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Amumu, The Sad Mummy
Updated June 14, 2011
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/b6hGS.jpg)
That's right! Since there seems to be a distinct lack of a guide for everyone's favourite emo undead 10-year-old, I figured I'd step in and give my two cents on how Amumu should be played. Feel free to add your own opinions and builds to the thread and I will update as necessary (especially if mine turns out to suck)!
Skills
[Passive] Cursed Touch - Amumu's attacks reduce the target's Magic Resistance by 15/25/35 for 4 seconds.
This passive and Despair are why Sunfire cape remains a good item on Amumu. Pair this up with MPen reds and you'll be surprised how much damage you can dish out while still being tanky.
[Q] Bandage Toss - Amumu tosses a sticky bandage at a target, stunning and damaging the target while he pulls him self to them. (320 at max)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/Z160w.png)
One of Amumu's two stuns and one of the best initiation skills. Reminiscent of Blitz's Rocket Grab, but in reverse. This will connect with the first target it hits, minion or otherwise, so make sure you are REALLY good with skillshots if you're going to try to stun a champ in the middle of a minion wave. Practice makes perfect! A good Bandage Toss often makes the difference between a won or lost teamfight or an escaped or dead straggler.
[W] Despair - Overcome by anguish, nearby enemies lose a percentage of their maximum health each second. (24 magic dmg + 2.7% of hp/sec at max)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/YqxQU.png)
Recently a graphic was added so you can see exactly the area this skill affects. Toggle this on and keep it on in teamfights, but don't forget to turn it off once it's over! It eats up less mana than it used to, but it'll still leave you dry if you're not running a lot of mana/5 or don't have blue. Excellent skill for taking down Dragon/Baron as well. This is Amumu's first skill to take in the jungle as it allows you take down creeps fairly quickly when combined with Tantrum.
[E] Tantrum - Permanently reduces the physical damage Amumu would take. Amumu can unleash his rage, dealing damage to surrounding enemies. Each time Amumu is hit, the cooldown on Tantrum is reduced by 0.5 seconds. (175 dmg/10 phys dmg reduction at max)
This is Amumu's bread-and-butter farming skill, along with Despair. Just walk into a minion wave, toggle Despair, hit Tantrum a couple times, and voilà! Even better, leveling this lowers the amount of harassment damage you take----10 physical damage at level 5! If an enemy champion moves up to last hit, go ahead and harass them with Tantrum, you'll probably get some much-needed CS along with it.
[R] Curse of the Sad Mummy - Amumu entangles surrounding enemy units in bandages, damaging them and rendering them unable to attack or move. (2 sec stun, 350 dmg at max)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/dn9sl.png)
The Game-Changer. Although it had been nerfed recently, it is still one of, if not THE BEST AoE ultimate in the game. The damage is ok, but the stun is simply without match (for comparison, remember Galio's Ult can be interrupted, yours can't!). A Q+R combo is devastating to an enemy team, just make sure your team is ready to engage since Q will shoot you ahead. Since Curse is on such a long cooldown, blue elixirs/buff and CDR in general can make a big difference if teamfights are frequent. In the mid-to-late game you almost never want to fight without this skill up. Make sure when using it you maximize its potential---stunning enemy carries is often better than hitting the 3 tanky champs in the front with the stun while letting Tristana beat on your engaging team from the side or behind. If you have to Bandage Toss then wait on the Ult, better to wait; this is one skill that is absolutely crucial not to screw up. Curse is also a handy escape spell. Being chased down to your death? Ult then run your green little legs off. In a 1v1 situation you may also want to use this as well to clinch the kill, but make sure that your team isn't going to need it immediately after.
Amumu can and should be built mainly as a tank. While his AP ratios on [Q] and [R] are very nice, AP does absolutely nothing for Despair (it gets 0.5% of AP!!) and Tantrum ratio (0.5) is meh. You simply won't hit hard or fast enough to be a true caster. There is a caster-type build outlined later in the guide but I would only recommend it for more experienced players as it is more difficult to pull off well. (High risk/high reward)
I will outline both jungling and lane Amumu builds here. His mid and lategame are pretty much the same so I'll just combine the two parts at the end.
Jungle Amumu
Runes
Marks - 9x MPen
Seals - 9x Flat armor
Quints - 3x Flat HP or Movespeed
Glyphs - Mres/lvl or MP5/lvl or CDR/lvl.
In the most recent patch, Amumu doesn't need a great deal of help from runes to jungle but these seem to be the most optimal combination when considering his early to late game transition. I personally don't use MP5/lvl but I can see why one would. I like CDR/lvl because you can never have Curse up soon enough!
Masteries
Standard jungler fare: 1/14/15 or 1/21/8, making sure to take SoS and buff duration. Taking reduced damage from minions when paired with lvl 5 Tantrum will make some minions do 0 damage!
Summoner spells
Ghost/Smite. 'Nuff said.
Skill Order
WEEQE - This allows you to grab your stun for early ganking while leveling E does not increase mana cost while increasing damage --> faster jungling. After that, R >E>W>Q.
Items
+ Show Spoiler +Cloth + pots --> Boots --> HoG --> Merc Treads --> HoG/Aegis/Catalyst/Negatron --> Banshee's --> Sunfire --> Randuin's --> whatever the hell you want. He doesn't need AP to deal damage so build him as tanky as you need to, while paying attention to what enemy champions are building. A Rylai's for the utility in teamfights is often a good choice. I have never tried Shurelya's Reverie on Amumu however it seems like a good item for him after you have a lot of the earlier build---extra health/hp5/mp5/CDR VERY good for Mooms. There is something to be said about CDR boots to aim for 40% CDR for Amumu since this can lower Bandage Toss cooldown to 5 secs or so at max, and lowers Curse cooldown to about 75 secs which is great...situational, I suppose. If you get the boots don't get Shurelya's and vice versa. Amumu will get all the rest of the CDR he needs from Randuin's/runes/masteries. Overall be flexible with your tankiness; if the opposing team is all ranged AD carries get Tabi instead of Mercs for example. The order in which you get your tank items is flexible as well, everything after HoG #1 or 2 and boots I would say is entirely up to the opposing team composition and your own.
Above guide works but is slightly outdated. Better jungle builds now consist of Sapphire + 2pots opening --> Cata, or even better, Regrowth pendant + pot --> Philosopher Stone as SOON as you can get it. HoG is no longer a useful item for Amumu to get, and at least until Philostone is nerfed, you should be taking advantage of the fact that you'll never have to bluepill to heal again while still earning gold. The rest of the item build still works, though I would almost definitely throw in Abyssal Scepter for your team when you can.
Jungling Path
I'm not the most experienced when in comes to jungling so I will lay out here what I know. Since the most recent patch (1.0.0.111) Amumu's jungling speed has been greatly improved thanks to lower mana cost of [W] and lower incoming damage from [E]. A standard start at blue-->wolves-->wraiths-->red/twins-->twins/red gives you level 4 in under 4:00 easily. Even faster if you get a little help with Ancient Golem. Port back, grab boots and prepare to gank. (It may even be possible to gank before porting back, but I would reserve this for a lane with strong cc or a slower more careful jungle time.) If you start with Philostone jungle build, pick one up as SOON as you have enough gold for it. If you start Sapph + pots opening, port back for Ruby Crystal and try to stay at high HP. This build isn't nearly as fast but it ultimately pays off really well. Amumu's level 4 gank isn't amazingly strong as he only has the one skillshot stun, so be content if your first try only send your opponents back to base. Your level 6 gank, however is an easy FB if it hasn't happened yet. Q+R mean your opponents will be stunned so long they won't even know what hit them. Feel free to tower dive if you need to; Amumu can take it. There are other possible jungle paths, but none are as solid overall as this one. If you're worried about being ganked at blue you can try a wraith jack or to start at your own wraiths, but know your path will be slower. Amumu does not counterjungle very well, but he is rarely at low HP so he is tough to gank himself. A stolen blue will absolutely cripple Amumu in the jungle since he is so mana-hungry so absolutely ward your blue if you're not starting there, and ward it after you've taken it once. On the other hand, if you've gone with Philostone path, your slower jungle pays off even if you lose blue to a Nunu or something, because the mana regen allows you to continue without having to go back for mana, so long as you're not constantly spamming E.
Lanemumu
While not as strong as a jungle mummy, Amumu in lane does ok as a babysitter, and can clear minion waves very effectively, making it difficult for enemy champions to push. Be wary though, he is very easy to zone out at early levels so make sure your lane partner is effective in that regard. Amumu should never have a solo lane.
Runes
Marks - 9x MPen
Seals - 9x Flat armor or MP5/lvl
Quints - 3x Flat HP
Glyphs - Mres/lvl or MP5/lvl or CDR/lvl.
Amumu's skills eat up a LOT of his mana in the early game so if you think you're going to be harassing a lot, I would recommend either MP5/lvl seals or glyphs. It's definitely possible to not use them at all though, as long as your partner will be helping out.
Masteries
0/21/9 or 0/9/21. I prefer a safer build with less harassment so I take 0/21/9 but 0/9/21 will allow you to hang to that much more mana and will make harassment easier.
Summoner spells
Ghost/Flash or Ghost/Ignite. I won't go into detail why the other ones aren't particularly useful for him. A Flash ult can be redundant on Amumu because of Bandage Toss, but if you have positioning issues, feel free. It's an excellent escape tool as well if you find you're getting caught and don't feel like dying for your team.
Skill Order
QEWEE - Early stun for lvl 1 teamfights/facecheck gank is pro. After that, R>E>W>Q for easy harassment, farm, and less damage from minion aggro.
Items
+ Show Spoiler +Doran's Shield --> Boots --> HoG --> Mercs--> HoG/Catalyst/Negatron --> Banshee's --> Sunfire --> Randuin's --> etc.
Pretty much the same thing. Lanemumu does have farm issues especially if he's babysitting (and his autoattack animation is HORRIBLE for last hits) so I could definitely advocate 2xHoG. Build as tanky as necessary. Considering CDR? Read above.
Above is outdated. Grab a Philostone and stay in lane forever. Also Aegis if no one else on your team grabs it. The rest of the tanky build is pretty much the same as the above updated jungling Amumu build.
Utahime's Lanemumu
Disclaimer from Utahime:
I'd not recommend it
1) without proper defense runes and 21 defense mastery and
2) against AP heroes 1v1, Amumu's more of an anti-phys specialist in lane
He can still punish players with bad reaction speed and such but it's pretty difficult to outlast most sustained magic harass.
An AP powerhouse, use this build to take advantage of Amumu's insane AP ratios on his Bandage Toss, Ult, and Tantrum. You can even solo a lane quite nicely with this build, though I would not recommend it for newer players as it requires some skillshot and harass finesse. Also your team may yell at you/not let you 'cause they'll think you're trolling. Fuck 'em 'cause you're NOT.
Items
Regrowth pendant + pot --> Philostone --> Merc Treads --> Abyssal --> Sunfire/Deathcap/Hourglass --> Whatever.
Skill order: Max E first, though you probably want to be maxing Q after getting a point in W because Q has a better ratio, and does decent damage at max level. You'll be needing it for harass/ganks/stuns on the lower cooldown.
Amumu is still fairly naturally tanky and will survive decently in teamfights, however running around with Despair on will get you killed a lot quicker than with a full tank build. Also important to note, is that this build really works so well because of how OP Philostone is right now; it allows Amumu to shrug off harass even easier than usual. When they nerf it, this build will probably become a lot less viable. It may be possible to do this with Catalyst--> RoA instead, but I doubt it works as well.
Midgame
Ok some turrets are down, some lanes have been lost/won, and it's time to roam. At this point you want to stay with your team. 'What a novel idea!' you say, 'A tank that stays to tank for his team!' I can't emphasize this enough. Amumu is almost ALWAYS the difference between a won or lost teamfight. Your Ult still has a long cooldown here, so if your team can afford to let you hog Blue (I insist on it a lot of the time...even when I know I shouldn't) go for it. You'll be able to keep Despair toggled on almost indefinitely and as soon as you catch someone out of position Q on low cooldown means a quick kill while still having it up to chase soon after or initiate if necessary. You can solo dragon easy but it may take a while. Bring your team over and force fights on dragon as well...spammable AoE plus percentage-based AoE means no one is safe, not even tanks. Farm minion waves during lulls in action if you're absolutely SURE a teamfight will not be happening. Amumu farms extremely well mid and lategame and easily makes up for any lack of gold from early game. Your tank items will come very quickly when your CS is above 250.
Lategame
You have your Randuin's, you have your Banshee's, you have 3k health and 200+armor/Mres. DIVE LIKE A BOSS. You laugh at turret fire while you wrap your enemies in cursed bandages. Make sure you are the first one to enter a fight ALWAYS. Your opponents will be avoiding you like the plague---don't let them. The more time spent focusing you to cease that infernal sniveling, the more time you team can wail on theirs (no pun intended). Be careful because a blown ult is a MAJOR screwup for Amumu. He is a game-changer one way or the other; make sure it's in your favor.
Tips + Tricks
These may seem pretty intuitive but I figure I'll get a few of these out there:
- Bandage toss will pull you through walls. Enemy team fighting at Dragon? Fly through the wall an open up a can of whoop-ass while your team filters in through the other side.
- On that note, if you're running away from an enemy champion, through the jungle or otherwise, you can use your Bandage toss to get further ahead of your opponent or latch onto a jungle creep and fly through a wall to safety.
- Boots 3 and Rylai's turns you into an unstoppable chasing and killing machine. Just turn on [W] and watch them die. Flash to escape? No problem. Bandage toss and continue to pour on the hurt. Only recommended for fun or troll builds.
- If you're caught in a lane on your own and you're about to be turret dived, use Q or R to stun them in turret range after you feign running away. This is often a quick and easy kill or at the very least stalls until your team can come help.
- A dead Amumu with 4 dead on their side means you're doing your job properly. Sit back and laugh while their turrets fall like rain. As your skill increases, you'll learn when and how to retreat from a teamfight while staying alive and still managing to ace their team.
This is all I can think of for now; it's pretty comprehensive as you can tell. There are not a lot of hard numbers and theorycrafting here, but I can do it and will if people ask for it.
Amumu is one of my absolute most favorite champions and he remains an excellent pick all the way up to high levels of ELO. He is hard as hell to take down, and fun as hell to play. Use him well, summoners.
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United States47024 Posts
Build needs more HoGs. Two is standard, and up to three is still very reasonable. I'd very rarely only get 1.
I don't see CDR boots being that good, only Q truly benefits from it--you're still only gonna have 1 R per teamfight, and E gets more CDR from people hitting you than it does from itemized CDR.
Also, I think Amumu is sturdy enough in the jungle at this point that 1/8/21 is a reasonable mastery setup. I'd still start 1/14/15, but that's because I think stacking E's passive with Harden Skin is awesome.
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United States37500 Posts
Nice guide, WoS.
For Jungle Amumu, I set up just like you. But item-wise, Cloth + 5 hp pots => Boots => HoG => HoG => Merc Treads/Tab => Sunfire first typically, if need more MR, perhaps a Negatron => Banshee => Rylai's => Void Staff
In a late game slugfest, the utility of Rylai's slow and more Magic Pen for W ensures quick fights if the enemy doesn't focus you down. If they do focus you, more attack time for your carries. Despair wins late game fights like no other.
Finish Randuin's if you need more armor for some reason but usually you don't.
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Do you think it's worth dropping a HoG for Aegis if nobody else is getting it?
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Yeah Neo with regards to BV before Sunfire I guess I should have stated somewhere that it really just depends on the game. After the boots and HoG I really just go with the flow and build whatever will counter the opposing team best; either more armor or Mres.
Do you think it's worth dropping a HoG for Aegis if nobody else is getting it?
When I first started out on Amumu I used to get it; I'm personally not such a fan of Aegis itself. It eats up a lot of gold that Amumu really needs otherwise early game, and lategame Aegis is pretty lackluster.
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I disagree with amumu being good at high level but for crushing up to like 1500 he's fine.
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Since mumu does so much better in jungle now, here's a wraithjack path I just worked out:
cloth + pots, e first
Start at their wraiths, smite big wraith and use e twice + autoattacks to kill two of the remaining three.
Your wolves, use e twice to kill big wolf ASAP then finish off the last two. Start using pots here.
Take w and kill blue with it, along with one e
Kill wraiths with e, toggle w to finish them off. You can take either e or w at this point, it doesn't seem to make much of a difference.
Start minigolems with an e, then do the rest with w
Go to red and start killing it with w, throw down e twice asap to kill the lizards so you can level and not die.
TP back with ~100hp at ~4:40 and buy boots or hog or something.
yeah this is probably retarded isn't it.
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iirc, its better not to initiate with amumu, rather use his ult during the fight
i haven't seen an mumu for a long time tho
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On February 18 2011 12:34 HeavOnEarth wrote:
iirc, its better not to initiate with amumu, rather use his ult during the fight
i haven't seen an mumu for a long time tho
That really depends on your Team. Amumus ult is normally a setup for everyone elses, if your Team is uncoordinated enough it might be worth it to save the ult to keep their carries away from your squishies.
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What do you think of my super-carry fed Amumu build:
Mercs>Sunfire>Banshees>Rylais>Zonyas>Abyssal
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United States47024 Posts
Abyssal is actually not a bad choice if your team is doing well/needs damage.
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On February 19 2011 02:55 TheYango wrote:
Abyssal is actually not a bad choice if your team is doing well/needs damage.
Abyssal is slowly becoming my favorite "I have extra money and i'm going to need MR" item on tankier champions. The ability to get a survival item which increases the damage of your team's casters while working with your own (good) ratios without endangering yourself is pretty amazing.
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On February 18 2011 06:31 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
I disagree with amumu being good at high level but for crushing up to like 1500 he's fine.
And your reasoning behind this is?...
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United States47024 Posts
On February 19 2011 03:24 Niton wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2011 02:55 TheYango wrote:
Abyssal is actually not a bad choice if your team is doing well/needs damage. Abyssal is slowly becoming my favorite "I have extra money and i'm going to need MR" item on tankier champions. The ability to get a survival item which increases the damage of your team's casters while working with your own (good) ratios without endangering yourself is pretty amazing.
With Amumu in particular, it works nicely with his passive. Being able to give your AP guys 55 flat pen is just awesome midgame.
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On February 19 2011 03:26 EpicPleasure wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2011 06:31 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
I disagree with amumu being good at high level but for crushing up to like 1500 he's fine. And your reasoning behind this is?...
He gets crushed too easily in the jungle. It's like Fiddle - predictable path (especially with Clairvoyance) and a complete inability to fight in his jungle. You can't do anything about Shaco or Warwick or Udyr or Olaf just running into your jungle and stealing everything in sight.
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On February 19 2011 04:08 dnastyx wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2011 03:26 EpicPleasure wrote:On February 18 2011 06:31 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
I disagree with amumu being good at high level but for crushing up to like 1500 he's fine. And your reasoning behind this is?... He gets crushed too easily in the jungle. It's like Fiddle - predictable path (especially with Clairvoyance) and a complete inability to fight in his jungle. You can't do anything about Shaco or Warwick or Udyr or Olaf just running into your jungle and stealing everything in sight.
So why was he a first-ban not too long ago?
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On February 19 2011 04:13 -Kato- wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2011 04:08 dnastyx wrote:On February 19 2011 03:26 EpicPleasure wrote:On February 18 2011 06:31 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
I disagree with amumu being good at high level but for crushing up to like 1500 he's fine. And your reasoning behind this is?... He gets crushed too easily in the jungle. It's like Fiddle - predictable path (especially with Clairvoyance) and a complete inability to fight in his jungle. You can't do anything about Shaco or Warwick or Udyr or Olaf just running into your jungle and stealing everything in sight. So why was he a first-ban not too long ago?
It's a combination of Amumu being weaker now than he was then and the game evolving away from AoE. I think Amumu actually might stand a chance as a ranked jungler again with the buffs to his W and E, but he probably won't reach the kind of strength he used to have.
Also Rylai's Amumu is super pro.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 19 2011 04:51 Niton wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2011 04:13 -Kato- wrote:On February 19 2011 04:08 dnastyx wrote:On February 19 2011 03:26 EpicPleasure wrote:On February 18 2011 06:31 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
I disagree with amumu being good at high level but for crushing up to like 1500 he's fine. And your reasoning behind this is?... He gets crushed too easily in the jungle. It's like Fiddle - predictable path (especially with Clairvoyance) and a complete inability to fight in his jungle. You can't do anything about Shaco or Warwick or Udyr or Olaf just running into your jungle and stealing everything in sight. So why was he a first-ban not too long ago? It's a combination of Amumu being weaker now than he was then and the game evolving away from AoE. I think Amumu actually might stand a chance as a ranked jungler again with the buffs to his W and E, but he probably won't reach the kind of strength he used to have. Also Rylai's Amumu is super pro.
The other thing to consider is that some of the stronger counterjunglers weren't that common. Post-nerf Shaco was severely underplayed, Nunu was still "mediocre", and people hadn't realized that Eve wasn't terrible.
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United States37500 Posts
Amumu's a viable pick now. You guys are donks if you think he isn't. WE combo, he can do any camp. In that aspect, what jungler isn't predictable, especially with CV.
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Yeah I've never understood the "predictable" argument. Everybody runs basically the same path (Blue -> small golems) on every jungler but Shaco unless they get counter-jungled or something. The two major things holding Amumu back were his dependency on blue and the fact that he got pretty low on HP while doing the usual path and both of those were helped somewhat by this latest buff.
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I would say he doesn't have the burst damage that other junglers have to secure the buff. He just has w, which is easy to interrupt without protection
Udyr - Q
Olaf - Q or W? I don't play him
Trundle - Q
Yi - Q
Nasus - Q
Nunu - Q
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On February 19 2011 08:22 arnath wrote:
Yeah I've never understood the "predictable" argument. Everybody runs basically the same path (Blue -> small golems) on every jungler but Shaco unless they get counter-jungled or something. The two major things holding Amumu back were his dependency on blue and the fact that he got pretty low on HP while doing the usual path and both of those were helped somewhat by this latest buff.
I run at least a wraith jack when I jungle. Only a miniscule amount of junglers at 1200-1400 actually counter jungle. If Amumu doesn't get his jungle disrupted then he is an absolute pimp.
I loved seeing Amumu jungle on the enemy team before the buff because it meant free first blood, haven't jungled against him since the patch though.
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United States47024 Posts
I think people honestly overstate how "predictable" Amumu is. While starting at blue certainly is ideal, he can reasonably wraith jack, start at your team's wraiths, or minigols while maintaining decent speed. He can't start at red or do more aggressive counterjungling starts, but he doesn't need to, because he's definitely a stronger mid/lategame champion than junglers that are stronger than him early.
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Wow watching jiji's stream just now, Lilballz on mumu cleared jungle in 4:00 (with some help at blue tho) and had enough hp for double buff gank and got fb for his team. Maybe it was because of the help at blue, but if I recall correctly, before minions MR buff mumu couldnt rly do complete jungle and have enough hp for safe gank? did his recent buff change that much? I've never ran armor runes on him tho, but I did go 1-14-15, think that might make a difference?
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Mumu is pretty much the easiest champ to fit on a team, solo queue wise. Stun, AoE disable, can jungle, can tank...
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On February 20 2011 01:01 ManBearPig wrote:
Wow watching jiji's stream just now, Lilballz on mumu cleared jungle in 4:00 (with some help at blue tho) and had enough hp for double buff gank and got fb for his team. Maybe it was because of the help at blue, but if I recall correctly, before minions MR buff mumu couldnt rly do complete jungle and have enough hp for safe gank? did his recent buff change that much? I've never ran armor runes on him tho, but I did go 1-14-15, think that might make a difference?
If you read the guide I outlined this specifically...he has a VERY fast jungle clear now and a very safe one. The buffs did make a difference to the damage he takes and the amount of mana he uses to dish out damage. Armor runes are the way to go to further reduce that damage.
Personally I prefer a safer gank so I go back and grab boots after clearing, but a quick gank after clearing is definitely viable.
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I definitely think that base for boots is the better play unless there is a good follow up disable in the lane you're ganking. So many amumu ganks turn into chasing with w/e for the final bit of hp that boots are very key.
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United States47024 Posts
I think some discussion needs to be done with Dan Dinh's Amumu path:
Masteries: 0/21/9
Runes: ArPen marks, Dodge seals, MR/lvl glyphs, HP quints (obviously a bit awkward for Amumu--it's a general page for tanky champs, could probably be tweaked a bit for better results)
Item start: Sapphire Crystal + 2pots
Route: Wraiths->Wolves->Blue->Minigols->Wraiths->Wolves->bluepill
I was extremely surprised by how much the path cleared off only two HP pots. It delays your gank for quite a while, as you don't pick up red buff until after your first bluepill, but lets you stay on-level with the solo lanes for quite a good length of time. Probably the one thing that bothers me is that it doesn't seem doable with more utility-centered masteries--I tried completing it with 1/14/15 masteries, and had to bluepill after minigols.
It also seems relatively resilient to counterjungling compared to a normal start, in part because of how unexpected it is, and in part due to how the route works out--you can stop wraith jacks by being there at the start, you spend less time doing blue than if you did it at level 1, delay minigols long enough that if they get jacked at the start, they'll respawn by the time you get there, and do red safely because you do it after you bluepill and come back with full HP, items, and pots.
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I'll have to give that one a try.
Lately I've been opting for the fastest gank routes every time because I'm used to having to save bad top/bottom lanes, but this one seems like an excellent way to prevent counterjungling.
I guess with all the extra mana from mana crystal you can spam E more? That's the only way I could see this doable on 2 hp pots...
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The biggest advantage is the fast catalyst.
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On February 20 2011 13:47 TheYango wrote:
I think some discussion needs to be done with Dan Dinh's Amumu path:
Masteries: 0/21/9
Runes: ArPen marks, Dodge seals, MR/lvl glyphs, HP quints (obviously a bit awkward for Amumu--it's a general page for tanky champs, could probably be tweaked a bit for better results)
Item start: Sapphire Crystal + 2pots
Route: Wraiths->Wolves->Blue->Minigols->Wraiths->Wolves->bluepill
I was extremely surprised by how much the path cleared off only two HP pots. It delays your gank for quite a while, as you don't pick up red buff until after your first bluepill, but lets you stay on-level with the solo lanes for quite a good length of time. Probably the one thing that bothers me is that it doesn't seem doable with more utility-centered masteries--I tried completing it with 1/14/15 masteries, and had to bluepill after minigols.
It also seems relatively resilient to counterjungling compared to a normal start, in part because of how unexpected it is, and in part due to how the route works out--you can stop wraith jacks by being there at the start, you spend less time doing blue than if you did it at level 1, delay minigols long enough that if they get jacked at the start, they'll respawn by the time you get there, and do red safely because you do it after you bluepill and come back with full HP, items, and pots.
Bashed my head against the wall for almost an hour in practice games trying to figure out this path, came as close as taking down one twin before dying. Had to take E first, wait until smite cooldown was at 15 seconds before taking golem, and ran 1/21/8, but I don't have dodge seals, only health quints and MR blues. Am I missing something else? Replays would be nice..
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On February 20 2011 18:26 Aduromors wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2011 13:47 TheYango wrote:
I think some discussion needs to be done with Dan Dinh's Amumu path:
Masteries: 0/21/9
Runes: ArPen marks, Dodge seals, MR/lvl glyphs, HP quints (obviously a bit awkward for Amumu--it's a general page for tanky champs, could probably be tweaked a bit for better results)
Item start: Sapphire Crystal + 2pots
Route: Wraiths->Wolves->Blue->Minigols->Wraiths->Wolves->bluepill
I was extremely surprised by how much the path cleared off only two HP pots. It delays your gank for quite a while, as you don't pick up red buff until after your first bluepill, but lets you stay on-level with the solo lanes for quite a good length of time. Probably the one thing that bothers me is that it doesn't seem doable with more utility-centered masteries--I tried completing it with 1/14/15 masteries, and had to bluepill after minigols.
It also seems relatively resilient to counterjungling compared to a normal start, in part because of how unexpected it is, and in part due to how the route works out--you can stop wraith jacks by being there at the start, you spend less time doing blue than if you did it at level 1, delay minigols long enough that if they get jacked at the start, they'll respawn by the time you get there, and do red safely because you do it after you bluepill and come back with full HP, items, and pots. Bashed my head against the wall for almost an hour in practice games trying to figure out this path, came as close as taking down one twin before dying. Had to take E first, wait until smite cooldown was at 15 seconds before taking golem, and ran 1/21/8, but I don't have dodge seals, only health quints and MR blues. Am I missing something else? Replays would be nice..
What are you running in yellow? Mitigation yellows make a huge difference in jungling, regardless of whether they're armor or dodge.
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I think armor yellows are much better than dodge yellows. Amumus E makes you take less damage, and reduces cooldown when hit right? So when you dodge you dont get that 0,5 sec E reduction, that makes you jungle slower.
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from what i know, armor is better and more importantly consistent in jungling, whereas dodge is better in teamfights and overall use
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Btw with amumu, it helps a lot to have mid "leash" the blue buff
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United States47024 Posts
On February 20 2011 18:26 Aduromors wrote:
Bashed my head against the wall for almost an hour in practice games trying to figure out this path, came as close as taking down one twin before dying. Had to take E first, wait until smite cooldown was at 15 seconds before taking golem, and ran 1/21/8, but I don't have dodge seals, only health quints and MR blues. Am I missing something else? Replays would be nice..
