At this point I really like Bork over Gunblade, I think it gives me more of a splitpushing edge because the damage scales better. Also I like the fact that it's cheaper.
also relevant:

zer0das

United States8519 Posts

October 01 2013 02:06 GMT

#922

On October 01 2013 04:21 cLutZ wrote:

Show nested quote +

No one ever fights Jax. Jax is scary.

Pre-Triforce buff brawling with him as Renekton and Malphite wasn't that bad. Now? Eh.. >_>

ReketSomething

United States6012 Posts

October 01 2013 05:24 GMT

#923

Olaf used to fight with jax...With the changes we might have a new challenger in the arena?

Mogwai

United States13274 Posts

October 01 2013 09:05 GMT

#924

it's a tougher matchup after these changes than it used to be in the old days, but I think it's still a skill matchup where the better player usually wins.

Sponkz

Denmark4564 Posts

October 01 2013 13:17 GMT

#925

Ketera, could you do the math for guinsoo's rageblade compared to the sustain from botrk and gunblade?

Ketara

United States15065 Posts

October 01 2013 16:07 GMT

#926

I could.

But I could also tell you right now that it's bad.

At max stats, Rageblade is giving you 30 AD, 72 AP, and 32% Attackspeed.

+5 AD on Rageblade is not going to outdo 8% less attackspeed compared to BotRK. 72 AP is not going to outdo the BotRK passive if 65 AP and 20 AD on Gunblade doesn't.

It has no active effect and no sustain pre 50% health. Once you drop below 50% health it gives less sustain than either item.

All this from an item that you have to be in combat for 2-3 seconds before you're even getting the maximum benefits from it.

Plus it doesn't build out of a Cutlass, which is like the most overpowered item in the world, sent from heaven just to make your laning easier.

Ketara

United States15065 Posts

October 01 2013 16:26 GMT

#927

But since you asked so nicely:

With max passive, below 50% HP and max gunblade stacks using Neo's build.

Trinity + Rageblade
ASPD: 2.08
AD: 117.05 +82.8
AP: 102
Crit: 10%
CDR: 23%

DPS: 999
Sustain per second: 89

So, after getting to max stacks on both passive and rageblade and dropping below 50% HP, you're slightly outdoing a Gunblades DPS, but sustaining worse than either item with no active effect and a worse buildup.

I think Rageblade suffers from a similar problem to items like Ruunans Hurricane, Executioners Calling, Atma's and Youmuu's Ghostblade. It's only 2600g and for a 2600g item it's quite good. But when you're looking at comparisons of slot efficiency you compare it to 3200g items, and compared to those it just doesn't cut it.

If it also gave say 2-3 AD per stack and was priced at 3200g, it would suddenly be a very effective item for Jax if you were expecting long fights and burst wasn't important, because it would then hands down be beating either item in long term DPS.

Ryuu314

United States12679 Posts

October 01 2013 17:40 GMT

#928

Rageblade used to be interesting on Jax cause you would pseudo-heal when stacking it up. Rageblade is pretty bad on anyone now.

Requizen

United States33802 Posts

October 05 2013 16:22 GMT

#929

Been a long time since I played Jax, do you run his masteries defense or offense?

GhandiEAGLE

United States20754 Posts

October 05 2013 16:30 GMT

#930

On October 06 2013 01:22 Requizen wrote:
Been a long time since I played Jax, do you run his masteries defense or offense?

SUPPORT

Complete

United States1864 Posts

October 05 2013 17:02 GMT

#931

I see most go 21/9 duel pen, 9/21 also acceptable.

GhandiEAGLE

United States20754 Posts

October 05 2013 17:29 GMT

#932

As some clarification, I watch this guy Link a lot, he's a really good Diamond Jax and also the person Dyrus studied when he was trying to get a handle on Season 3 Jax. He prefers 9/0/21, here's why

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3439684&highlight

Ketara

United States15065 Posts

October 05 2013 18:35 GMT

#933

On October 06 2013 02:29 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
As some clarification, I watch this guy Link a lot, he's a really good Diamond Jax and also the person Dyrus studied when he was trying to get a handle on Season 3 Jax. He prefers 9/0/21, here's why

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3439684&highlight

I am very suspicious of Links logic behind the 9/0/21 start.

zer0das

United States8519 Posts

October 05 2013 18:51 GMT

#934

I'm not. It sounds great against Malph and Singed to be honest.

FinestHour

United States18466 Posts

October 05 2013 19:30 GMT

#935

On October 06 2013 03:35 Ketara wrote:

Show nested quote +

I am very suspicious of Links logic behind the 9/0/21 start.

until you get to diamond 1 his logic might be better then yours

Requizen

United States33802 Posts

October 05 2013 19:38 GMT

#936

The logic makes sense, all his points are fair enough. I assume it is much easier to play this setup with better mechanics, though, as someone like me desperately needs 21 points in Defense to not get screwed over in a duel. A more careful and proficient player can survive with no issue with Utility runes, though.

Interesting. I may try them if I can tear myself away from Hearthstone :3

Ketara

United States15065 Posts

October 05 2013 19:38 GMT

#937

Lets see if we can do a little math to figure out which mastery build is best. This sort of thing is very difficult to do typically, but I'm going to give it a try because I have fun doing this shit.

For starters, we'll assume that 9/0/21 is worse late game. 2 GP10 isn't helpful at 6 items, neither is the starting gold, the biscuit or the ward. Lifesteal is nice but it's not going to be as good as 21 points in either tree later in the game, so if you're going Utility you're doing it to pick up an early game advantage.

So what's going to give Jax an advantage in early laning?

I'm going to disregard the +50 starting gold giving you two potions, because that requires you to sit at the fountain. You can already sit at the fountain and get 1 extra potion without missing any minions, so really you're only getting a 1 potion advantage if your strategy is to sit at the fountain.

So, lets look at the early game difference in sustain.

We're gonna look at a fairly standard 21/0/9 build (I'm going to use lets say http://www.finalesfunkeln.com/s3/#GlUvSllTvdtgvqUr, but this is probably not the best, we can work on that later) using lets say AS reds and Lifesteal quints.

Our Dorans Blade start Jax has 73.339 AD with 6% lifesteal as 21/0/9. 70.339 as 9/0/21

A last hit on a minion as 21/0/9 hits for 82.83 and heals for 9.96
A last hit on a minion as 9/0/21 hits for 72.87 and heals for 11.55

So, 1.5 extra healing per hit approx at level 1. Your 3% spell vamp on a level 1 Empower is healing for less than 1 HP after counting enemy MR. This is honestly fairly negligable, or at least I think so. Maybe I'm wrong!

You're getting the same biscuit, the same summoner mastery etc. So is the extra starting potion and 60 second ward really worth having worse late game power? I'm not sure I'm seeing it.

I also really really don't think the GP10 mastery is any good. It's an extra 12 gold per minute. Even supports aren't super into GP10 at this point, so why would your top laner be? I feel like if you're going 21 utility you're getting the GP10 because of a lack of better options, and are putting a ton of mastery points into 3% movespeed and lifesteal/spellvamp.

I dunno. I am quite suspicious.