EPT[Champion] Amumu - Page 14
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 13 2012 07:30 Tooplark wrote: I actually almost completely ignore tantrum when jungling. While it's faster than cry mode and keeps you healthier, it also destroys your mana pool, making jungling without blue really slow. W also makes dragon go super quickly. In fact, the only time I level tantrum before 8 is in lane. I typically build either glacial, aegis, or shurelia first, depending on what I'm feeling like. This makes no sense--Tantrum isn't less mana efficient than Despair, so using it doesn't "destroy your mana pool" any more than Despair does. Crying creeps down doesn't magically save you mana because it still does less damage per mana spent than Tantrum does. For comparison: Rank 1 Tantrum is 75 damage for 35 mana, or 2.14 damage per point of mana spent. Rank 5 Tantrum is 175 damage for 25 mana, or 5 damage per point of mana. Rank 1 Despair is 8+1.5% max HP damage for 8 mana. Most jungle monsters have typically 300-500 HP (with the buffs and the big minigolem having 1k+). Against a "typical" 400 HP monster, this is ~1.75 damage per point of mana spent, and against a big 1k HP monster, though against the bigger monsters push that to ~2.875. Rank 5 Despair is 24+2.7% max HP damage for 8 mana. Using the same numbers as above, we get 4.35 damage per point of mana spent against smaller monsters, and ~6.375 against bigger ones. So what this means is that Tantrum is somewhat more mana-efficient against small monsters, and somewhat less mana efficient against bigger ones. But since the jungling without blue buff typically entails clearing small camps, it means that using Tantrum to clear camps SAVES you mana compared to crying them down, because Tantrum is more mana-efficient at dealing damage to the weaker creeps. | ||
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Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
Either way, I do prefer being able to take drag/baron earlier. Level 6 -> gank bot with ult, probably force them back, and if someone's healthy enough to tank drag you can do it right then. (unless enemy mid and jungle converge on you and your mid doesn't help) | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
After a certain point you really shouldn't be worrying too much about mana pool anyway, amumu's pretty forgiving and you usually end up with either a philo or some dorans | ||
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Simberto
Germany11669 Posts
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
I've never found mana to be a huge issue with amumu - you have philo and are just clearing small camps quickly and camping lanes anyway. If you're low on mana it usually means you should go back for more items/wards anyway. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On October 17 2012 03:20 Ryuu314 wrote: Only time I ever have mana issues on Amumu is if I'm pretending to be spider man and using Q to get to every camp. Should play Lee Sin then. Q to camps all day! If I'm stomping hard enough, I get chalice on Amumu. Cry all day, never not cry all day. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On October 17 2012 04:02 wei2coolman wrote: Should play Lee Sin then. Q to camps all day! If I'm stomping hard enough, I get chalice on Anever notcry all day. I do play leesin. He's my top three most played! Bandage toss feels more Spider-Man-y tho | ||
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mockturtle
United States220 Posts
I tried this out (maxing W quickly, ignoring E). Seemed to be a pretty big difference on double golems or buffs in those mid levels, but wraiths and wolves are also worse. Also I was feeling the absence of E's dmg reduction passive. I didn't notice any increased mana efficiency though. I've been enjoying more the suggestion of maxing Q quickly (after lvl2 E and lvl1 W). The increased damage and lower cooldown of Q really makes you a lot more scrappy in those chaotic fights and having a second bandage makes you a lot better at finishing someone off. I don't really dig the double dorans build. I don't feel like the AP makes a difference, so it feels like all you're buying is mana regen and health at a big premium. Recently I've been trying a chalice first, followed by sorc shoes and a dorans shield, sorc shoes->chain vest, or chalice->ninja tabi. The chalice seems like a good value, it's not like the MR is wasted although it's maybe not necessary immediately. However, the chalice may be overkill if you hvae a katarina or something in mid so you can hog blue. | ||
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LeSioN
United States325 Posts
