EPT[Champion] Kassadin - Page 12
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
On August 08 2013 00:37 nath wrote: First of all i'm going off the sticky and posting my Kass question here, sorry if i misunderstood, please move if its not appropriate  Hey, I am new to the game, I am not even lvl30 yet on my main (23). But I played dota/sc for years. I am trying to get very good with a few champs first so I can learn most optimally. Kassadin is definitely my best and most played champion overall. I haven't played vs a good Viktor, usually i can survive til 6 and then get favorable trades with REQ, forcing a kill or back before 8. Then i push lane and go gank bottom. This korean Viktor fucking wrecked me pre-6 and even 6-8 (although its due to the former obviously). Outplayed me so hard, although I think my tactics were only slightly off. I usually R+E+Q so i get max damage from pulse (it does more closer up) but his stun got me pretty bad (I assumed he would level laser so i thought i could eat the stun and use the extra AS to kill him...I was horribly wrong...he only had <200 (being generous) hp after my full combo sometimes but killed me). We knew he was korean so my jungler even helped me a lot. he still destroyed mid. My thought is to instead rift where he doesnt expect (putting Viktor into my list of champs where R is used for zoning rather than damage), lowering my nuke damage a tiny bit (for AP's i do like to land close enough to damage them even if its not super predictable exactly where around them I am, the damage i take as a result is usually worth the damage they take from rift even at lvl1 rift). Then IMMEDIATELY Q, lowering my nuke even more (so E doesn't do full damage if he moves back, which he will)...before he can set up his stun field...then E+auto+go back/dodge laser if i can get him mid-range E. or wait to use E next poke. when i dont E i am trying to bait out a defensive stun which seemed to be his go-to for catching me...offensive stun is easy to dodge. Itemwise, I started faerie + 5 + 1 + ward. On first back i could only afford crystals not recipe for catalyst. in this scenario should i get blue crystal + 400g MR item instead? Catalyst is so crucial to my Kass between 6-10 i dont know if i can really afford to delay it but its a thought. also what if i tried to go 4/2 or 3/3 on the potions and spam Q at lvl3 and 5? Midgame i went full MR tank mode and ended up 10/9/8, but we lost and viktor was like 19/4/xx lol. Appreciate any help or thoughts, didnt mean to be rambly. Due to the detail of my post I'd politely ask that only people who know Kass well respond to the details but if anyone wants to drop helpful knowledge its always appreciated E doesn't do more damage closer up, and most of the time unless you know you can get a kill, you should R just close enough to hit with E and Q and then back off. The whole point is that you slow and silence them so that they can't retaliate. Your level 1 R will do like 100 damage. Not at all worth it against the vast majority of champions. Personally I prefer to buy tear on first back, but if you're going straight for catalyst, try to have enough for ruby and sapphire crystal. The only MR items that Kassadin can use are abyssal, and chalice/athene's if you don't get a tear. Flask start is much better than faerie start. It helps you for almost the entire game, saves you gold and you never need to worry about buying potions again. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
Same applies for teamfighting. Assuming you aren't fed, kassadin teamfighting is hovering around an edge, RQE closest person(R only for range), wait for CD's, and then walk back in and start finishing people with stacked riftwalk and EQW. Itemwise, almost always want to build a tear&catalyst first. Kassadin is one of the strongest mid-lategame AP's due to his short cooldowns, extremely high mobility, and scaling. Unless it's a hard lane, it generally is worth banking on the mid-lategame presence that kassadin brings by itemizing towards it. | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
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nath
United States1788 Posts
i meant that i R onto the hero ONLY if its a (squishy) mage, assuming that whatever they throw at me will let me auto them 2-3x (due to slow + AS increase), so i thought the health trade is still in my favor and worth it...but i guess if i trade this way instead it also reduces my need for health pots...which would let me get a couple blue pots or start bottle. also i still feel like catalyst first helps a lot more than tear for ganking sidelanes lvl6-9, and i pick up tear after my first couple of ganks (or ~lvl10 if im unsucessful). if i go bottle start though, then i guess i'd get tear + ruby first back | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
On August 09 2013 00:49 WaveofShadow wrote: I'm a little curious though...its not like Kass charges Tear very quickly at all. Do you want to upgrade to AA as fast as possible for the faster charge or just leave it? It really doesn't take that long, and the extra mana is so useful anyways. Always get RoA after tear, and then depending on the situation, can upgrade to AA right away, or get another item inbetween. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
