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Hi guys, I don't usually post in here but I have always loved Kass as a hero and I've played him in high level games (games with 1900+ elo players) and in tournament games before. I see a lot of misinformation in this thread, so hopefully I can set some of you guys on the right path. First off, don't even plan on getting a stack item on any hero unless you're doing REALLY REALLY well and know there's one feeder on the other team you can take advantage of over and over again. Basically ONLY if you vastly vastly outskill your opponents.
The key to Kassadin is getting a good start - If you can go relatively even with mid or maybe even just slightly behind, once you hit 6 you should be good. You will most of the times want to take 1 level into W at 2. Why? Because the mana return from it is very good and you will want to Q the enemy as much as you can for harrass. Getting W will let you last hit better and harrass better at the same time - very useful. Remember, the key to a good game with kassadin is the start. If you can get a decent early farm, you're set for the game.
In terms of items, I highly recommend tear boots catalyst into hat, sorc boots, void staff. you don't get much AP for a while, but that's fine. You need the mana because there will be times you won't have blue and even with blue you can go oom if you use your ult correctly when you gank. And again, this build will allow you to get a solid early game farm in. Getting a mejais will gimp you severely early when you are already not an early game hero. Also, don't get archangels till later because the upgrade fee is 1k and your tear doesn't even have enough stacks to justify getting it so early. After your hat/void staff, go ahead and get a banshees for defense and then upgrade into archangels because at that point you will have a lot of mana.
If you find yourself without blue buff (it got stolen or something, or you died with it) dont hesitate to get a blue. Kassadin NEEDS cooldown reduction badly. Without blue buff, the elixir can help compensate.
Also, you should get ignite for the burst on kass and Flash for the escape. Flash is essential because it makes you safe from ganks pre-6 and it also allows you to double blink late game which is incredibly important late game once the enemy's #1 priority is killing you.
For runes, you should be running mpen reds, mp5/lvl yellows, ap/lvl blues or flat mr blues if you anticipate heavy AP harrass mid like cass. and ap quints obviously.
For masteries, the standard caster setup 9/0/21 is mandatory because it gives you everything you need as kass. Mana, exp for faster 6, neut buff duration, cdr, movespeed, flash cd, SS cd, mpen, more cdr from offense, and some AP from offense too.
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So you get a Tear, Catalyst AND mp5 yellows?
Sounds quite silly.
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If anyone wonders why I've become so cynical in this subforum (although I've always had a sarcastic streak), it's because people keep coming into this thread and freaking regurgitating what I've said both OPs and acting like they're presenting new information, and acting like their Kass is all dat without ever dealing with the crippling issues for Kassadin when he's not just a counterpick.
Good lord.
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If you know you're going to get 2nd blue you can rush RoA and add tear right after, but that is riskier. You need the mana as kass, because when you go to gank you should be avoiding the wards using your ult then using a charged ult along with QE to finish off the gank.
It sounds like overkill on mana but Kass is the most mana hungry hero in the game. And mana indirectly translates to damage with his ult. Getting tear early helps you build up the stacks early and catalyst gives you lane dominance and more health to live through ganks that will inevitably come because you are doing well and a fed kass is trouble.
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On September 16 2011 16:09 Southlight wrote:
If anyone wonders why I've become so cynical in this subforum (although I've always had a sarcastic streak), it's because people keep coming into this thread and freaking regurgitating what I've said both OPs and acting like they're presenting new information, and acting like their Kass is all dat without ever dealing with the crippling issues for Kassadin when he's not just a counterpick.
Good lord.
Apologies for posting information that directly addresses posts that came after yours. And I'm not really sure what the latter half of your post is all about, or why you sound so elitist. I didn't come in here to hijack your thread, I came here to post information relevant to how Kass is played at a high level.
Edit: And your OP implies a lot more flexibility in his build than there actually is. If you want to play kassadin non-troll style, he's pretty rigid in terms of how he has to be built in order to make up for the fact that he is a melee caster.
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On September 16 2011 16:14 marvin. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 16:09 Southlight wrote:
If anyone wonders why I've become so cynical in this subforum (although I've always had a sarcastic streak), it's because people keep coming into this thread and freaking regurgitating what I've said both OPs and acting like they're presenting new information, and acting like their Kass is all dat without ever dealing with the crippling issues for Kassadin when he's not just a counterpick.