On October 16 2012 02:03 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: If you're going 2 dorans and you're not maxing q you're doing it wrong Eh the recent nerf makes this less viable. Although I am a true believer in always maxing q in any mumu build. Mumu isn't naturlly tanky enough by himself so he kinda relies on items/skills and his q with a 3.7 second cooldown is gg for any skirmish where his ult isn't aplicable. How I pine for the days of 1:1 scale on q | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On October 16 2012 02:37 TheYango wrote: This makes no sense--Tantrum isn't less mana efficient than Despair, so using it doesn't "destroy your mana pool" any more than Despair does. Crying creeps down doesn't magically save you mana because it still does less damage per mana spent than Tantrum does. For comparison: Rank 1 Tantrum is 75 damage for 35 mana, or 2.14 damage per point of mana spent. Rank 5 Tantrum is 175 damage for 25 mana, or 5 damage per point of mana. Rank 1 Despair is 8+1.5% max HP damage for 8 mana. Most jungle monsters have typically 300-500 HP (with the buffs and the big minigolem having 1k+). Against a "typical" 400 HP monster, this is ~1.75 damage per point of mana spent, and against a big 1k HP monster, though against the bigger monsters push that to ~2.875. Rank 5 Despair is 24+2.7% max HP damage for 8 mana. Using the same numbers as above, we get 4.35 damage per point of mana spent against smaller monsters, and ~6.375 against bigger ones. So what this means is that Tantrum is somewhat more mana-efficient against small monsters, and somewhat less mana efficient against bigger ones. But since the jungling without blue buff typically entails clearing small camps, it means that using Tantrum to clear camps SAVES you mana compared to crying them down, because Tantrum is more mana-efficient at dealing damage to the weaker creeps. Interesting. I always suspected that W was more mana-efficient, but I guess I was (partially) wrong. Regardless, I feel that maxing E first is still ideal because dat passive is way too good. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
My poor Mundo.  Should get more MR on you.Also Nautilus only true spiderman. Always jump to | ||
NonY
8751 Posts
On October 15 2012 22:37 zulu_nation8 wrote: not even azingy stack rings anymore, the way to play amumu, like with every jungler is to tax your lanes more than they can tax you. it's 2 weeks since this comment and azingy's match history now has an average of 2 rings per game (one game with 1, one game with 2, one game with 3). i just got a new rune page so i can jungle mumu and this thread is confusing me. so many different recommendations. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
On October 18 2012 09:56 LeSioN wrote: Eh the recent nerf makes this less viable. Although I am a true believer in always maxing q in any mumu build. Mumu isn't naturlly tanky enough by himself so he kinda relies on items/skills and his q with a 3.7 second cooldown is gg for any skirmish where his ult isn't aplicable. How I pine for the days of 1:1 scale on q Are you criticizing the max q or the dorans rings? I don't go dorans anymore, but if you read, I said "IF you're going 2 dorans..." | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On October 18 2012 11:24 WaveofShadow wrote: Someone mentioned Scip remaking this thread 'cause it's old as balls. I'd be completely fine with that, especially since Bly might yell at me if I tried to update it or something.... Ummm, sure. I can make the thread this Saturday since I got school this whole Friday zzz. You guys can PM me suggestions for builds/setups/etc. but I won't guarantee I will put your "max W first" or "Abyssal Sunfire always" builds in there if I don't find them convincing enough But if your elo is massive I will probably put it in just to avoid being called some sort of I don't even know what term is used for people that don't respect people who have higher elo than you but I am sure I don't want to be called that so yeah. there you go And no Yango before you PM me I will not write that Amumu likes 2nd blue buff extraordinarily much. That's like the one thing you will 100% not read there just because. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
On November 02 2012 04:44 Liquid`NonY wrote: it's 2 weeks since this comment and azingy's match history now has an average of 2 rings per game (one game with 1, one game with 2, one game with 3). i just got a new rune page so i can jungle mumu and this thread is confusing me. so many different recommendations. maybe he went back to it idk, there was a period of many weeks where he went double gp10 to sunfire. I still like philo because you need health regen in the jungle. | ||
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Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
don't think they're worth giving up AP or armor for, but you have slightly higher health after big camps | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On November 02 2012 06:08 Tooplark wrote: oh, running vamp quints on mumu works pretty nice too btw don't think they're worth giving up AP or armor for, but you have slightly higher health after big camps I am pretty sure spell vamp quints are terrible on Amumu: comparing them to HP5 quints, these regenerate 97.2 hp/minute in comparison, you'd have to deal 4860 damage/minute to creeps. "but wait Scip!" you might say. "If you kill buffs, you might do a little bit more than that!" That is very true, you can do more than 4860 damage/minute, though it is not guaranteed. But then remember we are comparing thes runes to HP5 quints which are pretty damn terrible. (You usually don't need the extra healing because you usually want to get Shurelyas quite early. Therefore, Philostone. Otherwise, Doran's Shield) edit: also just for the record I build Doran's Ring often. So that will be mentioned in the guide a lot. | ||
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