[Champion] Lux - Page 4
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Mondeezy
United States1938 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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MCMilo
United States365 Posts
The costs 2650(abyssal) and 2715(veil) are pretty much equivalent. Not much added pressure to finish veil of any sort compared to finishing abyssal 40 minutes into the game getting a mediocre aura when everyone should(?) have MR. Also the aura is 1000 range around her so not really sure if that is particularly useful for such a long range hero like her. ONE MOREEE THING. Would 2 doran ring and scaling mana regen yellows +blues (hell, quints??) help more for her early game than Clarity? Clarity is a huge investment for her mana troubles so why not just free up that slot for Ghost? Well, either that or ignite lol. | ||
Celestial
United States652 Posts
On April 21 2012 03:47 Milestone wrote: Antiochus, very cool Lux guide. JUST ONE THING THOUGH. I'm not sure how Abyssal Scepter would tie into the purpose of worrying about magic damage. IMO holding a negatron while continually building up towards what you need and then using that negatron to build up a Banshee's Veil for the later half of the game is much more efficient. The costs 2650(abyssal) and 2715(veil) are pretty much equivalent. Not much added pressure to finish veil of any sort compared to finishing abyssal 40 minutes into the game getting a mediocre aura when everyone should(?) have MR. Also the aura is 1000 range around her so not really sure if that is particularly useful for such a long range hero like her. ONE MOREEE THING. Would 2 doran ring and scaling mana regen yellows +blues (hell, quints??) help more for her early game than Clarity? Clarity is a huge investment for her mana troubles so why not just free up that slot for Ghost? Well, either that or ignite lol. Ignite certainly wouldn't be a better option if you plan to stay at max range. Qss might be a better even cheaper alternative for Lux with more control for MR. | ||
Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On April 21 2012 03:58 Celestial wrote: Ignite certainly wouldn't be a better option if you plan to stay at max range. Qss might be a better even cheaper alternative for Lux with more control for MR. No, you absolutely have to take ignite for Lux. Otherwise she will lose horribly in early mid. I know in late game it's not very useful and you might as well ignite a creep just to get a 5 extra AP, but in early skirmishes ignite is invaluable. | ||
MCMilo
United States365 Posts
Bit annoying if you go against Irelia Q into veil pop E stun dead. But just one case. Also one thing to wonder about is the use of lichbane. Good damage? Or mostly for movespeed. Ghost would be very useful in dealing with those scenarios, so that MIGHT free up a slot for sayy a Rod of Ages? Especially good if there's a lack of mana (whopping 725 mana bonus pool). | ||
Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On April 20 2012 16:12 Antiochus wrote: So I started typing some stuff about the current Lich Bane / DFG debate people are having but then it turned into a short guide so I guess I’ll just post it here. WARNING it's a 3 page word document so for those who dont want to read it I'll put my thoughts on lich bane and DFG outside the spoiler as well. + Show Spoiler + How to Lux I’ve played about 300-400 games as Lux. She was the first champion I bought when starting the game and has been one of my favorites ever since. I didn’t use any guides when learning to play Lux and as such I tried many, many different builds before coming to what I believe is the optimal build, or at the very least the optimal build for how I think Lux should be played. I’ve been called a coward, I’ve been accused of kill stealing My build generally goes something like this. Runes: Magic pen reds, Mana regen scaling level yellows, ap scaling blues and flat ap quints Summoner Spells: Flash: Lux has pretty bad escape without. Clarity: Now before you go ‘Clarity is bad, learn to manage your mana better’ there is a reason I take it which is explained later on. Masteries: 21/0/9 getting all the obvious stuff in offense, mana regen in utility. Skill order: E/Q/E/W then max in preference of R -> E -> W -> Q Now the reasoning for maxing the shield before the snare is because I feel the added ability to trade damage effectively with the enemy in the mid game is more important than doing slightly more damage with the snare. Leveling the snare increases its mana cost, damage slightly and lowers its cool down slightly. The damage increase is negligible, the mana cost only makes Lux’s mana problems worse and the cool down is so high to begin with that if you miss your first snare you often won’t have a chance to fire off another one before you are either dead or the enemy escapes. Items: Boots 3 pots -> mejias -> Sorc Boots -> deathcap -> lichbane -> void staff -> deathcap/abyssal/zhonyas So