Good lord. Apologies for posting information that directly addresses posts that came after yours. And I'm not really sure what the latter half of your post is all about, or why you sound so elitist. I didn't come in here to hijack your thread, I came here to post information relevant to how Kass is played at a high level. Edit: And your OP implies a lot more flexibility in his build than there actually is. If you want to play kassadin non-troll style, he's pretty rigid in terms of how he has to be built in order to make up for the fact that he is a melee caster.
Southlight used to be one of, if not the best Kassadin player in the game. He's also 1900+ elo I believe.
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On September 16 2011 16:18 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 16:14 marvin. wrote:On September 16 2011 16:09 Southlight wrote:
If anyone wonders why I've become so cynical in this subforum (although I've always had a sarcastic streak), it's because people keep coming into this thread and freaking regurgitating what I've said both OPs and acting like they're presenting new information, and acting like their Kass is all dat without ever dealing with the crippling issues for Kassadin when he's not just a counterpick.
Good lord. Apologies for posting information that directly addresses posts that came after yours. And I'm not really sure what the latter half of your post is all about, or why you sound so elitist. I didn't come in here to hijack your thread, I came here to post information relevant to how Kass is played at a high level. Edit: And your OP implies a lot more flexibility in his build than there actually is. If you want to play kassadin non-troll style, he's pretty rigid in terms of how he has to be built in order to make up for the fact that he is a melee caster. Southlight used to be one of, if not the best Kassadin player in the game. He's also 1900+ elo I believe.
To say you're the best player at ____ is quite pretentious - If you actually read the contents of my post, I actually agree with most of what he posts in his original post. I was addressing the other (more recent posts) that he had not talked about yet in detail, which for some reason offended him because I think I'm "all that" because I'm posting information that is consistent with pretty much how all high rated players play Kass.
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Why is it that everyone in this subforum these days is so quick to point every single build or strat that isn't theirs a troll build without ever testing shit, or verifying shit. Why is this subforum turning into an elitist circlejerk of stubborn brainless lemmings who follow tier lists and top-end players like Egyptian gods without ever thinking for themselves. Why, why, why.
/end rant unrelated to Kass
He's flexible because almost every top player (and I mean 1900+) that is reknown for Kassadin plays him a different way Edit: And I don't just mean item builds. They literally play him a different way, and their item builds reflect their playstyle, after much refinement and comfort. He's flexible because his base power has not changed a single bit since like two years ago, and he has the same exact strengths and weaknesses; his use has only changed because his weaknesses have been exacerbated by better knowledge of the game by opponents and the fact that he gets utterly shit on by 2/3 of the game's heroes. People are regurgitating shit that has been proven to be plenty viable by many good players, and acting like they've come across "that new magic formula" when all they're doing is posting one way people can play Kassadin... when he doesn't have an "I lost the game for us" laning phase. Which is his main problem!
Just because you feel your strat works well for you doesn't invalidate builds favored by top-end and famous players like DSBu (w/e his name was) and statikk and GJ and such. Especially aggravating is the fact that you're posting stuff that's already covered, without going into much more depth than saying "X works," without explaining WHY it works and why it is a SUPERIOR ALTERNATIVE to other strats/builds, usually because you have nothing more than personal opinion to ride on. Hey guess what, there's a 2000 rated player (or wherever he is now) that has consistently favored the Tear -> SS -> GA build. I guess he just sucks!
It is frustrating for me to read this thread because every few months someone comes in posting a build that has extremely minute variants from what used to be a standard build, or posts a build that only works with a favorable matchup (duh) or an incompetent opponent, without ever dealing with the critical flaw that currently makes him hell to use against proper picking. The one time I tried playing Kass solo queue in the past month for instance they counterpicked me by dropping a Mord and Yorick solo lane combo. Fuck you all and I hope you die Edit: sorry this was pointed toward the people counterpicking me. Solving this is the one and only (as far as I'm concerned) mystery to unraveling his current niche status. I have given up, having found his early-game power level too weak to deal with his flawed matchups. I have given up since last year when they introduced MF and I got curbstomped by every excellent MF, even before the DBlade stack (which completely renders you useless). Not one person since then has offered a single solution to the problem, instead bringing up more and more guides about "hey if you stomp X shit player or X AP hero you can farm up a storm and miraculously carry just because Kassadin with farm is pretty fucking OP." Hey, newsflash. Everyone knows this.
