to do something stupid and getting killed for it
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What are currently the preferable items to start out with on jax? I started playing him just before the HGB nerf and I just used to rush that. Do I go rageblade first now?
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It sounds like, from the math above on this page, that Wriggle's/Will of the Ancients is pretty much the new cool if you like being tougher, Gunblade is still a good rush for more offensive stats. You need one or the other for survivability/sustain, and then Rageblade is probably next best. I also tend towards Rylai's, but dunno about how efficient it is.
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After some playing, I feel that Gunblade is probably still best. The mix of offensive/defensive stats I think makes it better than WotA/Wriggle's.
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It seems like recently there's been a rise in AD top: Newly-buffed Wukong, Riven getting more popular, and some sort-of AD's in the form of Shyvana and Wriggle's/Warmogs Nidalee (I still don't understand this one). I've started to prefer lantern over early dblades, and going Wriggle's-->Gunblade into pure tank seems to be pretty effective in a lot of matchups. As per my tanky playstyle, rageblade is situational.
I've also been messing around with different runes, as Jax's #1 priority is to make it to midgame unscathed, and should rune accordingly for the earlygame. Here's what I'm running if it looks like I'm facing an AD bruiser top: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1ZGgO.jpg)
Reds: flat AD
Yellows: 5 flat armor 4 dodge
Blues: flat armor
Quints: flat armor
This combined with cloth+5 and 9/21/0 masteries stops every AD in their tracks, but is a gamble if the enemy can switch top/mid easily.
Against bruisers I often leave leapstrike at rank 1 and use it sparingly (keeping it handy to escape ganks), and instead max empower for its extremely mana-efficient harass. If it looks like I've got a solid lane advantage I stop leveling empower and switch to leapstrike to lower the CD like a normal Jax.
I've also been running teleport in some matchups, but I haven't tried it enough to draw any solid conclusions (I'm thinking it will help a lot against lane switches though).
bonus: dat devil jax
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/RKyKW.png)
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Wiggles, hex drinker, brutalizer, tabi, wits end, and aegis jax is pretty good at low level, but eventually people build frozen heart and you must sell something for last whisper.
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That looks like a pretty bad item build for Jax, tbh. Hex drinker, brutalizer, and aegis just don't seem to do much for Jax. And as a champ that deals out lots of AD and magic damage, last whisper also seems incredibly inefficient. The reason why frozen heart is good against Jax is because it lowers attack speed, not because of the armor.
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I played a bit of Jax this week cause he was free. I would go boots+pots --> Gunblade (Ad First) --> Ninja Tabi --> Rageblade --> and then either Rylais or IE depending on where I was at...
I dunno. I just felt kind of lost after GB and RB. Is there a better thing to shoot for after the core?
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I generally find its best to go with whatever the most important resist is after completing core, atmas or fon, maybe even a GA.
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EPT
