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[Champion] Kassadin

Forum Index > LoL Strategy
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Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11767 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-16 21:19:11
July 19 2011 17:40 GMT
#1
[image loading]
Kassadin the Void Walker

+ Show Spoiler [patch notes] +
V1.0.0.125
* Void Stone magic damage reduction increased to 15% from 10%
* Null Sphere missile speed increased to 1400 from 1150
* Nether Blade base damage increased to 30/45/60/75/90 from 20/30/40/50/60

V1.0.0.120:

* Nether Blade Nether Blade
o Passive mana restore increased at earlier ranks to 8/11/14/17/20 from 4/8/12/16/20
o Active changed to 20/30/40/50/60 (+0.15 ability power) bonus magic damage dealt on hit instead of 7/15/25/38/50 armor penetration

V1.0.0.115:

* Fixed a bug where the visual for Force Pulse Force Pulse occasionally wouldn't align with the direction cast.

V1.0.0.113:

* Force Pulse Force Pulse:
o Damage reduced to 60/115/170/225/280 from 60/120/180/240/300.
o Ability power ratio reduced to 0.7 from 0.8.
o Cooldown increased to 6 seconds from 5.
* Riftwalk Riftwalk ability power ratio increased to 0.5 from 0.4.
* Void Stone Void Stone damage reduction reduced to 10% from 15%.

V1.0.0.103:

* Nether Blade Nether Blade cooldown reduced to 12 from 15.

V1.0.0.101:

* Nether Blade Nether Blade mana cost reduced to 25 at all ranks from 30/40/50/60/70.
* Riftwalk Riftwalk:
o It no longer shows cast particles over fog of war.
o It now leaves a buff showing the duration of the increased cost and damage of subsequent casts.

V1.0.0.100:

* Riftwalk Riftwalk can no longer be cast while rooted.
* Nether Blade Nether Blade's level up tooltip now correctly states the increased mana cost.

V1.0.0.99:

* Stats:
o Attack range increased to 125 from 120.
o Magic resistance gained per level increased to 1.25 from 0.

V1.0.0.96:

* Nether Blade Nether Blade has been redesigned:
o Passive: the mana drain component removed and replaced with a flat 4/8/12/16/20 mana restore on hit. This effect returns triple the mana against champions.
o Active: Kassadin gains 7/15/25/38/50 armor penetration for 5 seconds.
+ 15 second cooldown.
+ 30/40/50/60/70 mana cost.
+ Activating this ability counts as a spell cast for the purposes of Force Pulse Force Pulse.
* Null Sphere Null Sphere projectile speed increased to 1150 from 900.
* Void Stone Void Stone:
o The attack speed effect now stacks and renews instead of being replaced on spell impact.
o Duration lowered to 4 seconds from 5 seconds.

V1.0.0.70:

* Void Stone Void Stone now applies an additive attack speed boost, rather than multiplicative.

V1.0.0.61:

* Force Pulse Force Pulse ability power ratio reduced to 0.8 from 1.


+ Show Spoiler [Stats] +

Health 433 (+78)
Mana 230 (+45)
Damage 50.6 (+3.9)
Attack Speed 0.638 (+3.7%)
Range 125
Health Regen. 6.95 (+0.5)
Mana Regen. 4.4 (+0.4)
Armor 14 (+3.2)
Magic Res. 30 (+1.25)
Mov. Speed 315

[image loading]
Void Stone (Innate): Kassadin takes 10% reduced magic damage and transforms this damage into bonus attack speed. This effect lasts up to 4 seconds.

[image loading]
Null Sphere (Active): Kassadin fires an ethereal bolt of void energy, dealing magic damage and silencing the target for a few seconds.

* Cooldown: 9 seconds
* Range: 700

Cost: 70 / 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 mana

Magic Damage: 80 / 130 / 180 / 230 / 280 (+0.7 per ability power)

Silence Duration: 1 / 1.4 / 1.8 / 2.2 / 2.6 second(s)

[image loading]
Nether Blade (Passive): Kassadin's melee attacks restore mana. This effect returns triple the mana against champions. Mana Restored: 8 / 11 / 14 / 17 / 20
(Active): Kassadin's normal attacks deal bonus magic damage for 5 seconds.

* Cost: 25 mana
* Cooldown: 12 seconds

Magic Damage: 20 / 30 / 40 / 50 / 60 (+0.15 per ability power)

[image loading]
Force Pulse (Active): Kassadin draws energy from spells cast in his vicinity, gaining a charge whenever a spell is cast near him, including his own spells. Upon reaching 6 charges, Kassadin can use Force Pulse to deal magic damage and slow enemies in a cone in front of him for 3 seconds.