I got the path to work with 0/21/9 and my standard runepage. I could probably work with less defensive masteries if I were using armor marks (which seem to be the most sensible marks to run this path with).
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I just run my armor page (with mp5 blues). Start with 70something armor gg
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On February 20 2011 13:47 TheYango wrote:
I think some discussion needs to be done with Dan Dinh's Amumu path:
Masteries: 0/21/9
Runes: ArPen marks, Dodge seals, MR/lvl glyphs, HP quints (obviously a bit awkward for Amumu--it's a general page for tanky champs, could probably be tweaked a bit for better results)
Item start: Sapphire Crystal + 2pots
Route: Wraiths->Wolves->Blue->Minigols->Wraiths->Wolves->bluepill
I was extremely surprised by how much the path cleared off only two HP pots. It delays your gank for quite a while, as you don't pick up red buff until after your first bluepill, but lets you stay on-level with the solo lanes for quite a good length of time. Probably the one thing that bothers me is that it doesn't seem doable with more utility-centered masteries--I tried completing it with 1/14/15 masteries, and had to bluepill after minigols.
It also seems relatively resilient to counterjungling compared to a normal start, in part because of how unexpected it is, and in part due to how the route works out--you can stop wraith jacks by being there at the start, you spend less time doing blue than if you did it at level 1, delay minigols long enough that if they get jacked at the start, they'll respawn by the time you get there, and do red safely because you do it after you bluepill and come back with full HP, items, and pots.
It's resilient to counterjungling to start, but (as far as I can do it) your entire path after minigols is spent at under 250 health... I can't imagine that's safe against someone who would want to gank you normally at red like shaco or maybe fiddle. You're going to be in about the same position at about the same time, doing slightly different things with much less health.
I dunno, I haven't ever seen it done so maybe I'm doing it all wrong. Anyone got a VOD of the path?
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I use attack speed red, armor yellow, mr blues, flat health quints, basically a standard jungle page. I don't run magic pen because it doesn't help your jungle whereas attack speed does, a lot.
Mumu does tons of damage natively, your weak point is your early game and getting ganked while farming... so use your runes to cover that.
I also assume that attack speed must be balanced to add more raw damage than armor pen because pen doesn't rely on your opponent standing in range and getting hit multiple times. Haven't done the math but I'm pretty sure this is true.
1/17/12 masteries, start whereever. My two most common routes are blue first, start with W and clear, or E first, wraiths --> wolves --> blue -- > twin gols -- > red, and then wraiths again before B if I'm feeling greedy.
I always max W first because it's just way better than your other spells.
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Attack speed reds (and arpen too, for that matter) speed you up by ~5 sec, but that's it. I think MPen is a much much better choice.
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well, clear time, w/e, it's about a 100 hp difference clearing from blue, just tested it
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tell people to leash blue! you shouldn't "test" jungle routes without someone there to do that, because e u can get a leash everygame
therefore u can get more optimal builds, without having to use armor/21 in defense(probably not on amumu but who knows!) etc to compensate for soloing blue
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Amumu crying for the dead... HE KILLED
![[image loading]](http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/6461/dibujowud.jpg)
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wtf penta with 50 ap..
real
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On March 03 2011 01:23 HeavOnEarth wrote:
wtf penta with 50 ap..
real
sunfire cape > 50 ap
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Timer and score cropped out. Why do anything to make it seem less legit?.
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wat, its not cropped out, if you view source you can see it
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wat ninja edit in my face pow double kill
edit: more importantly, a penta with Amumu is always worth rofling at. So, rofl.
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It was AoE hell, Jarvan ulted, Annie ulted, Renekton ulted, and then I Bandaged Tossed in with 40% hp. As you can see by my ultimate CD time I didn't even ult, OP tears.
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On March 03 2011 02:55 -Kato- wrote:
It was AoE hell, Jarvan ulted, Annie ulted, Renekton ulted, and then I Bandaged Tossed in with 40% hp. As you can see by my ultimate CD time I didn't even ult, OP tears.
mumu penta with no ult
real...
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I'd guess it was vs. bots.
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Not bots, don't take my penta away from me, I cried like a boss.
Look at the corpses, Jarvan bot?
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On February 22 2011 08:00 HeavOnEarth wrote:
tell people to leash blue! you shouldn't "test" jungle routes without someone there to do that, because e u can get a leash everygame
therefore u can get more optimal builds, without having to use armor/21 in defense(probably not on amumu but who knows!) etc to compensate for soloing blue
If a leash makes the difference between success and being executed it's probably too weak of jungling path to risk. On the other hand, if you finish a path with 100 HP in normal testing you know that you probably want a leash just to get, say, another 200 HP to be safer overall. If you finish it with 200-300 HP a leash could even let you gank after a full clear. If you finish at full maybe a leash could let you run with one less pot and get madreds on your first B or something. But if a leash is required to even survive? Bleh, you probably need to rethink how safe your jungling is.
That said the only yellows I can imagine anyone replacing armor with would be attack speed.
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ganking with 300 HP is the easiest way to give the opposing solo a free kill. especially with amumu who has to be close to do damage
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he's saying if without a leash you end with 300 HP, a leash could let you be high enough to gank after that route.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
the most proficient jungle path is 1-8-21 masteries if anyone was curious. the runes listed in OP are fine.
with amumu your ganks are very sparse and you should have to blow ghost on everyone so pick and choose wisely. for this reason I dont get boots until after I complete 2 HoG which is surprisingly fast with smite spam.
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Well, Elementz' tier list has just confirmed what most of us were probably already suspecting: Amumu is a very strong champ right now. So much so, I'm predicting that within the week he will have taken Rammus' place in the permaban list, right beside Shen.
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Oh, if Elementz tier list confirmed it then it has to be 100% legit 
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On March 11 2011 07:10 Kaniol wrote:Oh, if Elementz tier list confirmed it then it has to be 100% legit
haha, you'll admit it has a certain sway over popular opinion and trends in the metagame though :p
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Lanemumu
Don't let people boss you around and stick you in the jungle, 'cuz that's not where you belong o/
Note: they just nerfed it a bit, assholes. Still looking for new alternative to HoG.
0/21/9 (greed), I run triple gold quints but now that they killed HoG you might wanna just switch back to armor quints. Not sure. armor red yellow mr blue. Ignite/Ghost.
Open Regrowth + Pot, get PStone ASAP (needed for the mana during laning)
PStone -> ChainVest(maybe?) -> Abyssal -> whatever the f you want. E -> W -> E -> Q and after that adjust your skillbuild based on enemy (E to lower damage, W to hit tank enemies harder, etc.) I usually leave Q for last just because I don't need its CD as much but it's not bad to have.
As long as you make your Q land, or if they're retarded and let you get in range, E + W should be able to chop down their HP, and at 6 Q E W R Ignite will generally smash people in hilarious ways. Plus, if you fuck up and die a bit, it doesn't matter, because you're Amumu, most OP hero in the game. HitR2Win. Ideally build AP (Deathcap + Zhonya recommended) but make sure you don't let up too much on survival. You can actually hit 600 AP with like 200 armor and 150 MR.
If you're losing a lane feel free to wander off and grab jungles (bonus points if enemy jungle) whenever you can. Especially if you're like purple top and the jungler is bot when their golem spawns, you plough through that bitch like it's not there. I'll also randomly sneak off to take minigolem if I can when top blue. Mid is probably preferable though because you have less likelihood of being zoned out if you mess up, and the majority of solo mid heroes have sustained survival issues (whereas heroes that go top usually load up on sustainability, so it's a bit more hairy).
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pretty soon you'll be telling me that WW should be in lane too. stop trolling utah, just stop.
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Warwick SHOULD be in lane, but not when I'm lanemumu cuz then we double up on AP carries.
Edit:
Have we ever Jarman Mumu'd? I know you've Jarman'd with Turkey's Malz once cuz I remember the hilarious ult into puddle into quad kill >_o
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On April 13 2011 01:32 Mogwai wrote:
pretty soon you'll be telling me that WW should be in lane too. stop trolling utah, just stop.
not like WW with mp5 runes is bad in lane..
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On April 14 2011 00:52 Iplaythings wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2011 01:32 Mogwai wrote:
pretty soon you'll be telling me that WW should be in lane too. stop trolling utah, just stop. not like WW with mp5 runes is bad in lane..
you fucking noob, take smite and get back in the jungle!
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Yeah I guess it's about time I updated this to reflect the HoG changes...
Any thoughts people?
I've personally been opting for early Aegis since the destruction of Randuin's but now with the addition of Cloth Armor back into the recipe it may be viable again?
Thoughts on Philo Stone as an early jungle item from Regrowth + pot start?
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United States47024 Posts
On April 27 2011 06:27 WaveofShadow wrote:
Yeah I guess it's about time I updated this to reflect the HoG changes...
Any thoughts people?
I've personally been opting for early Aegis since the destruction of Randuin's but now with the addition of Cloth Armor back into the recipe it may be viable again?
Thoughts on Philo Stone as an early jungle item from Regrowth + pot start?
The problem with HoG as it stands now isn't that you're holding onto a cloth armor. The problem is that it takes a 6 minute chunk out of your already-fragile early game to simply become cost-effective.
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On April 27 2011 06:43 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 06:27 WaveofShadow wrote:
Yeah I guess it's about time I updated this to reflect the HoG changes...
Any thoughts people?
I've personally been opting for early Aegis since the destruction of Randuin's but now with the addition of Cloth Armor back into the recipe it may be viable again?
Thoughts on Philo Stone as an early jungle item from Regrowth + pot start? The problem with HoG as it stands now isn't that you're holding onto a cloth armor. The problem is that it takes a 6 minute chunk out of your already-fragile early game to simply become cost-effective.
That being my point...you used to be able to turn it into HoG to eventually become that Randuin's giving you much-needed armor and health early on while it slowly paid for itself. Now there is no gold/5 item for Amumu that will pay for itself without taking a chunk out of his early game tankiness, and unless he ganks well, he farms very slowly until higher levels meaning it takes longer for him to be effective.
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It's good luck to cry in your fountain while buying items, imo.
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On April 27 2011 06:27 WaveofShadow wrote:
Yeah I guess it's about time I updated this to reflect the HoG changes...
Any thoughts people?
I've personally been opting for early Aegis since the destruction of Randuin's but now with the addition of Cloth Armor back into the recipe it may be viable again?
Thoughts on Philo Stone as an early jungle item from Regrowth + pot start?
Just open Sapphire -> Cata -_-
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I almost think the return of cloth armor to randuins justifies going cloth, boots, hog, whatever else, getting randuins eventually. I dunno. When I play mumu I find the sooner I get some health the better.
Although fast cata might be better now. Must test.
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I want to try hextech revolver jungle amumu. I heard it'z good
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imba survivability yo
Plus it builds into Will of the Ancients for more team support Hextech Gunblade for more imba deeeeeps.
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United States47024 Posts
On April 28 2011 01:51 Two_DoWn wrote:
I almost think the return of cloth armor to randuins justifies going cloth, boots, hog, whatever else, getting randuins eventually. I dunno. When I play mumu I find the sooner I get some health the better.
Although fast cata might be better now. Must test.
IMO with HoG nerfs (and holding onto HoGs not being that great), there's not that much reason to get Randuin's over Sunfire.
Aegis->Mercs->Sunfire/BVeil seems to be the way to go, IMO. I still don't understand why people are so opposed to Aegis.
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On April 28 2011 04:34 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 01:51 Two_DoWn wrote:
I almost think the return of cloth armor to randuins justifies going cloth, boots, hog, whatever else, getting randuins eventually. I dunno. When I play mumu I find the sooner I get some health the better.
Although fast cata might be better now. Must test. IMO with HoG nerfs (and holding onto HoGs not being that great), there's not that much reason to get Randuin's over Sunfire. Aegis->Mercs->Sunfire/BVeil seems to be the way to go, IMO. I still don't understand why people are so opposed to Aegis.
Aegis means you and your team gets completely nice "allround defense", however what I personally dislike about Aegis is that you lack the whole "I need to stack Mres OR Armor to be usefull vs their most farmed/fed carry".
When I rush Aegis on Jungletanks I feel as if my "Tanky core" is delayed by 2k gold.
When I rush Aegis on tanky dps like Jarman or Nasus I feel as if my "DPS core" (aka Triforce) is delayed by 2k gold.
While the stats itself are amazing it's just a complete "jack of all trades, master of none" item. Enough reason for me to only rush it when everything is completely boring and I don't expect lanes to fall apart soon.
On a second thought early failing lanes (=dead towers = more teamfights) might be actually a reason to get Aegis. I feel lost. Help. =(
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United States47024 Posts
On April 28 2011 04:56 r.Evo wrote:
While the stats itself are amazing it's just a complete "jack of all trades, master of none" item. Enough reason for me to only rush it when everything is completely boring and I don't expect lanes to fall apart soon.
I don't see this as an argument when Aegis is just THAT much better than everything else on cost-effectiveness (and doesn't pour gold into non-EHP stats). Add the appropriate baseline Armor/MR item to your Aegis, and you're just better off than if you built a more specialized higher-tier defense item.
Compare:
Aegis + Chain Vest -- 270 HP, 75 Armor, 39 MR for 2625 gold
OR
Aegis + Negatron Cloak -- 270 HP, 30 Armor, 87 MR for 2665 gold
vs.
Randuin's Omen -- 350 HP, 75 Armor, 25 hp5 for 3075 gold (minus whatever your HoG earns you)
OR
Banshee's Veil -- 375 HP, 50 MR for 2715 gold
You get arguably superior survivability stats for less gold, even against single-type damage sources like a fed AP/AD carry. Randuin's and Banshee's Veil also have their passives, but I'd say that the aura from Aegis is at least as good, if not better utility to have than the Randuin/BVeil passives.
The only real downside is that Aegis + Chain Vest/Negatron takes up 2 slots while Randuin/BVeil take one, and since you no longer tie down 2-3 slots by stacking HoGs, that's much less of a concern now.
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I'm kind of noob, but I build razor - > boots -> lantern -> glacial shards -> item based on enemy team comp.
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On May 03 2011 02:10 GiygaS wrote:
I'm kind of noob, but I build razor - > boots -> lantern -> glacial shards -> item based on enemy team comp.
Why build lantern or even razors on him? His spells clear jungle very fast as is and you are setting back your buy by ~2k (?) gold.
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On May 03 2011 02:10 GiygaS wrote:
I'm kind of noob, but I build razor - > boots -> lantern -> glacial shards -> item based on enemy team comp.
Yeah, you definitely should not buy Razors or Wriggle's on Amumu- you're just gimping yourself for teamfights and hurting your team for it.
I'm very much in favor of rushing Aegis- you get to start with cloth armor + 5 pots, and you get an item that is very efficient in its defensive stats for its cost PLUS you give everyone on your team 12 armor (worth 200g), 15 MRes (worth 250g), and 8 AD (worth up to 332g, less than that if you don't much care about AD e.g. casters in general), so stats worth roughly as much as 3 to 4 dragon kills in gold for everyone on your team. That's pretty huge IMO.
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So what are the viable starting items for jungle mumu now?
Is cloth+5pot the only viable opener?
I like aegis but it felt like my gold farm was significantly decreased from the HoG nerf. Would it be possible to open regrowth into philo for the jungle?
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On May 03 2011 03:58 BloodNinja wrote:
So what are the viable starting items for jungle mumu now?
Is cloth+5pot the only viable opener?
I like aegis but it felt like my gold farm was significantly decreased from the HoG nerf. Would it be possible to open regrowth into philo for the jungle?
Sapphire + 2 pots works, but you have to take a different jungle route because you need to return to the fountain earlier- still should have enough gold to buy boots though.
Typically a first jungle run will last between roughly 2:00 and 3:40, so in those 100 seconds a regrowth pendant will regen 300 HP, plus one health pot, that comes up to 500 HP so slightly more total healing than Sapphire + 2 pots, so I guess it could also work.
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On May 03 2011 04:06 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 03:58 BloodNinja wrote:
So what are the viable starting items for jungle mumu now?
Is cloth+5pot the only viable opener?
I like aegis but it felt like my gold farm was significantly decreased from the HoG nerf. Would it be possible to open regrowth into philo for the jungle? Sapphire + 2 pots works, but you have to take a different jungle route because you need to return to the fountain earlier- still should have enough gold to buy boots though. Typically a first jungle run will last between roughly 2:00 and 3:40, so in those 100 seconds a regrowth pendant will regen 300 HP, plus one health pot, that comes up to 500 HP so slightly more total healing than Sapphire + 2 pots, so I guess it could also work.
Hmmm, I may have to try this. It had been awhile since I played amumu in a a game so maybe I just was not used to it. It jsut felt like my gold had taken a serious hit from my memories of getting a HoG or 2 upfront.
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On May 03 2011 03:58 BloodNinja wrote:
So what are the viable starting items for jungle mumu now?
Is cloth+5pot the only viable opener?
I like aegis but it felt like my gold farm was significantly decreased from the HoG nerf. Would it be possible to open regrowth into philo for the jungle?
I've been opening regrowth+1pot for amumu jungle for a while now. The only problem with that opener is that you pretty much have to start at blue, otherwise you have serious mana problems. I tried doing the small golems -> wraiths -> wolves -> recall route, but I find that sometimes I'm too low on mana after the first wraiths camp and it takes too long to complete wolves and I have to recall before wolves.
Starting at blue though, is completely fine as with regrowth+1pot you have plenty of hp to complete the jungle run, especially if you have your teammates help you at blue.
I don't like going cloth+5pot because the cloth armor is more or less dead weight until/unless you get Randuins or Aegis, which I don't really like to do. Philo stone is also insane in that it lets you be much more active about ganking without blue pilling while not losing out on too much farm. I like going regrowth+1pot, then philo, boots, one hog, into w/e tank items I need; usually a sunfire + fon as the "core," with abyssal, frozen heart, randuins, banshees, etc... as needed depending on enemy team comp.
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I still have no issues opening cloth+pots and building aegis.
If counterjungled I can go twingols-wraiths-wolves or wolves-twingols-wraiths (obviously the first is preferable), use 1/2 pots and b with enough gold for boots and another pot or a ward.
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On May 03 2011 04:06 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 03:58 BloodNinja wrote:
So what are the viable starting items for jungle mumu now?
Is cloth+5pot the only viable opener?
I like aegis but it felt like my gold farm was significantly decreased from the HoG nerf. Would it be possible to open regrowth into philo for the jungle? Sapphire + 2 pots works, but you have to take a different jungle route because you need to return to the fountain earlier- still should have enough gold to buy boots though.
??????
I run Sapphire + 2 pots and jungle normally. In fact, a bunch of people have expressed surprise and dismay at start of games as I open this and go to blue and I laugh in their face when I come out the same. The only real issue is that it takes two passes to finish Cata (you get ~450 per pass on average) so you're offensively very slow or at risk.
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On May 04 2011 00:18 Southlight wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 04:06 Zato-1 wrote:On May 03 2011 03:58 BloodNinja wrote:
So what are the viable starting items for jungle mumu now?
Is cloth+5pot the only viable opener?
I like aegis but it felt like my gold farm was significantly decreased from the HoG nerf. Would it be possible to open regrowth into philo for the jungle? Sapphire + 2 pots works, but you have to take a different jungle route because you need to return to the fountain earlier- still should have enough gold to buy boots though. ?????? I run Sapphire + 2 pots and jungle normally. In fact, a bunch of people have expressed surprise and dismay at start of games as I open this and go to blue and I laugh in their face when I come out the same. The only real issue is that it takes two passes to finish Cata (you get ~450 per pass on average) so you're offensively very slow or at risk.
Can you do Blue -> Wolves -> Wraiths -> Golems -> Red before porting back if you start Sapphire + 2 pots? Because that's what I do when I open Cloth Armor + 5 pots, which lets me get boots, a ward and still have plenty left over for more pots on the first time back to base. That's what I mean by having to take a different jungle route.
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I don't remember if I do red before backing primarily because I prefer to have as high hp as possible when ganking, so I tend to favor leaving it open for when I actually am going to use it. But yes.
Edit:
First back always gets me the Ruby, which is why I said three passes to finish Cata.
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why would you do red if you go home before ganking? you waste 40 sec of the red buff..
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United States47024 Posts
On May 04 2011 06:05 freelander wrote:
why would you do red if you go home before ganking? you waste 40 sec of the red buff..
Prevent it from getting stolen/respawn timing?
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On May 04 2011 06:05 freelander wrote:
why would you do red if you go home before ganking? you waste 40 sec of the red buff..
Gank with full health as opposed to 60-80%?
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On April 13 2011 00:53 Southlight wrote:
Lanemumu
Mostly the same. Switched gold quints to flat armor, open Pstone into Abyssal into whatever, usually based on game and damage output. If I need armor then I'll get a relatively quick Funfire, otherwise straight to AP. Ideal armor item if you're not in a hurry is Hourglass, as the statue effect is hilarious on a tanky tank. You'll usually find that you have high armor/MR with the strat but die relatively quick anyways due to the low max HP, so you if you want you can try to supplement with Rod of Ages and such, but yeah. Sunfire or Rylai definitely increase survivability a fair bit from the HP but he'll hit like a truck if you get AP so it's a delicate balance :>
Also this strat confuses me, makes no sense, but is my #1 tryhard for some reason. Yeah, this game makes sense. umad, Ashe?
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Russian Federation3631 Posts
Hello -- pardon the nub question, but judging from the discussion am I to infer that jungle Amumu is not viable without a full rune set?
A lowly level 12 here, and I've had mixed results while laning with Amumu. Is jungling strictly better for this champ?
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jungling is better for him because he is not a big threat on lane.
there are champs who he can farm ok against in lane, but there are no champs he beats clearly.
in the jungle he can reliably farm with his aoe spells
edit:
you need armor runes on him to jungle. probably you cant do it without a lot of help on a lvl 12 account
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Jungling is imo stricktly better on him. I don't really know about jungling him at low level now tho.
I used to do it when i was around level 15, but that was quite a few patches ago. But with the leash change and some help from your team you should be able to do it. Once you get the blue buff it's piece of cake after, just recall before the red, buy boots, get lizard and gank.
Still best way to know is just try in a practice game
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On May 10 2011 17:10 419 wrote:
Hello -- pardon the nub question, but judging from the discussion am I to infer that jungle Amumu is not viable without a full rune set?
It's feasible, but not safe, prone to counterjungling, slow, and costly (from a gold perspective). Reasoning is fairly simple - compared to other junglers he doesn't have sustainability, so that his HP is always on a constant decline (as opposed to others than jungle and regain/stay stable). Proper runesets blunt this decline and make him proportionally safer, faster, and more flexible. Also, one of (if not) the best junglmumu openings is impossible without the proper runesets (Cata opening).
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To be fair, however, there is basically 0 chance of getting counterjungled if you're low summoner level. If you get t1 armor yellows + blues and some useful t1 reds and some mitigation from the defense tree you're fine (get a pull on blue). Ideally you'd wait till about level 20 though so you can get the exp mastery from utility and still get down the defense tree appreciably before jungling, but you can try earlier (it's a real pain not to have the exp mastery though because you won't hit level 1 after golem, nor level 4 after one full clear).
You will lose out on some item and path options by being lower level, but having a jungler is still probably on the whole better than not having one, at least in my experience.
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Alright I'll probably update this with Uta's builds if I try them later today...been a while since I really jungled on him.
I'm assuming Cata first ---> boots --> Aegis parts --> etc (Sunfire/BV/Abyssal/usual stuff)?
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My build is primarily for solo lane but you can do the same build jungle, just replace PStone with Cata.
Pstone -> Abyssal -> Deathcap/Funfire -> etc.
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I meant the jungle build not the LolAP one. :D
Edit: And wait, Amumu solo lane? My brain is breaking....
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You may laugh, and you may think my posts about lanemumu were jokes, but the majority of my ranked 5s have been solo lane Amumu and "lolAP" is actually the build I run. I just can't run it in solo queue because everyone has the same reaction and there's no way in hell I can secure that solo lane.
Pure tank Amumu is a waste and a crutch. This dude outputs stupid damage, and with the proper runeset comes with enough innate survivability, especially if you open with Catalyst in jungle because it actually starts you off with more innate tanking power than lanemumu.
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I, nay ALL OF TL demand replays.
I'm actually really interested in seeing how this works out before I troll my friends with it later.
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I don't demand replays because I see it first hand on an almost daily basis. It's pretty funny cause I almost always go Jungle Morde when he goes lane mumu and I don't think a single opposing team has seen the Jungle Morde + Solo Mumu coming :p.
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Bunch of LiquidParty has seen it because I break it out once in a while, and I've streamed ranked 5s several times.
On a side note, Smash, Ecael/Shiogi wants me to 1v1 your Jarvan with it, we're curious to see if I've just been mashing bad Jarvs or if he really beats Jarv as I think he does.
Edit:
Actually I have that stream somewhere with it, because I remember linking it in the lolvideos thread for that Smash = confused moment and the owned Nidalee.
http://www.livestream.com/utahime/video?clipId=pla_8b990311-24bf-486b-9f00-0122f7ea7785
A couple lanemumu games are there I think.
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ok, sure, we can test it out.
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I don't get it. But it works.
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On May 11 2011 03:54 dnastyx wrote:
I don't get it. But it works.
On May 10 2011 02:27 Southlight wrote:
Also this strat confuses me, makes no sense, but is my #1 tryhard for some reason. Yeah, this game makes sense. umad, Ashe?
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Update June 14:
Added Utahime's Lanemumu short guide and updated builds/use of Philostone over HoG.
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I'd not recommend it
1) without proper defense runes and 21 defense mastery and
2) against AP heroes 1v1, Amumu's more of an anti-phys specialist in lane
He can still punish players with bad reaction speed and such but it's pretty difficult to outlast most sustained magic harass.
Just an FYI 
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On May 11 2011 03:54 dnastyx wrote:
I don't get it. But it works.
well it sorta kinda works thru a combination of things, mostly being the crazy armor page that uta runs in addition to the passive on e means that with a bit of regen (catalyst or philo stone) you can essentially outlast pretty much any phys champ. i encountered a similar thing vs a solo top poppy who also ran armor runes and was essentially impossible to kill and could more/less farm with impunity. mummy has the added bonuses of being able to farm significantly better, and also falls under the catagory of champions who are terrifying when item-ed out, yet tend to not have much farm.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
amumu will beat anyone melee in lane, but then again so does rumble and people wont object to you taking the solo
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<3 Uta's AP Mumu build:
+ Show Spoiler +
Solo vs Annie and Gangplank, lose all 3 inhibitors, then just crush them in team fights with my ult when they try to push until we ace them twice and win game. Went from 10-10 to 19-10 in the last 15 mins of the game or something. Not a single person on the other team but Alistar had any MR of any kind.
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On June 27 2011 13:11 arnath wrote:<3 Uta's AP Mumu build: + Show Spoiler +Solo vs Annie and Gangplank, lose all 3 inhibitors, then just crush them in team fights with my ult when they try to push until we ace them twice and win game. Went from 10-10 to 19-10 in the last 15 mins of the game or something. Not a single person on the other team but Alistar had any MR of any kind.
No offense there, but I don't think those are exactly good examples as to why that build works....
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Who said it was a good example? It was just a funny game.
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Just wanted to add some of my thoughts, Iam only level 11 now and I wondered if its possible to Jungle with Amumu without any runes/deep masteries. I made it work with some tweaks, first you need enough Mastery Points do get down to the creep damage reduction. Second is that you must adjust your route in the jungle, its not possible to do blue first, you'll just die. I do it like this:
Pick smite&ghost, buy the usual 5 pots and cloth, tantrum first. Head to Wolfs, smite the big one and use tantrum two times, finish the small ones with auto hits. Then head to wraiths, half way there use a pot, get in and use tantrum whenever it is ready and keep the pot buff up. Head towards minigols and tantrum both, then smite the one youre autoattacking make sure that u use a pot when its necessary. Bluepill and buy boots(you should have saved 2 pots), do the same thing again and buy some pots, then do blue and red and hit someone in the face.
Obviously thats not interesting for anyone beyond level 20, but i just thought maybe theres someone out there who want to jungle with mumu and is not level 30. Its pretty funny if people ask you what jungle means, and why you do that kind of stuff :D
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You can do blue first with a pull at pretty close to level 11 if you have t1 armor yellows at least, because I've done jungle Amumu in some games on my smurf playing with my friend.
You can't do it without a pull obviously though, lol.
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Yeah with a pull its probably possible, but I just play solo atm(Friends are all 30 :D) and its nearly impossible to get someone in the game who knows what that means and can pull properly .
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On July 05 2011 10:32 freezaa wrote:Yeah with a pull its probably possible, but I just play solo atm(Friends are all 30 :D) and its nearly impossible to get someone in the game who knows what that means and can pull properly .
Just tell them
"Hey man can you pull the golem?"
"??? what you talk about"
"Stand here *ping where they should stand* and attack the golem when it spawns at 1.55"
In 80% of the cases they will most likely go all the way around, but sometimes you meet non-retarded people 
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Maybe I'll give it a shot one time , but for now Iam just happy that i found a way to jungle on my own with the mumu.
