EPTAll that spell vamp does nothing when you are getting focus fired, but if you are low hp and you manage to use your active on a shen that just ult'd in to the fight at full hp, not only can you get out of the fray and save your own life, you can also jump back in on your next round of cooldowns cause the hp you stole from shen allows you to get right back in there. If you think you can solo carry the game because you are that fed and the other team might struggle to kill you cause they don't have enough damage, then sure, I think hextech might be worth it then over BotRK, but that's the only time I would build it.
[Champion] Jax - Page 45
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Meatpuppet
United States86 Posts
All that spell vamp does nothing when you are getting focus fired, but if you are low hp and you manage to use your active on a shen that just ult'd in to the fight at full hp, not only can you get out of the fray and save your own life, you can also jump back in on your next round of cooldowns cause the hp you stole from shen allows you to get right back in there. If you think you can solo carry the game because you are that fed and the other team might struggle to kill you cause they don't have enough damage, then sure, I think hextech might be worth it then over BotRK, but that's the only time I would build it. | ||
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Complete
United States1864 Posts
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Jax with BotRK vs. Gunblade. Assuming he has a Trinity. Not going to involve runes/masteries because I don't know how the fuck to build Jax. Assuming level 18. Ignoring the BotRK passive because math for that is poops. Trinity + BotRK + Show Spoiler + ASPD: 1.47 AD: 117.05 +55 AP: 30 Damages: Q: 303 W: 621 (counting Trinity proc) E: 330 max R: 241 Ult bonus resists: 61.5 Armor, 51 MR DPS: 278.2 (AA's) + 207.11 (W) + 144.6 (ult) = 630 + BotRK passive DPS to towers: 309 Burst combo (Q+E+auto+W+active+Rauto) = 15% HP + 1873 + 3x BotRK passive procs Expected Sustain: Per second: 51 During burst combo: 15% HP + 85 Trinity + Gunblade + Show Spoiler + ASPD: 1.21 AD: 117.05 +75 AP: 95 Damages: Q: 362 W: 682 (counting Trinity proc) E: 375 max R: 286.5 Ult bonus resists: 67.5 Armor, 64 MR Gunblade active: 188 DPS: 255.61 (AAs) + 227.45 (W) + 147.07 (ult) = 630 DPS to towers: 295 Burst combo (Q+E+auto+W+active+Rauto) = 2316 Expected Sustain: Per second: 68 During burst combo: 318 Some takeaways. 1 - DPS is identical not including BotRK passive, so DPS with BotRK passive is better. 2 - Burst combo damage is about equal when the target has about 2800 HP. Late game carries are typically in the 2500-2750 range, so I'd say burst damage is very similar. 3 - Gunblade Jax sustains a whopping extra 17 HP per second while autoing. Burst heal from BotRK Jax is better on a target with at least 1500 HP. 4 - BotRK has more utility. Better slow, more tower DPS. Also costs less. One disclaimer to note is that LoL wiki is contradictory. The spellvamp page says Empower doesn't benefit from spellvamp (because it's an AA reset), while the Jax page says it does. If it does, Jax's sustain per second goes up another 30, so that's kind of a big deal. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Assuming he never stops attacking, Jax reduces the Gunblade active cooldown by approximately 6.12 seconds per second of combat. This means in order to use the active twice in a fight, Jax has to be constantly attacking for about 10 seconds. With the item cooldown reduction mastery in Utility this is more like 7.5 seconds of attacking. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
The annoying part with Jax and spellvamp and stuff is when you have to take into account AS, CDR (because of Empower's reset), AP to try and get an average frequency of R procs. @_@ | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
All I know is I hated AP Jax when I tried it against bots so I just avoided AP items. About the only one that seems somewhat interesting is Nashors and that's not because of the AP but rather for the aspd,cdr,and on hit. The main reason for having AP is to do burst. AD/on hit does more damage in a sustained fight and Jax isn't a burst damage champion unless he's 3 levels + 2 items up on an enemy squishy with 70% life and no flash. Jax can't just jump in to a fight and then jump back out. You're sitting on a 10-6 second cooldown on your Triforce, Gunblade. Good luck surviving 10 seconds of abuse from an enemy team with your 20% spell vamp. Most people say spell vamp and life steal are combat stats. They are, but they're such shitty combat stats that I wonder if any of you have even done the math. If you look at the above, you're healing 60-70 life for 700+ damage. There's only a few champions that can treat sustain as a combat stat. Fiddle Aatrox and Sion come to mind. Lifesteal and spell vamp are sustain stats. If you're dueling an AD carry they might decide whether you win the duel, but having a ruby crystal would decide it even better. Finally, Jax is meant to duel and pick off people in small fights. He's often defined as a melee carry. His job isn't to sustain himself while hitting supports. It's to be able to duel and kill people in a string of 1v1s. A little bit more damage would be better than some sustain against ranged carries too because the faster they die, the less they can kite you. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
For the record, I played Jax with Gunblade two days ago and with BotRK yesterday. The latter did feel stronger. I vastly undervalued the AS from BotRK while overrated the spell vamp from Gunblade. Personal opinion. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Or if the Gunblade active did as much damage as the BotRK active. Or if the recharge passive on it was a tad stronger so using it twice in a fight was more guaranteed. Gunblade just a crappy not cost efficient item, imo. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
One possible saving grace for Gunblade is that while BotRK only adds physical damage, Gunblade adds more magic damage than it adds physical damage. Since the overall DPS/burst damage is very similar, in a situation where you have like, AD mid and AD jungler and the enemy team is exclusively building armor, Gunblade may be better. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
EDIT: It makes me wonder, if you could play gunblade/zephyr Jax and hug blue for maximum sustain. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
After doing a quick test it appears that spellvamp works with Empower, but only on the added magic damage. So, sustain per second with the two builds should be Trinity+BotRK: 51 Trinity+Gunblade: 86 It's also worth noting that my posted math involved 0 CDR. I don't know what other items you guys are building. More CDR favors gunblade. | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
It's the most standard MR item to get for Top Lane nowadays. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
Marks: AD Seals: Flat Armor Glyphs: Scaling MR Quints: 1 AD, 2 Life Steal Masteries: 9/21/0 site is bugged. Obviously finish Block then Honor Guard. Edit: tyty | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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Lmui
Canada6214 Posts
I think the best way to think of Jax with gunblade or botrk is to think of what BT vs IE for an AD carry like ashe is. BT lets an AD sustain a retarded amount in lane and never die, to take short trades and come out ahead in the long run while IE dishes out substantially more damage in a prolonged fight with autoattacks. Gunblade is much the same as a BT, sure, gunblade lets you sit in lane forever with retarded amounts of sustain but in a teamfight, you're gimping yourself by not going botrk. Gunblade feels stronger if you're trying to push someone out of lane in a 1v1 because the gunblade active comes up so often but the second you're trying to kill someone, botrk is far superior. Edit:: regarding itemization, I personally like Triforce Botrk -> boots2 -> SV/Randuins and then grab a GA as fifth before finishing the last item depending on the enemy team. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
I tend to favour Randuin's because of the bonus resistances from his ult which makes him favour HP over resistances, and if I have 1k I can just buy belt over mail and get a bunch of EHP out of it. Trinity gives some HP too but Trinity/SV/FH doesn't let you break the 3k HP mark for example. | ||
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