* Cost: 80 mana
* Cooldown: 6 seconds
* Range: 400
* Cone Width: 90º

Magic Damage: 60 / 115 / 170 / 225 / 280 (+0.7 per ability power)

Slow: 30 / 35 / 40 / 45 / 50 %

[image loading]
Riftwalk (Active): Kassadin teleports to a nearby location, dealing magic damage to surrounding enemy units. Each subsequent Riftwalk in the next 7 seconds costs 100 additional mana and deals additional damage. The cost and damage can stack up to 10 times.

* Cost: 100 mana
* Range: 400
* Radius of Damage AoE: 150

Cooldown: 6 / 5 / 4 seconds

Magic Damage: 60 / 90 / 120 (+0.5 per ability power)

Additional Damage: 60 / 90 / 120


A lot of how I used to play him got nullified by new heroes and a brutal 1 second nerf on his E. It means his efficacy in forcing fights got weakened (due to being unable to near-perma-slow people). The masses of new heroes means his slow isn't as effective in preventing incoming damage, which is brutal because his strength (even now) is his durability. Heroes like Jarvan seem specifically to counter him completely, with multiple jumps. His weak laning against ranged DPS got exposed by the rise of the DBlade stack strat. He's seeing a bit of a come-back now as more and more people bring AP heroes to solo lanes (a matchup he dominates) but otherwise he's been very much cornered to the same spot that Veigar once was - limited to an AP counterpick. The old Tankassadin playstyle simply doesn't work anymore, as it's impossible to withstand flurries of jumping heroes; his base survivability isn't strong enough.

Currently the two main playstyles are GJ's Vulture Kassadin and statikk's ToG/SS/GA Kassadin. I can't tell you which is stronger, or which is more consistently viable, except that they both work when the game is right.

Masteries
These are very much up to the playstyle, the matchup, and the opening item. For example, if you intend to open PStone, then you don't need SoS as much, unless you're going for a heavy attrition fight (ie. against a good Karthus, Malz, etc.) in which case every little bit may, or may not, help. On the flipside the 15% magic pen is quite nice on him now considering how you want to do as much damage as possible (how about that!). Others still argue that in order to stay in lane you want to have 21 defense, to mitigate as much damage as possible.
Generic Teleport/Flash 0/9/21 Caster

Runes
Like the above, and as with all AP casters, these are also up to the playstyle, matchup, and sometimes even the opening item of the player. For example, if you're intending to do MPen cheese (Sorc+Haunt) then mass MPen is obviously a good choice. If you're running against low-MR opponents and intending to win with Q, then flat AP quints can be good. MSpd quints are good for playing the footsies game. etc.etc.

Summoners
Have shifted around, in part because of play, and partly because of various changes and nerfs. Now it is up to playstyle and matchup. The #1 thing to keep in mind though is survivability. You want to have as many outs as you can, because for Kassadin, you have an In for every Out, and so the latter is really your #1 issue. The other skill really is up to playstyle, as I've seen stuff ranging from Clarity to Clairvoyance to Teleport to another Escape to Ignite to Exhaust to whatever. Typical AP hero flexibility.

Skill order
Has remained mostly the same, especially with the buff to mana gain on W making it more favored (although you'll notice I and most others have taken the early W since the rework anyways). QWQEQR. This is because Q is phenomenal for laning power, and is also a stronger disable (silence duration increase) than the snare, which gets stronger but the duration remains the same, and as said tends to not be very useful against jumpers. You can take the E if you favor the AoE damage, esp. in 2v2 lane, but otherwise I would really not recommend it, unless you're cheesing some spellblock matchup (ie. Sivir).

Play and Items
For clarification purposes, please, if you're going to come and talk about item builds, read the spoilered previous OP below. Most of it still holds true, as concepts of "what people think about" when they buy seemingly random items. I re-wrote the OP because the tankassadin build struggles mightily these days and isn't as dominant. It's still viable, but it's anyone's guess how much more viable it is than the two primary builds you see. And those are just core items anyways.

Unfortunately his overall flexibility has been dumbed down due to his inability to God-Mode. He's still brutally efficient late-game due to his outs and re-positioning (although he still suffers heavily against ranged DPS). Nowadays you'll see most Kassadins weather the storm for the first 20 minutes and then start kicking in. You play him like the Katarinas and Melee DPSs of the world. Wait a bit, jump in, nuke someone, gtfo, rinse repeat for the duration of the fight, always with an eye on staying alive at all costs.

You'll generally see a Regrowth opening, although brave souls have opened Sapphire (depending on matchup). Either way the goal is to hit Pstone -> Cata or straight Cata, then standard AP setup involving Deathcap etc.