I especially loved the part about emphasizing blue buff. Everyone knows this! Everyone!
Edit:
Also for the record, for people thinking I'm being elitist. I like to think I'm one of the more open-minded (with regards to how you play a hero, etc.) players here. I will rarely, rarely ever trash a build or strategy just because it's different. But I will always compare a "new build" or strategy to an existing one, and point out flaws that are based on stuff like raw numbers. Sometimes I am wrong. Many times I am not. An example is the post in the... previous? page about how one guy somehow felt replacing Catalyst with Glacial Shroud would suddenly make Kassadin a good melee hero. Except there is a logical fallacy there from pure numbers. The inability to see that logical fallacy is what drove me angry that time. Every time someone posts a new idea I come in with the hope that someone has figured something out, some setup, something that is able to consistently circumvent his major, glaring weakness. Every time over the past year I have been devastatingly let down. Stop doing this.
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Isn't Kassadin alrite mid most of the time now though since its always AP mid?
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He's brutal to pick first pick because if the other team is any smart they'll simply slide a ranged AD or something at you, and you're fucked again because 20 minutes into the game you're staring at Kassadin: 70 CS Insert Random Ranged AD: 250 CS and they'll just have a bruiser or lame-o tank top like Singed with a similar issue. He's a fine counterpick, obviously, but that has never been refuted, and I even posted following the recent patch that he's just back to curbstomping AP heroes and nothing more, nothing less. But again, when you curbstomp an AP hero and get farm up the ass it hardly matters what you build because you're Kassadin, one of the most aggravating carry heroes in the game if he can actually managed to get farm without giving his opponent 15+ minutes of superior free farm.
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It seems I hit a nerve just trying to give myself a little bit of credibility when I was mainly trying to explain how mejais is terrible and offer a concise post that is how MOST players play kassadin. I'm still not sure why you are so angry at me for reposting certain information. Is there a rule against agreeing with the norm and stating the most common (and in my opinion) effective way of playing kassadin? Did you even read the post before mine? Someone posted about going early mejais and another going early archangels - both of which are terrible ideas.
Sure, there are variants of how to play a hero. Then there are the ideas that are just bad because they.... are bad. I've never seen statikk's build in action and I can't see it working when playing people who don't feed endlessly. Did you see me once say that the GJ's build is not viable? No. In my post I wanted to accentuate the importance of Kassadin's early game and list out how you usually set kass up. You reference MF and how no one has offered a solution to this yet people are just bringing up the same shit over and over again. Well the reason I didn't even mention MF is because you almost (basically never) see AD carries mid anymore. Oh and in reference to the blue portion of my post, I obviously mentioned it in reference to the elixir. Which you probably forgot to mention in your blind rage of reading my post of information you probably already knew.
I'm not really sure where your rage comes from still.
It is frustrating for me to read this thread because every few months someone comes in posting a build that has extremely minute variants from what used to be a standard build, or posts a build that only works with a favorable matchup (duh) or an incompetent opponent, without ever dealing with the critical flaw that currently makes him hell to use against proper picking.
Sure, my build is standard but with the current metagame of AP mid (and recent kass buffs) he is a bit more playable now than before. Also, I reiterate the fact that I was mostly posting my build to aid the people who posted just recently. No where in my post did I say that this build is the end all be all of kassadin builds. I recognize that he is hard countered by a good number of heroes, but I'm not posting an exhaustive guide on Kassadin, nor do I have the responsibility to. This obviously makes Kassadin a hard hero to play in ranked because you want to pick him at the end of your lineup, but you also need mid (which you rarely get as one of the last picks), but this is besides the point.
Not one person since then has offered a single solution to the problem, instead bringing up more and more guides about "hey if you stomp X shit player or X AP hero you can farm up a storm and miraculously carry just because Kassadin with farm is pretty fucking OP." Hey, newsflash. Everyone knows this.
Hey, newsflash. I wasn't saying stomp X shit player of X AP hero and farm up and miraculously carry. I was offering a build with specific runes and masteries that I feel was getting lost in the thread because of some posts that just don't make sense (like going early archangels). I'd also like to point out that no where in your main post is this exact setup posted (which is the most common one, I don't think you'd argue with me on this point..)