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Keep in mind that you also have freedom of taking enemy jungle creeps to boost lvl without engaging red/blue. Chances some1 will have jungle / cv / or just go check on their own creeps are close to 0 , BUT if you meet some1 lv30 who smurf your toast and should go to lane and stay there.
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This guy is definitely one of my favourite characters, I always either play Ezreal or Amumu (trying to learn Ez atm) but I found that being mega aggressive with him, with someone smart to back you up, you can do really well with him. I now roll with Exhaust + Ignite on him.
The build I do most games (balanced enemies) is: Elisha's miracle, boots of swiftness, sunfire cape, force of nature, abyssal sceptre, then rabadon's deathcap. I have Mpen reds, mp5/level yellows and flat cdr blues. Masteries: 9|0|21. Wins 80% of the time
What do you think?
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Wait so I was just rereading the OP and he says max e over w? Does everyone do that and I'm just doing it wrong?
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Most people do e>w, but don't worry, i go w>e because at my Elo people don't care about dragons that much
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I suppose I could understand the merits of w>e but spammable AoE + dmg reduction seems better to me than taking down jungle buffs really slowly. By the time you're doing Baron you'd have W maxed anyway.
And just to completely avoid sounding like an idiot in case there really is something I'm missing, some high elo namedropping! Dan Dinh does e>w. Doesn't make it right, I know, but....yeah.
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spud says to do 2 levels of w then max e
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United States47024 Posts
On July 08 2011 16:27 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Wait so I was just rereading the OP and he says max e over w? Does everyone do that and I'm just doing it wrong?
IMO it was debatable back when E was only 1 damage reduction per rank, but 10 passive reduction off of every autoattack is pretty freaking beastly early game, never mind the damage.
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anyone else think 0/21/9 is the best for jungle because you keep your hp higher? Also is apen better than mpen?
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I run 0/21/9. It's better because you're a tank and people hit you a lot even though you're a nice guy and didn't do anything to them. under other circumstances, I might say ArPen is better, but with mumu's passive, you have decent built in flat pen, so it's better to synergize off that IMHO. ArPen will clear jungle slightly faster though I guess.
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I run 1/21/8 smite mastery OP :O
for runes i just make sure i have armor yellows and mres/lvl blues. quints and reds are w/e i feel like atm lol
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You won't see any significant changes in jungling if you level W a bit or not. I just like having the extra damage for Lizard so i go W-E-W. The benefit of leveling it past that isn't that large though and tantrum is more useful in any early or midgame fights.
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amumu has so many viable choices for runes
reds - either u rune for faster jungle clear or u get armor to make yourself tankier,i find magic pen useless
faster jungle clear - 7 armor pen runes + 2 attack speed runes
12 armor pen and a little bit of AS to help u jungle faster
tanky - 9 flat armor
a pretty good way to get armor if u use dodge on yellows
yellows - defensive runes hands down
dodge - sorta counterproductive since ur E comes up faster the more times u get hit but dodge runes + dodge boots + nimbleness is sexy
armor - yellows + cloth armor + quints + masteries gives u retarded amounts of armor early game
blues - only 1 real choice
scaling mr beats pretty much anything on blue slot
quints - lots of things u can use to tweak amumu more to ur liking
faster jungle clear - 3 x attack speed with the faster jungle clear reds
tanky - 3 x flat armor or 3 x health quints
better ganks - 3 x ms quints walk up to ppl and ult them!
just my 2 cents
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i feel like amumu is ridiculously OP right now
i can't remember the last time i lost with him
lane or jungle, it doesn't matter
philo -> HoG -> aegis -> mercs -> deathcap/abyssal gives you 100armor/100MR, a fuckton of HP and decent regen, and enough AP to make you a SERIOUS threat to any carry.
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On July 16 2011 15:36 gtrsrs wrote:
i feel like amumu is ridiculously OP right now
i can't remember the last time i lost with him
lane or jungle, it doesn't matter
philo -> HoG -> aegis -> mercs -> deathcap/abyssal gives you 100armor/100MR, a fuckton of HP and decent regen, and enough AP to make you a SERIOUS threat to any carry.
How to lose games as Amumu: Carries focus 3 different people vs a 3 healer team and tell you this after they've done it twice (and didn't tell you the first time)
Also, Rylai's cool on Amumu too.
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On July 16 2011 16:04 Niton wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 15:36 gtrsrs wrote:
i feel like amumu is ridiculously OP right now
i can't remember the last time i lost with him
lane or jungle, it doesn't matter
philo -> HoG -> aegis -> mercs -> deathcap/abyssal gives you 100armor/100MR, a fuckton of HP and decent regen, and enough AP to make you a SERIOUS threat to any carry. How to lose games as Amumu: Carries focus 3 different people vs a 3 healer team and tell you this after they've done it twice (and didn't tell you the first time) Also, Rylai's cool on Amumu too.
I think rylai's cost too much to be anywhere in an amumu build. That abyssal is what you really want later on(especially when you consider that amumu is generally used on more AoE centric teams).
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On July 16 2011 16:04 Niton wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 15:36 gtrsrs wrote:
i feel like amumu is ridiculously OP right now
i can't remember the last time i lost with him
lane or jungle, it doesn't matter
philo -> HoG -> aegis -> mercs -> deathcap/abyssal gives you 100armor/100MR, a fuckton of HP and decent regen, and enough AP to make you a SERIOUS threat to any carry. How to lose games as Amumu: Carries focus 3 different people vs a 3 healer team and tell you this after they've done it twice (and didn't tell you the first time) Also, Rylai's cool on Amumu too.
yeah but when your bandage -> despair -> ult -> tantrum combo is doing half the health of everyone on the other team, your teammates can focus eachother for all you care, you just won the teamfight
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real men flash ult then get a guaranteed bandage off on their squishiest target
Also i run a 9-11-10 setup on mumu for the cdr/magicpen, the damageredux, and the buff duration/+xp
also MS quints are the best on mumu, hands down. Faster jungle clear by getting from camp to camp speedylike!
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ive been running dodgeboots almost religiously on amumu unless the opposite team has some ridiculous ap set-up with someone like corki or ez playing the ad carry (edit: or a fiddle.. lol)
usually run 1/21/8 or 0/21/9 masteries... i played around with 1/16/13 but i think the 21 defense is sexy as fock for the level 4 red gank since you have so much more hp coming out of the jungle.
running dodge yellows, armor reds, mr/level blues, 1 hp 2x ms quints
rush philo and tabi (usually get tabi + 1 hp pot after first jungle run). turn philo into miracle when i feel like i need the tenacity.
and then i just counterbuild tank items according to comp... if we're stomping then i'll go rylai's
should try out the early tabi... the t2 boots is reallly nice for your early ganks. and after reading dan dinh's guide on amumu, i tried out dodge seals... really sexy imo.
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I run jungle amumu with:
AD Quints and Reds
Dodge Seals
MR/Level Glyphs
WEEQE
0/21/9
Having the 1 in buff duration> smite mastery.
Start regrowth. blue>wolf>wraith>golems>b>(philo stone) red> gank.
With a good pull, amumu doesnt even need to pot in the run, its so good.
Currently on a 6 game win streak, 1570, works really well. If you can get ninja tabi, its fucking great. Also, dont be afraid to take red or blue from carries(that arent doing the best) cause with red and max tantrum, just fucking walk all over them and slow and everything.
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On July 31 2011 14:51 xJacky wrote:
I run jungle amumu with:
AD Quints and Reds
Dodge Seals
MR/Level Glyphs
WEEQE
0/21/9
Having the 1 in buff duration> smite mastery.
Start regrowth. blue>wolf>wraith>golems>b>(philo stone) red> gank.
With a good pull, amumu doesnt even need to pot in the run, its so good.
Currently on a 6 game win streak, 1570, works really well. If you can get ninja tabi, its fucking great. Also, dont be afraid to take red or blue from carries(that arent doing the best) cause with red and max tantrum, just fucking walk all over them and slow and everything.
You mean armor quints/reds and not AD right? If so, this is what I run as well. What are the pros/cons of armor quints vs flat health quints?
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what is everyone using for masteries on amumu jungle?
0/21/9 seems best imo. 0/9/21 utility is interesting too though
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Ugh guess I have to update this guy one of these days huh?
Now that all my Eve testing is done I suppose I can run through some Amumu jungle paths.
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I've been experimenting with solo top amumu, starting with +34 armor from runes (red,yellow,quints) and +13 mr (blues), leveling up e then q then w (don't know if w > q is better). Using pretty much full defensive masteries 5/25/0 with improved ap ignite, less dmg from minions, armor, mres, less dmg, cdr, health, regen, movespeed, less cc. Build philo stone, mercs and other situational items like abyssal rylais hourglass deathcap. Basically want resists and some hp to back it up with some ap.
With the massive defensive spec you can literally just sit in minion waves and auto and e your opponent and take almost no dmg back in harass.
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Was watching v8 Lexvink's stream the other day when he was playing a few Amumu games, and enjoyed how he (a) bought a WotA after his boots & GP/5s (admittedly, he was duo-queueing with TreeEskimo who was playing mid AP), & (b) maxxed Q first to get off more of them during skirmishes.
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I'll have to update with my masteries+runes when i get home because I don't fully remember them but i've been doing a semi AP/Tank Junglemumu as i've never had much success with a straight tank mumu as I seem to just do no damage.
W>E>Q then R>E>Q>W
Starting Items - Regrowth + HPot
Full build - Boots > Philo > HoG > WotA > Rylais > Shurelias > Randuins > Situational defense on last slot, usually ends up as Aegis/Scepter/Starks ~ You can change the ordering around a bit but this seems to work
21/9/0 Masteries
Red - 9x Magic Pen
Yel - 9x Armour
Blue - 9x AP/Lvl
Qui - 3x Flat AP
Again i don't remember what i have setup and will update later
Route, not set in stone, all depends on the lanes - Wolves, Blue, Wraiths, Golems, Wolves, Wraiths, Golems, BP+
Buy boots and wards go pick up red and gank if its open otherwise do another clear
I've played about 10~ish games with this setup and it's absolute beast, I understand at higher levels it probably won't work out too well but i've had games where i started out 0/2 but come back late game to carry the team through, with just the two "little" ap items your bandage tosses hit for 500 with 400 from tantrum and then tears and ulti your usually able to walk through most teams or at least get them low enough for your other carries to tear them apart.
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So...i tried solo top amumu and it feels like a really strong idea. Can trade with many people once he takes 0 damage from creeps and just autos the enemy to get creep aggro and then starts spamming E.
right now my core items are
boots -> philo -> merc/tabi -> revolver -> abyssal/rylai's (i get both of these but usually abyssal if there's a lot of AP) -> build shurelya's or one big defensive item depending on enemy team (frozen heart is a popular choice for me).
masteries 9/21/0
runes
mpen red armor yellow mr blue ap quints
teleport flash
does anyone else think lane amumu is a good idea? (top lane)
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On February 05 2012 16:22 wussleeQ wrote:
So...i tried solo top amumu and it feels like a really strong idea. Can trade with many people once he takes 0 damage from creeps and just autos the enemy to get creep aggro and then starts spamming E.
right now my core items are
boots -> philo -> merc/tabi -> revolver -> abyssal/rylai's (i get both of these but usually abyssal if there's a lot of AP) -> build shurelya's or one big defensive item depending on enemy team (frozen heart is a popular choice for me).
masteries 9/21/0
runes
mpen red armor yellow mr blue ap quints
teleport flash
does anyone else think lane amumu is a good idea? (top lane)
Well the OP to this thread does have southlight/utahimes lanemumu guide. But other than him I've never really heard of this idea being run successfully.
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I'm surprised you survive without full armor runes or starting cloth 5. When do you start being aggressive? And how do you deal with people like GP without armor?
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i'll probably go b and teleport back and get tabis asap and do my usual build into rylai's before abyssal. also, amumu does a HELL OF A LOT more damage when he autos first and then starts using his skills. and he does A LOT of damage with just 300 ap. 600 damage bandages are no joke lol. haven't had a bad game yet either :D
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I mean at level 1-5 not when you have 300 ap zzz
I'm sure it's easy to lane when you already have a full build
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well i said i go boots into tabi. if i'm getting wrecked i'd probably get a chainvest and continue with my build. build boots around their team and trade with them. if their creeps auto you enough you should be able to out dps them with a bunch of tantrums. until then, i just tantrum to harrass when i can if they try to go in for cs. sorry i'm not very good at writing about how i play >_<
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yeah I just couldn't picture boots 3 pot amumu with caster runes 1v1ing anyone so I thought you had a secret 13 pot start or something, haha. I'll have to see it to believe it, but if you're pulling it off at 1600 then it's probably not bad
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I'm still hanging onto mpen marks, armor seals, hp5 quints and either flat mres or scaling mres. Personally i like flat mres because amumu is so squishy for the first 10-12 lvls and that's about the point where scaling beats flat.
EWEQ, R > E > W > Q
0/21/9 taking everything that helps you jungling. I usually do not take the cdr/lvl mastery as i tend to go with cdr boots.
Simple standard route (wolves -> blue -> wraiths -> red -> golems -> wraiths). By the time you hit 4 you have 2 options. Pressure a lane or continue to farm with your blue untill it expires then recall for philo+boots etc.
Regrowth+1 pot -> Philo -> Hog -> cdr boots in between somewhere (you want these before lvl 11) -> rylai
I consider boots, rylai philo and hog core. From here on everything is viable. FoN is the best option for mres, but banshee's isn't bad either, i just don't like the item. Upgrade philo to reverie, upgrade hog to randuins.
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Why don't we see Amumu more often in pro matches? It seems like once it gets to late game, there isn't a single thing my team can do to theirs because of Amumu's large ult radius. If we try to spread out, we end up being too far apart and it seems like someone is left out.
Basically, how do you play vs an amumu?
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On February 13 2012 14:41 Prospero wrote:
Why don't we see Amumu more often in pro matches? It seems like once it gets to late game, there isn't a single thing my team can do to theirs because of Amumu's large ult radius. If we try to spread out, we end up being too far apart and it seems like someone is left out.
Basically, how do you play vs an amumu?
Amumu's early game is horrendous. His jungle path is extremely predictable and very easy to disrupt. He doesn't have much strength without items so strong counterjunglers like Lee Sin and Shyvana can easily ruin him. Also, Amumu ganks aren't very good either. Landing a Q can be pretty hard against good players who know how to dodge/bait it. Sure, he can blow his ulti, but his ult has one of the longest cooldowns in the game so that's not exactly ideal either.
If a team with Amumu does manage to get to mid/late game without getting too behind, then yes, Amumu can be pretty powerful with his ult. However, his ult is also pretty easily countered with QSS.
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I hate him, think he's just the most useless hero. When you pick amumu it's like you're saying 'please carry me'. The problem is that he's so all in with his hook that puts him right in the middle of the enemy team and his long ult cooldown and total lack of mobility that the risk vs reward reads like
Insane risk for huge reward
so if you're playing him properly you end up actually taking very few risks and only actually doing something when your teammates make a clearly good play and your opponents make a clearly poor one, so you are guaranteed the big reward. In other words your control over how the game goes is very weak because you have so little room to create openings for yourself.
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Is it that bad that he's a great tank for a double AP team? I mean, even if you get hardcore countered and are just a walking ulti, it makes things very easy for your LOTSADAMAGENOTMUCHCC champs like Vlad.
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Anyone tried running jungle Amumu with Spellvamp quints? Been using them for the good doctor, and figured they might translate well to the mummy. Also: any non-Lexvink people have much success with double gp/5 into WotA?
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I've done it sitting on just a revolver and it was fine for clearing sustain. I really don't think double gp10 wota is a good build because you are so soft that you're useless in fights since you die instantly. I'd sooner drop the hog, sit on revolver, and get some tankiness.
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Would you have enough mana/regen without the utility masteries on lanemumu? Going 10 offense is better for damage but the mana masteries are really nice.
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Maybe get chalice. On jungle mummy these days I go philo/boots into chalice into hog into chain vest negatron into force of nature shurelyas and beast peope. Philo chalice is basically as good as bluebuff since it got nerfed.
Spell vamp is really stupid on mummy since you need to be right next to people to do any damage and for a long time and spell vamp sucks on aoe spells that are only going to hit 1 person.
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On April 01 2012 19:32 Slayer91 wrote:
Maybe get chalice. On jungle mummy these days I go philo/boots into chalice into hog into chain vest negatron into force of nature shurelyas and beast peope. Philo chalice is basically as good as bluebuff since it got nerfed.
Spell vamp is really stupid on mummy since you need to be right next to people to do any damage and for a long time and spell vamp sucks on aoe spells that are only going to hit 1 person.
But, where is the AP in that build?!
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You can get deathcap or abyssal or void staff last item, but I feel like i need all these tank items to be good in teamfights instead of building AP just for ults. Maybe it's because I play him in normals with a bunch of LP heavies and just farm all day and have to like 1v5, perhaps in ranked I'd consider abyssal instead of force of nature. Sorc boots are an option as well if you have enough levels that your spells do damage.
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I've experimented a couple games with philo / hog / boots -> rilay's and its worked fine for me since you can slow people by crying all over them and in turn being able to cry over them even more. I prefer to take defensive boots, normally mercs, and after that I follow with more tankyness, though abysall would work fine vs ap heavy teams, and i'd probably get something like sunfire for ad heavy. that way i can go around dealing tons of deceiving damage while still having over 3k hp and having decent resistances. if my team has another tank i'd probably go aegis.
then again I only jungle amumu vs jungles that i know won't rape me, or when i get my team to coordinate an aoe teamcomp.
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Basically I get force of nature instead of rylais is has a similar effect but its tank stats over ap.
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On April 01 2012 20:20 Slayer91 wrote:
You can get deathcap or abyssal or void staff last item, but I feel like i need all these tank items to be good in teamfights instead of building AP just for ults. Maybe it's because I play him in normals with a bunch of LP heavies and just farm all day and have to like 1v5, perhaps in ranked I'd consider abyssal instead of force of nature. Sorc boots are an option as well if you have enough levels that your spells do damage.
Well at least you got to farm mid. 
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How about running pure AP runes on mumu ? Theoretically it looks to me like it'll be pretty powerful but have any of you tried it ?
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Could anyone give a summarization of what items/runes/masteries to grab on a jungle amumu? I just started playing this hero and I favor him greatly over others(he is quickly becoming my favorite hero). Any tips would be nice.
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armour armour armour mr/lvl
0/21/9 masteries
items philo+hog+mercs into tank items of your choice I like chalice-->chain mail-->negatron-->fon/shurelyas-->randuins.
I might even get chalice before hog depending on my base timings.
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Some copypasta from the GD thread so it's easier to find:
On April 28 2012 18:52 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 17:54 JackDino wrote:
What are these mumu buffs people seem to be talking about? He definitely gets innate +MR per lvl now, was in the patch preview. Maybe a bit lower ult CD. Thing is he doesn't need ANY buffs. He's one of the strongest champs in the game once farmed. And you can get him farmed easily as soon as you allow him to clear minionwaves. -35 MR from his passive together with amazing AP ratios makes him a monster. Sorcs, Guise, Abyssal and MPen marks puts him at 104 MPen flat. It's ridiculous. He's got really good lategame itemization options with Abyssal, Rylai's, Deathcap and Frozen Heart. His weakness is his earlygame, of course. But it's not that bad. I'm currently struggling with his earlygame itemization; usually I'd go Regrowth -> Philo -> whatever, but I want to replace the Philo. So I'm trying DShield openings which allow me to be a bit beefier. But that leaves a mana regen issue. It seems almost as if there's no way around the Philo...
By the way, anyone mucked around with Lanemumu top s'more, and what are good matchups? IIRC Smash mentioned Amumu with all the defensive minion damage reduction masteries + points in E as a Yorick counter.
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Amumu not really weak early, just get saints full armour page. I usually go chalice after philo because I hate having to base a lot on jungler.s
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I played Amumu solo top vs Trynd and rolled him.
New chalice item is a good one for mumu for sure
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Ok so, if it wasn't for 2000 ping spikes at the worst times, I'd have rocked another jungle Amumu game. Normals, sure, but who cares. Point is: I like my current build.
My current setup/build:
Some generic 0/21/9 masteries, MPen marks, armor seals and quints. Not sure about glyphs right now, I'm considering all options, especially offensive ones (looking forward to the MR buff next patch).
Starting with Regrowth Pendant + 1 into a fast Philo. There's no real alternative, after all. And that's completely ignoring the gold/10 on it. Still way OP.
Next is boots, then Haunting Guise. Hell yeah, MPen. I'm expecting everyone to have at least some bonus MR on top of his 30 base, so nothing's wasted. I'm torn on the change to Guise next patch, I quite like the HP part on it since the next couple of items usually only have armor and MRes for defense. Might have to adjust after the change.
Then I build Abyssal and Frozen Heart (or just Glacial Shroud).
Sorc boots if they become useful (you're likely to cut through most of your enemies' MR with these, Guise and Abyssal, even if they have an MR item; don't forget about your passive), otherwise whatever the situation calls for. I guess you won't have to consider Berserker Greaves.
Other items to get: Situational defense items, Deathcap, Rylais, possibly DFG (didn't try yet). Reverie too, though I'm kinda skipping it lately and selling Philo once my inventory is full. No need for Void Staff, and don't sell Guise for a NLR like I did once lol. Deathcap or keep.
I usually don't want Randuin's, so say NO TO HOG. Early Reverie feels too weak as well. WotA doesn't fit very well.
I'm fine with my mana after Philo, or at the very least after Glacial. Giving the 2nd blue away never felt bad with Philo. Aside from the ult cooldown I guess.
Jungle path is normal: Wolves Blue Wraiths Red Golems, if you had a decent leash you can just keep going from there, but backing for a Philo isn't too bad either.
Skills: W start, R>E>W>Q, Q at 4 is what I've been doing. I'm considering R>E>Q>W now though. Lower cooldown and higher burst sounds good for the style I play.
Farm (tax) lanes, you're gonna put the money to good use. Farmed Amumu is epic.
In fights, unless you're too far behind to dive of course, kill the enemy squishies. Don't listen to anyone calling you a tank, whatever that is. But don't dive in too far from your team. If you've pushed those squishies away, close up to your carries again.
Specific jungle tips... I can't provide these. I'm a horrible jungler after all.
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On April 30 2012 02:14 spinesheath wrote:
Ok so, if it wasn't for 2000 ping spikes at the worst times, I'd have rocked another jungle Amumu game. Normals, sure, but who cares. Point is: I like my current build.
My current setup/build:
Some generic 0/21/9 masteries, MPen marks, armor seals and quints. Not sure about glyphs right now, I'm considering all options, especially offensive ones (looking forward to the MR buff next patch).
Starting with Regrowth Pendant + 1 into a fast Philo. There's no real alternative, after all. And that's completely ignoring the gold/10 on it. Still way OP.
Next is boots, then Haunting Guise. Hell yeah, MPen. I'm expecting everyone to have at least some bonus MR on top of his 30 base, so nothing's wasted. I'm torn on the change to Guise next patch, I quite like the HP part on it since the next couple of items usually only have armor and MRes for defense. Might have to adjust after the change.
Then I build Abyssal and Frozen Heart (or just Glacial Shroud).
Sorc boots if they become useful (you're likely to cut through most of your enemies' MR with these, Guise and Abyssal, even if they have an MR item; don't forget about your passive), otherwise whatever the situation calls for. I guess you won't have to consider Berserker Greaves.
Other items to get: Situational defense items, Deathcap, Rylais, possibly DFG (didn't try yet). Reverie too, though I'm kinda skipping it lately and selling Philo once my inventory is full. No need for Void Staff, and don't sell Guise for a NLR like I did once lol. Deathcap or keep.
I usually don't want Randuin's, so say NO TO HOG. Early Reverie feels too weak as well. WotA doesn't fit very well.
I'm fine with my mana after Philo, or at the very least after Glacial. Giving the 2nd blue away never felt bad with Philo. Aside from the ult cooldown I guess.
Jungle path is normal: Wolves Blue Wraiths Red Golems, if you had a decent leash you can just keep going from there, but backing for a Philo isn't too bad either.
Skills: W start, R>E>W>Q, Q at 4 is what I've been doing. I'm considering R>E>Q>W now though. Lower cooldown and higher burst sounds good for the style I play.
Farm (tax) lanes, you're gonna put the money to good use. Farmed Amumu is epic.
In fights, unless you're too far behind to dive of course, kill the enemy squishies. Don't listen to anyone calling you a tank, whatever that is. But don't dive in too far from your team. If you've pushed those squishies away, close up to your carries again.
Specific jungle tips... I can't provide these. I'm a horrible jungler after all.
Really enjoying the secret Haunting Guise tech (didn't get changed this patch after all) - really nice source of MPen, especially if it's a game where Sorc Shoes aren't possible over Mercs (blah at Ryze mid/support Lux on the enemy team).
I'm a big fan of maxing Q sooner rather than later - the reduced cooldown is really noticeable when you're able to get off multiples during ganks/teamfights, and it hits like a truck. All I need now is to get used to the Bandage Toss animation again - I think Naut's Dredge Line has spoiled me; they respond v.differently.
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Yeah, having tried maxing Q second a couple of times now, I think it's much stronger. At least with an AP/MPen build.
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This is a build I've been toying with pre-buffed Amumu with a lot of success. After the buff, I think it's viable. For context, I'm ~1800 elo, but I've only tried this build in normal games. I've won probably around 12 of my last 15 amumu games with this build, and each game I usually end up having the most gold in the game.
The build is really greedy, basically running support runes/masteries:
For runes, I go armor marks, armor glyphs, g/10 seals, and g/10 quints. This will give you +15 armor and 5.3g/10 to start the game.
For masteries, I run 0/9/21. In defense, you obviously need the +6 armor, but the remaining points are customizable. I personally get smite mastery and extra HP, but I can see others preferring to get minion damage reduction and thorns. In utility, make sure you get the 2 g/10 masteries, the +40 gold mastery, and the 6% CDR. The rest is up to you.
I start with a regrowth and 2 health pots and do a standard route:
1. Wolves
2. Blue
3. Wraiths
4. Red/double golems
5. Double golems/red (depends on which one you did for #4)
6. Wraiths
7. Wolves
You'll need a decent leash to finish this route, so make sure you communicate this to your helpers. The extra health pot helps a lot in case your teammates don't help you enough with wolves and blue. After the route, you'll have enough to finish your philo stone and get boots 1. After that, you should continue jungling while looking for a gank. Get your heart of gold asap, which will bring you to a total of 17.3 g/10.
The rest is standard. I've been following up the two gold items with a sunfire cape and abyssal. Both synergize very well with amumu and give you good all around defense while also allowing you to a lot of damage. The philo can turn into a shurelyas, and the HoG can be turned into a randuins (or sold for more AP items if you feel like carrying).
Really, the key is the gold runes and masteries. Most games I end up with 5-6 items because of the amount of gold I'm generating. Sorry I don't have replays, but if there is interest I'll try downloading the replay program to record some games.
Edit: Forgot to mention skill order:
I start with W, then go R > E > Q W. E first because it clears jungle camps the fastest, Q for the lowered cool down and increased damage, and finally W last.
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Ok, so yesterday I finished my first game with Amumu. Barely managed to drag my team to victory even though it was 5v4 almost the entire game (finished 10/4/15, with most of my deaths towards the end). Our Ashe was something like 0/17 before picking up a lucky kill near the end and our Malphite was like 3/19. Basically their team was incredibly fed and we always had 1-2 people wandering off on their own to die. Anyway, enough qq, at least we won.
So my question is: I finished the game with Shurelya's, Randuin's, Mercs, Aegis, Frozen Heart and WotA, and about 5k+ gold in the bank. What should I sell, and what should I get at this point? Is Sunfire Cape actually good on Amumu? I thought it was considered largely a trash item these days?
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On May 11 2012 19:23 Goragoth wrote:
Ok, so yesterday I finished my first game with Amumu. Barely managed to drag my team to victory even though it was 5v4 almost the entire game (finished 10/4/15, with most of my deaths towards the end). Our Ashe was something like 0/17 before picking up a lucky kill near the end and our Malphite was like 3/19. Basically their team was incredibly fed and we always had 1-2 people wandering off on their own to die. Anyway, enough qq, at least we won.
So my question is: I finished the game with Shurelya's, Randuin's, Mercs, Aegis, Frozen Heart and WotA, and about 5k+ gold in the bank. What should I sell, and what should I get at this point? Is Sunfire Cape actually good on Amumu? I thought it was considered largely a trash item these days?
There are better ways to scale Amumu's damage than Sunfire, and there are better defensive items as well.
My prefered lategame build on Amumu is:
Mercs, Abyssal, Rylai's, Frozen Heart, Deathcap, and then you kinda pick one based on your opponents: FoN, GA, Randuin's, Thornmail, DFG, Warmogs...
In your case you definitely could have sold the Aegis for any appropriate item, potentially the Shurelya's (if you didn't need it desperately; say replace it with FoN so you still have movespeed).
Also remember to stock up on Red and Blue Elixiers generously.
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OP is kinda outdated in terms of Amumu Theory. I think most High Elo players now go Boots of Choice/Doran Stack into random crap like Sunfire, Rylai, Abby, FH, etc depending on the game.