They say you can also open boots+3pots, especially if against a skillshotter.

Statikk's build involves a very fast Tears (if sidelane straight tears, if solo probably cata->tears, although I believe he still usually skips the Cata because he is brave like that) into Soulstealer into survivability (usually GA), in an effort to snowball using SS (cheap high-AP high-reward item) and keeping it alive, being mindful of how difficult it often is to farm as Kassadin early-game. This gives him threat power with roughly 2000 gold + boots, which is quite nice.

It behooves you to whore blue buff. Kassadin is a mana-guzzling bum. He's not at the absolute top of the hierarchy with wanting blue buff, as you can definitely build around it to a certain extent, but you definitely feel stronger with it. Heroes that're probably better with it include Anivia, Swain, etc. the heroes that have a strong DPS-type channel.

Boots
Always a major topic of discussion; what Nikes you'll wear.
A lot of people get Sorc but I think it's an overrated item unless you're hitting them really early (esp for its cost) - in general for AP casters I feel you should only go Sorc if you're determining that the 20 MPen is worth as much as a Blasting Wand, as they have similar costs. Otherwise you're much better off running else. Ionian is a nice item because you can hit high CDR with just Ionian + Blue, and his ult CD is deceptively long from level 6-10. Also it doesn't hurt to spam your disables more often.
Otherwise I'd recommend Treads for the obvious survival.

Also, carry-over from the previous thread:
Dinky section on abusing Q
Because I love having the freedom of an OP where I can add sections at will.

It occurred to me a lot of people, both for and against Kassadin, don't realize the most douchey thing Kassadin does that wins lanes if you're on top of your game. Abusing the fact that he has like a 0.1 cast time, if you're dancing, then one thing you can do is time your "turn" just at outside reach; this leads you to poke your sword out and out flies pew pew lasersphere of OP-ness. But if you've clicked back, he instantly turns around and runs with hardly a hitch - this means the other player had to have responded FASTER than you. The toughest part about this is timing your in-and-out so that your Q radius barely outreaches their range, but if you're on top of your game anyone with less range cannot hit you.

Takes skill, and I myself am inconsistent at it (I have good days and bad days). But if you really want to master Kassadin this is your #1 priority (#2 being spacing E, #3 being last-hitting).

Tips n' tricks
Wall-jumping
It's not intuitive if you've used Flash and been denied, but for whatever reason Kassadin's R works slightly differently. As opposed to preventing the wall-jump if you don't have enough distance, Riftwalk has a tendency to PUSH you across if you lack the distance. This means you can actually jump hilarious wall distances that otherwise don't really make much sense. For example the wall near mid lane, the one with the little corridor that people sometimes use to sneak up on mid-laners from behind (when their focus is on the river bushes)? If you jump from mid lane toward golem, you can actually travel a fair distance along it and get pushed out on the side. So if your jump will only take you 2/3 the wall's thickness, give it a shot - most of the time you'll find yourself on your way to freedom.

Fountain Rift into Teleport
Charge up Rift Stacks in fountain, teleport, and kill someone. 'Nuff said.

Charging Pulse with W
Really shouldn't be in this section, but people tend to forget that W has an active, and so you should be using it to charge up Force Pulse like people charge Annie's stun with Molten Shield. It's cheap, and saves you a lot of time, especially if you're running toward a creepwave and want to gib it with an R->E.

+ Show Spoiler [previous thread] +
On November 06 2010 07:25 Southlight wrote:
He's a poking initiating nuking snarebot, that can also get anywhere he wants to ward (pretty safe warding) and can push lanes/towers like a boss. There's almost nothing you can't do with Kassadin, so this is entirely your playstyle. I play him as a tanky initiating poking snarebot, generally de-prioritizing actual damage output (hence not getting ZRing as fast as people like GJ) - most people don't, they play him like this whonky terrible-burst (only two nukes) nuking vulture but hey, whatever floats your boat as long as it works.

Different playstyles include my Tankassadin, Grandjudge's Vulture Kassadin, DOGkaiser's DPS Kassadin, and statikk's SS/GA/Clarity Kassadin, among many, many others others (Eu DFG Kassadin is also a playstyle, although I think it's a horrible one and only works against bad players/team comps). Especially true when you consider that Kassadin is a highly flexible hero with a strong base selection of spells and a relatively high ceiling for potential (although I still maintain ranged DPS > him, especially teams that babysit their ranged DPS). Knock yourself out, the "line of thought" posted first below (I'll add other stuff as people post them) is my tankassadin and is (as mentioned) pretty different from most players.