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1) I hate unilateral disdain of an item without logical backup. Soulstealer is usually terrible, because you are reliant on combat and the ability to maintain stacks. You also invest heavily in an item that gives you low cost efficiency for a significant amount of time, on a hero archetype that usually is expected to hammer people from start to mid-game, and sometimes onward. Soulstealer works on Kassadin with the Tears build (primarily Statikk's one) because Kass as a hero is not as reliant on AP to do early-mid game damage (which is where so much of his flexibility originally comes from), allowing for a relatively cheap 1.2k investment in a single AP item, while spending the rest of his meager gold on utility and sustain (Tears and GA, for mana and survival). If things go well, yay, you've got stacks, and you only need 5 stacks to have "break-even" on gold, and up till that point you're reliant on so many other factors with Kassadin anyways. With this sort of item setup, and the sort of playstyle in which you play conservatively and patiently and simply work as a supporting/sniping nuker, it works fine. Especially because it is NOT gold intensive.
2) Kassadin's item flexibility largely comes from the fact that there are 3 distinct playstyles, although I dislike the 3rd (my own) because jumper heroes can wear you down too fast. Most of his stuff for the good players is reactive, unless you are doing statikk and vulture builds. I do mention the vulture build below though because that's what I consider the norm these days, which is the Pstone -> Cata (or skip Pstone, not sure how the AP matchup works these days, and you might need to shift back and forth depending on which AP hero you're against) into Deathcap into random other standard AP carry stuff. This is all very standard. For any AP hero.
People are being nice and not jumping on you (beyond Shake's little quip) about Tears -> Boots -> Cata because they're being kind to what works for you and aren't jumping on a different strat like you are. For my part, I find it incredulous that you can get Tears on Kass before Cata because he's a melee hero, and takes damage against any competent opponent every time he goes to get some moolah. But hey, if it works for you, it works for you. See, I'm being flexible here and not trashing on someone else's build, even though I really could.
3) I hate people posting regurgitation because it means it's yet another person who didn't just read the freaking OP (holds true for any thread), and it's especially annoying when they come in acting like it's the new, best way to play the hero when it's absolutely nothing new.
My brother and I have been experimenting with a tank build for kassadin. ... This build is still experimental but it has given us quite a few good results and so I would like others to test it before I write a full guide to it.
I'm a pretty pro Kassadin if I do say so myself (for this season, I am 4-1 and 36-5-29) and I almost never lose unless there is a leaver on my team.
I see a lot of misinformation in this thread, so hopefully I can set some of you guys on the right path.
Why is it that every single person feels like a hotshot with this hero? There's like zero respect to anyone else who's played the hero because every person feels like the next great thing and they've unlocked the mysteries to Kassadin not being played much. Dubya Tee Eff.
I mean you say one thing and say the other. You attempt to say that you respect the opinions, but then drop this wonderboy.
Edit: And your OP implies a lot more flexibility in his build than there actually is. If you want to play kassadin non-troll style, he's pretty rigid in terms of how he has to be built in order to make up for the fact that he is a melee caster.
O REALLY. Well thanks for respecting other people who play (or played) this hero.
TL;DR you come in acting like you're "correcting" people (in truth just placing your own opinions, much of which is redundant) and instead stomp over other peoples' opinions (many of which are validated at top-level play) and lay down your own law. Now you act incredulous and martyr when people give you flak for it.
Edit:
Heading to sleep now because it's 4:22, may or may not respond further "tomorrow" because I usually stop caring about arguments after I sleep. Really I should just sleep instead of instinctively arguing but it's a bit too late for that now.
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Alright, here we go. I thought some things from my post were implied, but I guess not and I'll go more in depth since you want to pick apart everything I say.
Soulstealer works on Kassadin with the Tears build (primarily Statikk's one) because Kass as a hero is not as reliant on AP to do early-mid game damage (which is where so much of his flexibility originally comes from), allowing for a relatively cheap 1.2k investment in a single AP item, while spending the rest of his meager gold on utility and sustain (Tears and GA, for mana and survival). If things go well, yay, you've got stacks, and you only need 5 stacks to have "break-even" on gold, and up till that point you're reliant on so many other factors with Kassadin anyways. With this sort of item setup, and the sort of playstyle in which you play conservatively and patiently and simply work as a supporting/sniping nuker, it works fine.
