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[Champion] Amumu - Page 14

Forum Index > LoL Strategy
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
October 15 2012 17:03 GMT
#261
If you're going 2 dorans and you're not maxing q you're doing it wrong
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-15 17:39:57
October 15 2012 17:37 GMT
#262
On October 13 2012 07:30 Tooplark wrote:
I actually almost completely ignore tantrum when jungling. While it's faster than cry mode and keeps you healthier, it also destroys your mana pool, making jungling without blue really slow. W also makes dragon go super quickly.
In fact, the only time I level tantrum before 8 is in lane.

I typically build either glacial, aegis, or shurelia first, depending on what I'm feeling like.

This makes no sense--Tantrum isn't less mana efficient than Despair, so using it doesn't "destroy your mana pool" any more than Despair does. Crying creeps down doesn't magically save you mana because it still does less damage per mana spent than Tantrum does.

For comparison:
Rank 1 Tantrum is 75 damage for 35 mana, or 2.14 damage per point of mana spent.
Rank 5 Tantrum is 175 damage for 25 mana, or 5 damage per point of mana.

Rank 1 Despair is 8+1.5% max HP damage for 8 mana. Most jungle monsters have typically 300-500 HP (with the buffs and the big minigolem having 1k+). Against a "typical" 400 HP monster, this is ~1.75 damage per point of mana spent, and against a big 1k HP monster, though against the bigger monsters push that to ~2.875.

Rank 5 Despair is 24+2.7% max HP damage for 8 mana. Using the same numbers as above, we get 4.35 damage per point of mana spent against smaller monsters, and ~6.375 against bigger ones.

So what this means is that Tantrum is somewhat more mana-efficient against small monsters, and somewhat less mana efficient against bigger ones. But since the jungling without blue buff typically entails clearing small camps, it means that using Tantrum to clear camps SAVES you mana compared to crying them down, because Tantrum is more mana-efficient at dealing damage to the weaker creeps.
Moderator
Tooplark
Profile Joined October 2008
United States3977 Posts
October 15 2012 23:46 GMT
#263
How odd. I always feel cramped for mana when I'm maxing E first. Perhaps I just notice not having the mana to Tantrum more than I notice not having the mana to cry...

Either way, I do prefer being able to take drag/baron earlier. Level 6 -> gank bot with ult, probably force them back, and if someone's healthy enough to tank drag you can do it right then. (unless enemy mid and jungle converge on you and your mid doesn't help)
WHAT POW'R ART THOU WHO FROM BELOW HAST MADE ME RISE UNWILLINGLY AND SLOW
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
October 16 2012 04:17 GMT
#264
The reason you take e is because it allows you to clear faster if you're good at manipulating the buffs to get hit by e and not the tiny ranged lizards

After a certain point you really shouldn't be worrying too much about mana pool anyway, amumu's pretty forgiving and you usually end up with either a philo or some dorans
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11549 Posts
October 16 2012 11:24 GMT
#265
Another reason is that you are just faster with e then if you only took ranks in w. Thus, even if you get similar amounts of damage per mana, you consume more mana per second because you kill stuff faster, making you go oom faster because there is less time for the mana to regenerate. Of course, you still want to be faster, otherwise you could just punch everything to death for ages, and thus have insane mana effficiency. After all, the main point of having that mana is using it. The faster you are in the jungle, the more camps you can get at equal amounts of ganking, thus increasing the total amount of money your team has.
Sandster
Profile Joined November 2006
United States4054 Posts
October 16 2012 15:37 GMT
#266
Yeah I don't know why you'd ever max W over E. You clear camps faster, are tankier, and do more damage in ganks when maxing E first.

I've never found mana to be a huge issue with amumu - you have philo and are just clearing small camps quickly and camping lanes anyway. If you're low on mana it usually means you should go back for more items/wards anyway.
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
October 16 2012 18:20 GMT
#267
Only time I ever have mana issues on Amumu is if I'm pretending to be spider man and using Q to get to every camp.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
October 16 2012 19:02 GMT
#268
On October 17 2012 03:20 Ryuu314 wrote:
Only time I ever have mana issues on Amumu is if I'm pretending to be spider man and using Q to get to every camp.