Also, sorry for most of this being copy paste mish-mash from the doomed thread and the guide I wrote months ago. Nothing has changed since I wrote my line-of-thought guide (except for W getting shorter cooldown lol) so it's still 100% applicable.

Masteries

0/9/21 non-negotiable. He needs the summoner spells (esp. Cleanse), he needs buff duration, he needs meditation, and he needs SoS.

Runes

You have flexibility here based on your preference. I run MPen Quints and Marks, mana regen per level Seals, and AP per level Glyphs, with one MPen Glyph to let me hit 15 MPen. Some people like having Flat AP Quints instead.

Skill order and play

This is gonna be long and more of an essay than a clear-and-cut guide, and maybe someone (like Neo) will pop it and change my mind on a few things etc. but this is the sort of "flowchart" I follow when I play Kassadin.

Ideally you want a solo lane, IMO, because he's a very dominating solo hero (he plays a bit like Pantheon) and you really want the level advantage to hit 9 ASAP, 9-13 is like the sweet spot for Kassadin because your nukes begin to hit their max firepower, which is important because he only really has two.

Soloing is relatively simple and yet not. For the most part your primary spell is going to be Q, due to its relatively low cost for its damage. Beyond that, a lot depends on who you're facing.

Against most physical DPS you're going to do something like Q W Q E Q, although in some rare cases you may go Q W Q W Q instead (I did it against Kayle) - I think I ended up doing double W because I didn't expect anyone to come (it's annoying ganking Kayle) and I wanted to overwhelm the Kayle with Q spam to supercede her heal - that's where the mana came in. And if she ever tried to stand and fight the higher armor pen let me actually outdamage her. Against Sivir I do something like Q W Q E, I want that early W to pop off the shield and actually land a good Q. One E I found was enough to outdamage her in a standing fight. Against Morgana I just massed Q and W for the same reason as Kayle - I wanted to pound down her shield and out-last her mana-wise. However if you're against someone with Clarity and/or Teleport you switch into farming mode, because you can't outlast, etc.

In the rare circumstance you're 1v2 against two melee, or are 1v1 against a melee, you can raise E over Q, as E scales better (kind of like Annie's W > Q), and E is a much more important spell in teamfights anyways. Even if I open with a stronger Q most of the time I stop at like level 3 Q and just pump E to bring it to 5 ASAP, as it's crucial for teamfights, given that it cools down almost twice as fast and is AoE.

In a 2v2 you're almost always going to level E over Q, and for the most part you ignore W altogether (as is the case against two melee usually) because you're not gonna need that mana return as desperately. It kinda depends on the lane, though, sometimes you'll find it beneficial to grab an early W for extra mana help and to smack people back if they try standing up to you. Always remember that grabbing a level of W is a weaker Q or E, and by relation ~30 less damage every harassment cycle, which adds up really fast. Only get it if you're absolutely certain you just want to whack them down via attrition, because W is largely useless in teamfights. It's hard for me to tell you how exactly I know when to get W, because I usually do it by instinct. Just try to look at your mana expenditure, damage output, lasting power, etc. and try to plot out what you need. It's not super complex but if you mess up it can slow you down a lot.

I favor Cleanse/Ghost. Because of the way you position yourself, and who you tend to go after, you end up being public enemy #1 for a significant amount of time. Between an Annie standing in the back and a Kassadin teleporting into your team to fuck up the carry, who do you think is the easier, and more urgent target? Yeah, the Kassadin. If you play REALLY careful you can get away with not having Cleanse against minimal CC, but I've found I get into the habit of relying on it, and die to the only CC on their team (Rammus taunt) etc.

A lot of people like Clarity, but I think if you're in a solo lane W can trump Clarity, especially if you land a few champion hits, so it's much more of a 2v2 domination spell. I have trouble using it, though, because I'm really stingy with spellcasting, so that's going to be up to player comfort with Clarity. It's nice to have the odd time that you jump too much and need one more bit of juice to escape etc.

I've not taken Ignite because I feel like for the most part Kassadin himself is like an Ignite - if there's a weak target he can usually get them anyways, especially if you take Cleanse.

Flash is nice, but it's about distance covered for me - Ghost will save you in places Flash can't, and vice versa. I'm more comfortable with Ghost, and have randomly died because I didn't realize Flash wouldn't save me in a situation Ghost would, etc.

I run 0/9(SoS)/21 Masteries, reason being that I love Meditate, faster cleanse (from uti21), and the extended neutral buff duration. Because of his nature as a spellcast harasser creep hits usually aren't that big of a deal, anyways. 15% magic pen is overrated IMO, the 3% cooldown is nice but not really worth the 9/0, so get the 6 armor, MR, and some decent hp regen. Better than nothing, anyways.