True - His damage isn't heavily reliant on AP early, but by spending ~800 on something that does not give you any immediate benefits, you are gimping yourself in the early portion of the midgame with lesser survivability and mana (catalyst) and ability to build a banshees later or go for a RoA. Currently, if you don't do big damage and or provide lots of utility in the midgame as mid AP your team will lose team fights over dragon (as well as being weak in lane against other strong AP carries like brand). An 800 gold gimp on a hero that is already struggling before he really ramps up is not a good ideal. It's not just the cost of the mejais you are losing - You will most likely lose farm and map control because you cannot carry your weight against their AP mid. Even if you do get ~5 stacks, you give up too much control with mejais. Alternatively if you built a catalyst/tear, you would have more map mobility with more mana, be more durable in team fights allowing you to ult onto them to do more damage, ETC. A build without catalyst like you said is more of a sniper build, which really relies on your teammates doing the brunt of the work.
2) Kassadin's item flexibility largely comes from the fact that there are 3 distinct playstyles, although I dislike the 3rd (my own) because jumper heroes can wear you down too fast. Most of his stuff for the good players is reactive, unless you are doing statikk and vulture builds. I do mention the vulture build below though because that's what I consider the norm these days, which is the Pstone -> Cata (or skip Pstone, not sure how the AP matchup works these days, and you might need to shift back and forth depending on which AP hero you're against) into Deathcap into random other standard AP carry stuff. This is all very standard. For any AP hero.
People are being nice and not jumping on you (beyond Shake's little quip) about Tears -> Boots -> Cata because they're being kind to what works for you and aren't jumping on a different strat like you are. For my part, I find it incredulous that you can get Tears on Kass before Cata because he's a melee hero, and takes damage against any competent opponent every time he goes to get some moolah. But hey, if it works for you, it works for you. See, I'm being flexible here and not trashing on someone else's build, even though I really could.
Personally I have not tried the philosopher's stone build myself. While I could see the health/mana regen being very useful in lane, I feel it would delay your core too much. Your ultimate, a silence, a slow, and a few potions should be sufficient to keep you alive in the ~lvl6 to ~lvl10 range. (I'd also like to note AGAIN that I posted my item build because someone also recommended a fast archangels).
You could get cata or tears first - It's preference - The reason I had tears listed first was because I'd rather have tears + boots + pots rather than just cata - Catalyst is quite a bit more expensive than tears and you need to be dodging lots of skillshots mid against the popular AP lineup that is so prevalent these days. Also, while kassadin is melee you will have your ult to get out of sticky situations and silence the opponent to prevent a lot of the harrass that is to come your way from the mid heroes, so catalyst isnt really necessary until you start getting in the more engaging battles (dragon).
3) I hate people posting regurgitation because it means it's yet another person who didn't just read the freaking OP (holds true for any thread), and it's especially annoying when they come in acting like it's the new, best way to play the hero when it's absolutely nothing new.
Did read the post.
Like the above, and as with all AP casters, these are also up to the playstyle, matchup, and sometimes even the opening item of the player. For example, if you're intending to do MPen cheese (Sorc+Haunt) then mass MPen is obviously a good choice. If you're running against low-MR opponents and intending to win with Q, then flat AP quints can be good. MSpd quints are good for playing the footsies game. etc.etc.
You listed a mpen cheese, and then two vague references to some quints. I laid out a runeset page that is standard for almost all AP carries and works well for kass as well.
These are very much up to the playstyle, the matchup, and the opening item. For example, if you intend to open PStone, then you don't need SoS as much, unless you're going for a heavy attrition fight (ie. against a good Karthus, Malz, etc.) in which case every little bit may, or may not, help. On the flipside the 15% magic pen is quite nice on him now considering how you want to do as much damage as possible (how about that!). Others still argue that in order to stay in lane you want to have 21 defense, to mitigate as much damage as possible.
Generic Teleport/Flash 0/9/21 Caster
While you do imply 9/0/21 by saying you don't need SoS, you never explicitly say it. Also, there is some synergy in my build with my masteries in that the CDR from offense works will with the plentiful mana pool you will have. Also you post the 0/9/21 alternative which is better sustain but less damage. I posted my preference (and the one that I see most commonly) 9/0/21.
I see a lot of misinformation in this thread, so hopefully I can set some of you guys on the right path.
I'll be damned for trying to give people a build that works for me (and some players from streams I've watched) Also, where in my post did I claim credit? Where in my post did I say, MINE MINE MINE, my build, this is innovative, etcetc? I made some recommendations and tried stressing the importance of going even in the early levels against your opponent in lane because that's when it will be toughest (when auto attacks are most devastating) which has been grossly exaggerated by you as:
"hey if you stomp X shit player or X AP hero you can farm up a storm and miraculously carry just because Kassadin with farm is pretty fucking OP." Hey, newsflash. Everyone knows this.
