My god you are so pretentious Southlight. I emphasized the blue buff because not "everyone" knows that as you seem to think. I wrote a small guide pinpointing important things and that is one of them. I'm not a super pro or anything, I was about 1600 elo, and at that level not everyone realizes that they need to help me get blue every game after 10ish.
Mejajs is underrated as shit. It's a great item on Kass if you can avoid death and keep blue. Chances are many think it's bad because you don't see "pro LoL players" pick it up. In my opinion, it's utterly retarded to watch LoL pros and try to emulate their builds and play when in comparison to something like Starcraft just because of the sole reason that it is a team game. You can cut many, many corners in solo and team queue because of the lack of organization, skill, and teamwork in this game because it is a team based game. Even at 1600 elo, which is probably higher than most people who would even read what I posted, what I said applies. Even then, I've yet to personally reach a level where Mejajs didn't pay off for me later in the game. Kassadin above all is a carry hero.
Last thing, it's really discrediting to you when you try to drop an ad hominem saying that someone like me thinks I'm "hotshotgg" (and therefore discredits Kassadin players) because I point out that I am okay at playing the hero. I play LoL maybe once or twice a week when I get bored of Starcraft and I don't think I am even close to being one of the best players, but I think that I am still much better than most players my level. With that, I think that me posting how I play can help other players of a lower level increase their skill. All I am trying to do is help.
Personally I have not tried the philosopher's stone build myself. While I could see the health/mana regen being very useful in lane, I feel it would delay your core too much. Your ultimate, a silence, a slow, and a few potions should be sufficient to keep you alive in the ~lvl6 to ~lvl10 range. (I'd also like to note AGAIN that I posted my item build because someone also recommended a fast archangels).
You could get cata or tears first - It's preference - The reason I had tears listed first was because I'd rather have tears + boots + pots rather than just cata - Catalyst is quite a bit more expensive than tears and you need to be dodging lots of skillshots mid against the popular AP lineup that is so prevalent these days. Also, while kassadin is melee you will have your ult to get out of sticky situations and silence the opponent to prevent a lot of the harrass that is to come your way from the mid heroes, so catalyst isnt really necessary until you start getting in the more engaging battles (dragon).
With the tenacity buff I'm thinking philo first is superior to cata first now that you can upgrade it to Miracle without feeling gimped without merc's or whatever. It's undoubtedly kind of a shitty lategame item to have but if you reach the 45 min mark and you're full you can always replace it with spellblade...?
I've almost dumped Archs and mejai's on every character since the charge time for most champs is awful and playing like a pussy to keep stacks is not often rewarding. I much prefer survivability for lane and building strong AP for mid-lategame ---vulture build.
On September 17 2011 05:59 -Trippin- wrote: Last thing, it's really discrediting to you when you try to drop an ad hominem saying that someone like me thinks I'm "hotshotgg" (and therefore discredits Kassadin players) because I point out that I am okay at playing the hero. I play LoL maybe once or twice a week when I get bored of Starcraft and I don't think I am even close to being one of the best players, but I think that I am still much better than most players my level. With that, I think that me posting how I play can help other players of a lower level increase their skill. All I am trying to do is help.
On September 16 2011 11:58 -Trippin- wrote: I'm a pretty pro Kassadin if I do say so myself (for this season, I am 4-1 and 36-5-29) and I almost never lose unless there is a leaver on my team.
To be fair, when that's the opening sentence of your post, it's pretty hard believe that you DON'T have an overinflated opinion of your own abilities. There's very little that saying something like that accomplishes other than attempting a not-so-subtle brag. It doesn't lend credibility to what you say, and it just makes you look like an ass.
I think Uta is being overly aggressive about this, but I can definitely see his concern. The champ threads are largely supposed to be a venue of discussion, not of people who individually all think they're super good at the champion trying to teach the "right way" to everyone on how to play the champion. The OP obviously is a guide, but its largely to amalgamate the information from the discussion in the thread. It obviously has to start out somewhat preachy as before any discussion occurs, the writer has to use his own judgment to put the guide together, and I think Uta has at least done a good job of not being overly forceful in saying "THIS is how you play Kassadin".
Pstone vs Cata is weird because you really benefit from the max mana on Cata. PStone HP Regen helps you get TO the Cata though. I think the ideal is still to hit Cata ASAP, it just may or may not be more or less difficult than it used to be. I know for a fact that against an Orianna who understood the matchup non-Regrowth would fuck you up because all she needed to do was shield herself and right-click on you. That was dumb. Fortunately they nerfed her AA range so you don't lose in such a retarded way anymore lol.
I understand the SS hate, my point is just that there's a specific playstyle and item-build that caters to it, which has worked consistently for one of the best Kass players for the better part of two years. You can like it or hate it, but it's effective, validated, and has logical backing as to why it works. I don't like it, as I've never been able to pull off his strat/build, but I also understand that I preferred playing tanky, because I generally play either tanky heroes or support heroes. I just want people to keep this sort of open mind and willingness to understand the REASONING behind other peoples' decisions. Again, as stated in the OP, his build costs like 3000 gold (incl boots) to be effective. That is dirt cheap, and when he took Clarity (despite what you may feel about the spell) allowed him to be a sick 2v2 laner a year ago because he'd even skip the Tears! SS -> GA! I dunno if he can pull off that stunt, or whether he even really wants to, but it's been done. At a high level. By a very good player. I just want people to respect that it's possible instead of going HERPDERP CLARITY MUST BE NUB.