Item builds, wow I go all over the place here. The only real constants are that I open Doran's Shield + health pot, and I make Catalyst and Sorc Boots, unless it's late and I find I'm just being CC'd to death (then I'll switch to Merc, especially once I've finished Void). In a solo lane you have, if played well or simply better than the bad opponent, been able to farm well due to your OP Q (mm, tears). After Cata, it's really up to whatever you want to do, ala the playstyles I listed way at the beginning of the game, or whatever else you want. Cata's EHP is simply ridiculous, and its level-up effect basically wins you lanes. I have seen some people double-Cata because he's not as reliant on AP, and I've also seem some very good Kass players open Banshee first. Especially if there's a mirror-match - although this worry is obviously not for ranked games though.

I used to rush Soulstealer, but it's risky business. My typical Kass build sidelane Soulstealer into Guardian Angel into Void Staff, but depending on the game I've ended up with weird stuff like 4x Ring into Tear into Abyssal. He's very flexible, and doesn't need much money to dominate the time period he dominates (~level 9 to level 14), and after that it's just a matter of staving off father time via gold. Even with 20 stacks you'll find you just can't keep up late-game, so you're just a tanky support hero. You really, really want to end games in under 35 with Kassadin if you want to remain a relevant nuking carry.

Items I've been known to use:
Tear/Arch
NLR/Zhon
Soulstealer
Leviathan
GA
Abyssal Scepter (for MR)
Void Staff
Heart of Gold
Aegis of the Legion
Sheen (for mana)/Lichbane (mana + MR + proc)
Haunting Guise
Rylai

Positionally he's got some bizarre issues of having one of the most accessible escape/chase spells (that's expensive), a really long-range poke/silence, and an absurdly short-range aoe/poke/snare. What you'll find is that you have to have a really good mental image of the effective ranges of different heroes, and you also find that you chase/engage on foot (instead of teleporting) a lot, unless you're trying to surprise people or needing to cover ground in a hurry. People, in turn, will try to stay a whole screen away from you to force you to teleport for initiation - this lets them get a countermove on you, where you teleport, snare, but they just jump at you, and you've got seconds until your teleport out. His most effective spell is Force Pulse, it's your bread and butter, and it's really tough to use. If you can get good at spacing for Pulse, and can position yourself to constant catch multiple enemies (bonus points if they're squishies) during teamfights, you're on your way to abusing one of the nastiest spells in the game. On the other hand if you're getting ripped apart trying to space it, or die misplacing yourself, etc. then you'll feel pretty weak.

One of the tricks I use a lot initiating is to teleport in just into range, pulse, and ghost backwards, or I'll ghost up, pulse, and teleport a half-step away so that if they're still running I'll have a charged pulse and be able to teleport up to catch them again. If they're running Kassadin has a field day because he can port, pulse, and smack them with autoattack. And in teamfight skirmishes as you're pushing a tower, you're almost always at the front, poking with Q, harassing with E whenever you get the chance, and just being a general nuisance maximizing your damage output

For everything else, check out the spellcaster thread I'm working on :D /end shameless self plug for something that's not even REMOTELY close to done. But that's okay.

Dinky section on abusing Q
Because I love having the freedom of an OP where I can add sections at will.

It occurred to me a lot of people, both for and against Kassadin, don't realize the most douchey thing Kassadin does that wins lanes if you're on top of your game. Abusing the fact that he has like a 0.1 cast time, if you're dancing, then one thing you can do is time your "turn" just at outside reach; this leads you to poke your sword out and out flies pew pew lasersphere of OP-ness. But if you've clicked back, he instantly turns around and runs with hardly a hitch - this means the other player had to have responded FASTER than you. The toughest part about this is timing your in-and-out so that your Q radius barely outreaches their range, but if you're on top of your game anyone with less range cannot hit you.

Takes skill, and I myself am inconsistent at it (I have good days and bad days). But if you really want to master Kassadin this is your #1 priority (#2 being spacing E, #3 being last-hitting).

Afterward

Sorry if this doesn't seem very absolute a guide. I hate stamping my foot down and saying PLAY THIS WAY, because that leads to flow-charty drones that suck at the first sign of strange-ness (and yes strange things happen in this game). I'll encourage people to do something, state my reasons, and let them decide, or discourage something, etc. but I really hate going THIS IS WHAT YOU DO, especially on a flexible hero like Kassadin where evidently going DPS works okay for some people like DOGKaiser, bless his heart. I can't fathom doing it. I just don't play in a structured enough way to write a guide that's much more than a patchwork of "things I think about" as I buy items/level-up skills/etc. over the course of a game.