When in reality I said nothing of the sort and I actually have useful information in my post.
I mean you say one thing and say the other. You attempt to say that you respect the opinions, but then drop this wonderboy. Show nested quote +Edit: And your OP implies a lot more flexibility in his build than there actually is. If you want to play kassadin non-troll style, he's pretty rigid in terms of how he has to be built in order to make up for the fact that he is a melee caster.
Don't get me wrong, there are lots of ways to play Kassadin. Then there are very very few ways to play him competitively - That's what my post was trying to outline - imo, the most effective way to play him. Why do you feel the need to exaggerate everything I say? Obviously Kass has traits that make him very vulnerable in certain areas, so he needs to be played a certain way in order to be effective.
For example:
Have shifted around, in part because of play, and partly because of various changes and nerfs. Now it is up to playstyle and matchup. The #1 thing to keep in mind though is survivability. You want to have as many outs as you can, because for Kassadin, you have an In for every Out, and so the latter is really your #1 issue. The other skill really is up to playstyle, as I've seen stuff ranging from Clarity to Clairvoyance to Teleport to another Escape to Ignite to Exhaust to whatever. Typical AP hero flexibility.
Clarity? CV?
If you want to play him in any kind of serious game, you can't run those summoners. You need ignite for the burst, and flash because it's... flash. And... AP heroes don't really have much flexibility in summoners. They almost always (pretty much always) go ignite/flash.
TLDR: Maybe I should have quoted the parts of the posts I was responding to earlier. I read the thread and I saw some things I majorly disagreed with and I put together a concise post that contains the most common (and in my opinion, effective) way to play Kassadin. You come into the thread, outraged at my post as if it contained NOTHING new and saying that I am basically stating the obvious while not addressing his weaknesses, while I actually do (the item/runes/masteries speak for themselves). You reference weaknesses from a metagame that has already passed that's not applicable if you pick him at the right time (one of the last picks) and then scold me for not talking about it? I have no responsibility to make an all comprehensive post about Kassadin. I wanted my initial post to be something someone could look at, try out, and test to see if he/she liked it. As for your high level play of Kass with the philo build and the mejai build, I'd be very interested in seeing those replays given that they are fairly recent. I act incredulous and martyr? You've been the one walking over me the entire time when there is substance in my posts that you fail to recognize.
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Where in my post did I say, MINE MINE MINE, my build, this is innovative, etcetc?
Then there are very very few ways to play him competitively - That's what my post was trying to outline - imo, the most effective way to play him.
You are very clearly locked into a playstyle and gimping yourself. There's a reason why Uta played tank Kassadin at just as good a level as all the Korean vulture Kassadin players, but you're being too narrow minded to see that.
outraged at my post as if it contained NOTHING new and saying that I am basically stating the obvious while not addressing his weaknesses
It didn't. Really, there's nothing special or valuable about the content you posted whatsoever. It's common knowledge that has been debated and discussed already in this thread and the previous one.
You reference weaknesses from a metagame that has already passed
The fact that you think it's an issue of metagame makes me laugh.
Just take a step back and look at what you've posted - it's a standard build with a weird build order (tear boots cata really?); and you came in (and still are) parading it as if it's the end all be all for playing Kassadin at a "high level". THERE IS NOTHING NEW ABOUT YOUR BUILD.
The only part where your posts started to get somewhat interesting is:
not applicable if you pick him at the right time (one of the last picks)
But then you dropped the soap and went back to parading your ego. If you want to have a constructive discussion instead of puffing up your ego, you might put out your thoughts on that.
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You are very clearly locked into a playstyle and gimping yourself. There's a reason why Uta played tank Kassadin at just as good a level as all the Korean vulture Kassadin players, but you're being too narrow minded to see that.
Gimping myself as well as the other few Kassadin players I still see these days playing at a high level - Okay, that makes sense. You call me narrow minded, I say it works. I've personally never seen Uta's Kassadin before, but I am genuinely interested.
It didn't. Really, there's nothing special or valuable about the content you posted whatsoever. It's common knowledge that has been debated and discussed already in this thread and the previous one.