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i think azingy just hits all of his bandages, not sure if his builds are the best
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Amumu is like the only jungler i can find a rhythm with. I run armor yellows/mres blues/mpen reds/speed quints with 9-21-0 I think, although 21-9-0 is ok too for me. I go boots 3 pots -> catalyst -> sorcs -> roa -> abyssal. Maybe change abyssal for like fh if their ad champs are getting big. But with sorcs/roa/abyssal you do an amazing amount of damage.
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Why would you go 9 offense over 9 utility? 10% Mpen? Not very useful on Amumu thanks to his passive. I'd much rather have the mana and mana regen.
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On June 11 2012 17:23 zulu_nation8 wrote:
i think azingy just hits all of his bandages, not sure if his builds are the best
It isn't particularly hard to hit bandages when you are ganking from lane brush, q-ing in after a CC or just saving q until after flash r. It isn't exactly like Azingy lands max range q amazingly well or anything, he tends to just get free kills from bot.
On June 12 2012 00:47 Cloud wrote:
Amumu is like the only jungler i can find a rhythm with. I run armor yellows/mres blues/mpen reds/speed quints with 9-21-0 I think, although 21-9-0 is ok too for me. I go boots 3 pots -> catalyst -> sorcs -> roa -> abyssal. Maybe change abyssal for like fh if their ad champs are getting big. But with sorcs/roa/abyssal you do an amazing amount of damage.
I went cata every so often in the old jungle in true scumbag uta fashion, but in the new jungle 1.3k is a lot of gold to farm up. You would be like 100g short of triple dorans, which gives you a similar level of mana regen (e is cheap, you can even afford to q to double golems across wall), not as much hp but a lot more damage.
Honestly I can't tell if the dorans build is a significant improvement over old gp10 builds. I've been having successes with it, but that can just be because people have yet to catch up to the idea that Amumu w/ 50~70 AP already deals considerably more damage. The damage also kicks in a lot earlier - people could still be used to the idea that at that point, Amumu is on 1.5~2 gp10s and they can survive even if they get ulted. idk.
Sunfire is surprisingly strong with the dorans+potential sorcs build and builds pretty readily. You can pick and choose between components for sunfire and abyssal after dorans and get pretty good mileage out of all of them, and it adds the little bit of damage that you are lacking to secure kills with and gets you the resist that you are lacking. In an ideal situation where your lanes snowball accordingly I guess it would probably work better to sit on the belt and go glacial for armor though.
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On June 12 2012 01:43 Ecael wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 17:23 zulu_nation8 wrote:
i think azingy just hits all of his bandages, not sure if his builds are the best It isn't particularly hard to hit bandages when you are ganking from lane brush, q-ing in after a CC or just saving q until after flash r. It isn't exactly like Azingy lands max range q amazingly well or anything, he tends to just get free kills from bot. Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 00:47 Cloud wrote:
Amumu is like the only jungler i can find a rhythm with. I run armor yellows/mres blues/mpen reds/speed quints with 9-21-0 I think, although 21-9-0 is ok too for me. I go boots 3 pots -> catalyst -> sorcs -> roa -> abyssal. Maybe change abyssal for like fh if their ad champs are getting big. But with sorcs/roa/abyssal you do an amazing amount of damage. I went cata every so often in the old jungle in true scumbag uta fashion, but in the new jungle 1.3k is a lot of gold to farm up. You would be like 100g short of triple dorans, which gives you a similar level of mana regen (e is cheap, you can even afford to q to double golems across wall), not as much hp but a lot more damage. Honestly I can't tell if the dorans build is a significant improvement over old gp10 builds. I've been having successes with it, but that can just be because people have yet to catch up to the idea that Amumu w/ 50~70 AP already deals considerably more damage. The damage also kicks in a lot earlier - people could still be used to the idea that at that point, Amumu is on 1.5~2 gp10s and they can survive even if they get ulted. idk. Sunfire is surprisingly strong with the dorans+potential sorcs build and builds pretty readily. You can pick and choose between components for sunfire and abyssal after dorans and get pretty good mileage out of all of them, and it adds the little bit of damage that you are lacking to secure kills with and gets you the resist that you are lacking. In an ideal situation where your lanes snowball accordingly I guess it would probably work better to sit on the belt and go glacial for armor though.
its hard to have a high bandage % when people know how to juke
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On June 12 2012 01:14 spinesheath wrote:
Why would you go 9 offense over 9 utility? 10% Mpen? Not very useful on Amumu thanks to his passive. I'd much rather have the mana and mana regen.
I never find myself needing the mana. The mpen + passive + sorcs + abyssal actually equals a pretty damn big amount of mpen.
As for the amount you need for cata, amumu clears small camps pretty fast and is a really fearsome ganker. I daresay im pretty good with the bandage tosses too.
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I don't like ring stack builds all that much cause philo is extremely important on amumu. Without it u absolutely have to hog blue, which can be bad if ur mid lanes needs or can do more with it.
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2 drings is more regen than philo
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I dunno, I've done both, and I like 2xDRing, Max E first builds better. Just buy a potion here and there for health.
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I just like playing AP mumu, it's such a fun pubstomper.
What is the consensus on sunfire cape on amumu? good/bad/situational?
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On June 12 2012 17:15 wei2coolman wrote:
I just like playing AP mumu, it's such a fun pubstomper.
What is the consensus on sunfire cape on amumu? good/bad/situational?
Bad.
The only reason to ever get Sunfire is if you need to splitpush fast but have no means to do so, read: Shen. In any other case I can think of, both armor and HP are better itemized through different items.
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On June 12 2012 11:53 zulu_nation8 wrote:
its hard to have a high bandage % when people know how to juke
Dunno, I find Bandage to be pretty damn easy to hit compared to other skillshots. People can even hit Dark Binding, now THAT'S a hard one.
On June 12 2012 13:03 Cloud wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 01:14 spinesheath wrote:
Why would you go 9 offense over 9 utility? 10% Mpen? Not very useful on Amumu thanks to his passive. I'd much rather have the mana and mana regen. I never find myself needing the mana. The mpen + passive + sorcs + abyssal actually equals a pretty damn big amount of mpen. As for the amount you need for cata, amumu clears small camps pretty fast and is a really fearsome ganker. I daresay im pretty good with the bandage tosses too.
MPen marks + Sorcs + Abyssal + Passive gives you like 60-80 flat penetration. 10% off the remaining MR hardly ever yields more than 5 MPen. Often it's nothing at all. Even Void Staff hardly ever makes any sense on Amumu.
On June 12 2012 17:15 wei2coolman wrote:
I just like playing AP mumu, it's such a fun pubstomper.
What is the consensus on sunfire cape on amumu? good/bad/situational?
Try to get Guise, Abyssal, Rylais or Frozen Heart (or parts of these) instead. Of course that's more expensive all together, so just buy whatever is best at the situation. I wouldn't get a Sunfire unless I really needed exactly the stats it provides, right now, and won't have the money for a decent combination of the other items.
On June 12 2012 14:48 Bladeorade wrote:
2 drings is more regen than philo
They also cost 150 extra gold and don't provide HP regen.
I tried all kinds of openings a while ago; Philo, DRings, DShield, Boots, heck even Cloth -> Emblem of Valor.
Philo's stats just are so convenient and cheap, I wouldn't get anything else. And that's coming from someone who advocates getting no/few gold/10 items.
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Disregarding health regen is a really stupid idea on a jungler. Maybe you can justify the tradeoff and buy more pots//make more risky ganks without full hp but it's definitely valuable.
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On June 12 2012 15:40 HughMyron wrote:
I dunno, I've done both, and I like 2xDRing, Max E first builds better. Just buy a potion here and there for health.
You're losing out on the health regen and the gold/5 component, plus you cant build a rev or anything later without buying a philo.
Always max E first, that flat 10 i think it is damage reduction real good. also pretty nice damage.
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Actually maxing Q right after 3-4 levels of E might be worth a consideration. That burst.
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I only said 2 drings is more regen than philo because he said without philo he had to hog blue so he didnt like the dring builds. But if you are doing the dring builds you get at least 2, which is more regen than philo so that makes 0 sense.
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On June 12 2012 11:53 zulu_nation8 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 01:43 Ecael wrote:On June 11 2012 17:23 zulu_nation8 wrote:
i think azingy just hits all of his bandages, not sure if his builds are the best It isn't particularly hard to hit bandages when you are ganking from lane brush, q-ing in after a CC or just saving q until after flash r. It isn't exactly like Azingy lands max range q amazingly well or anything, he tends to just get free kills from bot. On June 12 2012 00:47 Cloud wrote:
Amumu is like the only jungler i can find a rhythm with. I run armor yellows/mres blues/mpen reds/speed quints with 9-21-0 I think, although 21-9-0 is ok too for me. I go boots 3 pots -> catalyst -> sorcs -> roa -> abyssal. Maybe change abyssal for like fh if their ad champs are getting big. But with sorcs/roa/abyssal you do an amazing amount of damage. I went cata every so often in the old jungle in true scumbag uta fashion, but in the new jungle 1.3k is a lot of gold to farm up. You would be like 100g short of triple dorans, which gives you a similar level of mana regen (e is cheap, you can even afford to q to double golems across wall), not as much hp but a lot more damage. Honestly I can't tell if the dorans build is a significant improvement over old gp10 builds. I've been having successes with it, but that can just be because people have yet to catch up to the idea that Amumu w/ 50~70 AP already deals considerably more damage. The damage also kicks in a lot earlier - people could still be used to the idea that at that point, Amumu is on 1.5~2 gp10s and they can survive even if they get ulted. idk. Sunfire is surprisingly strong with the dorans+potential sorcs build and builds pretty readily. You can pick and choose between components for sunfire and abyssal after dorans and get pretty good mileage out of all of them, and it adds the little bit of damage that you are lacking to secure kills with and gets you the resist that you are lacking. In an ideal situation where your lanes snowball accordingly I guess it would probably work better to sit on the belt and go glacial for armor though. its hard to have a high bandage % when people know how to juke
It is also really hard to hold q till after r or do it point blank after another cc has already landed.
On June 12 2012 13:31 Ryuu314 wrote:
I don't like ring stack builds all that much cause philo is extremely important on amumu. Without it u absolutely have to hog blue, which can be bad if ur mid lanes needs or can do more with it.
No you don't, 2x dorans is enough for you to stay in the jungle spamming e and keeping w on, 3x and you can even throw random qs in the jungle to jump walls.
On June 12 2012 19:45 Slayer91 wrote:
Disregarding health regen is a really stupid idea on a jungler. Maybe you can justify the tradeoff and buy more pots//make more risky ganks without full hp but it's definitely valuable.
You go pretty far on just a few hp pots, e's clear is scary fast and damage reduction pretty significant.
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Sunfire is ok on Amumu just because it synergizes with passive and Abby (which he always buys), and it gives a lot of health which compensates for his low base stats.
I dunno, the reality is that you won't really be building too many big items on Jungle farm, so against Double AP I usually get Giant's Belt and Nega Cloak after my DRing Stack, and upgrade them to Rylai/Abby, getting an FH later. If I'm not against Double AP, I consider an early Sunfire or Randuin depending on my role and other team's items, or just get Giant's Belt + Glacial Shroud.
The reality is that you need a HP item to make up for low base HP, you're playing Amumu, not Udyr.
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On June 13 2012 03:53 HughMyron wrote:
Sunfire is ok on Amumu just because it synergizes with passive and Abby (which he always buys), and it gives a lot of health which compensates for his low base stats.
I dunno, the reality is that you won't really be building too many big items on Jungle farm, so against Double AP I usually get Giant's Belt and Nega Cloak after my DRing Stack, and upgrade them to Rylai/Abby, getting an FH later. If I'm not against Double AP, I consider an early Sunfire or Randuin depending on my role and other team's items, or just get Giant's Belt + Glacial Shroud.
The reality is that you need a HP item to make up for low base HP, you're playing Amumu, not Udyr.
I'd rather have a Guise and/or Kindlegem though. And Rylais of course. Glacial/FH are the better choices for armor. All of these items also contribute to his aggressive potential as well. I'd say more than Sunfire too.
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On June 13 2012 03:53 HughMyron wrote:
Sunfire is ok on Amumu just because it synergizes with passive and Abby (which he always buys), and it gives a lot of health which compensates for his low base stats.
I dunno, the reality is that you won't really be building too many big items on Jungle farm, so against Double AP I usually get Giant's Belt and Nega Cloak after my DRing Stack, and upgrade them to Rylai/Abby, getting an FH later. If I'm not against Double AP, I consider an early Sunfire or Randuin depending on my role and other team's items, or just get Giant's Belt + Glacial Shroud.
The reality is that you need a HP item to make up for low base HP, you're playing Amumu, not Udyr.
ya agreed. i go dring stack, sunfire, abyssal. and the game is usally over shortly thereafter. sunfire + abyssal gives you health, armor, and mres + decent enough damage that synergizes with the rest of your kit.
for skilling i go w e e q. then max q from that point. its one of the highest base damage nukes in the game.
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On June 12 2012 22:50 spinesheath wrote:
Actually maxing Q right after 3-4 levels of E might be worth a consideration. That burst.
Completely agree with this....shame my guide is so outdated and old I can't even update it anymore. Is it worth making a fresh one?
But yeah my skill order varies game-to-game. If I'm focusing on famring mostly I max E quickly with maybe 2 points in Q. If I'm ganking a lot I tend to max Q and E evenly; the lowered cooldown on Q per level is actually EXTREMELY helpful for ganking/escapes and whatnot.
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Also for a runepage I run Armor Mark/Seal/Glyph and AP Quints, and I usually max E first, so I wait before picking up future Armor items.
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Picked him up, I can't manage to do well or gank fast. Is there some setup to speed up his jungle? Going WEEQ I found myself quite slow, and dropping a ton of HP.
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Thats normal, your first jungle is pretty slow, and you drop rather low depending on how good your leash was. After that you are fast, and your ganks become amazing at 6, before that they are ok-ish.
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On June 17 2012 06:09 Alaric wrote:
Picked him up, I can't manage to do well or gank fast. Is there some setup to speed up his jungle? Going WEEQ I found myself quite slow, and dropping a ton of HP.
Make sure you get a strong leash on blue, everything after that is pretty easy imo. At least with my setup (see a page or two before). I usually get to kill Small Gols just when Smite comes up the second time. Sometimes I can even just keep jungling from there. If you already need to chug your potion at blue, it's gonna suck.
Only go for ganks before lvl 6 if you see a really good opportunity.
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I don't know, the only Amumu(s) I've seen these days in ranked seemed to carry by ganking even before 6 and relying on QE burst+cc Maokai-style, so I guessed he'd be able to gank fairly well from level 4 on.
I picked him up since Maokai's kinda weak now, well, more dependant on your laners when you gank (and it's an awful feeling to gank right and see the laner waste his spells or just miss and you can't finish off the target by yourself), and on the request of a ranked team I'm in, but I'll have to explain them the meaning of a true leash it seems, and how to defend a buff when miraculously their top laner dissappear as soon as the timer says your blue's going to spawn. :<
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Should definitely be ganking pre-6. Amumu with at least red who can hit a Q is 100% forced flash or kill if not already at tower.
I generally go EW Q/E Q/E because E reduces your incoming damage and you get the most help on wolves/blue. It helps slightly.
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On June 17 2012 13:38 Craton wrote:
Should definitely be ganking pre-6. Amumu with at least red who can hit a Q is 100% forced flash or kill if not already at tower.
I generally go EW Q/E Q/E because E reduces your incoming damage and you get the most help on wolves/blue. It helps slightly.
I swear, anytime I go E first my leash is pure shit or golem resets after wolves. After a few times I just said fuck it and went back to W first.
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You shouldn't delay your lvl 6 gank by attempting a gank when you aren't certain you do damage. If you know you will force a flash, deal damage, and not lose too much time, go for it. Otherwise just get that kill at lvl 6.
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On June 13 2012 01:00 Bladeorade wrote:
I only said 2 drings is more regen than philo because he said without philo he had to hog blue so he didnt like the dring builds. But if you are doing the dring builds you get at least 2, which is more regen than philo so that makes 0 sense.
i forgot to mention the health regen from philo, which is also extremely important on a jungler with no innate sustain.
I actually like to go E->W->E instead of W->E->E. The speed difference between the two builds in clearing wolves/blue is only a couple seconds tops and opening E doesn't get you as low as opening W.
Personally, I like to level E up to 3, then go Q->E->W because while the damage reduction is nice, the damage increase and cd reduction per level of Q is just ridiculous. You don't need more than 3 levels of E to clear jungle reasonably fast and safely, so by leveling up E past 3 over maxing out Q is trading off 60(+1) and 2 seconds off the cd for only 2 damage reduction and 25(+0.5) damage. The amount of burst you get from Q max is simply ridiculous.
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Q Max makes you clear noticeably slower, take more damage, and use more mana. You only gain a small amount of damage assuming a single use of Q and E. If you hit 2 Es, then E does more damage than Q. You usually will hit more than one E.
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After level 5-6 with Philo, HoG, and level 3 E you don't get low and you still clear camps with the same speed. Small camps will still die to 2-3 Es regardless if you have level 3 E or level 5 E. While E does do more damage if you can get 2+ casts, Q gives more upfront burst and the cooldown is cut in half by the time you reach 10, which is about when laning begins to break down and teams are more likely to contest objectives/start teamfighting and the decreased cooldown on Q is very useful.
To clarify, I'm advocating going E->W->E->Q->E->R then R->Q->E->W.
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Just max E then Q and farm more to get levels o.O
Chalice really strong on mumu btw.
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not sure about lvl 3, but i'd be very surprised if there was any noticeable difference at all in clear speed between lvl 4 and lvl 5 E, pretty sure wolves/wraiths are dead after the second E either way.
and isn't two E's only 50 (25 x 2) extra damage per level while one Q is 60 damage per level?
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I have experimented with levelling q after 6 a bit, and from my experience, you go oom a lot doing that. Not only do you use q more often, you also increase its costs, while your mana regain stays the same. But that might just be my style of staying in the jungle for ridiculous amounts of time because something happens/a camp is there/an opening for a gank appears/camp/something happens/etc...
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On June 17 2012 17:27 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 01:00 Bladeorade wrote:
I only said 2 drings is more regen than philo because he said without philo he had to hog blue so he didnt like the dring builds. But if you are doing the dring builds you get at least 2, which is more regen than philo so that makes 0 sense.
i forgot to mention the health regen from philo, which is also extremely important on a jungler with no innate sustain. I actually like to go E->W->E instead of W->E->E. The speed difference between the two builds in clearing wolves/blue is only a couple seconds tops and opening E doesn't get you as low as opening W. Personally, I like to level E up to 3, then go Q->E->W because while the damage reduction is nice, the damage increase and cd reduction per level of Q is just ridiculous. You don't need more than 3 levels of E to clear jungle reasonably fast and safely, so by leveling up E past 3 over maxing out Q is trading off 60(+1) and 2 seconds off the cd for only 2 damage reduction and 25(+0.5) damage. The amount of burst you get from Q max is simply ridiculous.
I don't know what you mean. Health regen should not effect if you need blue buff or not nor was it at all related to your point so I don't think you forgot to mention it. Going 2 dorans with Amumu gives you no health regen and works fine.
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If you max E first you literally take no damage from jungle creeps. That's why DRing Stack works, just get a few potions here and there in case some fighting happens.
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Wtf Riot, you're breaking my balls with this horrible splash art. I'll look on Leaguecraft for mods.
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on the plus side though, sad robot amumu >>>>>
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Anyone think AP amumu is viable?
Been playing him a lot recently, going philo > sorc boots > RoA > rylais then a bit flexible, you sacrifice a bit of tankiness but do a shit load of damage. If you can get onto a squishy with Q they are basically fucked or at least zoned straight away.
Running mpen reds, armor yellows, mr/level blues and AP quints. Running 12/9/9 in masteries with 3 points in damage dealt.
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I picked up Amumu a few days ago and I'd say the recent buff on his ultimate makes him secretly OP, I like to "rush" CDR items on him, 1 min cooldown on this sick ult too strong.
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Hm, i don't know about CDR on him, it's not useful actually. At least in the later game, you usually have your ult ready for any teamfight anyways, and you will never have it twice in a teamfight.
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Dont forget CDR also applies his other skills, with some ap E does hurt, and his Q scales with 1.0, and has quite some base damage (360 at lvl 5 if i remember correctly). Spamming these skills in teamfight can really improve your damage.
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On June 30 2012 00:52 Simberto wrote:
Hm, i don't know about CDR on him, it's not useful actually. At least in the later game, you usually have your ult ready for any teamfight anyways, and you will never have it twice in a teamfight.
well by cdr I mean the items a support jungler usually gets anyway like frozen heart and shurelias and its almost 40% capped alrdy and I agree with the poster above that being able to spam e and bandage toss in a teamfight hurts surprisingly much.
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On June 29 2012 17:28 schmutttt wrote:
Anyone think AP amumu is viable?
Been playing him a lot recently, going philo > sorc boots > RoA > rylais then a bit flexible, you sacrifice a bit of tankiness but do a shit load of damage. If you can get onto a squishy with Q they are basically fucked or at least zoned straight away.
Running mpen reds, armor yellows, mr/level blues and AP quints. Running 12/9/9 in masteries with 3 points in damage dealt.
He is definitely viable. There are at least two 2500 ELO players who almost exclusively play amumu AP. (Azingy and Boss Gragas)
Azingy goes triple doran's ring and then abyssal. Boss Gragas goes rod of ages as you say, but then abyssal. Abyssal is a super good item on amumu. I don't recommend rylai's... you're paying for stats that you don't really use. Remember that most of amumu's abilities are AoE.
See also http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=27325
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Boss gragas is playing amumu now? o.O
Amumu is really good though, at least sleeper OP. The heavy counterjungling stuff that was going on earlier made him lose popularity though.
Whether or not to go tank, cdr, ap, of combinations of the 3, I'm not sure what's best. It's situational to some extent but they are all viable.
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On June 30 2012 03:10 Slayer91 wrote:
Boss gragas is playing amumu now? o.O
Amumu is really good though, at least sleeper OP. The heavy counterjungling stuff that was going on earlier made him lose popularity though.
how is he a sleeper? he's FotM on NA right now.
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I haven't seen him in tournaments and I haven't seen him that much recently YET in EU.#
Back to the good old days of banning malph shen amumu soon haha.
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counterjungling is really overrated, if you ward both entrances of your red jungle early on, it's essentially impossible for the other jungler to come out ahead when invading. As the games goes on and your solos are stronger it becomes even harder to invade unless one of your solos is getting shit on which in that case, you can counterjungle with anyone and come out ahead.
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On June 30 2012 03:56 Slayer91 wrote:
I haven't seen him in tournaments and I haven't seen him that much recently YET in EU.#
Back to the good old days of banning malph shen amumu soon haha.
double gold/10 -> sunfire abyssal and rylai's has been my build, feels really strong. I've been getting sorc boots too, cause hey, why not?
EDIT: I think the biggest revelation on NA has been to max Q 2nd. lowering that CD and actually being able to burst someone's face off with R -> Q is real stronk.
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Once you try building Philo, Guise, FH/Abyssal you won't go back to anything else.
Did anyone advocate Q 2nd before I did? I wanna take credit!
Also I have no clue why you would max Q but then build Sunfire. You want burst but you build a weak AoE DoT. Sunfire after HoG also makes no sense. Either HoG and Randuins or Belt and Sunfire.
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On June 30 2012 04:28 spinesheath wrote:
Once you try building Philo, Guise, FH/Abyssal you won't go back to anything else.
Did anyone advocate Q 2nd before I did? I wanna take credit!
i used to max E first but after reading the unstoppable guide on solomid i realized how fucking big the base dmg of Banadage toss is and copied his build of W->EE and max Q from lvl 4 onwards
rly strong.
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I usually go sorcs on amumu for sure, and philo for sure, anything else I'm not convinced about yet.
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On June 30 2012 04:28 spinesheath wrote:
Once you try building Philo, Guise, FH/Abyssal you won't go back to anything else.
Did anyone advocate Q 2nd before I did? I wanna take credit!
Also I have no clue why you would max Q but then build Sunfire. You want burst but you build a weak AoE DoT. Sunfire after HoG also makes no sense. Either HoG and Randuins or Belt and Sunfire.
no thanks, I'll keep doing what I'm doing. I like getting the sustained income from HoG, and then from there, getting armor and more damage is the next step for me. The only real options for these two together are sunfire and hourglass and frankly, I think that Sunfire's a better fit because you're still farming the jungle at that point (meaning you conserve a lot of mana due to the AoE from Sunfire) and the extra HP is very strong in the low level teamfights. Going Randuin's would hurt my damage output and further strain my mana pool in the jangle. Granted, you could also just go chain vest -> Rylai's or Abyssal and that would be fine too, but those options are slower and I feel like sunfire still has strong enough synergy with amumu's kit to be worth buying.
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Glacial Shroud/Frozen Heart doesn't count as a real option for you? 15%/20% CDR is nothing to laugh at damage wise.
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Max CDR and ryalis both work for sticking to people, I guess.
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On June 30 2012 05:47 spinesheath wrote:
Glacial Shroud/Frozen Heart doesn't count as a real option for you? 15%/20% CDR is nothing to laugh at damage wise.
CDR doesn't do a ton for your damage output in a fight. you get 1 ult off and your W doesn't care about CDR so it only really helps Q and E (and E is tricky because using it can blown a chase because of how long the animation is). You also end up spending 2.8+K on no magic resist or HP, which puts you in an odd spot as far as your next item is concerned. FH -> Abyssal leaves your HP pool low enough that even with the MRes, you can get blown up too quickly IMO.
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United States47024 Posts
I've been doing Reverie rush->Aegis->whatever damage items feel appropriate (usually Abyssal, Sunfire, or Hourglass).
Reverie rush is just so damn good IMO. The extra regen on top of Philo makes me feel more comfortable, and the active is super good for positioning ultimates. Reverie ganks are also just unfair. I don't feel like you really need the extra HoG income because Amumu farms stupid fast anyway.
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one thing i didn't realize about building sunfire on amumu is that it lets you begin skilling up Q a little earlier while still clearing camps quickly, it makes only getting 3 or 4 points in E a lot less noticeable in the jungle.
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0/21/9
Flat AP/mpen/armor/scaling AP
boots + 3 start
smite/flash
wolves -> blue -> gank if you're bottom team
wolves -> blue -> wraiths -> wolves -> red -> wraiths if you're top
EQE or EWEQ depending then max Q
boots -> philo -> 2x dolan's ring -> sunfire -> abyssal
is what i'm doing right now, it's really strong
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On June 30 2012 07:39 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 05:47 spinesheath wrote:
Glacial Shroud/Frozen Heart doesn't count as a real option for you? 15%/20% CDR is nothing to laugh at damage wise. CDR doesn't do a ton for your damage output in a fight. you get 1 ult off and your W doesn't care about CDR so it only really helps Q and E (and E is tricky because using it can blown a chase because of how long the animation is). You also end up spending 2.8+K on no magic resist or HP, which puts you in an odd spot as far as your next item is concerned. FH -> Abyssal leaves your HP pool low enough that even with the MRes, you can get blown up too quickly IMO.
Yeah it's absurd how tanky you get with the hp from sunfire now that amumu has mr gains lol
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On August 20 2012 18:35 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
0/21/9
Flat AP/mpen/armor/scaling AP
boots + 3 start
smite/flash
wolves -> blue -> gank if you're bottom team
wolves -> blue -> wraiths -> wolves -> red -> wraiths if you're top
EQE or EWEQ depending then max Q
boots -> philo -> 2x dolan's ring -> sunfire -> abyssal
is what i'm doing right now, it's really strong
Pretty much the same. However, I've gone away from boots +3 if I'm top and shifted back to cloth +5 or regrowth +1. I feel my HP dipping too low w/ boots +3 while spending that much time in the jungle. Granted, a really good leash at blue can alleviate these problems - that's always a crapshoot depending upon a really good leash and not just a couple of autos though.
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if you get caught in the jungle without boots youre dead
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United States47024 Posts
Not sold on Philo + 2DRing vs. Shurelya's.
Shurelya's - 2200 gold, 1 item slot for:
330 HP
30 HP5
15 MP5
15% CDR
Shurelya's active
vs.
Philo + 2xDRing - 1750 gold, 3 item slots for:
160 HP
15 HP5
18 MP5
30 AP
5 gp10
The extra AP doesn't feel like it's worth giving up the early ult CDR (which actually matters quite a bit on the lower ult ranks), the Ruby Crystal's worth of extra HP, and the vastly superior positioning power due to having Shurelya's active relatively early.
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On August 21 2012 07:56 zulu_nation8 wrote:
if you get caught in the jungle without boots youre dead
If you get caught at 1/3 hp with boots you're probably dead anyway too. Amumu isn't much of an early game duelist so most invades will always threaten him regardless of opening items.
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well you shouldnt be low with 3 pots, and boots does make a difference when youre running away
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On August 21 2012 07:59 TheYango wrote:
Not sold on Philo + 2DRing vs. Shurelya's.
Shurelya's - 2200 gold, 1 item slot for:
330 HP
30 HP5
15 MP5
15% CDR
Shurelya's active
vs.