Hopefully the OP gives you a good idea of how to approach him, though, and the pros and cons of different items and skill builds, and lets you think about how you can take advantage of him the best you can. And if you have any questions we're here to help :D

TL;DR version
Cleanse/Ghost

0/9/21 for SoS/Medi

Q:Mpen
M:Mpen
S:Mreg/lev
G:AP/lev(+1mpen)

QWQEQR
R>Q>E>W

Shield -> Cata -> w/e you want
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
Wala.Revolution
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
7582 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-19 19:01:48
July 19 2011 18:45 GMT
#2
I think Kassadin's jump is probably best in terms of completeness, unlike Trist's which I absolutely abhor or even compared to Corki's or Flash.

Also consider R to jump walls to avoid the more notable ward placements, and to initiate/follow dives from behind towers.

I tend to run flash/ignite because sometimes that flash will save your life pre-6 (esp top lane) if you don't have the coverage and double blinks allows for so many shenanigans. Ignite for its purposes. Other summoners are of course viable as well.

I also agree with getting at least two levels of Q. While E's manacost remain the same, you need the Q levels to trade well in lane. Also the longer silence could be crucial while you may do less damage.

Change to W allows for a little more liberal harassment and since Kass can dominate if the opponent cannot trade as well (especially after level 6) maxing Q is viable and should be considered.
Stuck.
Odds
Profile Joined May 2008
Canada1188 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-19 18:50:52
July 19 2011 18:50 GMT
#3
Great guide. Now you're making me want to try the asshole Kassadin again a few games instead of my homegirl Cassi.

Special note: he really shits on her in lane and everywhere else. I've banned him a few ranked games for this reason. >_>
Odds.633, AM. Plat level currently. Would love more practice partners, add me, let's play!
Attakijing
Profile Joined June 2011
United States693 Posts
July 19 2011 19:17 GMT
#4
patch notes records in OP are amazing. if we could have that for more champions, well it'd be really cool
goldenkrnboi
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States3104 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-19 20:36:56
July 19 2011 19:38 GMT
#5
i'm not sure what Vulture Kassadin is, so i don't know if it's the same thing, but I love kassadin because of his amazing harassment post-6, which i personally call harassadin. as soon as i hit 6, i b home and get a ToG and port back into my lane (which is usually mid). after that non-stop blink right into range, Q, run away, blink in range, Q, run away. ToG helps mitigate the high mana need. unfortunately doesn't work well vs. high sustainers, but it always works for most champs (or maybe it's just cause i'm lowly 1500 elo :[ )

after that it's just standard rift when time's appropriate, fuck shit up, gtfo with a troll face.
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11767 Posts
July 19 2011 21:36 GMT
#6
Vulture Kassadin is a glass-cannony Kassadin that masses AP with Catalyst being the only real survival item, waits out the start of a fight and picks weak people off.
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
July 20 2011 01:29 GMT
#7
Basically, you know how in horror movies you have the tough hunky guy with the flashlight leading a group of terrified-yet-sexy college co-eds through a dark hallway/forest/whatever, and then from a rear-view angle a dark shape suddenly crosses between the camera and the group, and flashlight-guy whips around and swings the flashlight everywhere and doesn't see anything out of the ordinary, but then notices that the pretty, quiet girl that always lagged behind the group a little bit is simply gone without a trace?

Vulture Kassadin is the serial killer that just omnommed the sexy quiet girl.
whole lies with a half smile
bumatlarge
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States4567 Posts
July 20 2011 01:44 GMT
#8
ONE FLASHLIGHT WHAT WERE THEY THINKING!
Together but separate, like oatmeal
goldenkrnboi
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States3104 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-20 03:43:23
July 20 2011 03:43 GMT
#9
On July 20 2011 06:36 Southlight wrote:
Vulture Kassadin is a glass-cannony Kassadin that masses AP with Catalyst being the only real survival item, waits out the start of a fight and picks weak people off.


ok yeah that's basically how i play him. i just think the name Harassadin flows better :3

arnath
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1317 Posts
July 20 2011 06:34 GMT
#10
I feel like Boots + 3 pots is a better opening on him than Regrowth. There are a decent number of matchups that are a LOT easier with boots. Orianna for example - it's basically impossible to dodge her ball without opening boots first.
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17250 Posts
July 20 2011 08:46 GMT
#11
Boots + 3 is pretty standard for any champ that has to lane again low level skill shots.
twitch.tv/cratonz
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11767 Posts
July 20 2011 14:12 GMT
#12
If you position properly I'm fairly sure you should be able to give Orianna a piece of your mind without needing to rely on boots, as her balls takes a while to reach you and she can't follow up with W.
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
clickrush
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Switzerland3257 Posts
July 23 2011 11:27 GMT
#13
About the boots+3 thing: I played kassadin alot lately. I think it is never wrong to open boots because it makes abusing Q's range way easyer. I would even say that you get better and more harassement with boots especially if your opponent has boots as well. 3 pots should suffice to be able to push out at some point and get philo stone and more consumables.