Should play Lee Sin then. Q to camps all day!
If I'm stomping hard enough, I get chalice on Amumu. Cry all day, never not cry all day.
liftlift > tsm
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-16 19:31:25
October 16 2012 19:30 GMT
#269
On October 17 2012 04:02 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2012 03:20 Ryuu314 wrote:
Only time I ever have mana issues on Amumu is if I'm pretending to be spider man and using Q to get to every camp.

Should play Lee Sin then. Q to camps all day!
If I'm stomping hard enough, I get chalice on Anever notcry all day.

I do play leesin. He's my top three most played! Bandage toss feels more Spider-Man-y tho
mockturtle
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States220 Posts
October 16 2012 19:56 GMT
#270
Some nice ideas in this thread. I've been an amumu lover almost since I started playing the game so by now I've tried a whole bunch of stuff.

I tried this out (maxing W quickly, ignoring E). Seemed to be a pretty big difference on double golems or buffs in those mid levels, but wraiths and wolves are also worse. Also I was feeling the absence of E's dmg reduction passive. I didn't notice any increased mana efficiency though.

I've been enjoying more the suggestion of maxing Q quickly (after lvl2 E and lvl1 W). The increased damage and lower cooldown of Q really makes you a lot more scrappy in those chaotic fights and having a second bandage makes you a lot better at finishing someone off.

I don't really dig the double dorans build. I don't feel like the AP makes a difference, so it feels like all you're buying is mana regen and health at a big premium. Recently I've been trying a chalice first, followed by sorc shoes and a dorans shield, sorc shoes->chain vest, or chalice->ninja tabi. The chalice seems like a good value, it's not like the MR is wasted although it's maybe not necessary immediately. However, the chalice may be overkill if you hvae a katarina or something in mid so you can hog blue.
LeSioN
Profile Joined November 2010
United States325 Posts
October 18 2012 00:56 GMT
#271
On October 16 2012 02:03 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
If you're going 2 dorans and you're not maxing q you're doing it wrong

Eh the recent nerf makes this less viable. Although I am a true believer in always maxing q in any mumu build. Mumu isn't naturlly tanky enough by himself so he kinda relies on items/skills and his q with a 3.7 second cooldown is gg for any skirmish where his ult isn't aplicable. How I pine for the days of 1:1 scale on q
Someone needs to tell the truth, but it shouldn't be my job.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
October 18 2012 02:13 GMT
#272
On October 16 2012 02:37 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2012 07:30 Tooplark wrote:
I actually almost completely ignore tantrum when jungling. While it's faster than cry mode and keeps you healthier, it also destroys your mana pool, making jungling without blue really slow. W also makes dragon go super quickly.
In fact, the only time I level tantrum before 8 is in lane.

I typically build either glacial, aegis, or shurelia first, depending on what I'm feeling like.

This makes no sense--Tantrum isn't less mana efficient than Despair, so using it doesn't "destroy your mana pool" any more than Despair does. Crying creeps down doesn't magically save you mana because it still does less damage per mana spent than Tantrum does.

For comparison:
Rank 1 Tantrum is 75 damage for 35 mana, or 2.14 damage per point of mana spent.
Rank 5 Tantrum is 175 damage for 25 mana, or 5 damage per point of mana.

Rank 1 Despair is 8+1.5% max HP damage for 8 mana. Most jungle monsters have typically 300-500 HP (with the buffs and the big minigolem having 1k+). Against a "typical" 400 HP monster, this is ~1.75 damage per point of mana spent, and against a big 1k HP monster, though against the bigger monsters push that to ~2.875.

Rank 5 Despair is 24+2.7% max HP damage for 8 mana. Using the same numbers as above, we get 4.35 damage per point of mana spent against smaller monsters, and ~6.375 against bigger ones.

So what this means is that Tantrum is somewhat more mana-efficient against small monsters, and somewhat less mana efficient against bigger ones. But since the jungling without blue buff typically entails clearing small camps, it means that using Tantrum to clear camps SAVES you mana compared to crying them down, because Tantrum is more mana-efficient at dealing damage to the weaker creeps.


Interesting. I always suspected that W was more mana-efficient, but I guess I was (partially) wrong.