Re: Trippin I was saying people were being a hotshot, not hotshotgg. Hotshots that don't read the OP and regurgitate information. This is because there's a lack of respect shown to people who've put in time and effort into discussing, debating, and consolidating information. The OP is long, I've had a guy remark to me it might be too long last night. But that's because I don't believe in giving people a "do X Y and Z and be pro" sort of pointer. I want people to understand the thought processes behind what some of the good players do with specific heroes, and then let you think for yourself. Almost everything is covered, and if it's not, sure, bring it up as a discussion topic or a pointer that I haven't dealt with it, and shit will get done. Barging in here talking about how pro you are or how you're gleaning from high-elo friends or blatantly posting a guide that doubles up with the OP or has a logical fallacy screams lack of respect to the people before you.
Not mentioning blue buff in the OP was an oversight, and one I'll correct both here and in the Malz thread, although I still maintain that "blue buff on AP hero" is common sense at almost all levels of play.
I mean, the point of the champ threads isn't for 5 people to all come in and post their mini-guides. That's the problem all the old champ threads had. The purpose is to invite discussion on various issues, which the OP than can collect into the first post as a guide. Both Trippin and marvin's posts are written in such a way that they do not allow easy discussion, in large part because many points that are worth discussion are taken as fact and hence do not give reasoning for the reader to discuss. There should at least be some reasoning behind things because people aren't going to take what you say as gospel.
Examples:
The skill build you want is Q, E... max Q and E, then W last.
Some Kassadin players get W at 2 and many have a rank by 7 or 8. It's a non-negligible amount of mana restoration, gives you an E charge at very little cost, lets you win some weird trades with the extra autoattack damage, and scales another 0.2 AP into your combo. So provide reasoning why you consider it not worth the extra E damage.
Ghost and teleport for summoner skills.
Summoner spells are one of the most malleable and situational selections for a player to make. What about Kassadin makes it such that even vs. champs/team comps where Flash/Ignite/Exhaust/Cleanse might be useful, you'd still take Ghost/TP?
For items, start with a sapphire crystal and HP pots, and graduate that to a catalyst of the protector asap.
Many bad matchups might call for a more defensive item start than Sapphire Crystal, such as Regrowth Pendant. Give reasoning as to why you believe that all matchups are good enough to allow you to get away with Sapphire Crystal.
Personally I have not tried the philosopher's stone build myself. While I could see the health/mana regen being very useful in lane, I feel it would delay your core too much. Your ultimate, a silence, a slow, and a few potions should be sufficient to keep you alive in the ~lvl6 to ~lvl10 range. (I'd also like to note AGAIN that I posted my item build because someone also recommended a fast archangels).
You could get cata or tears first - It's preference - The reason I had tears listed first was because I'd rather have tears + boots + pots rather than just cata - Catalyst is quite a bit more expensive than tears and you need to be dodging lots of skillshots mid against the popular AP lineup that is so prevalent these days. Also, while kassadin is melee you will have your ult to get out of sticky situations and silence the opponent to prevent a lot of the harrass that is to come your way from the mid heroes, so catalyst isnt really necessary until you start getting in the more engaging battles (dragon).
With the tenacity buff I'm thinking philo first is superior to cata first now that you can upgrade it to Miracle without feeling gimped without merc's or whatever. It's undoubtedly kind of a shitty lategame item to have but if you reach the 45 min mark and you're full you can always replace it with spellblade...?
I've almost dumped Archs and mejai's on every character since the charge time for most champs is awful and playing like a pussy to keep stacks is not often rewarding. I much prefer survivability for lane and building strong AP for mid-lategame ---vulture build.
nah late game u sell ur spellpen boots for mercs for tenacity kus u got dat voidstaff
edit: put the quote in question since 5 ppl posted between browser refresh lolol
You're pretty much hitting the nail as to why I lashed out at the two guys from last night, so that's that. If you post a guide, then make it be something new, something innovative. Blow our minds away. If you want to raise discussion, bring it on in a normal manner, not an "Im a pro this what you do."
On September 16 2011 18:36 marvin. wrote: Also funny that you talk about my ego, when Southlight comes in here like he owns the forums (he is the OP, which is why I didn't really bring it up) but then criticizes me for posting common information when people are still "experimenting" with fast archangels and mejais.
Like that.
Respect.
I feel it.
Somewhere.
Maybe.
Edit:
On September 17 2011 06:32 barbsq wrote: nah late game u sell ur spellpen boots for mercs for tenacity kus u got dat voidstaff
I still hate on Sorc boots :< but we had a loooooooooong discussion in the general thread about that so w/e lol.