Philo + 2xDRing - 1750 gold, 3 item slots for:
160 HP
15 HP5
18 MP5
30 AP
5 gp10
The extra AP doesn't feel like it's worth giving up the early ult CDR (which actually matters quite a bit on the lower ult ranks), the Ruby Crystal's worth of extra HP, and the vastly superior positioning power due to having Shurelya's active relatively early.
Yeah I'd go for shurelya's too. The active is just so good.
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Hmm... I'll try it out. I like holding the philo stone because if I'm not getting it for the gold/10 then I'd rather get drings to make my ganks stronger. That AP bonus is nothing to scoff at in early level ganks and I usually delay Shurelya's for Sunfire and sometimes Abyssal in the build anyway.
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On August 21 2012 08:13 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2012 07:56 zulu_nation8 wrote:
if you get caught in the jungle without boots youre dead If you get caught at 1/3 hp with boots you're probably dead anyway too. Amumu isn't much of an early game duelist so most invades will always threaten him regardless of opening items.
If you get caught at any HP you are probably dead. Amumu pretty much can't win 1v1 against any other jungler... Just pray that you won't get counterjungled and ping like crazy when you do.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
Here you go, dumping my Amumu knowledge right here:
Runes are I think clearly
Mspeed Quints, Armor reds, Armor yellows, undecided blues (MR18/flat AP/flat CDR all seem viable)
masteries 0/21/9 are the best imo for obvious reasons.
Start boots+3 (obviously), go for philostone asap. Blue buff start is idea, Red buff start is doable and viable if you are blue side and want to countergank toplane.
Level3 gank very powerful in both sidelanes and middle lane, either throw bandage first to waste flash, or if enemy is pushed out come close and bandage after they flash.
After that play mostly farmy until you get lvl 6, then camp bottom all day. Amumu is pretty good at doing dragon so if you get a kill bottom when you are lvl 7 or so go for it np.
Itembuild Defensive boots2, Philo, (HoG maybe/maybe not), Aegis, Shurelyas, then situationally defensive items.
Wasting money on oracles is usually not worth it, you have no escape skills and just bandage in all day.
Play the farm-when-ult-on-CD, gank-when-ult-up style kinda like Skarner, it's pretty similiar.
lategame you either initiate or counterinitiate, it is your call to protect your carry or dive the enemy. Depends on teamcomp.
Not confident for a full on guide yet but eventually I will write it.
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I disagree with the runes, I've been advised by diamond players to run flat ap quints, mpen reds, armor yellows, and scaling ap blues
Other than that, pretty standard, I feel like sunfire and abyssal are really just way stronger on amumu than Shurelya's but I think that's just personal bias
I like go EQEWQR R>Q>E>W depending on how well your ganks are working, camp top/mid til 6 then go bot with ult on cd and for dragon fights
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I actually almost completely ignore tantrum when jungling. While it's faster than cry mode and keeps you healthier, it also destroys your mana pool, making jungling without blue really slow. W also makes dragon go super quickly.
In fact, the only time I level tantrum before 8 is in lane.
I typically build either glacial, aegis, or shurelia first, depending on what I'm feeling like.
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On October 13 2012 07:30 Tooplark wrote:
I actually almost completely ignore tantrum when jungling. While it's faster than cry mode and keeps you healthier, it also destroys your mana pool, making jungling without blue really slow. W also makes dragon go super quickly.
In fact, the only time I level tantrum before 8 is in lane.
I typically build either glacial, aegis, or shurelia first, depending on what I'm feeling like.
Yikes I don't have mana issues with mumu.
I run hp quint / flat armor / flat mr / flat mpen. I wanna get flat ap quints but i need more ip.
Getting boots + 3 pots starting with W at wolves then blue wraiths wolves red wraiths.
I skill either WEEQ or WEQE then max Q-E-W.
After getting my phlio and hitting 6 I spend enough time lane hoping that I keep a good mana pool even without blue. I don't waste time on 2 golems unless I have smite. Just bounce between wraiths and wolves.
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I have been experimenting a bit now, and i really like getting 2 dorans instead of a philo atm. It turns you from a wuss that has to run from everyone into someone that can actually fight others. At the moment i build 2 dorans, aegis, and then sunfire or abyssal. Am i insane, or does that actually make sense?
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On October 15 2012 02:41 Simberto wrote:
I have been experimenting a bit now, and i really like getting 2 dorans instead of a philo atm. It turns you from a wuss that has to run from everyone into someone that can actually fight others. At the moment i build 2 dorans, aegis, and then sunfire or abyssal. Am i insane, or does that actually make sense?
2x dorans has been built on mumu for literally months. look up azingy's mumu build.
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Problem is, i am getting flamed now every time we lose the game. Apparently we lost because i had no gp10 items. Not because irelia lost top so hard that i couldn't set a foot into my top jungle without dying, and then ran around and snowballed all other lanes. No, my double dorans lost us the game.
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On October 15 2012 22:02 Simberto wrote:
Problem is, i am getting flamed now every time we lose the game. Apparently we lost because i had no gp10 items. Not because irelia lost top so hard that i couldn't set a foot into my top jungle without dying, and then ran around and snowballed all other lanes. No, my double dorans lost us the game.
You have to live with that. Back when I used to carry with Ghostblade + Brutalizer Ashe I got flamed all the time, even when I had scores like 10-0.
I have tried going Doran's instead of Philo a while ago, before the recent changes to Amumu, and wasn't satisfied at all. I guess it's better now because of the buff on E's manacost?
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not even azingy stack rings anymore, the way to play amumu, like with every jungler is to tax your lanes more than they can tax you.
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On October 15 2012 22:37 zulu_nation8 wrote:
not even azingy stack rings anymore, the way to play amumu, like with every jungler is to tax your lanes more than they can tax you.
That should go without saying, especially for Amumu. Too good when farmed.
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On October 15 2012 22:18 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2012 22:02 Simberto wrote:
Problem is, i am getting flamed now every time we lose the game. Apparently we lost because i had no gp10 items. Not because irelia lost top so hard that i couldn't set a foot into my top jungle without dying, and then ran around and snowballed all other lanes. No, my double dorans lost us the game. You have to live with that. Back when I used to carry with Ghostblade + Brutalizer Ashe I got flamed all the time, even when I had scores like 10-0. I have tried going Doran's instead of Philo a while ago, before the recent changes to Amumu, and wasn't satisfied at all. I guess it's better now because of the buff on E's manacost?
The main problem i have with philo is that it very often means that you cant fight 2v2 with the enemy jungler, which is really annoying in any countergank situation.
Also 2 dorans are more manareg then a philo.
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If you're going 2 dorans and you're not maxing q you're doing it wrong
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United States47024 Posts
On October 13 2012 07:30 Tooplark wrote:
I actually almost completely ignore tantrum when jungling. While it's faster than cry mode and keeps you healthier, it also destroys your mana pool, making jungling without blue really slow. W also makes dragon go super quickly.
In fact, the only time I level tantrum before 8 is in lane.
I typically build either glacial, aegis, or shurelia first, depending on what I'm feeling like.
This makes no sense--Tantrum isn't less mana efficient than Despair, so using it doesn't "destroy your mana pool" any more than Despair does. Crying creeps down doesn't magically save you mana because it still does less damage per mana spent than Tantrum does.
For comparison:
Rank 1 Tantrum is 75 damage for 35 mana, or 2.14 damage per point of mana spent.
Rank 5 Tantrum is 175 damage for 25 mana, or 5 damage per point of mana.
Rank 1 Despair is 8+1.5% max HP damage for 8 mana. Most jungle monsters have typically 300-500 HP (with the buffs and the big minigolem having 1k+). Against a "typical" 400 HP monster, this is ~1.75 damage per point of mana spent, and against a big 1k HP monster, though against the bigger monsters push that to ~2.875.
Rank 5 Despair is 24+2.7% max HP damage for 8 mana. Using the same numbers as above, we get 4.35 damage per point of mana spent against smaller monsters, and ~6.375 against bigger ones.
So what this means is that Tantrum is somewhat more mana-efficient against small monsters, and somewhat less mana efficient against bigger ones. But since the jungling without blue buff typically entails clearing small camps, it means that using Tantrum to clear camps SAVES you mana compared to crying them down, because Tantrum is more mana-efficient at dealing damage to the weaker creeps.
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How odd. I always feel cramped for mana when I'm maxing E first. Perhaps I just notice not having the mana to Tantrum more than I notice not having the mana to cry...
Either way, I do prefer being able to take drag/baron earlier. Level 6 -> gank bot with ult, probably force them back, and if someone's healthy enough to tank drag you can do it right then. (unless enemy mid and jungle converge on you and your mid doesn't help)
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The reason you take e is because it allows you to clear faster if you're good at manipulating the buffs to get hit by e and not the tiny ranged lizards
After a certain point you really shouldn't be worrying too much about mana pool anyway, amumu's pretty forgiving and you usually end up with either a philo or some dorans
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Another reason is that you are just faster with e then if you only took ranks in w. Thus, even if you get similar amounts of damage per mana, you consume more mana per second because you kill stuff faster, making you go oom faster because there is less time for the mana to regenerate. Of course, you still want to be faster, otherwise you could just punch everything to death for ages, and thus have insane mana effficiency. After all, the main point of having that mana is using it. The faster you are in the jungle, the more camps you can get at equal amounts of ganking, thus increasing the total amount of money your team has.
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Yeah I don't know why you'd ever max W over E. You clear camps faster, are tankier, and do more damage in ganks when maxing E first.
I've never found mana to be a huge issue with amumu - you have philo and are just clearing small camps quickly and camping lanes anyway. If you're low on mana it usually means you should go back for more items/wards anyway.
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Only time I ever have mana issues on Amumu is if I'm pretending to be spider man and using Q to get to every camp.
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On October 17 2012 03:20 Ryuu314 wrote:
Only time I ever have mana issues on Amumu is if I'm pretending to be spider man and using Q to get to every camp.
Should play Lee Sin then. Q to camps all day!
If I'm stomping hard enough, I get chalice on Amumu. Cry all day, never not cry all day.
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On October 17 2012 04:02 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 03:20 Ryuu314 wrote:
Only time I ever have mana issues on Amumu is if I'm pretending to be spider man and using Q to get to every camp. Should play Lee Sin then. Q to camps all day! If I'm stomping hard enough, I get chalice on Anever notcry all day.
I do play leesin. He's my top three most played! Bandage toss feels more Spider-Man-y tho
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Some nice ideas in this thread. I've been an amumu lover almost since I started playing the game so by now I've tried a whole bunch of stuff.
I tried this out (maxing W quickly, ignoring E). Seemed to be a pretty big difference on double golems or buffs in those mid levels, but wraiths and wolves are also worse. Also I was feeling the absence of E's dmg reduction passive. I didn't notice any increased mana efficiency though.
I've been enjoying more the suggestion of maxing Q quickly (after lvl2 E and lvl1 W). The increased damage and lower cooldown of Q really makes you a lot more scrappy in those chaotic fights and having a second bandage makes you a lot better at finishing someone off.
I don't really dig the double dorans build. I don't feel like the AP makes a difference, so it feels like all you're buying is mana regen and health at a big premium. Recently I've been trying a chalice first, followed by sorc shoes and a dorans shield, sorc shoes->chain vest, or chalice->ninja tabi. The chalice seems like a good value, it's not like the MR is wasted although it's maybe not necessary immediately. However, the chalice may be overkill if you hvae a katarina or something in mid so you can hog blue.
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On October 16 2012 02:03 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
If you're going 2 dorans and you're not maxing q you're doing it wrong
Eh the recent nerf makes this less viable. Although I am a true believer in always maxing q in any mumu build. Mumu isn't naturlly tanky enough by himself so he kinda relies on items/skills and his q with a 3.7 second cooldown is gg for any skirmish where his ult isn't aplicable. How I pine for the days of 1:1 scale on q
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On October 16 2012 02:37 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 07:30 Tooplark wrote:
I actually almost completely ignore tantrum when jungling. While it's faster than cry mode and keeps you healthier, it also destroys your mana pool, making jungling without blue really slow. W also makes dragon go super quickly.
In fact, the only time I level tantrum before 8 is in lane.
I typically build either glacial, aegis, or shurelia first, depending on what I'm feeling like. This makes no sense--Tantrum isn't less mana efficient than Despair, so using it doesn't "destroy your mana pool" any more than Despair does. Crying creeps down doesn't magically save you mana because it still does less damage per mana spent than Tantrum does. For comparison: Rank 1 Tantrum is 75 damage for 35 mana, or 2.14 damage per point of mana spent. Rank 5 Tantrum is 175 damage for 25 mana, or 5 damage per point of mana. Rank 1 Despair is 8+1.5% max HP damage for 8 mana. Most jungle monsters have typically 300-500 HP (with the buffs and the big minigolem having 1k+). Against a "typical" 400 HP monster, this is ~1.75 damage per point of mana spent, and against a big 1k HP monster, though against the bigger monsters push that to ~2.875. Rank 5 Despair is 24+2.7% max HP damage for 8 mana. Using the same numbers as above, we get 4.35 damage per point of mana spent against smaller monsters, and ~6.375 against bigger ones. So what this means is that Tantrum is somewhat more mana-efficient against small monsters, and somewhat less mana efficient against bigger ones. But since the jungling without blue buff typically entails clearing small camps, it means that using Tantrum to clear camps SAVES you mana compared to crying them down, because Tantrum is more mana-efficient at dealing damage to the weaker creeps.
Interesting. I always suspected that W was more mana-efficient, but I guess I was (partially) wrong.
Regardless, I feel that maxing E first is still ideal because dat passive is way too good.
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Someone mentioned Scip remaking this thread 'cause it's old as balls. I'd be completely fine with that, especially since Bly might yell at me if I tried to update it or something....
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W's a bitch to deal with because few people max it, but when they do you destroy them early on then they get a few defensive stats of they come across you while you're wounded and suddenly it's all "OMG HOW IS HE DESTROYING ME SO HARD AT LEVEL 7".
My poor Mundo. Should get more MR on you.
Also Nautilus only true spiderman. Always jump to buildings terrain never not jump to terrain.
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8748 Posts
On October 15 2012 22:37 zulu_nation8 wrote:
not even azingy stack rings anymore, the way to play amumu, like with every jungler is to tax your lanes more than they can tax you.
it's 2 weeks since this comment and azingy's match history now has an average of 2 rings per game (one game with 1, one game with 2, one game with 3).
i just got a new rune page so i can jungle mumu and this thread is confusing me. so many different recommendations.
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On October 18 2012 09:56 LeSioN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 02:03 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
If you're going 2 dorans and you're not maxing q you're doing it wrong Eh the recent nerf makes this less viable. Although I am a true believer in always maxing q in any mumu build. Mumu isn't naturlly tanky enough by himself so he kinda relies on items/skills and his q with a 3.7 second cooldown is gg for any skirmish where his ult isn't aplicable. How I pine for the days of 1:1 scale on q
Are you criticizing the max q or the dorans rings? I don't go dorans anymore, but if you read, I said "IF you're going 2 dorans..."
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On October 18 2012 11:24 WaveofShadow wrote:
Someone mentioned Scip remaking this thread 'cause it's old as balls. I'd be completely fine with that, especially since Bly might yell at me if I tried to update it or something....
Ummm, sure. I can make the thread this Saturday since I got school this whole Friday zzz.
You guys can PM me suggestions for builds/setups/etc. but I won't guarantee I will put your "max W first" or "Abyssal Sunfire always" builds in there if I don't find them convincing enough
But if your elo is massive I will probably put it in just to avoid being called some sort of I don't even know what term is used for people that don't respect people who have higher elo than you
but I am sure I don't want to be called that so yeah. there you go
And no Yango before you PM me I will not write that Amumu likes 2nd blue buff extraordinarily much. That's like the one thing you will 100% not read there just because.
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On November 02 2012 04:44 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2012 22:37 zulu_nation8 wrote:
not even azingy stack rings anymore, the way to play amumu, like with every jungler is to tax your lanes more than they can tax you. it's 2 weeks since this comment and azingy's match history now has an average of 2 rings per game (one game with 1, one game with 2, one game with 3). i just got a new rune page so i can jungle mumu and this thread is confusing me. so many different recommendations.
maybe he went back to it idk, there was a period of many weeks where he went double gp10 to sunfire. I still like philo because you need health regen in the jungle.
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oh, running vamp quints on mumu works pretty nice too btw
don't think they're worth giving up AP or armor for, but you have slightly higher health after big camps
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On November 02 2012 06:08 Tooplark wrote:
oh, running vamp quints on mumu works pretty nice too btw
don't think they're worth giving up AP or armor for, but you have slightly higher health after big camps
I am pretty sure spell vamp quints are terrible on Amumu:
comparing them to HP5 quints, these regenerate 97.2 hp/minute
in comparison, you'd have to deal 4860 damage/minute to creeps.
"but wait Scip!" you might say. "If you kill buffs, you might do a little bit more than that!"
That is very true, you can do more than 4860 damage/minute, though it is not guaranteed. But then remember we are comparing thes runes to HP5 quints which are pretty damn terrible.
(You usually don't need the extra healing because you usually want to get Shurelyas quite early. Therefore, Philostone. Otherwise, Doran's Shield)
edit: also just for the record I build Doran's Ring often. So that will be mentioned in the guide a lot.
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Spell vamp quints for Amumu are...terrible. If you are concerned about falling too low on health run armor or AP quints instead of MS quints.
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I've been experimenting with the double dorans sorc boots build and its fun as hell to blow people up, but just doesn't feel like i'm filling the amumu role properly in teamfights when i get blown up after my ult wears off
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Well, compare this to a different build. 2 dorans + sorc boots cost you 1700g. With a 2x gp10 build, for 1625 g, you would have a philo and a HoG which give you a total combat stats of 200 health. Obviously, dorans are superior here with 160 health, 30 ap and 20 spellpen +boots2 at this point.
This means that if you expect non-onesided fights to happen, for a large period of the game the dorans start is strictly superior to the gp10s. 2 dorans give a similar amount of combat stats as both gp10s combined for 675g less. I personally don't really miss the health regen from philo and don't think i really drop low in the jungle. I will watch this a bit more in the future. If the health regen really has a neglectable effect, it will take your gp10s a lot of time to generate 675g. Starting with 2 dorans does not force you to suddenly go crazy ap mummy, you can still follow your normal build path easily. The main think this boils down to for me is that neither Shurelyas nor Randuins are that good on amumu in my opinion, which makes getting the gp10 items much less attractive then on other similar junglers like skarner.
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On November 02 2012 06:26 Sandster wrote:
Spell vamp quints for Amumu are...terrible. If you are concerned about falling too low on health run armor or AP quints instead of MS quints.
HP/5 quints ftw.
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On November 02 2012 10:17 Simberto wrote:
Well, compare this to a different build. 2 dorans + sorc boots cost you 1700g. With a 2x gp10 build, for 1625 g, you would have a philo and a HoG which give you a total combat stats of 200 health. Obviously, dorans are superior here with 160 health, 30 ap and 20 spellpen +boots2 at this point.
This means that if you expect non-onesided fights to happen, for a large period of the game the dorans start is strictly superior to the gp10s. 2 dorans give a similar amount of combat stats as both gp10s combined for 675g less. I personally don't really miss the health regen from philo and don't think i really drop low in the jungle. I will watch this a bit more in the future. If the health regen really has a neglectable effect, it will take your gp10s a lot of time to generate 675g. Starting with 2 dorans does not force you to suddenly go crazy ap mummy, you can still follow your normal build path easily. The main think this boils down to for me is that neither Shurelyas nor Randuins are that good on amumu in my opinion, which makes getting the gp10 items much less attractive then on other similar junglers like skarner.
I couldn't disagree with you more. Doran's Rings on amumu is just so inefficient.. if you want HP there are better items as 950 gold for 160 HP isn't great. The MP5 is not needed and is also given by philo. The AP can be nice, but if you want ap you should build abyssal scepter instead of delaying it by wasting money on dorans rings.
Also I'm not sure why you think Shurelyias and Randuins are not good. Since amumus primary role is initiator and he benefits from all of the stats on Shurelyias I don't know why you wouldn't want it. Randuins is one of the better tank items in the game and is always worth upgrading to as 5th or 6th item if you need more armor than frozen heart is giving you. If you don't need the randuins, just let the HoG sit there and pay for tiself while giving you HP then sell it and buy whatever 6th item you want.
The only benefit of the dorans rings is a slightly stronger early game but your sacrificing securing gp10 to do it. Its like buying a soulstealer.. if you go dorans rings and don't snowball then you are going to be pretty useless as you aren't tanky and don't really do damage either.
I think its pretty optimal to go philo/hog -> aegis + boots 2 -> situational in almost every game.
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See, but that is exactly my point. HoG and Philo don't make you tanky either, and it takes A LOT of time for them to give you money that makes you more tanky then 2 dorans rings.
The mp5 is on both philo and the dorans, which is why i did not mention it, and it is in my opinion really important to jungling if you give away the second blue. This is why you could not simply directly buy tankiness in the form of an aegis or dorans shields in my opinion. Without any manareg, jungling is pretty annoying, and you are oom in important situations way too often. The main problem with Philo + HoG is that they give you such an abysmal amount of combat stats at an important point in the game, and i don't see the gp10 paying for it fast enough.
I don't get where your "you are not tanky enough because you bought 2 dorans rings" comes from. It is simply not rooted in reality, since the gp10s do not make you more tanky, and the amount of time you need to hold onto them to make enough money to make you more tanky is large, too. It takes you more then 10 minutes to even make up the 675 gold you paid more for your gp10s for less combat stats, and then an additional time to make even more money from them to actually reach the better stats the 2 dorans rings give. This means that you will be a lot weaker during multiple important early fights, which can easily have a much larger impact on your lategame then the income from your 2 gp10s. In a normal game, you will get your aegis much faster with 2 dorans then with 2 gp10s. Thus, with 2 dorans you are both more tanky AND do more damage for at least the first 20 minutes of a game, usually longer. This means you are stronger during the whole early and a lot of the midgame, giving your team advantages in countergank situations, invades, dragon fights etc...You get your aegis faster for the aura, you get boots2 faster for better ganks, and i don't see the later advantages of the gp10s surpass the positive effects of your early strength (which also leads to more money/less money for the enemies) in anything but the most passive games.
Also, your equalizing not buying gp10 with buying snowball items is quite ridiculous. Following that logic everyone should buy 4 gp10 items for a better lategame, and of course you can always sell them after they paid for themselves.
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United States23745 Posts
Tank Amumu and AP Amumu are two very different things. He is a soloq terror if you build him AP since you are able to blow up single targets fairly quickly. Tank Amumu is better in premades where you can count on coordination from your team to do the damage when you use your ult and stun. I believe they are both viable, just depends on your personal play style.
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Starting 2 dorans does not mean you go full crazy ap amumu. Usually you go into a normal tank build after this, the main question is just about the source of your early manaregeneration, which is something you pretty much need. The main choices here are Dorans or a Philo (i guess one could think about a chalice or other ap item like that, but since it does not give anything else you want, and has no real other advantages either it usually boils down to dorans vs philo. And here i see dorans as superior because they give you actual combat stats, too, while a philo does basically nothing in a fight.
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I think you are kind of missing my point. You're analysis about being weaker early because you bought the GP10s is fine. My whole point is if you want to sacrifice the secured income of the GP10 for a stronger early game then there are better things to buy than doran's rings. If you want to do more damage early then just rush abyssal scepter or even buy a haunting guise because both are more cost effective than buying dorans rings.
And the snowball thing is not ridiculous because we are talking about jungle amumu. Junglers have limited income because they are not normally farming in a lane - buying non-gp10 items is only worth it if you think they will make you strong enough to secure kills or assists that you would not be able to create if you had gp10. If you buy dorans rings and have a bad early game you will be useless. If you buy gp10 and have a bad early game you are not completely fucked.
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United States23745 Posts
From what I'm reading here, 2 dorans seems to be the stronger choice, but building Philo and HoG is the safer choice. Mess up a gank? Oh well, got my gp10 ticking. Guess the choice boils down to how confidant you are in your ganking ability.
Edit: The problem with rushing Abyssal is the ingrediants are much more expensive and not as useful as double dorans in the beginning. Blasting wand is only slightly cheaper than two dorans and gives no mana/health for only slightly more power. Utilizing the variety of stats dorans gives you for such a cheap cost is pretty important.
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Sometimes I just go straight to Aegis. Who needs that gp10 crap, let's teamfight.
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Nah, the choice boils down to how much fighting you expect to happen before 20-25 min. If you don't intend to fight, or are so far behind that you can never fight anything close to a fair fight anyways, gp10s are probably better. If you intend/expect to fight closer fights where you are not at a huge advantage due to there being more people on your side of the fight. The cases where the gear you have will change the effect of a gank are usually rather rare early on on amumu anyways. But in 2v2/3v3/4v4 situations, an earlier aegis and generally having more stats can make or break the fight.
And adrifft, i don't think you are correct. In my opinion, you need to have some sort of mana itemisation early on amumu, which limits what you can buy. Both the things you mentioned do not solve this problem.
Rushing abyssal is also not very smart since you are squishy as fuck with only an abyssal against half the enemy team. Haunting guise also does not solve your mana problems. The main advantage of dorans is that they are cheap, give you the mana you need, and have other stats that you like, too. Neither an abyssal or a haunting guise do this, and they are both at a higher pricepoint, too. Especially the rather expensive abyssal sceptre. If i would think i did not need the mana, i would probably just rush an aegis as my first item. However, i do not think so, and the mixed stats on the dorans rings make them a pretty good first buy if you want to have a strong early-midgame and don't want to uselessly delay your teamfighting power by buying gp10s. The rings are a stepping stone that delivers a good mix of important stats before you get your real items, while not delaying them by too much. Neither rushing abyssal nor buying a haunting guise can do this.
I don't want to have a cheesy allin build, i want a solid gameplan that makes me strong early enough without sacrificing my lategame. I think you greatly overestimate how much income gp10 items give you. They have their place, but i think amumu is one of the junglers who is better of without them in most situations. If you expect an incredibly long laning phase, getting gp10s is still a good options. But in a normal game with lots of fighting occuring in both jungles for buffs, 2v2s and 3v3s with both junglers involved in lanes, and maybe even a fight for dragon early on, i don't want to waste my first 1600g on 500g worth of combat stats. I might experiment with skipping the dorans altogether for a faster aegis, but i expect to have rather large mana problems with this, making me incredibly blue dependent for longer then i want to be.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
I have to go to school soon so I will be brief right now:
If you won't get 2nd blue buff, you need mana regeneration, otherwise you would have to build an unhealthy amount of mana pots (can you die of overdose of blue drinks?). Since you 99% of the time wanna give 2nd blue to your mid I am going to assume you need mana regen.
Possible sources are Philostone and Doran's Ring. So, when do you want which? It doesn't REALLY depend so much on how many early fights you expect, simply because it is so fkin hard to predict, it depends mostly on how early/if at all do you want to build Shurelya's. Generally, if you get them before Aegis, after Aegis or maaaaaaybe(probably not though) after the item you build after Aegis, then go for Philostone. Otherwise there is a very real chance you wouldn't get to finish it whole game and that would be a shame indeed.
So the real question is, HoG or not HoG? Well, HoG is really quite a shitty item. The only reason to ever buy it on a jungler is if you want to build Randuins. But then you have a problem because
You want Aegis+Shurelyas (or Abyssal+Sunfire if you are obsessed with the idea of carrying by doing damage) so Randuins comes into play quite late. Often the game ends before that.
So I'd say build HoG only and only if you are almost sure that the game will last that long AND you will want Randuin's then. Even then you might not want to build Randuin's.
So the last thing, once you build Philostone and you don't build HoG, do you want to build a Doran's Ring? Very often yes, you don't really need the mana pots then so you kinda break even on the item slots and imo a free item slot that's not occupied by a Doran's item is usually a bit of a waste. So yeah try it out I really like it.
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Abyssal sunfire kinda sucks because sunfire isn't really a good item on amumu since he has really pool sticking power best to get cdr to improve it and your damage and get tank items for the rest of your slots. Abyssal is alright but I'd get it after tank items.
I like sunfire on top laners because it wins duels hard top and is OK for 800 gold to get the extra damage it won't help much in fights but it's something. On jungle I'd never bother. Finish shurelya+chain vest is cheaper and better.
Hog is pretty good usually if you can get it early but If I back with like 2k gold I'll usually just get aegis and go frozen heart. Often you'll have a situation where you won't be finishing aegis that soon anyway and it won't make that huge a difference might as well get that hog and it'll give you some free hp later or even better save you money on randuins.
Not going philo stone is dumb unless you're getting blues because of all the money you're spending on hp and mana pots or losing based on missed opportunity and farm thne by the time you have mercs+aegis you could probably have philo+aegis+mercs anyway.
I don't like dolans since the AP nerf but I don't think it's a big deal either way if you get it.
I'm a frozen heart fan on mumu because I always run out of mana except in really short teamfights where I started full mana.
I sometimes get sorc boots on amumu too and I don't think they're a bad choice because amumus base damage is really quite good and often you won't worry about being CC'd a lot. Tabi is pretty good too in the same situation but you'll be playing more agressively or they have 3 physical damage dealers on the team.