I've already quoted and posted information that has not been mentioned in this thread (not sure about previous thread, I haven't read through that one). And while I do agree it is more or less common sense to higher level players, with people discussing fast archangels as an option, it then doesn't appear so obvious.
The fact that you think it's an issue of metagame makes me laugh.
Just take a step back and look at what you've posted - it's a standard build with a weird build order (tear boots cata really?); and you came in (and still are) parading it as if it's the end all be all for playing Kassadin at a "high level". THERE IS NOTHING NEW ABOUT YOUR BUILD.
The only part where your posts started to get somewhat interesting is:
The fact that you don't think the metagame has affected Kassadin makes me laugh. The current conditions favor Kassadin more (the AP mid rather than AD). And I never stated that this is the ONLY POSSIBLE way to play kass, but I believe it is the best style currently and I haven't seen any footage proving otherwise.
The funny part to me is where you said this part of my post
not applicable if you pick him at the right time (one of the last picks)
is actually quite funny. It's common sense. Also funny that you talk about my ego, when Southlight comes in here like he owns the forums (he is the OP, which is why I didn't really bring it up) but then criticizes me for posting common information when people are still "experimenting" with fast archangels and mejais.
Regardless, it is clear I am not welcome here. After my posts with absolute no substance and intense ego, I will take my leave. However sarcastic my last statement was, I sincerely apologize for for causing a ruckus in your thread, however relevant I feel my input was. It was never my intention to martyr myself, I never thought that there would be such a scene caused by me posting a relatively basic setup in this thread that I didn't really see much discussion over and may have contained some things that have already been stated vaguely by other posters. If there is anything more that you still have left to say to me (maybe a tank kassadin vod or something interesting of that sort), then I'd appreciate it if you PM'd me as I would not see the message otherwise.
Cheers.
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Looking at your post history I assume you don't have a grasp of the history of this subforum. It's pretty old. And I'm sure most of the community here has seen builds like yours a million gazillion times before, so your post is really meaningless. It's like your guide should be dated March 10, 2011, instead of Sept 16. Not trying to bash, just trying to give the perspective of a person that's been on this subforum for a while.
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On September 16 2011 16:36 Southlight wrote:
He's brutal to pick first pick because if the other team is any smart they'll simply slide a ranged AD or something at you, and you're fucked again because 20 minutes into the game you're staring at Kassadin: 70 CS Insert Random Ranged AD: 250 CS and they'll just have a bruiser or lame-o tank top like Singed with a similar issue. He's a fine counterpick, obviously, but that has never been refuted, and I even posted following the recent patch that he's just back to curbstomping AP heroes and nothing more, nothing less. But again, when you curbstomp an AP hero and get farm up the ass it hardly matters what you build because you're Kassadin, one of the most aggravating carry heroes in the game if he can actually managed to get farm without giving his opponent 15+ minutes of superior free farm.
I don't know if US is different but on EU people are so fixed on the 'metagame' that you will have an AP hero mid 98% of the time no matter what. Can't speak for super high elo tho, maybe people are smarter up there.
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In theory your jungler can gank for you, pretty hard for the enemy to play super aggressive early if theres a threat of being ganked.
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On September 16 2011 19:01 Woony wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 16:36 Southlight wrote:
He's brutal to pick first pick because if the other team is any smart they'll simply slide a ranged AD or something at you, and you're fucked again because 20 minutes into the game you're staring at Kassadin: 70 CS Insert Random Ranged AD: 250 CS and they'll just have a bruiser or lame-o tank top like Singed with a similar issue. He's a fine counterpick, obviously, but that has never been refuted, and I even posted following the recent patch that he's just back to curbstomping AP heroes and nothing more, nothing less. But again, when you curbstomp an AP hero and get farm up the ass it hardly matters what you build because you're Kassadin, one of the most aggravating carry heroes in the game if he can actually managed to get farm without giving his opponent 15+ minutes of superior free farm. I don't know if US is different but on EU people are so fixed on the 'metagame' that you will have an AP hero mid 98% of the time no matter what. Can't speak for super high elo tho, maybe people are smarter up there.
at high elo people counter pick you anyways, as in if someone does Udyr they swain etc
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On September 16 2011 16:53 marvin. wrote:
I'm not really sure where your rage comes from still.
It comes from the tears of the innocent that he has been feeding off of since LoL was released, growing steadily until one day the rage will take over the world!
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EPT
