EPTher laneing seems so strong to me because it is super easy to either deny farm or dealing alot of safe/free damage with E and Q is so strong as a disengagement and killing tool as well. I also love how her skills make her a super strong roamer and safe ward-bitch at the same time. getting some ap shouldnt be that hard on her because you stay away from the frontline and can afford only to get shureilas for survivability while with sona, soraka or lulu you would be much closer most of the time to use their set effectively. with some ap i mean a couple drings/mejas/similarly cheap stuff and it felt like it was a ton of damage during ganking phase for a support.
[Champion] Lux - Page 8
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
her laneing seems so strong to me because it is super easy to either deny farm or dealing alot of safe/free damage with E and Q is so strong as a disengagement and killing tool as well. I also love how her skills make her a super strong roamer and safe ward-bitch at the same time. getting some ap shouldnt be that hard on her because you stay away from the frontline and can afford only to get shureilas for survivability while with sona, soraka or lulu you would be much closer most of the time to use their set effectively. with some ap i mean a couple drings/mejas/similarly cheap stuff and it felt like it was a ton of damage during ganking phase for a support. | ||
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Thereisnosaurus
Australia1822 Posts
It's not even like I'm hamstringing my late game, just building my stock of burst late rather than early, so I can really dominate the early/midgame where AP lux is generally pretty meh. | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21242 Posts
On October 09 2012 18:35 Thereisnosaurus wrote: Has anyone else tried an APless start lux? I've been mucking around with opening chalice>catalyst> vest/cloak> grail/roa >etc after watching froggen's anivia play. Lux seems to share many of the same properties as anivia in the sense that she's highly mana dependent, squishy, has incredibly powerful spells with good base values and is a great farmer if she can spam. I've found playing like that early I can push my lane and roam safely, plus have the resources to seriously pressure which ever lane I roam. It's not even like I'm hamstringing my late game, just building my stock of burst late rather than early, so I can really dominate the early/midgame where AP lux is generally pretty meh. you identify most of lux's characteristics and then proceed to suggest doing the exact opposite of what's logical...? you say she has good ratios, so why are you not building ap? unlikely anivia lux doesnt do damage after ~15 minutes without ap because her base numbers are not anivia level, plus she doesn't bring as much utility as anivia. her shield also scales off ap early/midgame is where ap lux is amazing, she has one of the highest level 6 bursts in the game and throughout level 11/13 she can one shot a lot of ppl, butyou need to build ap. in fact, it's her late game where ap lux sucks cause everyone can afford to get hp/mr after getting their damage items and you're not one shotting anyone building chalice cloak catalyst is just going ot make you useless for 20 minutes, and by the time you get ap, you're still useless cause everyone has mr getting like 1 of those 3 items situation to help lane is fine but getting more is just killing yourself her cooldowns are also high enough that you need to be able to devastate with one spell rotation, you cant wait for a second rotation. you're not a sustain caster so high manapool is pointless you just need to get enough regen to get by in lane | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On October 09 2012 17:14 clickrush wrote: I felt that lux initiates even better than sona (my main) simply because she can initate more frequently on a good range. I didn't level shield at all early game to have the maximum available burst. Her shield really only shines in teamfights anyway? having two spammable disables high base damage and range is very rare for supports. lulu kinda does that but has inferiour range. her laneing seems so strong to me because it is super easy to either deny farm or dealing alot of safe/free damage with E and Q is so strong as a disengagement and killing tool as well. I also love how her skills make her a super strong roamer and safe ward-bitch at the same time. getting some ap shouldnt be that hard on her because you stay away from the frontline and can afford only to get shureilas for survivability while with sona, soraka or lulu you would be much closer most of the time to use their set effectively. with some ap i mean a couple drings/mejas/similarly cheap stuff and it felt like it was a ton of damage during ganking phase for a support. Yeah no reason to level w in lane as support Lux. Maybe get a point at 4, but it's possible for you to skip it for more burst. You have a lot of kill potential at 6the with your AD. I still think late game Lux is pretty bad compared to other supports but it isn't total trash and you can probably secure early leads with support Lux relatively easy. Best part of support Lux is using ult to steal enemy blue after you and the AD shove to tower. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On October 09 2012 18:35 Thereisnosaurus wrote: Has anyone else tried an APless start lux? I've been mucking around with opening chalice>catalyst> vest/cloak> grail/roa >etc after watching froggen's anivia play. Lux seems to share many of the same properties as anivia in the sense that she's highly mana dependent, squishy, has incredibly powerful spells with good base values and is a great farmer if she can spam. I've found playing like that early I can push my lane up and roam safely, plus have the resources to seriously pressure which ever lane I roam and be safe against all but the most hardcore enemy plays. It's not even like I'm hamstringing my late game, just building my stock of burst late rather than early, so I can really dominate the early/midgame where AP lux is generally pretty meh. Scarra once suggested running MPEN quints on Lux because of her base damage (+ passive) is good. But building APless is pointless. You can't expect to win trades if you build no AP. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On October 09 2012 19:00 overt wrote: Yeah no reason to level w in lane as support Lux. Maybe get a point at 4, but it's possible for you to skip it for more burst. You have a lot of kill potential at 6the with your AD. I still think late game Lux is pretty bad compared to other supports but it isn't total trash and you can probably secure early leads with support Lux relatively easy. Best part of support Lux is using ult to steal enemy blue after you and the AD shove to tower. ok pretty much everyone agrees that support lux has a strong place early game but does not compare to other supports lategame. I understand the first part but not the second part. Where does this perception come from? There are a bunch of supports that scale very well into lategame (blitz, janna, soraka) and some who fall off (taric, sona). If we count Lux to the weaker lategamers then is she really worse than sona/taric and why? Isn't her ability to consistently disable and scout with her base abilities something valuable enough? Also her kit allows her to build almost no defense, isn't that something that makes her at least on par with the other not-so-lategameish supports? | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On October 09 2012 21:51 clickrush wrote: ok pretty much everyone agrees that support lux has a strong place early game but does not compare to other supports lategame. I understand the first part but not the second part. Where does this perception come from? There are a bunch of supports that scale very well into lategame (blitz, janna, soraka) and some who fall off (taric, sona). If we count Lux to the weaker lategamers then is she really worse than sona/taric and why? Isn't her ability to consistently disable and scout with her base abilities something valuable enough? Also her kit allows her to build almost no defense, isn't that something that makes her at least on par with the other not-so-lategameish supports? Sona's late game is extremely strong. Taric support falls off because of his single target initiation tool. Lux's Q, her main support ability, is honestly not that much better than Taric's E. | ||
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Kiarip
United States1835 Posts
On October 09 2012 18:42 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: you identify most of lux's characteristics and then proceed to suggest doing the exact opposite of what's logical...? you say she has good ratios, so why are you not building ap? unlikely anivia lux doesnt do damage after ~15 minutes without ap because her base numbers are not anivia level, plus she doesn't bring as much utility as anivia. her shield also scales off ap early/midgame is where ap lux is amazing, she has one of the highest level 6 bursts in the game and throughout level 11/13 she can one shot a lot of ppl, butyou need to build ap. in fact, it's her late game where ap lux sucks cause everyone can afford to get hp/mr after getting their damage items and you're not one shotting anyone building chalice cloak catalyst is just going ot make you useless for 20 minutes, and by the time you get ap, you're still useless cause everyone has mr getting like 1 of those 3 items situation to help lane is fine but getting more is just killing yourself her cooldowns are also high enough that you need to be able to devastate with one spell rotation, you cant wait for a second rotation. you're not a sustain caster so high manapool is pointless you just need to get enough regen to get by in lane but Lux doesn't have good AP ratios, she has good base damage values, so what's he saying makes sense. Personally I go boots 3-> dorans/kagepick -> kagepick/dorans ->fiendish codex + spellpen boots -> deathcap -> athene's voidstaff dfg I get the chalice early (before codex) if I'm in a tough aggressive lane, or the jungler is AP. What he says does make sense though, except I think codex is just overall better than chalice for Lux ( gives her everything she needs in an item,) and the catalyst isn't all that good for her in general imo, because she doesn't benefit all that much from the extra health when played well as you're not going to be building spellvamp to regen it, may as well build resistances, AP and CDR for stronger more spammable shield and snare to avoid damage. edit: On top of that, I disagree with a lot of what you said about late-game Lux. I think in late-game she has an important role of bursting the AD-carry after the initiation escape as he's trying to get back into the fight, while also lining up as many enemy champions as possible to also take damage from her laser+passive at a point in time where the enemy has already committed to a team-fight. On top of that her snare is a great tool for forcing a rushed initiate from your opponent which is a good opportunity to catch a lot of players with your laser, and if you do then her late-game damage is nothing to be laughed at (even though her AP ratios are pretty bad for a burst champion,) along with her team-wide shield. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On October 10 2012 13:10 Kiarip wrote: but Lux doesn't have good AP ratios, she has good base damage values, so what's he saying makes sense. She does have good ratios. Q and W both have a .7 ratio, E has a .6, R has a .75. The reason late game Lux is bad has nothing to do with ratios or base damage. It has everything to do with long CDs combined with the fact that almost no burster is going to be able to 100->0 anyone late game because everyone has built MR and/or health. This includes the AD carry. | ||
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Kiarip
United States1835 Posts