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Philo > drings 99% of the time. Not mentioning the gp5 at all, philo's health regen is vastly underestimated at allowing to you be in the jungle. It's a ton of health regen for anything but base->dragon. Otherwise you have to buy health pots too. Your other other source of health regen would be hp5 quints, and you'd have to give up armor/AP/MS quints to do that. Shurelia is also freaking amazing.
Hog is standard in the meta but more debatable, because it delays aegis by so much. This is an item that's perfectly fine to skip - but not with a dring. Get parts for haunting guise or aegis instead if you are concerned about items in the 800-850g range and want team fight items faster.
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Nobodies going dring over philo, the build suggested was philo+dring over philo+hog before you buy aegis.
Fast haunting guise is kinda dumb because of how low amumus damage is when his Q has like a billion second cd and you're not that tanky.
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On November 03 2012 00:03 Slayer91 wrote:
Nobodies going dring over philo, the build suggested was philo+dring over philo+hog before you buy aegis.
Fast haunting guise is kinda dumb because of how low amumus damage is when his Q has like a billion second cd and you're not that tanky.
Speak for yourself. The entire earlier part of this page was some guy saying double dring over gp5, for better teamfight presence. Haunting guise is no less dumb that double doran - they're both dead end items that provide hp and damage. If you don't want hog then, like my post said, buy something useful (like kindlegem or parts for aegis) instead of dring.
You should be maxing Q early anyway (with only 1-2 points in E). CDR is not bad on amumu but certainly not the most important stat for him. Haunting guise is perfectly fine for pub stomp builds where you don't have to be too tanky, but competitive builds have always been gp5->aegis/shurelia/chainvest item.
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oh shit i thought that stuff was a year old and scip started posting after one other dude
not making e really slows down your farming though right? Q is so fucking mana intensive for a single target spell and the main reason you run out of mana in general. I'd prefer to just farm like a boss to level 13 and wreck kids.
Double dolans isn't good anymore if it ever was because of the ap nerfs. Teamfight presence is highly theoretical in the early game because at best there's a 5v5 dragon fight and more typically there's random skirmishes that break out around the map from jungler and laner interaction usually mid+jungles going to bot or top. Philo will keep you probably healthier than the dorans and the money saved on hp pots and the gp10 for later makes it a much more versatile option.
You generally shouldn't be looking for fights early as amumu anyway you want to either gank OR maybe fight if your ult is up. Hopefully the threat of an early ult stops them grouping too early and you can farm up to reduce cds (remember E reduces A LOT too when you level it if you're getting hit the -0.5 second cd is more significant if you already have CDR items and higher levels in it)
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Yeah, I used to max E first, but the same problems like you said - you use your ult and bandage toss in a mid-game team fight and are utterly useless after. Now I take 2 points in E by level 4 and max Q after. It is a little more slower and more mana intensive to farm, but lower cd / higher damage on Q is so much better in small skirmishes and ganks, and you can still do wraiths/wolves pretty quickly, and bandage does a lot of damage to golems/buffs.
EDIT: I'm not saying max Q is gospel - just saying that, with the meta favoring gank-oriented junglers and mid-game fights, many people have been maxing Q. Amumu still clears pretty quickly even without max E; just have to be a little more conservative with mana usage. And the damage of a ranked up Q -> auto E R is DEVASTATING, and you'll have Q up again soon.
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Well I'm also a fan of showing up to a lane and shit stomping people when you're E is maxed because you get the cd reset from a whole wave or more and they don't expect that much damage from you and then you close em with R and Q and free kill + cs.
also fuck the meta always farm never not farm E for real men
On November 02 2012 10:17 Simberto wrote:
Well, compare this to a different build. 2 dorans + sorc boots cost you 1700g. With a 2x gp10 build, for 1625 g, you would have a philo and a HoG which give you a total combat stats of 200 health. Obviously, dorans are superior here with 160 health, 30 ap and 20 spellpen +boots2 at this point.
This means that if you expect non-onesided fights to happen, for a large period of the game the dorans start is strictly superior to the gp10s. 2 dorans give a similar amount of combat stats as both gp10s combined for 675g less. I personally don't really miss the health regen from philo and don't think i really drop low in the jungle. I will watch this a bit more in the future. If the health regen really has a neglectable effect, it will take your gp10s a lot of time to generate 675g. Starting with 2 dorans does not force you to suddenly go crazy ap mummy, you can still follow your normal build path easily. The main think this boils down to for me is that neither Shurelyas nor Randuins are that good on amumu in my opinion, which makes getting the gp10 items much less attractive then on other similar junglers like skarner.
First off "combat stats" isn't a relevant stat since early game you can't choose when fight happen meaning you cant go to base and come to a fight with full health and mana. Regen is an absurdly efficient stat for early game because of the farming you are doing during the early game constantly.
Then we have the fact that you completely disregard the ticking gold you get. If you're getting philo at 6 minutes by 16 minutes you already have +300 gold. Now suddenly you have nearly philo+ruby over 2 dorans rings.
Also instead of 2 dorans + sorcs we're talking philo+most of an aegis (depending on how many hp pots you have to buy to make up for philo and how much your gp/10 ticked)
Comparing HoG to any other item in terms of pure stats is ridiculous since you intend to buy it to tick up for 15-20 minutes so you can be totally fucking bitching with shurelyas+randuins when your shadow counterpart amumu is sitting around with 2 dorans abyssal and sorcs and he's lucky if his extra 30 ap got any kills you wouldn't have in the early game.
The spell pen amumu does a bit more damage from Q+R but then he doesn't have nearly the threat of the shurelya/randuin amumu with short CD Q and a lot of health and armour to keep AD carries under check.
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8748 Posts
On November 03 2012 00:03 Slayer91 wrote:
Nobodies going dring over philo, the build suggested was philo+dring over philo+hog before you buy aegis.
Azingy is. In the recent games I've seen in his match history, he has never gotten philo stone and he's gotten this many rings: 1, 3, 2, 3, 2, 2, 3, 2, 3, 3. Sorc boots in every game and always goes either abyssal or sunfire next. And then FH.
I really think it's about getting useful stats ASAP. If you want your ganks to matter then you gotta build like that. Your first two ults should be getting kills and if you go defensive boots or gp10 items then they might not get kills.
Also I think he's usually using mpen, flat armor, flat mr, ap quints. 0/21/9
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philo keeps your HP up in the jungle so you can react better to ganks and have more freedom to gank. The miniscule extra ap drings give you won't matter that much in ganks, the jungler should also be the last source of damage in ganks. Shurelias is also pretty important so there's really no point in skipping philo ever. Amumu's just a not a very good jungler to all in with, but if you really wanted to I'd go like mobility boots first, then ring.
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He's a bit like Malphite - generally builds gp5->defensive items out of the jungle because they're the most cost efficient items, and his role is an initiator instead of main damage source. But top lane Malphites often build the same way as AP amumu - sorc/sunfire/abyssal. It's hard for most junglers to consistently get that kind of farm, but if you can do it, then hey why not.
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On November 03 2012 00:40 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 00:03 Slayer91 wrote:
Nobodies going dring over philo, the build suggested was philo+dring over philo+hog before you buy aegis. Azingy is. In the recent games I've seen in his match history, he has never gotten philo stone and he's gotten this many rings: 1, 3, 2, 3, 2, 2, 3, 2, 3, 3. Sorc boots in every game and always goes either abyssal or sunfire next. And then FH. I really think it's about getting useful stats ASAP. If you want your ganks to matter then you gotta build like that. Your first two ults should be getting kills and if you go defensive boots or gp10 items then they might not get kills. Also I think he's usually using mpen, flat armor, flat mr, ap quints. 0/21/9
2 Dorans gives you a full combo damage increase of 60. If you can survive an extra tower hit you can just hit them again with an auto attack, that's the difference. How many time will that make your first and second ults a kill or not?
Sorcs boots are sorc boots. They make you do more damage but defensive boots help you dive and survive teamfights. I build them situationally and I think they are much better than dorans rings. Mercs also let you do more damage simply by getting CC'd less you can get more DPS off with autos E and W if surviving isn't a problem.
I don't think amumu needs stats ASAP. He's not really an early game powerhouse and his lategame is so strong that if you by whatever misfortune lose a kill or something because of that 60 damage it's still fine because as long as you have zero deaths going into midgame you're going to make it up easily the more tanky you are the bigger threat you are because your base damage is so strong. The problem with azingys build is he's pretty investing (475+750+~1900+800)=almost 4k gold on damage which makes him much easier to poke down or cc and focus. Sure sometimes you'll get that extra 100 damage per target with your abyssal ult but your death relies so much pressure from their entire team because of your Q's defensively and offensively good for peeling killing carrries or supporting killing carries.
I think shurelyas+sorcs+abyssal+chain vest or shurelyas+sorcs+negatron+glacial is much more versatile.
Per AP changes I'd say it's completely situational, but now I'd say most of the time being tankier is better than doing slightly more damage in the initiation phase.
Sunfire abyssal isn't really that common on top malphite either. Alex ich did the azingy build on mid malphite but he abanoned it with the malphite nerfs. I'm going abyssal and sunfires sometimes but malphites builds are pretty flexible and stuff like randuins, frozen heart, ga, shurelyas and warmogs are all great items. (Often you leave the negatorn there until last item or get chalice into athenes if you need it for lane for MR)
I decided to run some napkin math on the numbers for AP vs CDR on amumu.
+ Show Spoiler +
DPS Calculations for amumu at max level, 100 ap
8.75 DPS from Q
~20 DPS from W
8.3 DPS from E
Combo damage + 200
DPS +~37
Sunfire = ~40 DPS
0% CDR
Q does 40 DPS
W does 78 DPS
E does 30 DPS
Combo damage =923 damage
Combo damage without R = 573 every 8 seconds
40% CDR
Q does 67 DPS
E does 58.3 DPS
+~55 dps
Combo damage = 573 every 4.8 seconds
aproximate cost for 40% CDR = 1500
approximate cost for 100 ap = 2k
The numbers here show that both CDR and ap in theory are pretty bad in comparision to sunfire cape but we see few people buy sunfire cape. The reason here is that amumu does not have heavy sticking power and also isn't very tanky both of which contribute to having trouble sitting there with sunfire ticking. So even if the AP +spell pen+sunfire combo look great on paper being able to back off and recombo with Q E and back off again is a safer and more reliable way to do damage than just running at them while getting CC'd (no mercs remember).
Same reason you wouldn't buy sunfire on malph is that you do a lot of damage just from your Q and E and R mid/late game, but in lane most of your DPS will come from sunfire and auto attacks.
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As someone who plays with Azingy on a pretty regular basis, I wouldn't recommend his build to starting Amumu players. He plays an extremely aggressive Amumu (and does it really early on), mixing up his jungle and gank paths depending on the situation.
If you're starting out on Amumu, definitely run the standard 2 gp10 build as it gives you the greatest versatility (even if you're not doing too great) come late game.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
My goodness so many things to respond to. This will be one hell of a post but I kinda have to involve myself in this so here ya go
On November 03 2012 00:08 Sandster wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 00:03 Slayer91 wrote:
Nobodies going dring over philo, the build suggested was philo+dring over philo+hog before you buy aegis.
Fast haunting guise is kinda dumb because of how low amumus damage is when his Q has like a billion second cd and you're not that tanky. Speak for yourself. The entire earlier part of this page was some guy saying double dring over gp5, for better teamfight presence. Haunting guise is no less dumb that double doran - they're both dead end items that provide hp and damage. If you don't want hog then, like my post said, buy something useful (like kindlegem or parts for aegis) instead of dring. You should be maxing Q early anyway (with only 1-2 points in E). CDR is not bad on amumu but certainly not the most important stat for him. Haunting guise is perfectly fine for pub stomp builds where you don't have to be too tanky, but competitive builds have always been gp5->aegis/shurelia/chainvest item.
Yeah, as far as I know nobody (notable) reccomends building Haunting Guise at all. It is overshadowed by Aegis, Shurelyas and similiarly costed items.
Dring is useful after Philostone. Firstly, you don't need to buy manapots afterwards, so it saves a bit of money. Secondly, it gives you very cost-efficient amount of fighting stats that are very useful for both ganking and fighting (extra damage, HP for towerdiving/tanking). And thirdly, it ever so slightly increases your farming speed (with my rate of farming and without doran's ring I'll have to wait about 2-3 seconds to kill wraiths with my W, same for wolves).
You should justify your statement that you should max Q. Firstly, I disagree with that, secondly, Slayer91 disagree with that (both of us are the Amumu experts of LP UEW) and thirdly, the Azubu Frost ? guy who played Amumu once in the S2 grand finals maxed E. I agree, CDR is not the most important stat for Amumu, but it is useful certainly. I disagree, I think Haunting Guise is a terrible pubstomp item (speaking from experience). Yes, philostone into aegis+shurelyas is standard (whether to include HoG in there is a matter of debate)
On November 03 2012 00:10 Slayer91 wrote:
not making e really slows down your farming though right? Q is so fucking mana intensive for a single target spell and the main reason you run out of mana in general. I'd prefer to just farm like a boss to level 13 and wreck kids.
Double dolans isn't good anymore if it ever was because of the ap nerfs. Teamfight presence is highly theoretical in the early game because at best there's a 5v5 dragon fight and more typically there's random skirmishes that break out around the map from jungler and laner interaction usually mid+jungles going to bot or top. Philo will keep you probably healthier than the dorans and the money saved on hp pots and the gp10 for later makes it a much more versatile option.
You generally shouldn't be looking for fights early as amumu anyway you want to either gank OR maybe fight if your ult is up. Hopefully the threat of an early ult stops them grouping too early and you can farm up to reduce cds (remember E reduces A LOT too when you level it if you're getting hit the -0.5 second cd is more significant if you already have CDR items and higher levels in it)
Yes maxing E makes you farm really slow and yes, Q is the large mana drain on Amumu. Double Dorans is still alright though I'd personally do it only if my top laner would get Shurelyas for me. The main point aren't really skirmishes as much as counterganks. With philo you usually lose them but with double Doran's you don't give a single fuck (simplified explanation but you get the point). But yeah it probably is a very niche build.
No you shouldn't look for fights if you build Philo but you should look for fights if you build Dorans. That's kind of the whole point.
Damn this I'll edit in more responses later. So much effort.
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United States47024 Posts
On November 03 2012 04:36 Scip wrote:
Dring is useful after Philostone. Firstly, you don't need to buy manapots afterwards, so it saves a bit of money. Secondly, it gives you very cost-efficient amount of fighting stats that are very useful for both ganking and fighting (extra damage, HP for towerdiving/tanking). And thirdly, it ever so slightly increases your farming speed (with my rate of farming and without doran's ring I'll have to wait about 2-3 seconds to kill wraiths with my W, same for wolves).
I'm not sure I agree with 2Dring after Philo. The marginal gain of buying 2 DRings after Philo seems less than the marginal gain of just finishing Shurelya's at that point.
On August 21 2012 07:59 TheYango wrote:
Not sold on Philo + 2DRing vs. Shurelya's.
Shurelya's - 2200 gold, 1 item slot for:
330 HP
30 HP5
15 MP5
15% CDR
Shurelya's active
vs.
Philo + 2xDRing - 1750 gold, 3 item slots for:
160 HP
15 HP5
18 MP5
30 AP
5 gp10
The extra AP doesn't feel like it's worth giving up the early ult CDR (which actually matters quite a bit on the lower ult ranks), the Ruby Crystal's worth of extra HP, and the vastly superior positioning power due to having Shurelya's active relatively early.
I'd say the Shurelya's active is more instrumental for ganking/counterganking than some token AP.
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8748 Posts
On November 03 2012 02:55 DURRHURRDERP wrote:
As someone who plays with Azingy on a pretty regular basis, I wouldn't recommend his build to starting Amumu players. He plays an extremely aggressive Amumu (and does it really early on), mixing up his jungle and gank paths depending on the situation.
If you're starting out on Amumu, definitely run the standard 2 gp10 build as it gives you the greatest versatility (even if you're not doing too great) come late game.
This seems like the opposite of the proper conclusion. Ganking well with Amumu seems more difficult than team fighting and team fighting is going to happen anyway. So playing games without early aggression is just missing out on practicing early aggression. I can see how your suggestion would yield a better initial win rate but I don't see how it's a better way to start learning the champion. And since anyone who doesn't really desperately need to win wouldn't play a new champion in the first place, everyone is better off learning Amumu by playing an aggressive style. I mean it's not like he's the type of champion that has weird combos and mechanics to get comfortable with.
Once someone gets pretty good at ganking with a build geared toward aggression, then they can do the much more difficult thing of going back and picking up a philo stone and accomplishing the same things as when they go back and pick up two rings.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
No not 2* Dorans after philostone, only 1 Dring (2 drinks is too slot intensive, also you shouldn't need the extra manareg. of the second one)
I guess I'll write the skeleton of the guide here tommorow (european) morning and have you guys quality check it to make sure I didn't forget anything.
Like Dring vs. Shurelyas, Dring is cheap so like it makes you stronger up until the point where you would finish Shurelyas otherwise and then it gets even once the Dring builder gets Shurelyas so it's like be a bit stronger for 925 gold and then be weaker for 475 gold (using "gold" as time measurement here)
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I tried the 2x dring thing. Felt really squishy in any fights remotely even. Died more than I should have. We were winning a lot (karthus op) and once i had sorcs and abyssal I Could burst their squishies pretty hard but it felt more like a gimmicky 1v1 thing and I can always go shurelya aegis abyssal sorcs anyway. (at one point I killed their graves when he was farming bot tf ulted and I bursted him a bit ran into brush at 30% he was about 50% and q'd out and killed him lol)
Didn't feel like something you'd use in a tournament, just gimmicky solo queue stuff, but I am a bit biased here for sure.
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I am still waiting for any explanation as to why you would be more squishy with 2 dorans then with the standard gp10 build.
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Kinda the same reasoning as with Udyr philo>HoG I guess: your E reduces damage, so the regen from philo helps keeping you healthy (Udyr's shield), while double doran makes you clear camps more quickly but the damage you take sticks (HoG gives you more HP but that only beats philo if you're at 100% HP, which you won't without regen).
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On November 03 2012 05:03 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 02:55 DURRHURRDERP wrote:
As someone who plays with Azingy on a pretty regular basis, I wouldn't recommend his build to starting Amumu players. He plays an extremely aggressive Amumu (and does it really early on), mixing up his jungle and gank paths depending on the situation.
If you're starting out on Amumu, definitely run the standard 2 gp10 build as it gives you the greatest versatility (even if you're not doing too great) come late game. This seems like the opposite of the proper conclusion. Ganking well with Amumu seems more difficult than team fighting and team fighting is going to happen anyway. So playing games without early aggression is just missing out on practicing early aggression. I can see how your suggestion would yield a better initial win rate but I don't see how it's a better way to start learning the champion. And since anyone who doesn't really desperately need to win wouldn't play a new champion in the first place, everyone is better off learning Amumu by playing an aggressive style. I mean it's not like he's the type of champion that has weird combos and mechanics to get comfortable with. Once someone gets pretty good at ganking with a build geared toward aggression, then they can do the much more difficult thing of going back and picking up a philo stone and accomplishing the same things as when they go back and pick up two rings.
The problem is, Amumu isn't the greatest early game ganker. You're not gaining anything by playing Amumu aggressively early on that you wouldn't get from actual early game ganking junglers (you might as well play Lee Sin). Azingy plays a very weird + specific style and requires a lot of coordination from his team (definitely a lot for solo queue, even at high elo) and that is the main success of his playstyle. If you try running his style of play without the right coordination from your team it won't work; learning a safe/standard way of playing amumu (double gp10s) is a lot better for solo queue at lower elos.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
Ok so here's the guide skeleton tell me if you like it or if I should change anything
Skills:
Passive
- not very significant, has some synergy with Mpen and Magic Reduction, another reason to autoattack in teamfights, that's kinda it
Bandage Toss
- Mechanics of how it works etc copied straight from wiki (I have no shame)
- Usage in ganks: wait for an opponent to be in a position where he can't dodge/can dodge only by using flash OR throw it from fog of war (brush)
- Usage in teamfights: Initiating in combination with the ultimate, using it to stick and stun an important target (usually AD or AP carry) or, if your carries are significantly stronger, use it to peel for them
- Also a possible escape tool around wraiths/small golems or deep in a lane
Despair
- not really much to say here I guess, just turn it on in teamfights and jungle.
Tantrum
- Tanking creeps in lane fights to maximize your deeps
- Casting animation, might want to just red buff autoattack instead
- Mash that E button in teamfights
Curse of the Sad Mummy (best ultimate name ever)
- Usage in gank or smaller fights; ultimate then bandage toss for maximum amount of guaranteed CC/bandage or ulti if you aren't in range for ult zzz, Initiation with Bandage+ulti or counterinitiation (whatever that is, just ult when they jump in and you have 4 people in range).
- Wombo combo, Malphite/Orianna/Sona shit like that. Whoever has massive AoE ultimate works lol.
Masteries:
0/21/9 and explanation yaddy yadda, don't think anyone uses anything else?
Runes:
Armor or Magic Pen reds, I prefer Armor but I'll give some room to Mpen, also Drings+Mpen=alright
Armor yellows not much to add
Flat MR/MR18/Flat AP/Flat CDR long writeup about the difference between scaling and flat Mres zzz I personally prefer flat AP or CDR; AP is good for faster jungling also a bit more fighting strenght, CDR gives both of that too but also shortens CD on your first few ultimates so that's cute. I'll just say "it's your choice" in the end but we all know the runes I prefer are superior so yeah. Just to not offend anyone I guess.
Movement Speed quints, does anyone use anything else? I can mention flat AP if you want but it's kinda shitty imo, doesn't really speed up your jungle.
Summoner Spells:
Flash+Smite, surprise mothafaka
Skill order:
- WEQEER R>E>Q>W is the most standard, fastest for jungling, doesn't necessarily provide most fighting power but gives you most sustain in jungle and also the extra exp from faster farming DO give extra fighting power so yeah. Generally the preffered option.
- WEQEQ R>Q>E>W(/R>Q>W>E?) No one but Azingy (does he really?) use it so it's kinda only for weirdos. A bit stronger ganks (arguably because you are lower level, ho-ho-ho) and better fighting strenght, but seriously it slows down your jungling quite a lot. If you do that you probably best make your middle lane tax your wraiths and/or wolves constantly.
Items:
- Boots+3 start is the only way to go naturally
- Philostone first is standard for obvious reasons (sustain+Shurelya's, yaay)
- HoG is terrible but people do it so provide some justification for it (it's great if you build Randuin's eventually, usually when it doesn't matter anymore, whoooooo)
- Doran's Rings; can get one after Philostone, I think it's really good because it saves on manapots and also why not you have a spare slot so gogo Doran's. Also, you can build 2 of them instead of Philostone, you'll need some HP pots though, gives massive fighting strenght, need o be fkin aggro in lanes early to make it pay off. Also if you build 2 of them building into Shurelyas is awkward so you usually go Abyssal+Sunfire which is weird but w/e.
- Doran's Shield is cool, if they have a lot of Physical damage gives MASSIVE survivability so yeah. Build it after Philostone though you probably don't wan't to just build it first item. Good for tower diving (something Slayer aka Teut likes to do)
- OH YEAH WARDS AND POTS forgot 'bout that. Wards are awesome and you should buy them a lot, the usual warding places and why they are good. etcetera. Pots are good. HP pots early but usually you don't need them later on if you get Philostone, but you want to have a manapot or 2 in your inventory JUST IN CASE. Like, you finish your jungle path, have 150 mana and BOOM a fight starts happening but you are fine because you just pop your mana pots. Don't need them later on because your natural mana pool increases. Don't need them if you go philostone+Dring either.
- Mercs vs. Ninja easy choice, if little to no CC and/or magic damage, go Tabi, otherwise Mercs. Sorc boots are for weirdos who build 2 * Dring. Coolio.
- Standard build: Aegis+Shurelyas, standard for obvious reasons that I'll explain there yaay. Shurelyas vs. Aegis first kinda your choice, depends on how you want to teamfight and stuff I GOT THIS will explain nyan
- Sunfire+Abyssal, it's weird only Bly and Azingy do it and it's only if you go Doran's Ring first. Because if you want to build these items why did you build Philostone in the first place eh? so yeah deals deeps you usually don't need deeps w/e you want deeps. Note how fkin expensive it is though.
- Follow up items, Randuins vs. FH, so FH is for more bandage toss to stick to someone with blinks and stuff, Randuins gives enough sticking power against walkers, also synergizes with your ultimate. Randuins also gives more survivability. If you have a hardon for Mitt Romney and went HoG you can build it into Randuins now, congratulations.
- Banshees vs. FoN (I think Banshees is kinda universally better?)
- That's kinda it for items? Idk not that many good possible items because offense in general is kinda useless.
Jungling:
- Start blue buff, can start red buff if you want to do cheeky stuff like gank unexpected lanes at unexpected times, got this yeah
- Keeping around middle lane is usually good because your mid ganks are really good
- When doing jungle path don't start at Wraiths because it doesn't make sense
- When you ultimate is up you can most likely get kills, go get 'em gurl!
- gank pushed lanes, gank lanes where your teammates have hard CC, countergank lanes with your ultimate, zzzz I'll write it when I write it you got the drill
- fighting in even numbers is generally not a great idea if you went philostone, it is a marvelous fucking idea if you went double Dring though.
- Champions that are hard to gank and easy to gank, nyaaan, you know that stuff
- You are ok not great at doing dragon, explanation on when you can do it and stuff (generally after you get a kill with your ultimate and no one on your team is low on HP)
Teamfights:
- Initiate or follow up another initiate (also known as WOMBO COMBO)
- do that only if it's a good idea (you are strong enough to win the fight because you are awesome or because you have ze numbers advantage)
- If they jump on your first you can lock them down pretty sweet
- Hitting bandages is easy because enemies have other stuff to do than dodge your skillshots. Going after enemy carry is often a good idea.
- You can also use Bandage to peel for your carry but do that only if your carry is strong (otherwise it's a waste of time obviously)
- Throw Bandage and if you see it'll hit, use Shurelyas to make it easier for your team to follow up.
- You do decent amount of damage so that good. Autoattack them female canines for your passive, it's really not that special to teamfight as Amumu apart from using them Bandages well.
Good teammates and Mortal enemies:
WOMBO COMBO so Orianna, Malphite, Sona, Morgana (kinda) all works awesum. Karthus for similiar reasons. For laning phase if your middle lane has hard CC you can gank that lane sooo hard it's great. You want your backline to do a lot of damage so maybe go for Corki or Kog instead of Ashe or whatever your fetish may be.
Some people hate to play against Lee because "counterjungle boo", don't really have troubles with him. Hate Shaco but everyone hates Shaco so yeah. Janna is annoying, as is anyone else who will knock you away (alistar, jayce). Idk, I haven't identified other mortal enemies, anyone has any ideas?
Note:
Amumu is a viable jungler that's definitely pickable, just so everyone knows. He is really good, snuff him alongside kittens.
so that's it, did I forget/should I change anything?
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FoN much better than banshees wtf
unless you're a fag and didnt buy frozen heart so you have zero mana pool
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On November 03 2012 22:03 Slayer91 wrote:
FoN much better than banshees wtf
unless you're a fag and didnt buy frozen heart so you have zero mana pool
wow, manner
I mean Banshees and FoN should provide about the same? survivability because Banshees gives extra HP
So it's like, buy Banshees if they don't have much long range poke and/or you don't have any other flat mana items AND you need the MR. Otherwise go for FoN?
But isn't FH+FoN quite terrible because then your HP is quite low? I mean you get like 600 from Shurelyas+Aegis but that¨s still not close to ideal
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FoN is almost always better because it absorbs all poke gives you more speed and more magic resist all of which help you get the engage timing you want which is all that matters at that stage of the game. Blocking one spell is only useful if you're going to engage immidiately instead of QIng tanks and letting your team damage them to force a bad engage. Thats when you either force the tanks closer to their squishies and you engage or your ult split their team and you focus down their tanks.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
Alright I'll reccomend some FoN but I like Banshees better so they'll get their place in there as well. Anything else?
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On November 03 2012 21:49 Scip wrote:
If you have a hardon for Mitt Romney and went HoG
Fuck, I'm laughing right now. >.>
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You should also mention oracles, when to get it and when not. And Mobos. They are quite fun if you can afford to not get the tankiness from other boots. In Soloqueue they are very often superior to other boots, and i have seen them used in competative play, too. Mobo amumu ganks are terror, and you get a really good initiate with them, too.
Also, if you start red, you pretty much need a smiteless leash there, because if you go something like wraiths-red-blue that is about as long as your manapool lasts, not having smite up for blue would probably force you back due to hp loss if you do blue, and due to no mana if you do a longer route that waits for smite to come up again for blue.
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On November 03 2012 17:47 DURRHURRDERP wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 05:03 Liquid`NonY wrote:On November 03 2012 02:55 DURRHURRDERP wrote:
As someone who plays with Azingy on a pretty regular basis, I wouldn't recommend his build to starting Amumu players. He plays an extremely aggressive Amumu (and does it really early on), mixing up his jungle and gank paths depending on the situation.