About the boots upgrade: mercs are good ofc. I just found that they dont really fit to the builds you suggest. Both builds rely on scarying the shit out of the opponent you jump and doing as much damage as possible. If you have only mercs, cata and philo for survivability then you have not enough survivability to initiate anything anyways. They can help in specific situations but on the whole they dont fit a build that relies on burst. For example on Akali, mercs are awesome because you rush Rilay's which then scales into her increased HP. On Kass you go heavy AP which scales better with magpen.

Also the sorc vs wand math I dont get. They do not have "about the same cost". Sorcs are significantly cheaper and also give added MS which you should never underestimate on a champ that relies on mobility and range to survive.

That said, I had some success with mercs, roa, dcap. It's a slower build but much more forgivable because of the greater manapool and survivablity. You can actually survive 1 additional nuke or so with this which is nice.

But on the whole I found the Vulture build superiour. So thanks for putting your thoughts on here!

(atm I go boots+3, philo, cata, sorc, dcap, tear and then what i need the most)
oGsMC: Zealot defense, Stalker attack, Sentry forcefieldu forcefieldu, Marauder die die
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17250 Posts
July 24 2011 02:02 GMT
#14
On July 20 2011 23:12 Southlight wrote:
If you position properly I'm fairly sure you should be able to give Orianna a piece of your mind without needing to rely on boots, as her balls takes a while to reach you and she can't follow up with W.

If she just lets her ball chill in the mid you're gonna have a hard time dodging it + she'll probably win in a straight challenge early because of her passive.
twitch.tv/cratonz
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11767 Posts
July 24 2011 03:32 GMT
#15
You're off to one side; she casts it once, hits you, but you should always been prepared for that and always, always attempt to trade Q for Q; assuming you manage this, you'll prevent the W follow-up, and your passive > hers in this case. Also now that you forced the ball to one side, you walk over to the other; now she must either try to land a travel time Q on someone who can play to dodge and is intending to hit her (hence near-max range Q to avoid trade) or she needs to reposition with Q once before she can actually go after you again.
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17250 Posts
July 24 2011 06:15 GMT
#16
I feel like that's a lot easier said than done, since you're forced into melee range in a relatively narrow area, which makes her Q+W a lot easier to hit than yours. If she is just saving it for when you move into to hit something, she's either going to deprive you of CS or get free damage when you go for one.
twitch.tv/cratonz
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11767 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-24 11:08:04
July 24 2011 07:28 GMT
#17
It's the classic mind-games thing (see my Kass vs Malz posts somewhere), you can bait her Q out with the last-hit fake too, and every time she wastes a spell you can punish as Kass with your own Q to drop her; eventually she'll either run out of juice or drop low enough HP that you control the lane and last-hit up. It's standard Kassadin play, you rarely can last hit unimpeded for a decent amount of time, which is why he's the "suffer for 20 minutes and then start carrying" type of hero. It's also the reason why Ori often loses to actually-good Annie players, because they can bait out her Q and land a 100% combo, as opposed to Ori having to skillshot it.

Edit:
Bear in mind obv that I run mspd quints so while it's a marginal increase, I'm faster than base move speed.
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
dignity
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada908 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-29 06:12:11
August 29 2011 06:11 GMT
#18
My brother and I have been experimenting with a tank build for kassadin. This is not actually meant to be a troll build, for reasons that I will list below. This started back before his rift blade change (back then it gave you 50 armor penetration when activated) and that change has given both pros and cons to this build. This build is still experimental but it has given us quite a few good results and so I would like others to test it before I write a full guide to it.

The basic idea with this build starts with your passive, which helps reduce magic damage by 10% (formerly 15%, and once again we were experimenting even before that change). This may be a sought out aspect with the passive, but the second part is what most people overlook. You attack faster the more magic damage you take. This is actually extremely significant so long as you are actually able to take the damage (we have no idea the exact numbers on how much the attack speed/damage is though).