On October 10 2012 13:17 overt wrote: She does have good ratios. Q and W both have a .7 ratio, E has a .6, R has a .75. they are bad AP ratios for the nature of her spells and their cooldowns. You usually can't burst anyone down on her mid-late game with all her cooldowns even if you trigger all the passives you get from your combo, maybe only an AD carry if he fell behind on experience or you have above average farm. edit: her W ratio is actually pretty damn good for an AOE shield, was talking about offensive spells. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On October 10 2012 13:24 cLutZ wrote: Why is there a lux in 9/10 of my games these days? Is there some FotM strat guy or is she just the Teemo of Mid? She's really fun. She's the first champion I bought and played a lot of. First skin I bought was Spellthief Lux. The fact that she got ran as both a support and mid laner in recent competitive tournaments by Asian teams helps too. Fun plus being run in tournaments = lots of people are going to be playing as her. That or maybe everyone just really loves the new art. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On October 10 2012 13:17 overt wrote: She does have good ratios. Q and W both have a .7 ratio, E has a .6, R has a .75. The reason late game Lux is bad has nothing to do with ratios or base damage. It has everything to do with long CDs combined with the fact that almost no burster is going to be able to 100->0 anyone late game because everyone has built MR and/or health. This includes the AD carry. Lux definitely does NOT have good ratios. I think she is the definition of poor AP ratio on a mid laner. Her E (main damage source beside laser) has only 240 base, 0.6 ratio, yet on a 10 seconds cooldown; her other spells are even worse. A lot of Lux's damage comes from her passive, which is pretty much not useable beyond the early laning phase. I'd say Lux and Galio are the two common mid laners with the lowest ap ratio per second. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35118 Posts
On October 10 2012 13:33 Sufficiency wrote: Lux definitely does NOT have good ratios. I think she is the definition of poor AP ratio on a mid laner. Her E (main damage source beside laser) has only 240 base, 0.6 ratio, yet on a 10 seconds cooldown; her other spells are even worse. A lot of Lux's damage comes from her passive, which is pretty much not useable beyond the early laning phase. I'd say Lux and Galio are the two common mid laners with the lowest ap ratio per second. I'm not sure if you're aware, but laser pops her passive and reapplies it. Somebody posted on r/lol that they should make the shield pop her passive on enemies. I think that'd be a cute change. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On October 10 2012 13:52 Gahlo wrote: I'm not sure if you're aware, but laser pops her passive and reapplies it. Somebody posted on r/lol that they should make the shield pop her passive on enemies. I think that'd be a cute change. I am fully aware of how her passive works. But the issue remains that Lux's non-ultimate spells have low base, low ratio, and high cooldown. She is balanced due to the fact that her passive provides a lot of additional base damage. Lux's E, if not for its utility and interaction with her passive, would be the worst spell for mid laners. | ||
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HaruRH
Singapore2780 Posts
Another fun trick i love to use is to duo queue ranked and get your friend to give you blue (only if your jungler is manaless). Then, go and win mid. There's no way any champion can win mid against a Lux with blue at level 1. You just spam E on that poor dude. Once you zoned that guy really heavily (I mean, I have at least 3x more cs than my opponent during 15 minutes), just gank other lanes. Their mid would be useless in mid game and their entire team would most likely crumble under your ganks as a really fat Lux is a really scary one. | ||
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ihasaKAROT
Netherlands4730 Posts
I dont really wanna see a fat lux tbh | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On October 10 2012 16:11 HaruRH wrote: Lux is one of my favourite AP mid champions for sure. If you chose lux and was not counterpicked by some mobile champions (ahri, another lux, etc), you would most likely win your lane if you're good. Unless you had a bad day and failed to cast your 'e' properly, you would definitely out-cs your opponent due to the nature of your spells. Another fun trick i love to use is to duo queue ranked and get your friend to give you blue (only if your jungler is manaless). Then, go and win mid. There's no way any champion can win mid against a Lux with blue at level 1. You just spam E on that poor dude. Once you zoned that guy really heavily (I mean, I have at least 3x more cs than my opponent during 15 minutes), just gank other lanes. Their mid would be useless in mid game and their entire team would most likely crumble under your ganks as a really fat Lux is a really scary one. The problem with that is you can do it with a lot of mid laners. If mobility isn't an issue, a lot of long range pokey mid laners will win the lane with ease. | ||
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On October 10 2012 16:43 BlackPaladin wrote: Having high cd's isn't the same as having bad AP scaling. If lux had poor ap scaling you wouldn't be building AP on her lol. It's just all her skills have very high cd's so even with 40% cdr once she uses her spells she has to wait 5+ seconds of doing nothing to cast again. It's funny cause it's completely against how riot makes champs now. Like xerath and lux have similar roles of long range ap's, but you can see they are different in design philosophies cause xerath came later and has much lower cd's, which is something riot has outright said they like. But Xerath's Q only does damage and has no utility otherwise. His E, which has utility, has short range. | ||
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