Thx for your guide Southlight, I'm really new to LoL (less than a week, just playing because of Dota2 really ) and Kass is one of the only Champs I play, your guide was awesome, and all of the discussion about items has been really helpful in trying to understand how to play him more efficiently.
On September 17 2011 08:30 Wrongspeedy wrote: Thx for your guide Southlight, I'm really new to LoL (less than a week, just playing because of Dota2 really ) and Kass is one of the only Champs I play, your guide was awesome, and all of the discussion about items has been really helpful in trying to understand how to play him more efficiently.
This is the guide that inspired me to learn Kassadin 8 months ago so I know how you feel! *Uta fanboy*
I DO have a question for Southlight (hopefully nobody asked this already) regarding cleanse nowadays: is cleanse still a good option for Kassadin? How do you feel about cleanse ghost in the current gameplay? 8 months ago it allowed me to do crazy brave shit and not pay for it due to cleanse + R... but now that Kassadin has a TON of trouble in the lane that I almost feel that cleanse is just sitting there for most of the game and just taking up a precious summoner spot that I can otherwise use for say exhaust or TP....
I dunno if there's as clean-cut an answer anymore :< Obviously if the other team is stacked on CC and you don't think you have like 1.6k or w/e for QSS then it might be good for survival... although alternatively you can just stack normal survival and try to wing it that way. As I mentioned I sort of prefer Teleport/Flash because Teleport lets me hang onto the lane a bit more than I probably would otherwise, and so on and so forth.
On September 17 2011 08:30 Wrongspeedy wrote: Thx for your guide Southlight, I'm really new to LoL (less than a week, just playing because of Dota2 really ) and Kass is one of the only Champs I play, your guide was awesome, and all of the discussion about items has been really helpful in trying to understand how to play him more efficiently.
This is the guide that inspired me to learn Kassadin 8 months ago so I know how you feel! *Uta fanboy*
I DO have a question for Southlight (hopefully nobody asked this already) regarding cleanse nowadays: is cleanse still a good option for Kassadin? How do you feel about cleanse ghost in the current gameplay? 8 months ago it allowed me to do crazy brave shit and not pay for it due to cleanse + R... but now that Kassadin has a TON of trouble in the lane that I almost feel that cleanse is just sitting there for most of the game and just taking up a precious summoner spot that I can otherwise use for say exhaust or TP....
On the note of S-in' Uta's D, I remember wayyyy back last summer when I first started postin up in heeeaah, Uta posted some videos of himself playin' Kass (which also inspired me to get him....that and my friend's good play).
I remember bein' like 'Wow those black/white spell particles and his skin is fucking cool I gotta get this guy.' And I never quite understood why he was this weird purple colour and no one I ever played against had the cool black/white skin....
Man I just found his vid and looked at that skin again.....Riot really needs to use it.
For the sake of veering this discussion into something constructive (away from our little dick measuring contest), I think that blue buff is more important on Kassadin than almost any other hero in the game. Having the blue buff on Kassadin allows for you to blink around farming everything without fear of running out of mana for an important engagement. This makes Kassadin one of the best farmers in the game (probably the best period) and it allows him to explode out of control if you allow him to keep the blue buff.
I would rather put the Blue buff to better use by picking off their carries instantly. But I guess thats just me. But yea there are times in a game where you can farm happily with your blue buff.
I'm of the opinion that post-cata kassadin really doesn't have as problematic a mana consumption issue as you make it out to be. There's no reason to stack rift over 2x, no one can keep up with you anyways.
Cooldown reduction is a bit moot too with how he functions. Give that blue to the other more deserving ap.
On September 17 2011 05:59 -Trippin- wrote: Chances are many think it's bad because you don't see "pro LoL players" pick it up.
I agree, that is clearly how I feel.
I gotta agree with southlight here, most people see a champion thread, post their 2 cents CONTRIBUTE NOTHING and act like its gods gift to the thread. If you have something to discuss about the guide or argue a point sure, but "hey guys, this is how I play kass, do this, build x and y" posts should be deleted as there shouldn't be a guide with 20 posts a separate miniguides there should be constructive discussion and questions below the main guide. Like that random dude in that nasus guide who posted his 3 on his full DPS nasus and just left it. That shit should be deleted it is totally worthless.
If you're going to say X is better than Y or Z is terrible at least post your credentials as getting 20/0 score in a 1200 elo game means nothing at all.
On September 17 2011 22:42 TL Blazeraid wrote: I'm of the opinion that post-cata kassadin really doesn't have as problematic a mana consumption issue as you make it out to be. There's no reason to stack rift over 2x, no one can keep up with you anyways.
Cooldown reduction is a bit moot too with how he functions. Give that blue to the other more deserving ap.
I actually encountered alot of situations where I was forced to stack rift more often than 2times. Also if you are able to stack it then youll do alot more burst than if your not and your alot more mobile.
I think it might be viable to build kass completely around riftwalk instead of going mass AP. But I'am still gathering some experience on that. tear+kata into roa+aa never felt wrong/weak so far.
EPT
) and Kass is one of the only Champs I play, your guide was awesome, and all of the discussion about items has been really helpful in trying to understand how to play him more efficiently.