Otherwise just last hit and harass them with Q E when they come in to trade, you rarely want to riftwalk unless you're going all-in or you're sure it's safe Don't get Rod on Kassadin! Just go full damage and pick your spots better. With the advent of homeguard and better tear I think it's better to just go AA + Deathcap rather than AA + RoA. If you need defense later you should go for GA/Banshees/Zhonyas. Your main priority is to be able to chunk people. Surviving is not that hard if you pick spots and position well. Kass is like Shaco in that you should only be dying (after 6) when you choose to. | ||
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nath
United States1788 Posts
On August 11 2013 05:58 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: I only R to people in lane if I know where the rest of their team is and have flash up and I'm sure the silence will be enough time for me to get out with only minimal damage Otherwise just last hit and harass them with Q E when they come in to trade, you rarely want to riftwalk unless you're going all-in or you're sure it's safe Don't get Rod on Kassadin! Just go full damage and pick your spots better. With the advent of homeguard and better tear I think it's better to just go AA + Deathcap rather than AA + RoA. If you need defense later you should go for GA/Banshees/Zhonyas. Your main priority is to be able to chunk people. Surviving is not that hard if you pick spots and position well. Kass is like Shaco in that you should only be dying (after 6) when you choose to. midgame i feel like i can go way more balls deep with RoA than with a large rod (or blasting wand) if going straight cap. i do get AA and cap after RoA... are you suggesting not even catalyst? straight tear into deathcap? | ||
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On August 09 2013 00:49 WaveofShadow wrote: I'm a little curious though...its not like Kass charges Tear very quickly at all. Do you want to upgrade to AA as fast as possible for the faster charge or just leave it? Kass charges Tear decently quickly. Activating W on cooldown is essentially free and helps a bit. You can also periodically use R to charge if necessary. He's no pre-nerf Jayce/Nid when it comes to charging Tear, but he ca certainly make good use of it. I personally used to favor RoA->Dcap since I felt that getting Tear hurt my mid-game damage a bit too much and I prefer to snowball. Tear's still a super solid choice though. The shield from Seraphs also really helps to mitigate some damage if you Rift in too close or if teh enemy team focuses you. | ||
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IamPryda
United States1186 Posts
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On August 14 2013 05:45 ReachTheSky wrote: Tear/Seraph's is extremely good on Kassadin. It solves your mana problems, Provides you with 120-130 AP late game from just one item and also makes you slightly tankier with the shield(which is a must for Kass IMO). It's pretty much covers every area for kassadin that needs to be addressed during any given game. There's no arguing that Tear/Seraphs is a premier Kassadin lategame item. It's just a question of whether you think getting Tear is worth the tradeoff of not having your NLR/Wand/Hat 700 gold earlier for the early-mid game. I think if you're into the heavy roam/ganking style of play it's probably worth skipping Tear for a faster Hat. Otherwise, not skipping Tear is probably the superior choice. | ||
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
On August 14 2013 06:16 Ryuu314 wrote: There's no arguing that Tear/Seraphs is a premier Kassadin lategame item. It's just a question of whether you think getting Tear is worth the tradeoff of not having your NLR/Wand/Hat 700 gold earlier for the early-mid game. I think if you're into the heavy roam/ganking style of play it's probably worth skipping Tear for a faster Hat. Otherwise, not skipping Tear is probably the superior choice. I also think it depends on the flow of the game as well. If you are snowballing hard early rushing a deathcap may be optimal. If things are a bit more equal the versatility of a seraph's would suit the situation better. | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On August 14 2013 08:15 GolemMadness wrote: Given the incredible cost efficiency of tear/seraph's and the amount of mana Kassadin can burn in team fights, I can't really imagine not getting it. If you go straight for deathcap, what happens if you don't get a blue? I don't think I've ever seen anyone go for a naked dcap without any mana items. At least not with success. Some people go RoA then Dcap and skip Tear. You almost have to get at least one or both of RoA/Tear. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
I just think Rod is too slow and catalyst isn't as strong as it was in s1/s2 after nerfs. AA/Deathcap are my first two items usually but it's usually like Tear -> NLR as first items | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
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