If you're starting out on Amumu, definitely run the standard 2 gp10 build as it gives you the greatest versatility (even if you're not doing too great) come late game. This seems like the opposite of the proper conclusion. Ganking well with Amumu seems more difficult than team fighting and team fighting is going to happen anyway. So playing games without early aggression is just missing out on practicing early aggression. I can see how your suggestion would yield a better initial win rate but I don't see how it's a better way to start learning the champion. And since anyone who doesn't really desperately need to win wouldn't play a new champion in the first place, everyone is better off learning Amumu by playing an aggressive style. I mean it's not like he's the type of champion that has weird combos and mechanics to get comfortable with. Once someone gets pretty good at ganking with a build geared toward aggression, then they can do the much more difficult thing of going back and picking up a philo stone and accomplishing the same things as when they go back and pick up two rings. The problem is, Amumu isn't the greatest early game ganker. You're not gaining anything by playing Amumu aggressively early on that you wouldn't get from actual early game ganking junglers (you might as well play Lee Sin). Azingy plays a very weird + specific style and requires a lot of coordination from his team (definitely a lot for solo queue, even at high elo) and that is the main success of his playstyle. If you try running his style of play without the right coordination from your team it won't work; learning a safe/standard way of playing amumu (double gp10s) is a lot better for solo queue at lower elos.
If you're bot team and you get a leash on blue go EQ and camp top for a bit, it's pretty much exactly the same as what Lee Sin does from top side with red except you have a stun instead of a slow.
Amumu's early ganks aren't the very best in the game, but his level 2 gank can totally screw over top lane and landing a bandage from a bush is a great way to just win a lane for your teammate.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On November 03 2012 23:57 Simberto wrote:
You should also mention oracles, when to get it and when not. And Mobos. They are quite fun if you can afford to not get the tankiness from other boots. In Soloqueue they are very often superior to other boots, and i have seen them used in competative play, too. Mobo amumu ganks are terror, and you get a really good initiate with them, too.
Also, if you start red, you pretty much need a smiteless leash there, because if you go something like wraiths-red-blue that is about as long as your manapool lasts, not having smite up for blue would probably force you back due to hp loss if you do blue, and due to no mana if you do a longer route that waits for smite to come up again for blue.
Oh yeah forgot Oracles lol. I don't like them on Amumu at all but I'll mention where they are theoretically viable. You're right about smiteless leash on red, I'll add that. I don't like mobo boots but I guess I'll mention them. From what I've seen (which is very limited) people don't get them much on Amumu though?
Level2 ganks with blue buff amumu are ridiculously gimmicky. meh.
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United States47024 Posts
On November 04 2012 00:17 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
If you're bot team and you get a leash on blue go EQ and camp top for a bit, it's pretty much exactly the same as what Lee Sin does from top side with red except you have a stun instead of a slow.
Amumu's early ganks aren't the very best in the game, but his level 2 gank can totally screw over top lane and landing a bandage from a bush is a great way to just win a lane for your teammate.
I don't like that comparison because having EQ instead of EW at level 2 makes hitting 3 much harder off jungling so if that gank fails, you damage your tempo much harder than Lee does (who would have EQ at level 2 regardless of whether or not he's ganking). It's much more all-in for Amumu to EQ gank at level 2.
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On November 04 2012 00:17 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 17:47 DURRHURRDERP wrote:On November 03 2012 05:03 Liquid`NonY wrote:On November 03 2012 02:55 DURRHURRDERP wrote:
As someone who plays with Azingy on a pretty regular basis, I wouldn't recommend his build to starting Amumu players. He plays an extremely aggressive Amumu (and does it really early on), mixing up his jungle and gank paths depending on the situation.
If you're starting out on Amumu, definitely run the standard 2 gp10 build as it gives you the greatest versatility (even if you're not doing too great) come late game. This seems like the opposite of the proper conclusion. Ganking well with Amumu seems more difficult than team fighting and team fighting is going to happen anyway. So playing games without early aggression is just missing out on practicing early aggression. I can see how your suggestion would yield a better initial win rate but I don't see how it's a better way to start learning the champion. And since anyone who doesn't really desperately need to win wouldn't play a new champion in the first place, everyone is better off learning Amumu by playing an aggressive style. I mean it's not like he's the type of champion that has weird combos and mechanics to get comfortable with. Once someone gets pretty good at ganking with a build geared toward aggression, then they can do the much more difficult thing of going back and picking up a philo stone and accomplishing the same things as when they go back and pick up two rings. The problem is, Amumu isn't the greatest early game ganker. You're not gaining anything by playing Amumu aggressively early on that you wouldn't get from actual early game ganking junglers (you might as well play Lee Sin). Azingy plays a very weird + specific style and requires a lot of coordination from his team (definitely a lot for solo queue, even at high elo) and that is the main success of his playstyle. If you try running his style of play without the right coordination from your team it won't work; learning a safe/standard way of playing amumu (double gp10s) is a lot better for solo queue at lower elos. If you're bot team and you get a leash on blue go EQ and camp top for a bit, it's pretty much exactly the same as what Lee Sin does from top side with red except you have a stun instead of a slow. Amumu's early ganks aren't the very best in the game, but his level 2 gank can totally screw over top lane and landing a bandage from a bush is a great way to just win a lane for your teammate.
Except you risk not landing a kill pushing the lane and getting screwed by a levl 3/4 double buff gank and you actually did a bad thing coming top as well as slowing down your farm a lot
level 3 double buff ganks from purple side on top lane are much safer and high first blood percentage and usually the bot side goes red blue to counter that
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You risk that exact same thing with any gank/jungler, so just don't ever gank?
And you guys are severely overestimating how much damage level 1 w does to jungle creeps. You can level just fine by hitting wolf/wraith with just e as you come back, and if you miss your bandage, just walk out and wait for the cd to come back up without taking any xp/creeps. Same as if you missed Lee Q. In fact, Lee Q and Amumu Q travel at exactly the same speed.
Farming in the jungle is totally overrated in the current meta. Snowballing top lane in particular is the jungler's biggest priority.
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Doesn't work like that for other lanes and other times though. You can level 2 gank once and after that their jungler is level 3 or 4 with double buffs and you'll have to go all the way down to red and farm level 4 yourself and then go back and go all the way up to top, while their jungler can camp top all he likes in the meantime. Also top lane is guaranteed to have no wards and as such pushing in that situation I'd say is normally detrimental and unless you get FB or very damn near it's not worth it.
Even if your top laner knows their jungler will come he has to sit back and not cs with his "advantage" which he loses as soon as their laner back and buys a ward.
Ganks at level 5 and after give top laners chance to buy a ward or two meaning pushing the lane won't automatically be bad since you know when the jungler is comin which allows you to back off or set up a countergank/
Level 1 w does lots of damage to both blue and red allowing smiteless blue and red without taking too much damage. Pretty good.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
For the reasons that Teutonica oh-so-eloquently stated, I won't be including lvl2 bluebuff (or even lvl2 redbuff) gank into the guide. If you want to camp toplane as blue side, starting redbuff is a viable alternative. Or, if one disagrees with you that snowballing toplane is your main priority (like I do) you can focus on middle and bottom lane instead, which is easier from blue side.
If no one has anything else to say I'll write the guide first time tommorow morning.
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United States47024 Posts
On November 04 2012 08:15 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
And you guys are severely overestimating how much damage level 1 w does to jungle creeps.
Level 1 W actually lets your AoE damage clear Wolves/Wraiths between Tantrum CDs, rather than having to wait for Tantrum to actually cool down. That saves you 4-5 seconds even if the difference is only 1 Tantrum. And that doesn't include how much faster W level 2 is on a buff.
On November 04 2012 08:15 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Farming in the jungle is totally overrated in the current meta. Snowballing top lane in particular is the jungler's biggest priority.
I don't know how you drew this conclusion when for the most part in recent tournaments the campiest junglers have been the least successful ones, and the most successful ones have been the one that could successfully manage their farm with their ganking.
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Here's how I think about it:
The guides here are not meant for tournament players, who generally play tournaments with teams they practice with.
Level 2 gank is a tactic, not an absolute must do part of your jungle route.
If your level 2 gank is successful, you win top lane until their jungler gets a successful gank.
Saying "no you can't do that because it's bad" is just limiting your personal options. Keep an open mind.
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Like really your role as a jungler isn't to farm stuff, it's to support your lanes, and if you can force top lane to blow flash or get a kill at level 1 for them isn't it worth it to attempt it once in a while? I'm not saying it's always optimal but there's an obvious risk/reward calculation that's got a very high payoff for what, being 30 seconds behind on an arbitrary metric like clear speed?
[edit] Also maybe another big difference is that I run flat AP/mpen/armor/scaling AP so my level 2 ganks are actually a huge terror. [/edit]
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On November 04 2012 21:44 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Like really your role as a jungler isn't to farm stuff, it's to support your lanes, and if you can force top lane to blow flash or get a kill at level 1 for them isn't it worth it to attempt it once in a while? I'm not saying it's always optimal but there's an obvious risk/reward calculation that's got a very high payoff for what, being 30 seconds behind on an arbitrary metric like clear speed?
[edit] Also maybe another big difference is that I run flat AP/mpen/armor/scaling AP so my level 2 ganks are actually a huge terror. [/edit]
Your totaly right,and you can lessen the risk a bunch by doing what snooppeh was doing at mlg(3 gp10 items) I've been playing with it, its super nice you can roam a whole bunch more and your going to hit the mid-late game strong even if you got no good ganks off.
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The more you gank the better you get at ganking. Killing jungle camps doesn't really take practice, eh? Might as well gank everything and learn something.
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On November 04 2012 21:41 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Here's how I think about it:
The guides here are not meant for tournament players, who generally play tournaments with teams they practice with.
Level 2 gank is a tactic, not an absolute must do part of your jungle route.
If your level 2 gank is successful, you win top lane until their jungler gets a successful gank.
Saying "no you can't do that because it's bad" is just limiting your personal options. Keep an open mind.
The issue is it doesnt matter what level of player you are level 2 gank will have a very low kill rate, and a very high chance of improving their junglers sucess rate in the easiest, best and most common gank in all of LoL right now which is the double buff top lane gank from purple side. Whatever advantage you get there is often nullfied and reversed and the top lane might snowball the other way and suddenly you have to waste even more time to help top lane.
The level of play doesnt matter hughely, a good play is a good play, some plays are situational but the level 2 gank is situational at best and doesn't really need to be in the arsenal of any jungle amumu player.
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I'm semi-chuckling that, TL, where common sense is fairly high and the idea that nothing is set in stone are debating this that hard. Choosing your items and skill order on Amumu can be done on the fly. More damage vs gp5 and better ganks vs better farming. If it's purely a debate on what should be in the guide; I think the standard question of - why not both? - should apply. Beyond that, you should be smart enough to figure out what would benefit your team more.
For the very basics there can be a clear, definitive, and best way to do things. Once we're talking about above average understanding and ability then following a guide perfectly is only detrimental. Mummy is my best jungler and I mix it up between the more farm/tanky builds and the heavier damage/ganking routes. Do what your team needs... when did that change so much? It shouldn't be too hard to figure out what your team would benefit from more based upon your team comp and your opponents.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On November 05 2012 01:37 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
I'm semi-chuckling that, TL, where common sense is fairly high and the idea that nothing is set in stone are debating this that hard. Choosing your items and skill order on Amumu can be done on the fly. More damage vs gp5 and better ganks vs better farming. If it's purely a debate on what should be in the guide; I think the standard question of - why not both? - should apply. Beyond that, you should be smart enough to figure out what would benefit your team more.
For the very basics there can be a clear, definitive, and best way to do things. Once we're talking about above average understanding and ability then following a guide perfectly is only detrimental. Mummy is my best jungler and I mix it up between the more farm/tanky builds and the heavier damage/ganking routes. Do what your team needs... when did that change so much? It shouldn't be too hard to figure out what your team would benefit from more based upon your team comp and your opponents.
I have no idea who you are talking to.
What were discussing now if it is ever a good idea to lvl2 gank with blue buff.
Before we discussed when is it a good idea to build Drings and when if ever to build HoG, when to build FoN instead of Banshees. And no, it is absolutely not easy/simple to decide on the fly and no, it IS really hard to figure out what to do. That's what guides are for.
If it is that easy for you to decide what to do and what to build, please be so kind and contribute to the discussions.
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True. Deciding on the fly comes from lots and lots of games so you have a framework as to what would be best in this situation. The job of a guide is to allow you to skip some of those games by getting condensed knowledge from players who have already spent that time. Thus, if you say "you can build philo or 2 dorans", you should explain when you would want to build philo, and when you would want to build 2 dorans.
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On November 05 2012 01:43 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 01:37 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
I'm semi-chuckling that, TL, where common sense is fairly high and the idea that nothing is set in stone are debating this that hard. Choosing your items and skill order on Amumu can be done on the fly. More damage vs gp5 and better ganks vs better farming. If it's purely a debate on what should be in the guide; I think the standard question of - why not both? - should apply. Beyond that, you should be smart enough to figure out what would benefit your team more.
For the very basics there can be a clear, definitive, and best way to do things. Once we're talking about above average understanding and ability then following a guide perfectly is only detrimental. Mummy is my best jungler and I mix it up between the more farm/tanky builds and the heavier damage/ganking routes. Do what your team needs... when did that change so much? It shouldn't be too hard to figure out what your team would benefit from more based upon your team comp and your opponents. I have no idea who you are talking to. What were discussing now if it is ever a good idea to lvl2 gank with blue buff. Before we discussed when is it a good idea to build Drings and when if ever to build HoG, when to build FoN instead of Banshees. And no, it is absolutely not easy/simple to decide on the fly and no, it IS really hard to figure out what to do. That's what guides are for.
I'l elaborate - given the level of discourse this conversation has had and the general discourse on teamliquid, making a decision when I think it's fairly apparent there isn't a "correct" one seems silly to me. Everybody acknowledges the advantages/disadvantages to both sides of the build, and gank, and skill order. Put both in the guide, which you've already decided to do on one or two of the issues. No good guide should just say "level 2 gank now." Instead, if you have a laner who make it a guaranteed kill (major slow/root/stun) to start or follow up to your gank then that increases the likelihood that ganking is the proper path. Are your opponents more aggressive and pushing the lane early with some aoe champ like renekton or whatnot? Well, odds are he'll be more susceptible to a gank. If the answer was no, then stick to clearing as quickly as possible.
This is why higher-level guides and thinking are hard to put into a guide properly and why this debate is being had. It can be hard to make decisions on the fly, but it what has to be done to be successful. Thinking you can follow a specific path consistently (whether it's the builds or route) simply wont net you the success that adaptation will. Hell, somebody already made the point earlier (you or 5hit I think) about guides not being for top players, but rather more likely beginners. If you're fine with that, then you keep it simple and perhaps add a second section pointing out "advanced" ideas, but keeping them in the main body of the guide will only lead to confusion. You don't have to decide if something is the better play 60% of the time compared to its 40% counterpart, but whether it will be more helpful or detrimental to the beginners the guide is targeting by even suggesting it. That debate has less to do what what is right/proper/ideal for amumu, and more with what exactly the guide is for and who you expect will read it.
late edit: Just to add something else - I'm glad there is discussion about things when there is disagreement. It's why I still read this section. I just think when you're trying to craft a guide, you just need to decide what you're going for and not stray because I find it unlikely you'd ever be 100% satisfied with a finished product.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
Not everyone acknowledges advantages and disadvatages of certain decisions, so that's why we are having discussion in the first place and that's why a guide is something useful (if everyone was aware of everything, then surely guides would be unnecessary). What I argue (and I believe Slayer argues something to the similiar effect) that the level 2 gank is never a good idea to do, simply because of the massive amount of disadvantages it has. Firstly, if you don't achieve much, you lose about 40 seconds of blue buff, farm and presence around middle lane. Secondly, if it does mildly succeed (wasted flash+a lot of damage done) the lane is guaranteed to push and is therefore countered by the BY FAR most common purple jungle path which is wolves-blue-red and it is also countered by Wraiths-Red-Top from purple side, because of the extreme weakness of Amumu in early levels. Thirdly, it is also mildly countered by Wraiths-Red-Blue from purple side, because they are then able to take away your red buff or create an advantageous fight for them (4v3). And fourthly, it has a very small chance to succeed, no matter the top lane matchup.
Therefore I consider it never a good idea to do and will not include it in the guide. (edit: not only do I and Slayer consider it generally a very bad idea, I am pretty sure this gank is completely unheard of in tournament play)
There is a "correct" decision to be made in many many situations, especially when it comes to item builds. So we try to figure out what decisions in what circumstances are through, as you probably guessed, discussion. Because not everyone is aware of all the advantages and disadvantages of certain decisions. As I said.
As for this specific guide, I'd like to outline and explain the most successful and standard way to play Amumu, drawing most of the inspiration from tournament games but also high level ladder games, alongside some fringe builds that some very high level players succeeded with (Azingy being the prime example). What I do not wish to include is fringe builds and way to play Amumu that some mid and low level players "succeeded" with (difficult to measure the extent of success with no high ELO in either ranked5s, soloQ or tournaments accomplished).
Edit: but you did mention you have large amount of understanding about relations between teamcompositions and itembuilds, skill order and playstyle, so please do tell me what would you change in the rough draft of the guide I made.
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If you know someone doesnt have flash, it's possible to gank lv2, but I think 90% of junglers who know what they're doing would never take that risk. The lv3 double buff gank pushes lane, so generally after a failed gank you want to stay near top a bit to give your top vision or wait for the other jungler to come. The other jungler will either not come, which means he's either bad or he thinks it might be a trap, or do a few more camps and come at lv4 with double buffs. The latter you can deal with if the enemy top is chunked enough, the former means your top should win the lane because of the immense pressure early and no counterpressure. I think scip/slayers are generally on the more conservative side for jungling, valuing personal growth over pressure.
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Make sure to really hammer the point that bandage toss doesn't have to be used to initiate (probably excluding 5v5 unless you're catching people though). The minute shur's is acquired your ganks can become really strong by running straight from bush/behind/lane and you can save your toss until very, very late. The longer you wait also increases the likelihood that they panic and use flash or any escape ability while you still have toss up.
You mention the casting animation on E, and really make sure to hammer that point as well. I think it's one of the major flaws in amumus I see during teamfights. They try to chase and spam their E, but quickly find themselves out of range and now largely useless.
I personally prefer going Q over E leveling route whenever I think it's possible(similar to Azingy) but as it was also discussed, it is a much more advanced idea. If you fail gank or dont anticipate later counterganks it is hugely detrimental and unless you intend to really spend the time necessary to flesh out its pros/cons I honestly wouldn't include it in the guide because it certainly can cause more harm than good. Since you're the one spending the time, just decide if you want to include those types of ideas or just include the basics with some tips. This question then leads into the items. I think if you're going to advocate aggression (multiple drings, abyssal/sunfire etc) at all, do so in a completely separate area of the guide after the more standard farming routes/items. Offering up 2 largely contrary opinions/builds next to each other would do nothing but seem contradictory to the reader. Properly fleshing out when 1 build might be more viable than another(especially since you already have a strong preference in the matter) is next to impossible unless you intend to write a 6000 word essay about team comps (friendly and opposing).
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
sounds like reasonable ideas, sure. Anything else? I guess I'll write the guide here after it is done for grammar check.
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On November 05 2012 02:58 Scip wrote:
sounds like reasonable ideas, sure. Anything else? I guess I'll write the guide here after it is done for grammar check.
If I get off work early tonight I might start typing up something for what team comps Amumu would be best in and with what team comps you need what items with (obviously can't cover every base, but a few of the important ones). Whether I get around to it or not, I think it should be a staple in your guide though.
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Not sure what you mean by chase and not spamming E, with 0/21/9 and mspd quints you're faster than any laner in the game, your E is most of your damage next to Q, you can animation cancel but it's really not needed, there's never been a time when I didn't E during a gank when I could because I thought I would fall behind unless I was saving mana for something.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On November 05 2012 03:02 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Not sure what you mean by chase and not spamming E, with 0/21/9 and mspd quints you're faster than any laner in the game, your E is most of your damage next to Q, you can animation cancel but it's really not needed, there's never been a time when I didn't E during a gank when I could because I thought I would fall behind unless I was saving mana for something.
Happens really only when you have red buff, autoattacking+Eing right after might slow you down too much. With red you might want to only autoattack sometimes to secure the kill.
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On November 05 2012 03:02 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Not sure what you mean by chase and not spamming E, with 0/21/9 and mspd quints you're faster than any laner in the game, your E is most of your damage next to Q, you can animation cancel but it's really not needed, there's never been a time when I didn't E during a gank when I could because I thought I would fall behind unless I was saving mana for something.
In my experience, the number of extra E's you land in a team fight is largely irrelevant when compared to sticking right on top of the carry you're going to try to bandage toss when it's off of cd. That 2nd stun should be your priority, not an extra 150 damage. That's obviously not saying to not use E, but more of be careful with its use as in his shell I think it said "Mash that E button in teamfights."
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On November 05 2012 03:10 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 03:02 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Not sure what you mean by chase and not spamming E, with 0/21/9 and mspd quints you're faster than any laner in the game, your E is most of your damage next to Q, you can animation cancel but it's really not needed, there's never been a time when I didn't E during a gank when I could because I thought I would fall behind unless I was saving mana for something. In my experience, the number of extra E's you land in a team fight is largely irrelevant when compared to sticking right on top of the carry you're going to try to bandage toss when it's off of cd. That 2nd stun should be your priority, not an extra 150 damage. That's obviously not saying to not use E, but more of be careful with its use as in his shell I think it said "Mash that E button in teamfights."
You don't always stick to the other carry in team fights, and regardless there's 0 reason not to mash E in team fights unless for mana problems.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
Should I make new thread for Amumu then? All the discussion here is outdated anway except for the last 2 pages, which will be indirectly included in the OP anyway
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United States47024 Posts
On November 05 2012 03:02 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Not sure what you mean by chase and not spamming E, with 0/21/9 and mspd quints you're faster than any laner in the game, your E is most of your damage next to Q, you can animation cancel but it's really not needed, there's never been a time when I didn't E during a gank when I could because I thought I would fall behind unless I was saving mana for something.
There are actually 320/325 base MS laners who will be faster than you with 0/21/9 because Amumu only has 310 base MS.
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DURRHURRDERP (12:58): yo
just to make sure
u max E on amumu 1st right
?
and Q 2nd?
Azingy (1:02): yea
gg
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On November 05 2012 06:03 DURRHURRDERP wrote:
DURRHURRDERP (12:58): yo
just to make sure
u max E on amumu 1st right
?
and Q 2nd?
Azingy (1:02): yea
gg
Well, then no known pro-player or top soloQ player maxes Q first, I'd say it's at the very least "completely unconfirmed to be good". And at the worst it is genuinely terrible.
I took your word for it that Azingy maxes Q guys, zzzz. Don't make me double check everything you say.
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i_love_bacon plz link to account
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You can max either second or even do a mix. It's really situational which ends up being more useful, but the standard is E>W>Q.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On November 05 2012 13:02 Craton wrote:
You can max either second or even do a mix. It's really situational which ends up being more useful, but the standard is E>W>Q.
No, it is not. Standard is E>Q>W for the cooldown reduction on Q.
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On November 05 2012 06:03 DURRHURRDERP wrote:
DURRHURRDERP (12:58): yo
just to make sure
u max E on amumu 1st right
?
and Q 2nd?
Azingy (1:02): yea
gg
This is surprising to me. I used to max E first, then I stopped doing it, opting for more aggression by maxing Q first and leaving E at rank 2. I actually feel going W E E Q Q R then R > Q > W > E is better.
Maybe it's just that my opponents are terrible.
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Wtf how are you guys even seriously debating writing a guide when you tell people stuff like "don't autoattack with mumu" and "level 2 gank is NEVER a good idea"
also afaik azingy's been evolving his amumu over time because i know i've seen him max q before
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On November 05 2012 18:51 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Wtf how are you guys even seriously debating writing a guide when you tell people stuff like "don't autoattack with mumu" and "level 2 gank is NEVER a good idea"
also afaik azingy's been evolving his amumu over time because i know i've seen him max q before
I can't remember the last time I've seen a level 2 gank that wasn't part of some kind of invade and roam support/2v1 lane that ended up as a 3 man surprise gank. Everytime my jungle level 2 ganks when I'm top it just pisses me off because he wastes time and checks off one gank top in his head and puts me in a worse position than I was (top lane vs purple side sucks).
And I don't know what you're talking about with autoattacks but amumus passive is really good but if you dont have red buff auto attacks might let them get away out of range of your e sometimes just walking with them with w up and waiting for e and q is more damage.
You argument for why it's good seems to be "it snowballs top lane" when the whole problem is their jungler is coming with red buff and and extra level or two within 30 seconds or something and the chances of getting a kill with level 2 gank are so low as it is while the chances of getting a kill with red buff on a pushed lane are very high I can't even see the argument.
If you're talking about a level 2 gank with say. maokai with W and Q and something high damage top like udyr vs a champion like singed who starts ghost and is hard to gank later, sure but the average top laner with mumu? Hell if you don't land Q you can't even do anything.
Level 3 and 4 ganks with red buff risk so much less and greatly increase the chance of a kill if you land Q (at the very least a flash) without leaving your lane stranded without wards vs a jungler nearby for the next 4 minutes or something. Heck even doing red buff without w is a bitch let alone when their jungler knows exactly where you were and that you leveled q meaning he either tries to kill you are your red or counter camps top lane neither of which you can do a whole lot about. (depends on your team and warding for the red buff thing)
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Amumu bandage toss travels at exactly the same speed as lee sin q so wtf is the argument there? You can gank from behind without pushing a wave or taking xp by just walking up to hit them with auto/e then q when it's point blank and you can't miss. Doing this also zones them off of the creeps, and if you time it right you'll actually deny them xp.
I'm just saying that maybe it's a worthwhile tactic sometimes. My Amumu win rate is 65% in solo queue and he's my second most-played champ. Although I don't think this makes me better than anyone else at Amumu or that it makes me right, it gives me a little face validity here on an arbitrary metric. In general, your strategy as Amumu is to farm and camp the solo lanes until 6 then go bot lane on ult CDs to gank and take dragons. Being able to gank top lane at 2 without significantly pushing the wave or taking xp is a huge addition to your arsenal that you'd be stupid to limit yourself from doing on a theorycrafted basis of "it sounds bad."
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On November 05 2012 19:51 Slayer91 wrote:
I can't remember the last time I've seen a level 2 gank that wasn't part of some kind of invade and roam support/2v1 lane that ended up as a 3 man surprise gank. Everytime my jungle level 2 ganks when I'm top it just pisses me off because he wastes time and checks off one gank top in his head and puts me in a worse position than I was (top lane vs purple side sucks).
I don't really think "people at my skill level are shitty and piss me off" is a good argument against my point.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
The difference between Amumu lvl 2 gank and Lee Sin lvl 2 gank is that Lee Sin ganks top lane from Purple side and has Red buff and more damage. Still, I haven't seen Red-Top in a tournament game in ages iirc. Usually when you do that you laneswap and give your blue to sololaner so yeah, that's a bit different situation.
I am sorry if this is insulting, but it sounds like haven't read the vast amount of problems this gank has that I listed here:
On November 05 2012 02:19 Scip wrote:
Firstly, if you don't achieve much, you lose about 40 seconds of blue buff, farm and presence around middle lane. Secondly, if it does mildly succeed (wasted flash+a lot of damage done) the lane is guaranteed to push and is therefore countered by the BY FAR most common purple jungle path which is wolves-blue-red and it is also countered by Wraiths-Red-Top from purple side, because of the extreme weakness of Amumu in early levels. Thirdly, it is also mildly countered by Wraiths-Red-Blue from purple side, because they are then able to take away your red buff or create an advantageous fight for them (4v3). And fourthly, it has a very small chance to succeed, no matter the top lane matchup.
Or at the very least, you haven't bothered to explain why these above mentioned problems aren't as problematic as they seem at first (which is very) nor have you outlined circumstances where it is indeed a good idea to do (saying it's a good idea "sometimes", but not explaining when "sometimes" is).
Anyway I am writing the guide atm I'll post it here when it's finished for grammar check. sounds cool?
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On November 05 2012 20:22 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 19:51 Slayer91 wrote:
I can't remember the last time I've seen a level 2 gank that wasn't part of some kind of invade and roam support/2v1 lane that ended up as a 3 man surprise gank. Everytime my jungle level 2 ganks when I'm top it just pisses me off because he wastes time and checks off one gank top in his head and puts me in a worse position than I was (top lane vs purple side sucks). I don't really think "people at my skill level are shitty and piss me off" is a good argument against my point.
I'm talking tournaments, you think people lane swap in solo queue lol
Lee sins don't level 2 blue gank either, they start red and level 3 gank/countergank top. They also tend to W and E before trying to land Q, since trying to land skillshots that will make/break your gank is a messy business.
Even denying him last hits will cause the lane to push, which means your laner will likely be denied when you leave.
Just feels like the cons outweigh the benefits massively.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
About Amumu:
Amumu is a strong jungler picked semi-regularly in tournament games (post-S2 championship finals). His main strength is his teamfight, doing tons of damage and having massive CC. In the early game he can offer strong ganks, especially in middle lane. Amumu is considered weak to counterjungling, but usually he can manage.