the idea behind this build is to maximize the amount of damage done by ignoring mana regen and CDR. The complete lack of mana regen is why I run clarity as a summoner spell for those times when you don’t have blue buff. I dont get any CDR (unless you count the 15% from fully stacking a mejias) because you will be hitting 34% CDR with blue buff, blue pot and masteries. If you itemize to 40% CDR without blue buff then you are wasting the most important aspect of blue buff which is the 20% CDR Core Build Mejias: So this isn’t entirely set in stone, sometimes it is necessary to skip the early mejias in favour of a faster death cap if the game is playing very passively. However generally you want to get one once the mid game team fights roll around. Even if you did terribly and went 0/3/0 in lane it’s very easy to pick up assists just by casting your shield on your team mates. With proper positioning in team fights it is fairly easy to keep your stacks up as well. If you are dying in team fights as Lux then you aren’t standing far enough back. Also it’s never kill stealing, its kill securing. Sorc Boots: You don’t need cool down boots, Your cool downs are so high if you fail to kill someone with your initial burst the 15% from the boots won’t matter as the enemy will either not stick around waiting for round 2 or you will get ganked waiting for your spells to come off cool down. As such its better to try and do as much initial damage as possible with sorc boots. Death Cap: More AP = better AP. Lich Bane: This is the only AP item which also gives move speed and as such is necessary on Lux so that you can maintain good positioning against the enemy team i.e. running away. As for the proc it is very situational in when you can and can’t use it. In small fights involving just a few champions its very powerful but when full team fights happen there are so many stuns flying around that it becomes very difficult to safely land the auto attack without getting yourself killed. I have found that late game Lux can become a real turret destroyer since your stacking nothing but AP. To sum up the Lich Bane, while you might not hit the proc every 2 seconds due to safety reasons when you do hit the proc it will chunk the enemy for a lot due to how much AP you have from building glass cannon and as such is worth an item slot. Void Staff: More AP + 40% penetration = more damage. Situational items, build as needed: Zhonyas hour glass: Get this if you are getting dived a lot and/or if you are concerned about being killed by their AD. Abyssal: Get this if you are worried about dying to magic damage. Sometimes I get this before my death cap if I’m against certain champions like leblanc or kassadin just so that I can survive their burst Another Death cap: If you are winning hard enough and there is no need to build armor or magic resist than why not build an even glassier cannon? But what about... Death Fire Grasp This item seems very good on paper but I’ve never really felt it worked well on Lux. You’re already hitting 34% cdr with blue buff, blue potion and masteries. The mana regen isn’t that great and 60 ap is not a lot considering the other choices available to you. The only redeeming quality is the active, which just doesn’t mesh very well with Lux. In 1v1 fights this item is excellent for any caster, but Lux isn’t a single target assassin, she is an aoe burst mage meant to safely melt the enemy team at a distance. Running in to try and hit someone with the active from this item is just asking to get stunned and killed.Since the damage is 35% of current health running into to use it once the stuns are all on cooldown is sub optimal as you will end up doing less damage. DFG seems like an item best used in the during the initiation of a team fight but Lux can't do that safely. Arch angels/ early tear While this item does give alot of AP you need to spend 1000 gold at the start building a tear which doesn’t give you any AP at the start. If this is what you buy on your first back you are hindering yourself in lane more then you think. While you will have the mana to throw out a few more spells than normal your doing just that much less damage. Not to mention Lux’s high cooldowns makes stacking the tear a very slow process. Nashors tooth??? I’ve never built this on Lux and I’m not entirely sure why I’m even seeing this item seriously mentioned here as something for Lux. While the CDR is nice I’ve already outlined why it is less then optimal, on top of this it gives miniscule AP for an item slot and the attack speed largely goes to waste since your attack speed is going to be faster than the cool down on the lich bane proc regardless. Maybe it just doesn’t mesh with my play style but I can’t think of an effective play style that this does work with. So I hope people found this helpful Lich Bane: This is the only AP item which also gives move speed and as such is necessary on Lux so that you can maintain good positioning against the