Regardless, I feel that maxing E first is still ideal because dat passive is way too good.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31494 Posts
October 18 2012 02:24 GMT
#273
Someone mentioned Scip remaking this thread 'cause it's old as balls. I'd be completely fine with that, especially since Bly might yell at me if I tried to update it or something....
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
October 18 2012 02:43 GMT
#274
W's a bitch to deal with because few people max it, but when they do you destroy them early on then they get a few defensive stats of they come across you while you're wounded and suddenly it's all "OMG HOW IS HE DESTROYING ME SO HARD AT LEVEL 7".
My poor Mundo. Should get more MR on you.

Also Nautilus only true spiderman. Always jump to buildings terrain never not jump to terrain.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8748 Posts
November 01 2012 19:44 GMT
#275
On October 15 2012 22:37 zulu_nation8 wrote:
not even azingy stack rings anymore, the way to play amumu, like with every jungler is to tax your lanes more than they can tax you.

it's 2 weeks since this comment and azingy's match history now has an average of 2 rings per game (one game with 1, one game with 2, one game with 3).

i just got a new rune page so i can jungle mumu and this thread is confusing me. so many different recommendations.
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
November 01 2012 20:08 GMT
#276
On October 18 2012 09:56 LeSioN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 16 2012 02:03 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
If you're going 2 dorans and you're not maxing q you're doing it wrong

Eh the recent nerf makes this less viable. Although I am a true believer in always maxing q in any mumu build. Mumu isn't naturlly tanky enough by himself so he kinda relies on items/skills and his q with a 3.7 second cooldown is gg for any skirmish where his ult isn't aplicable. How I pine for the days of 1:1 scale on q

Are you criticizing the max q or the dorans rings? I don't go dorans anymore, but if you read, I said "IF you're going 2 dorans..."
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-01 21:02:27
November 01 2012 21:00 GMT
#277
On October 18 2012 11:24 WaveofShadow wrote:
Someone mentioned Scip remaking this thread 'cause it's old as balls. I'd be completely fine with that, especially since Bly might yell at me if I tried to update it or something....

Ummm, sure. I can make the thread this Saturday since I got school this whole Friday zzz.
You guys can PM me suggestions for builds/setups/etc. but I won't guarantee I will put your "max W first" or "Abyssal Sunfire always" builds in there if I don't find them convincing enough
But if your elo is massive I will probably put it in just to avoid being called some sort of I don't even know what term is used for people that don't respect people who have higher elo than you
but I am sure I don't want to be called that so yeah. there you go

And no Yango before you PM me I will not write that Amumu likes 2nd blue buff extraordinarily much. That's like the one thing you will 100% not read there just because.
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
November 01 2012 21:03 GMT
#278
On November 02 2012 04:44 Liquid`NonY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2012 22:37 zulu_nation8 wrote:
not even azingy stack rings anymore, the way to play amumu, like with every jungler is to tax your lanes more than they can tax you.

it's 2 weeks since this comment and azingy's match history now has an average of 2 rings per game (one game with 1, one game with 2, one game with 3).

i just got a new rune page so i can jungle mumu and this thread is confusing me. so many different recommendations.


maybe he went back to it idk, there was a period of many weeks where he went double gp10 to sunfire. I still like philo because you need health regen in the jungle.
Tooplark
Profile Joined October 2008
United States3977 Posts
November 01 2012 21:08 GMT
#279
oh, running vamp quints on mumu works pretty nice too btw
don't think they're worth giving up AP or armor for, but you have slightly higher health after big camps
WHAT POW'R ART THOU WHO FROM BELOW HAST MADE ME RISE UNWILLINGLY AND SLOW
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-01 21:20:22
November 01 2012 21:19 GMT
#280
On November 02 2012 06:08 Tooplark wrote:
oh, running vamp quints on mumu works pretty nice too btw
don't think they're worth giving up AP or armor for, but you have slightly higher health after big camps

I am pretty sure spell vamp quints are terrible on Amumu:
comparing them to HP5 quints, these regenerate 97.2 hp/minute
in comparison, you'd have to deal 4860 damage/minute to creeps.
"but wait Scip!" you might say. "If you kill buffs, you might do a little bit more than that!"
That is very true, you can do more than 4860 damage/minute, though it is not guaranteed. But then remember we are comparing thes runes to HP5 quints which are pretty damn terrible.
(You usually don't need the extra healing because you usually want to get Shurelyas quite early. Therefore, Philostone. Otherwise, Doran's Shield)

edit: also just for the record I build Doran's Ring often. So that will be mentioned in the guide a lot.
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
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