The core of the build consists of Manamune, boots(either merc treads or ninja tabis depending on the situation, which is 99% merc treads), a catalyst, and a glacial shroud. After the core you would finish either a banshees veil or frozen heart depending on if you need mr or armor first. Prefered final items afterwards tend to be a randiums and a force of nature to finish all 6 items. You should have over 200 damage without any damage runes. While you might be building a manamune, we have actually seen an almost even split in your damage done being from physical and magical, which i would explain later. The reason we chose manamune over archangel's scepter when considering what to transform that tear of the goddess into was through testing. Archangel's scepter costs a lot more than a manamune to create in the early game for kassadin, mainly due to how poorly you farm in the laning phase. Manamune also charges the tear of the goddess effect much faster because you can charge through hitting things. Getting more damage rather than ap also allows you to last hit and farm without having to use your mana, which helps conserve kassadins much needed mana pool for when you engage with champions.

For runes, we generally used armor penetration marks, armor/level seals and mr/level glyphs, although that might not be optimal. We are still experimenting and we don't have access to a huge amount of runes.

Masteries would be either a 9/21/0 or 0/21/9 depending on your preference. This is pretty much a normal tank setup in terms of masteries. Summoner skills we have found to be the most optimal(?) are flash and exhaust, since your job is to shut down their carries as a tank.

One thing we noticed with kassadin is that his ultimate is not so much ap dependent, but more mana and time dependent. The more times you are able to hit them with your ultimate, the more damage they take. This goes without saying for any skill or attack, but kassadins ultimate's total damage done in a fight scales exponentially as opposed to linearly. With a tanky build, you can actually stay in a fight for much longer and even have the ability to just get right into the face of their back line, thus doing more damage with your ultimate. His q and e skills would be significantly weaker due to the complete lack of ap, but their disabling properties do not change. You still retain a skill that can silence for just as long and an aoe slow that slows just as much.

In the spoiler would be tips if you have never played kassadin or if you are completely new to this playstyle.
+ Show Spoiler +

The most important part of this build would probably be the play style. During the early game and laning phase, you still play the role of a castor. The items you would get first would primarily be a catalyst and tear along with boots, so depending on your rune and mastery setup you can actually change your build to an ap build, abet one that might not be optimal. As the game progresses and you finish your manamune ( try and get this as soon as safely possible, even skipping your catalyst if you feel it is safe. the faster you finish it the faster you can charge up the mana which gives you a much stronger midgame with this build due to how the size of your mana pool directly scales with your total damage and effectiveness and not just the damage provided by manamune) you would become a hybrid "dps". Going into the midgame, it is extremely important to know your limit (how much damage you can take before you absolutely have to retreat). You would pretty much never be able to kill someone 1v1 unless they have either low mana or have their hp in a low enough range. During this stage of the game, you want to be participating in ganks due to your chasing capabilities and your ability to help chase in the form of slows and silences. As soon as you finish your banshees veil and frozen heart, as long as you are not behind, this would be the point in the game when you truly shine. Get/request a blue buff immediately. When engaging any champion, be sure to stack your ultimate to about 2 stacks and then engage with the third blink/ultimate. This is also the point in the game where you should be able to effectively take out their carries 1v1 or even 2v1 (so long as the other person is a support/tank, you can actually kill their carry before they kill you and retreat due to your ultimate and flash). During a team fight, you want to run straight at their carry (which should also be the biggest threat to your team) and proceed to shut him down. If you are getting focused, that is actually a good thing since you can take absurd amounts of damage at this point and if they are hitting you with magic your attack speed will spike, which increases your damage output by a lot. If your hp is dropping too fast however, it might be a good idea to blink/flash out and re-enter the fight once they take their focus off you.

I am going to keep this post at this length since this is getting to the length of a real guide. I would appreciate if people can help test this build as I feel this is truly a usable build. The general idea of how the build works and how to use it should be explained clearly above(hopefully). Feel free to pm me with questions regarding this.
rwrzr
Profile Joined February 2010
United States1980 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-29 07:28:20
August 29 2011 07:26 GMT
#19
I'm going to try tanky style kassadin. I'll get back to you later.

My one successful kassadin game involved cleanse + qss and a lot of roaming.

EDIT:

Also going to try the tanky style with teleport so I can enter the fight full charged!
FADC
dignity
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada908 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-29 07:35:14
August 29 2011 07:32 GMT
#20
We actually thought of using teleport to jump into a fight with 6-9 stacks up but never really put it into practice. Seemed to gimmicky to be worth it.

I think I should have mentioned the skilling order...

R>Q>E>W with one point in w at level 2/4. Getting it at level 2 is quite good simply because you won't have much chances to use E during laning phase so having more sustainable mana for spamming Q might be better.

Also, blinking out of a fight and jumping right back in to lose focus from the enemy team is really effective. This kind of alleviates the need for cleanse unless their team is really cc heavy, which can be fixed with a qss.

Thanks for testing this by the way. I really want others to try this to see if its actually legitimate instead of just opponents reacting poorly to the build.
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