enemy team i.e. running away. As for the proc it is very situational in when you can and can’t use it. In small fights involving just a few champions its very powerful but when full team fights happen there are so many stuns flying around that it becomes very difficult to safely land the auto attack without getting yourself killed. I have found that late game Lux can become a real turret destroyer since your stacking nothing but AP. To sum up the Lich Bane, while you might not hit the proc every 2 seconds due to safety reasons when you do hit the proc it will chunk the enemy for a lot due to how much AP you have from building glass cannon and as such is worth an item slot. Death Fire Grasp This item seems very good on paper but I’ve never really felt it worked well on Lux. You’re already hitting 34% cdr with blue buff, blue potion and masteries. The mana regen isn’t that great and 60 ap is not a lot considering the other choices available to you. The only redeeming quality is the active, which just doesn’t mesh very well with Lux. In 1v1 fights this item is excellent for any caster, but Lux isn’t a single target assassin, she is an aoe burst mage meant to safely melt the enemy team at a distance. Running in to try and hit someone with the active from this item is just asking to get stunned and killed. Since the damage is 35% of current health running into to use it once the stuns are all on cooldown is sub optimal as you will end up doing less damage. DFG seems like an item best used in the during the initiation of a team fight but Lux can't do that safely. I mostly agree with your guide, but I think Lich is situational at best. Like you said, Lux does not strongly utilizes Lich's proc, so we have to look into the other bonuses. AP and movement is always nice, but movement is somewhat optional and the AP does not beat Archangel's for the cost. So the main question, imo, is whether or not you need the MR. My opinion is that it's useful only if you are facing another Lux or Karthus. The same applies for Abysal, but it's worse than Lich. Again, if you are facing another Lux or Karthus, you might as well just get Banshee's. Archangel's is actually extremely good. It provides some of the highest AP boosts for its cost. Lux naturally has 1100 mana at level 18, with AA's innate 400 mana boost, that's 1500 mana, and 3% of that is 45 AP - so that's 45+45 = 90 AP immediately even without building the tear. With maximized tear it is 25 * 3 + 45 = 75 + 45 = 120 AP. It also provides good utilities because it +mana and mana regen, allowing Lux to cast more lasers. This is important. Building AA on Lux is actually super simple (unlike Ryze, who seems to be good with building tear in theory but he can only build it in battle). Her kit is entirely skillshots, so you can just get into the habit of casting a random spell every 3 seconds and theoretically you will achieve its max in ~12 minutes. IMO a typical end-game build is the following: Sorceror's DCap MET/Nashor Archangel's Staff Void Staff Another AA/Dcap/Lich/Banshee/Shurelya's Reverie/Mejai's/whatever else you want. | ||
Celestial
United States652 Posts
On April 21 2012 04:19 Milestone wrote: T_T QSS implies you will get HIT by a crowd control to make use of the active... In reality that is terrible if you count on the enemy team to not have any sliver of coordination to take you down. QSS ONE CROWD CONTROL? HERE'S ANOTHER ONE HAVE FUN. Not to mention Veil cancels possible crowd control AND the damage dealt from a spell. Lux's base HP also suck dick and doesn't hurt to have a nice buffer of HP along with MP. Bit annoying if you go against Irelia Q into veil pop E stun dead. But just one case. Also one thing to wonder about is the use of lichbane. Good damage? Or mostly for movespeed. Ghost would be very useful in dealing with those scenarios, so that MIGHT free up a slot for sayy a Rod of Ages? Especially good if there's a lack of mana (whopping 725 mana bonus pool). Veil for the most part can be easily removed by stray pokes and sometimes doesn't even block an actual cc, in that regard the scenario you implied for qss could apply to veil except include any stray poke in the game not even cc. While I concede ignite is good for her early game would it be for better utility to get something else to provide a better late game? Having a summoner spell that is effective at all stages of the game is my preferred course than something meant just for an early game. | ||
MCMilo
United States365 Posts
"Proper positioning" sounds like such a hassle but with such a fragile champion like her, you rely so much on your team to be in front (and back?), why in the world would you get hit by stray poke?. Any reasonable spell that can be dealt to you with "proper positioning" WILL be aimed at trying to crowd control you. Ryze can Q to get it off into W but it has missile speed to make it hard to rune prison. Veigar stun is a one time thing so it's fine, Ashe Arrow NP. Alistar flash Headbutt-Pulverize check (well, sometimes). Any CORRECT way to catch a decent Lux is through long range surprise crowd control that Veil prevents so very damn well. T_T To clarify, I love ghost more than any other summoner bar flash on Lux don't get me wrong. | ||
Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
Don't build Morello's, please. Such a waste of stats. Don;t build AA. Takes her forever to stack it and you should have blue buff all game. If you feel the need for extra mana go Cata RoA. Never get Nashors...waste of money on attack speed you dont use and CDR and MP5..such waste. Either 2 dorans -> DCap or Cata->RoA -> DCap into Void Staff -> Lich Bane or other way around -> Zhonyas unless getting dived early in which case get faster. I dunno if you guys are like trolling in normals or something but this is supposed to be for real guides because people taking your suggestions are going to be very disappointed... | ||
Shauni
4077 Posts
I think the best build for general lux play (if you aren't close range threatened) 2/3 dorans morello sorc boots deathcap void staff lich bane zhonya For a defensive early/mid game where you are counterpicked and abused and threatened in teamfights. People will ridicule you for having no ap at 15-20 minutes (which is obviously the backside of this defensive build, the cc will be your major threat), you get huge around 30 min mark normally. tear lumi boots banshee veil finish AA then deathcap zhonya void staff | ||
Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
Morello's puts you way over the CDR cap and is in general a very poor item. You should never get CDR boots. Not only does it put you over the CDR cap, you lose damage. AA is really a piss poor option on Lux, it is very expensive, takes her FOREVER to charge and she is not a spam mage ala ryze. RoA is better stats, better sustain than Tear, and it still isnt great on her. I really do not know what you are doing to go oom in fights. E clears all minion waves, you should have blue and if you don't you shouldn't be fighting long engagements. | ||
Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On April 21 2012 06:51 Bladeorade wrote: Morello's puts you way over the CDR cap and is in general a very poor item. You should never get CDR boots. Not only does it put you over the CDR cap, you lose damage. AA is really a piss poor option on Lux, it is very expensive, takes her FOREVER to charge and she is not a spam mage ala ryze. RoA is better stats, better sustain than Tear, and it still isnt great on her. I really do not know what you are doing to go oom in fights. E clears all minion waves, you should have blue and if you don't you shouldn't be fighting long engagements. I disagree with this. Lux's spells can be freely casted anywhere. Ryze can't do that. This needs to be taken into consideration as well. | ||
Shauni
4077 Posts
On April 21 2012 06:51 Bladeorade wrote: Morello's puts you way over the CDR cap and is in general a very poor item. You should never get CDR boots. Not only does it put you over the CDR cap, you lose damage. AA is really a piss poor option on Lux, it is very expensive, takes her FOREVER to charge and she is not a spam mage ala ryze. RoA is better stats, better sustain than Tear, and it still isnt great on her. I really do not know what you are doing to go oom in fights. E clears all minion waves, you should have blue and if you don't you shouldn't be fighting long engagements. What the hell? Lux needs 40% CDR as fast as possible. Don't you realize that not getting low on mana and having full cooldown reduction is more 'damage' that what a slight increase in burst damage from sorc boots can offer. Lux usually survives from the initiation of a fight until the end of it. In an even fight you'll use your ulti 2 times and your other spells at least 4 each. You think a fucking RoA can support that? Are you kidding me? And even if you have blue, the regen is pathetic for lux since the nerf. I didn't even say AA was a core build on lux, I said it was a valid option. You seem to think only super spam burst mages can make use of it, you're clearly wrong. If you're building up for a long and even endgame, AA is invaluable for lux. Regarding the boots, they won't put you at the cap until perhaps lvl 18 with blue buff and zhonya (with that build) depending on your items especially not at midgame which is where you need it obviously. RoA is a terrible item on Lux. Please don't give advice here. | ||
Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
40% CDR on Lux : Blue buff, Bluff elixir, masteries. Boom. Itemizing for more is a waste of money that is better spent on more AP to blow things up. Also Suffiency...how is that relevant at all? You still stack them slow as crap not to mention you can not just spam your spells because you will go oom before any fighting even begins. I never even build RoA on Lux it would just be a much better option than AA for her. I always go 2drings -> DCap -> Void Staff -> Lich Bane -> Zhonyas -> whatever I need. I have never built tear on her and I never will. My main qualm was with the person suggesting Nashors and CDR boots... AA can work for some people but it will never be optimal and I strongly disagree with building it on Lux. I have a 67.6% playing Lux with a 209-90-234 ratio. | ||
Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On April 21 2012 09:07 Bladeorade wrote: You have given 0 reasons as to why AA is important on Lux at all. You completely lose mid game power by going AA. When do you finish AA? First? Then you have almost 0 damage. After DCap? Then why not just DCap first so you dont delay your damage for so long and for little benefit. Not to mention she really needs Void Staff and AA is really expensive. 40% CDR on Lux : Blue buff, Bluff elixir, masteries. Boom. Itemizing for more is a waste of money that is better spent on more AP to blow things up. Also Suffiency...how is that relevant at all? You still stack them slow as crap not to mention you can not just spam your spells because you will go oom before any fighting even begins. I never even build RoA on Lux it would just be a much better option than AA for her. I always go 2drings -> DCap -> Void Staff -> Lich Bane -> Zhonyas -> whatever I need. I have never built tear on her and I never will. My main qualm was with the person suggesting Nashors and CDR boots... AA can work for some people but it will never be optimal and I strongly disagree with building it on Lux. I have a 67.6% playing Lux with a 209-90-234 ratio. Oh, maybe this wasn't clear but I would never AA before DCap; so AA is more like a late-game item. I believe it is cost-effective for boosing AP, and the mana bonus is always nice. I know it's a very late AA, though, but the math tells me that it's still better and cheaper than the other options. I think spamming is indeed viable in late game once you get Tear. Her W only costs 60 mana flat and you can (and you will) randomly throw E either to build your Tear or to check bushes. It's really not that bad, although I admit Lux cannot utilize it to the maximum extent. | ||
Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
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Shauni
4077 Posts
On April 21 2012 09:07 Bladeorade wrote: You have given 0 reasons as to why AA is important on Lux at all. You completely lose mid game power by going AA. When do you finish AA? First? Then you have almost 0 damage. After DCap? Then why not just DCap first so you dont delay your damage for so long and for little benefit. Not to mention she really needs Void Staff and AA is really expensive. 40% CDR on Lux : Blue buff, Bluff elixir, masteries. Boom. Itemizing for more is a waste of money that is better spent on more AP to blow things up. Also Suffiency...how is that relevant at all? You still stack them slow as crap not to mention you can not just spam your spells because you will go oom before any fighting even begins. I never even build RoA on Lux it would just be a much better option than AA for her. I always go 2drings -> DCap -> Void Staff -> Lich Bane -> Zhonyas -> whatever I need. I have never built tear on her and I never will. My main qualm was with the person suggesting Nashors and CDR boots... AA can work for some people but it will never be optimal and I strongly disagree with building it on Lux. I have a 67.6% playing Lux with a 209-90-234 ratio. I've given enough reasons. AA is a lot cheaper than Deathcap, gives about the same amount of AP (once stacked) and you will never have mana issues. Sure, you can go Deathcap before AA in that build, it might be better sometimes but it depends on how late it is in the game and your gold when teleporting back before an important fight. I thought I already explained the reasoning behind that build. You voluntarily lose midgame damage for tankiness. What good is a deathcap and void staff going to do you if you die first in every team fight? The idea is to sacrifice damage midgame but still being able to cc and harass a lot due to unlimited mana and full cdr. And like I said, when you can constantly afford blue potions you can obviously switch boots. You won't have a blue buff whole game. You won't have blue potion whole game. By the time you will constantly be over the 40% limit you could switch whatever item you wanted. The build explained a specific part of how to deal with lux being exploited in teamfights. And you still repeat the same idiotic message. AP AP AP AP. Damage damage damage damage. | ||
Antiochus
Canada548 Posts
On April 21 2012 03:47 Milestone wrote: Antiochus, very cool Lux guide. JUST ONE THING THOUGH. I'm not sure how Abyssal Scepter would tie into the purpose of worrying about magic damage. IMO holding a negatron while continually building up towards what you need and then using that negatron to build up a Banshee's Veil for the later half of the game is much more efficient. The costs 2650(abyssal) and 2715(veil) are pretty much equivalent. Not much added pressure to finish veil of any sort compared to finishing abyssal 40 minutes into the game getting a mediocre aura when everyone should(?) have MR. Also the aura is 1000 range around her so not really sure if that is particularly useful for such a long range hero like her. ONE MOREEE THING. Would 2 doran ring and scaling mana regen yellows +blues (hell, quints??) help more for her early game than Clarity? Clarity is a huge investment for her mana troubles so why not just free up that slot for Ghost? Well, either that or ignite lol. Ok for the first point about abyssal scepter rushing vs certain mids. The idea here is that rushing an abyssal scepter gives you just some what less damage then a death cap rush but is much cheaper and more likely to be completed sooner in early laning phase when it really counts. Here is the math behind it, to keep this simple im assuming lux is level 6 with level 1 Q, level 3 E and level 1 R with no source of ap other than the deathcap/abyssal with 10% magic pen from masteries and 8.5 from runes. Now my numbers might be slightly off but im fairly certain it goes flat reduction and then % reduction when calculating armor penetration. Death Cap 3600 gold Ap ratios Q 60 + .7(182) E 150 + .6(182) R 300 + .75(182) = 883 in damage Magic resist 30 – 8.5 = 21.5 *.9 = 19.35 100/119.35 = 0.838... 0.838... * 883 = 740 actual damage Abyssal Scepter 2650 gold Q 60 + .7(70) E 150 + .6(70) R 300 + .75(70) = 653.5 in damage Magic resist 30 -8.5 – 20 = 1.5 *.9 = 1.35 100/101.35 = 0.986... 0.986... * 653.5 = 645 actual damage Now I realize this is over simplified as you will have ap from masteries/runes as well but the basic idea is still there. For the cost difference of 950 gold we have a difference between the two items of only 95 in damage while abyssal will also provide defensive stats which will be very helpful in surviving the laning phase against certain counter lanes. As for your second point about taking two dorans/mana regen runes instead of clarity. The issue is you can’t start dorans ring as boots are necessary against every ap mid match up I can think of due to the need of being able to dodge skill shots. Clarity is most useful on lux in helping her to be aggressive early game before your jungler is feeding you blue buff and later on its more for keeping your mana topped off in-between blue buffs. How many times have you seen a potential kill early game that you missed because you didn’t have enough mana for your full burst combo? By running clarity I can ignore itemizing for mana regen early game and instead focus solely on getting nothing but AP. As for this talk people are having about archangels staff. I would only ever build that thing after my death cap, losing 1000 gold building essentially non offensive stats is to large of an investment to make early game without risking losing your lane to a competent opponent. Edit: Didnt see that post above me before posting this, You seem to want to build lux more for the utility and sustain in team fights while what im going for optimally here is to be able to assassinate the enemy carrys at the start of the fight or at the very least get the enemy team so low they cant properly engage without dieing. Both are good options just different. | ||
Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
On April 21 2012 11:28 Shauni wrote: I've given enough reasons. AA is a lot cheaper than Deathcap, gives about the same amount of AP (once stacked) and you will never have mana issues. Sure, you can go Deathcap before AA in that build, it might be better sometimes but it depends on how late it is in the game and your gold when teleporting back before an important fight. I thought I already explained the reasoning behind that build. You voluntarily lose midgame damage for tankiness. What good is a deathcap and void staff going to do you if you die first in every team fight? The idea is to sacrifice damage midgame but still being able to cc and harass a lot due to unlimited mana and full cdr. And like I said, when you can constantly afford blue potions you can obviously switch boots. You won't have a blue buff whole game. You won't have blue potion whole game. By the time you will constantly be over the 40% limit you could switch whatever item you wanted. The build explained a specific part of how to deal with lux being exploited in teamfights. And you still repeat the same idiotic message. AP AP AP AP. Damage damage damage damage. A stacked AA does not give nearly the same amount of AP... Tankiness? What how does AA make you tanky in anyway shape or form. If anything DCap makes you more tanky because higher shield value. Lux is her strongest mid game, so you voluntarily lose out on her strong point. If you die first every fight you have positioning issues not mana issues. I am done arguing this keep building AA I don't really care. | ||
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