Amumu has particularly good synergy with other AoE heavy champions like Orianna, Malphite, Zyra and Karthus, combined with them doing the Wombo Combo, locking down doing massive damage to several champions at once. Because of his slight weakness to counterjungling, you should consider other picks when something like jungle Nunu is on the enemy team. Even then he can be the best pick though, depending on your team composition.
Skills:
Passive: Cursed Touch
(Innate) Amumu's autoattacks reduce the target's magic resistance by 15 / 25 / 35 for 3 seconds. The debuff doesn't stack but it refreshes with every autoattack.
A decent passive, though quite uninteresting. Another good reason to autoattack people in teamfights and ganks. When killing small golems, you should autoattack the small golem once to increase your damage against him.
Q Skill: Bandage Toss
(Active) Amumu tosses a sticky bandage in a straight line. If it contacts an enemy, Amumu will pull himself to it, dealing magic damage and stunning the target for 1 second.
Cost: Cost: 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 / 120 mana, Cooldown: 16 / 14 / 12 / 10 / 8 seconds, Magic Damage: 80 / 140 / 200 / 260 / 320 (+0.7 per ability power)
Range: 1,100, Projectile speed: 1800
for ganking, fighting, and hopping over walls in the jungle if you don't need the mana for whatever reason. You can use this skill to initiate teamfights, just hit an important target and ultimate. During a teamfight, use this skill to stick to and stun an important target, usually the enemy AD or AP carry. When your carries are significantly stronger than theirs, you can use this skill to peel for them.
When ganking, you can either shoot this skill from the fog of war (from a brush or from behind a wall) or you have to get in a position where hitting this skill is guaranteed/almost guaranteed. Try to walk up to your target from side or from behind before shooting, dodging from very short range is impossible without flash. Nothing ruins ganks more than a premature shot that ends up missing.
W Skill: Despair
(Toggle) While toggled on, Amumu will be surrounded by a small damaging area of tears. Enemies in the area will be dealt a percentage of their maximum health plus a base amount as magic damage each second.
Cost: 8 mana per second, Cooldown: 1 second, Base Magic Damage: 8 / 12 / 16 / 20 / 24, Max Health to Damage Ratio: 1.5 / 1.8 / 2.1 / 2.4 / 2.7% (+1% per 100 ability power)
Radius of AoE: 300
A nice damage skill. Turn this on when killing jungle creeps or enemy champions, unless you want to conserve your mana. It is not very mana expensive at all though. Not much to add, very straightforward skill.
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/x2FvM.png)
E Skill: Tantrum
(Passive) Amumu takes reduced physical damage from autoattacks and abilities.
Physical Damage Reduction: 2 / 4 / 6 / 8 / 10
(Active) Amumu will make an instantaneous tantrum, dealing magic damage to surrounding units. Additionally, each time Amumu is hit by an autoattack the cooldown on Tantrum's active will be reduced by 0.5 seconds.
Cost: 35 mana, Cooldown: 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 / 6 seconds, Magic Damage: 75 / 100 / 125 / 150 / 175 (+0.5 per ability power)
Radius of AoE: 200
A great damage/sustain skill. The passive significantly decreases the damage you take from both jungle creeps and lane creeps when ganking. The active is your primary way of jungling and also a very nice damage skill in general.
When jungling, just use this skill whenever off cooldown. When killing buffs, pull the big creep a little bit, so that the small guys aren't hit with your Tantrums, it will speed up killing the buff quite a lot.
When ganking, remember that this skill has a short casting animation, so you might want to delay using this skill in favour of autoattacking with red buff, though that is usually not the case. Also remember that you take no damage from lane creeps at higher levels, so try to aggro them to increase your damage output.
When fighting, you generally want to mash your E button to maximize your damage output, unless you want to conserve mana for Bandage Toss and/or ultimate.
R Skill: Curse of the Sad Mummy
(Active): Amumu entangles surrounding enemy units, dealing magic damage and rendering them unable to move or use autoattacks for 2 seconds.
Cost: 100 / 150 / 200 mana, Cooldown: 150 / 130 / 110 seconds, Magic Damage: 150 / 250 / 350 (+0.8 per ability power)
Radius of AoE: 600
A brilliant ganking and fighting skill. After aquiring this skill, you should generally look for a gank, best in middle or bottom lane. When ganking, try to use this skill before you use Bandage Toss, in order to guarantee the hit on your Q. Use your Q first only if you can't get close enough to cast your ultimate.
In fights, this skill is best used to initiate. Use your Q to close distance and lock down an important target, then ultimate to lock down most of their team. This is especially effective if your team has AoE ultimates of their own, most notably Orianna and Malphite, creating an AoE rape known as "WOMBO COMBO".
If the enemy team is the one to jump on your first, walk/Q/flash in a position to hit as many people as you can.
Masteries:
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/LEnri.png)
0/21/9 are really the only viable masteries on Amumu. The extra tankiness, reduced damage from jungle creeps, cooldown reduction and movement speed are more useful than anything else you can get in any other tree. The 9 in utility are mostly for the buff duration, which is very valuable if only for the first few levels.
Runes:
Marks: Armor or Magic Penetration
Seals: Armor
Glyphs: MRes, Mres per level, flat Cooldown Reduction, flat AP
Quintessences: Movement Speed
For Marks, Armor is especially useful early game, negating a lot of damage from jungle creeps. Magic Penetration is used by some to improve your combat strength in later levels a little bit, but remember it is at the cost of first jungle clear and sustain in jungle.
Armor Seals are absolutely necessary for jungling, as they reduce the damage from jungle creeps.
There are many options for Glyphs. Flat AP speeds up your jungling a bit, both early and midgame. Flat Cooldown Reduction speeds up your jungling a little less, but more significantly it shortens the extremely long cooldown on your ultimate, allowing for more strong ganks. Magic Resistance or Magic Resistance per level do not help with jungling at all, but they can still be used if you will take large amount of magic damage throughout the game (specifically when enemy team runs double AP).
Movement Speed Quintessences speed up your jungle significantly and increase your combat strength a great amount. Do not underestimate the power of post-mortem jogging.
Skill Order:
The only (known) skill order used by pro players is
WEQEER R>E>Q>W
The reasoning is simple. 1 level in W speeds up jungle significantly, especially buffs, so it is taken very early. E is the best skill to max for both killing jungle creeps fast and taking less damage from them. One level in Q is essential for ganking for the gapcloser and stun.
After maxing E, Q is maxed second in order to reduce its cooldown. In teamfights, the ability to stun and jump twice as often is way more valuable than the minute difference in damage from W, so W is maxed last.
Item Build:
Boots+3 are the starting items for obvious reasons: faster jungling, better ganks and sustain from pots. The standard build is as follows.
Philosopher's Stone is the first item built, the HP and mana regen are important for staying in jungle without having to back too often. It also builds into Shurelya's Reverie, which is one of your core items. The gold per 10 is a small bonus added on top of an already great item.
The standard Amumu core build is Shurelya's Reverie, Aegis of Legion and Boots2.
Boots are usually either Mercury Treads or Ninja Tabi depending on how much CC and physical/magical damage enemy team has. Though Sorcerer's shoes are useable for slightly more fighting strength in smaller fights, they are generally not recommended. Mobility boots generally don't help Amumu's ganks enough to justify them. Without an escape skill, Amumu needs all the fighting strength he can get.
In what order to finish your core items is up to debate. Aegis of the Legion gives you the most fighting strength for the least cost, Boots2 speed up your jungling and help your ganks a little bit, Shurelya's Reverie allows you to initiate teamfights and ganks even better. Generally, build Shurelya's first if they are necessary for your team to follow up your initiate effectively. Otherwise, Aegis+boots2 first are better.
Three items outside of your core that can be built after Philosopher's Stone are Heart of Gold, Doran's Shield and Doran's Ring. All of these items delay your core items quite a bit. Heart of Gold allows you to get Randuin's Omen after you finish your core much faster, but it does weaken your early and midgame in the process. Doran's Ring and Doran's Shield both make you significantly stronger early and midgame, but delaying core items is often not worth it. Doran's Ring gives extra manaregen so that you save on manapots, Doran's Shield is particularly good when you want to towerdive some. However, sticking to your core build is a fine choice in all circumstances.
After your core items there are quite a few options.
For extra armor, Frozen Heart or Randuin's Omen are both a fine choice. Randuin's offers more survivability and an amazing active to follow up your ultimate and is generally the preffered choice. However, Frozen Heart aura and Cooldown Reduction are both more useful in spread out, messy teamfights. So if you expect large amount of kiting from both teams, Frozen Heart is better. However, do not get FH if you already have one on your team, that is a bit of a waste.
For magic resistance, a Negatron Cloak a the most cost efficient choice. The items it builds into are better bought when you run out of itemslots. Banshee's Veil is stronger in simple, cluster-y teamfights that are decisively initiated, so that the spellshield can block a meaningful spell. Force of Nature is better when there is a lot of poking and kiting going on, that is when the HP regen and movement speed are the most helpful. Abyssal Scepter is good when you can spare little bit of gold on damage and you have a lot of magic damage on your team, like Karthus or Katarina.
As for pots, Wards and Oracles. HP pots are a necessity in the first jungle clear and a good buy for the 2nd one. After you get Philostone they should be unneeded. Mana pots are a very good buy throughout the early game. They should be used in case of emergency, when you are low on mana but a fight breaks out or an opportunity presents itself. Buy them in advance then. Wards are great and should be bought throughout the game. Place them to scout for ganks and enemy jungler position. The most vision you have on a map, the safer ganking and farming is.
Because Amumu doesn't have an escape, Oracles shouldn't be bought early. Early game, pink Wards should suffice. Later in the game however, after finishing an item or 2, if everyone but you has a habit of dying or you want to attract some extra attention, Oracles is a good buy.
A very specific item build has been popularized by Azingy and it goes like this.
The first 2 items after Boots of Speed are 2 Doran's Rings, followed by Sorcerer's Shoes. This gives you great fighting strength and extremely fast jungle clear. Azingy then build Abyssal Scepter and Sunfire Cape in whatever order, presumably to deal even more damage. However, it should be noted that this itembuilds requires specific teamcomps and great amount of coordination with teammates, and knowledge of both seems to be exclusive to Azingy's head. Rest of the guide shall assume that you are going the tried-and-true standard itembuild.
Jungling:
The most standard jungle path for both sides is Wolves-Blue-Red. Amumu has very good ganks middle lane thanks to a 1100 range gapcloser, so staying close to mid is generally a good idea. For blue side specifically, Wraiths-Red-Blue is a viable path to countergank the expected gank toplane at that time. However, you will need a smiteless leash on red buff to do that.
After killing your buffs, most of your time will be spent clearing small jungle camps. Pushed lanes are good places to gank, so you can try to walk in and get a kill. Make sure to check where wards are though, walking into lane just to be seen from a mile away will likely just slow down your farm.
After you hit level6 (standard benchmark here is about 8 minutes, maybe slightly after) your ganks get way stronger. You should seek gank opportunities more aggressively, so at this point don't get mad at middle lane for taking your Wraiths. If you get a kill in middle or bottom lane and are level5+, you can often take Dragon uncontested.
Ganking:
As mentioned above, there are usually 2 different ways to gank before you get your ultimate.
First and most common option is to just walk into a lane from side or behind, get close to the enemy and when they are too close to dodge, shoot your Bandage Toss. If your lanemate has a stun, you can cut all the walking close parts and just jump in after the enemy has been stunned.
The other option is to throw bandage toss from a brush or from behind a wall to hit an unsuspecting enemy. This can only rarely be pulled off though, since getting unseen into brushes that people are close to is no small challange.
In ganks you should turn on your W and mash your E and autoattack for maximum damage.
Because of Amumu's low fighting strength and no escape skills, you are vulnerable to counterganking. Preferably make sure that enemy jungler isn't close or that you can burst down the enemy laner in time. Otherwise it is a risk, often worth taking, but still a risk.
After you get your ultimate, the run-close gank gets even stronger, since you can guarantee your Bandage Toss will hit by using your ultimate first, for a total 3 seconds of hard CC. Bandaging in gets significantly stronger as well, simply for the extra damage and CC. When you ultimate is up, you can also countergank extremely well by bandaging in from 1100 range and hitting ultimate on all people present.
Dealing with counterjungle:
The most common place to be counterjungled is your red buff. The enemy jungler can do his blue buff and then run straight to your red. If that happens, you will probably need your laners to come help. Buy time for them by damaging the enemy jungler a bit, attack him and E him when he's attacking the buff, run away when he turns to attack you. Hopefully your teammates arrive in time, if not, you will be forced to try smitesteal.
Bigger problem is if enemy jungler started at your red buff. Have your support or solo laner (depending on what side you are) check your red buff at about 1:56 to see if they are starting there. If they are, tell your middle lane and the lane closer to their red buff push. After finishing your blue go straight to their red, the enemy jungler won't be there in time or you will have a much better position.
If the enemy jungler is just stealing your small camps randomly, there isn't much you can do early on. Try to take your camps, especially your Wraiths, right after they spawn. Taking your small creeps slows down the enemy jungler as well, since they are far away from his own jungle, so you aren't as behind as you might think.
Teamfight:
Again, as has been mentioned above, your role in teamfight is usually to initiate by Qing in onto an (important) enemy and pressing R to lock them down. Initiate when your teammates will be able to follow up, so they need to be close enough. Do not initiate teamfights when you know or it is likely that the enemy will win, either because they have the numbers advantage or have a large gold advantage.
If the enemy initiates on your, use your Q and flash to position quickly and hit your ultimate on as many people as you can. Do not delay your ultimate too much though - CCing the enemy isn't very useful when only you and the support are still alive.
After you use your ultimate, use your Q to stick to an important target like AD or AP carry. Mash E button and autoattack to do damage. Amumu is a very strong teamfight champion, so this is your time to shine.
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ALRIGHT DID I MISS ANYTHING
also grammar check please and general coherence check if you guys would be so kind, I wrote the last half or so some time after the first so it may be disconnected a little bit. Seems alright-ish on the first glance.
Once I get a few grammar + late quality checks it's gonne be finished. Should I make a new thread or make Wave substitute his OP for my own?
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lol@ 'make Wave'
At this point, it really makes more sense to just make your own thread and have Neo close this one. You have my blessing and my permission, good sir (not that you need it, considering how horribly out-of-date mine is and also the fact that you have like 3k elo on me).
Oh for formatting and whatnot, if you want you can use my pretty pictures as well.
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Things i noticed: The first part obviously needs formatting, as you are probably aware. You might consider making the headlines bold or underlined in general for better readability.
You could also consider adding a small paragraph about how to react to getting invaded, as people especially at lower elos love to invade amumu, so beginner amumu players will have to deal with it a lot.
Spelling errors i noticed marked in bold:
Jungling:
The most standard jungle path for both sides is Wolves-Blue-Red. Amumu has very good ganks in middle lane thanks to a 1100 range gapcloser, so staying close to mid is generally a good idea. For blue side specifically, Wraiths-Red-Blue is a viable path to countergank the expected gank toplane at that time. However, you will need a smiteless leash on red buff to do that.
After killing your buffs, most of your time will be spent clearing small jungle camps. Pushed lanes are good places to gank, so you can try to walk in and get a kill. Make sure to check where wards are though, walking into lane just to be seen from a mile away will likely just slow down your farm.
After you hit level6 (standard benchmark here is about 8 minutes, maybe slightly after) your ganks get way stronger. You should seek gank opportunities more aggresively, so at this point don't get mad at middle lane for taking your Wraiths. If you get a kill in middle or bottom lane and are level5+, you can often take Dragon uncontested.
Ganking:
As mentioned above, there are usually 2 different ways to gank before you get your ultimate.
First and most common option is to just walk into a lane from side or behind, get close to the enemy and when they are too close to dodge, shoot your Bandage Toss. If your lanemate has a stun, you can cut all the walking close parts and just jump in after the enemy has been stunned.
The other option is to throw bandage toss from a brush or from behind a wall to hit an unsuspecting enemy. This can only rarely be pulled off though, since getting unseen into brushes that people are close to is no small challange.
In ganks you should turn on your W and mash your E and autoattack for maximum damage.
Because of Amumu's low fighting strenght and no escape skills, you are vulnarable to counterganking. Preferably make sure that enemy jungler isn't close or that you can burst down the enemy laner in time. Otherwise it is a risk, often worth taking, but still a risk.
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Ganking you should walk up from behind and auto/e/w them before trying to q in certain spots, a lot of the time it's bad to blow a q to gapclose in the opposite direction because they can just flash out (instead of being able to q and catch them after they flash) and getting an auto/applying your passive makes a big difference in damage output at early levels where things like gank damage are relevant.
You can take E first if you're going to be in a fight level 1 or if you have to take wraiths at level 1 because they successfully invaded your blue, I think it's terrible to say "only known skill order" because that's just limiting yourself, e clears small camps faster (especially wraiths).
You should also talk about pulling the buffs out so that the small lizards don't get hit by your e but still damage you for the cdr reset.
Glyphs you want scaling ap not flat, if you're gonna take flat take them on quints.
Most pros have been building Amumu with sorc shoes lately (see snoopeh in recent MLG) but nobody reading this guide is going to be a pro.
HoG is usually pretty standard on Amumu as well, you can omit it if you like but I think it's worth mentioning since like 90% of the time it's good for you, seeing as you're a gank-dependent champion and you won't be farming quite as much.
As far as negatron goes it's also quite useful as an Abyssal Scepter because it stacks with your passive and sorc shoes if you get them, that's not just something azingy does because he's azingy, it's actually pretty standard.
You should probably mention that you should only buy a pink ward if you're going to force/sneak a dragon because buying pink wards in general on Amumu is terrible.
Probably add the best non-smiteless no-gank path, the best path if you're not ganking until 4 and not taking a smiteless blue is wolves -> blue -> wraiths -> wolves -> red -> wraiths -> evaluate with doublebuffs and level 4.
I think it's generally really bad to ult before q in ganks because stunning them while they're rooted is just a waste and you'll miss ults sometimes if they just happen to flash, just get better at aiming/hitting q because if they flash that big deal, you traded an 8-16 sec cd for a ~3 min cd.
Otherwise just grammar "CCing the enemy isn't very useful when only you are support are still alive." etc
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On November 05 2012 21:51 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 20:22 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On November 05 2012 19:51 Slayer91 wrote:
I can't remember the last time I've seen a level 2 gank that wasn't part of some kind of invade and roam support/2v1 lane that ended up as a 3 man surprise gank. Everytime my jungle level 2 ganks when I'm top it just pisses me off because he wastes time and checks off one gank top in his head and puts me in a worse position than I was (top lane vs purple side sucks). I don't really think "people at my skill level are shitty and piss me off" is a good argument against my point. I'm talking tournaments, you think people lane swap in solo queue lol Lee sins don't level 2 blue gank either, they start red and level 3 gank/countergank top. They also tend to W and E before trying to land Q, since trying to land skillshots that will make/break your gank is a messy business. Even denying him last hits will cause the lane to push, which means your laner will likely be denied when you leave. Just feels like the cons outweigh the benefits massively.
A) Okay, so I quoted a bit extra, obviously I didn't say anything about that, but
B) Yes, people lane swap in solo queue, it happens above 1700 quite often. I've tanked low as fuck and I'm in 16xx right now but it happens from time to time in my ranked games and quite often in my normals, too.
C) Lee Sin level 2 red ganks, if you're really too dumb to grasp the analogy I'm making then I'm seriously wasting my time
D) Just because you're bad at skillshots doesn't mean you have to be bad at skillshots and push the wave/take xp as well, you can be bad at skillshots and not take any xp/not push wave.
E) What the fuck are you talking about if that was the case then not last hitting on the first wave would be OP and would cause everyone to be denied from that point on, just get better at last hitting and it won't push the wave.
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I think you guys miss the point here, a lot of the time the idea behind ganking isn't to get a kill, it's to put pressure on your opponent so they can't farm and have to play scared, to damage them so your laner can zone them with all-in threats, to blow flashes so they can't play aggressively, and to let your laner get a slight advantage which they can snowball themselves. Ganking isn't about killing people, that's just best-case scenario.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
Alright, noted what Simberto said going to fix it asap
On November 06 2012 01:08 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Ganking you should walk up from behind and auto/e/w them before trying to q in certain spots, a lot of the time it's bad to blow a q to gapclose in the opposite direction because they can just flash out (instead of being able to q and catch them after they flash) and getting an auto/applying your passive makes a big difference in damage output at early levels where things like gank damage are relevant.
You can take E first if you're going to be in a fight level 1 or if you have to take wraiths at level 1 because they successfully invaded your blue, I think it's terrible to say "only known skill order" because that's just limiting yourself, e clears small camps faster (especially wraiths).
You should also talk about pulling the buffs out so that the small lizards don't get hit by your e but still damage you for the cdr reset.
Glyphs you want scaling ap not flat, if you're gonna take flat take them on quints.
Most pros have been building Amumu with sorc shoes lately (see snoopeh in recent MLG) but nobody reading this guide is going to be a pro.
HoG is usually pretty standard on Amumu as well, you can omit it if you like but I think it's worth mentioning since like 90% of the time it's good for you, seeing as you're a gank-dependent champion and you won't be farming quite as much.
As far as negatron goes it's also quite useful as an Abyssal Scepter because it stacks with your passive and sorc shoes if you get them, that's not just something azingy does because he's azingy, it's actually pretty standard.
You should probably mention that you should only buy a pink ward if you're going to force/sneak a dragon because buying pink wards in general on Amumu is terrible.
Probably add the best non-smiteless no-gank path, the best path if you're not ganking until 4 and not taking a smiteless blue is wolves -> blue -> wraiths -> wolves -> red -> wraiths -> evaluate with doublebuffs and level 4.
I think it's generally really bad to ult before q in ganks because stunning them while they're rooted is just a waste and you'll miss ults sometimes if they just happen to flash, just get better at aiming/hitting q because if they flash that big deal, you traded an 8-16 sec cd for a ~3 min cd.
Otherwise just grammar "CCing the enemy isn't very useful when only you are support are still alive." etc
responding in same order as your paragraphs are
ok Ill rewrite the gank section to make it clear that's what I mean
meh if they successfully steal your blue buff you want red buff first anyway which is way easier to do with W also at that point you are unlikely to get smiteless leash so doing red faster is more important that doing wraiths faster
pretty sure I mentioned the buff pull in the guide gonna check it sec
movement speed quints are awesome and unrelated to what glyphs you take. flat AP makes your jungle faster, scaling AP doesnt.
Ok I'll check mlg VoDs to see that but I'm 99% sure that when he did that he went for DFG which is not viable anymore for obvious reasons
WHOOPS forgot HoG. adding.
I am pretty sure Abyssal is nowhere near standard. any idea who builds it to check?
buying pink wards on amumu is generally about as good as buying pink wards on any other jungler i. e. pretty good. enemy wraiths when you are purple side, bottom tribush if you are blue side, etc. it's a great idea often enough to be mentioned.
wolves -> blue -> wraiths -> wolves -> red -> wraiths -> evaluate isn't good at all from what I know because it puts very little pressure on middle lane because any trip towards middle lane will delay your red even more and even then you won't have red buff if an opportunity presents itself. it delays your 2nd red buff and it is a bit dangerous if enemy gets any funny ideas. It's generally outclassed by wolves-blue-red-wraiths for these reasons
no using ultimate before Q is not bad, what? it's like the most standard thing ever, you can stun them just before they come out of the root your teammate should be on them already anyway so the damage department should be just fine. "get better at hitting Q" doesn't mean anything you can aim it better than god but it will still miss 100% from certain distance and also wasting flash is nowhere near as good as getting a kill. he would have to be very very lucky to flash away with your ult wasted because he doesn't have enough time to react unless he has real life hacks and you should have more time to threat your ultimate with because your movement speed should be equal or almost equal to his
gonna add the fancy pictures good idea wave
^^^^^^^^^^ at the above people especially on purple side don't last hit the first one or 2 creeps to guarantee their lane will pull (I think? at least I do). getting better at last hittim will ensure not pushing only if the creep you are killing isn't getting attacked by a melee minion afaik.
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Triple post really necessary? I don't even know who you're talking to in that last one.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On the same note does anyone have any good pictures of tantrum, like of all the other skills there or do I have to make me some new picture meself?
also I am pretty sure "strenght" is the correct way to spell it no? any other suggestions about formatting etc dont be shy.
writing HoG and Doran's ring in normal build I'll see what I can muster up about what to do against counterjungling
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The difference between a level 2 red gank and a level 2 blue gank aside from the points about amumu specifically having more trouble jungling red buff without his W is that if you level 2 red gank the only risk to your top lane is the red-->blue-->top route which is only common in some junglers and probably a big reason why level 2 red ganks are a lot less popular than smiteless blue-->level 3 red gank nowadays, that way you don't have to worry about being level 2 and running into a level 3 jungle.
I regularly deny myself from last hitting when I'm blue side top because of the fact that if the lane pushes I'm kinda screwed. Unless you are actually stronger than the other laner in which case you can hard shove the lane and go base early but if he's stronger he won't let you do that.
On November 06 2012 01:22 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
I think you guys miss the point here, a lot of the time the idea behind ganking isn't to get a kill, it's to put pressure on your opponent so they can't farm and have to play scared, to damage them so your laner can zone them with all-in threats, to blow flashes so they can't play aggressively, and to let your laner get a slight advantage which they can snowball themselves. Ganking isn't about killing people, that's just best-case scenario.
Again this is valid but completely ignoring the impending threat of the follow up gank from the double buff 3 minutes purple side gank which is stronger and has less downsides making all the benefits of the level 2 gank turned around.
The argument isn't that the gank is bad, rather the results of the gank end up negatively for very specific circumstances. (unless your support warded top early but even then if you level 2 gank as amumu it cripples your ability to come top to counter camp because of how long it'll take to get level 4 and come top, whereas if you're getting camped top you can come and countergank when they overextend in the gank.
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On November 06 2012 01:32 Scip wrote:
On the same note does anyone have any good pictures of tantrum, like of all the other skills there or do I have to make me some new picture meself?
Hmmm I wonder why I never did that one. I can do one later for you if you're just going to use mine and want it to stay uniform for some reason. Otherwise yeah just make a game, hit E next to some enemies and time your screengrab key just right.
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On November 06 2012 01:24 Scip wrote:
Ok I'll check mlg VoDs to see that but I'm 99% sure that when he did that he went for DFG which is not viable anymore for obvious reasons
I am pretty sure Abyssal is nowhere near standard. any idea who builds it to check?
buying pink wards on amumu is generally about as good as buying pink wards on any other jungler i. e. pretty good. enemy wraiths when you are purple side, bottom tribush if you are blue side, etc. it's a great idea often enough to be mentioned.
wolves -> blue -> wraiths -> wolves -> red -> wraiths -> evaluate isn't good at all from what I know because it puts very little pressure on middle lane because any trip towards middle lane will delay your red even more and even then you won't have red buff if an opportunity presents itself. it delays your 2nd red buff and it is a bit dangerous if enemy gets any funny ideas. It's generally outclassed by wolves-blue-red-wraiths for these reasons
^^^^^^^^^^ at the above people especially on purple side don't last hit the first one or 2 creeps to guarantee their lane will pull (I think? at least I do). getting better at last hittim will ensure not pushing only if the creep you are killing isn't getting attacked by a melee minion afaik.
Just picking the parts I think are worth debating:
He had sorc, 2 rings, and a FH when I saw him on saturday (I think clg vs clg), but sona had aegis so he didn't need it
Abyssal is a situational item, but it's useful when you need to burst vs an AP heavy team. You're not going to find someone that builds it core because it's not, but neither is FoN or Banshee's. I just think you should include it as a possible option because it is.
If you're going to be pink warding to counter-ward their greens then you should usually just grab an oracles instead. Only spot where I think pinks are warranted is at dragon. Let the supports pick up pinks because you really want your gold generation items fast on Amumu (and oracles counts as a gold generation item).
wolves blue wraiths wolves red wraiths is the fastest possible way to get level 4 and both buffs, why wouldn't you mention it? Every camp comes up at the exact time you get there and your smite is up when you get to red. Seriously, bro, do you even lift?
And wtf are you talking about not last hitting 2 creeps in a wave will NOT cause a wave to push towards you. There's enough time in between waves coming that the wave won't push by itself for a LONG time.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On November 06 2012 01:37 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 01:32 Scip wrote:
On the same note does anyone have any good pictures of tantrum, like of all the other skills there or do I have to make me some new picture meself? Hmmm I wonder why I never did that one. I can do one later for you if you're just going to use mine and want it to stay uniform for some reason. Otherwise yeah just make a game, hit E next to some enemies and time your screengrab key just right.
if you could do one to make them all look similiar and non-bipolar that would be awesome please. it's not gonna be ready until tommorow (european) evening anyways so yes pls :3
other stuff: I don't top lane but when I do I don't last hit last 2 creeps and the lane pulls for me. Idk both you and Slayer toplane just come up with a consensus about what happens what you do that so I don't have to test it myself nyan
you have to wait about 10-15 seconds on wolves if you do the wolves blue wraiths wolves path so it's not without wait.
gold generation on your is pretty important at least philostone (hog not necessarily nyan Ill finish the write up gimme 10 min) also getting pinks instead of your support means you can use them at places support can't (enemy wraiths/your own wraiths etc) and also the support gets gold generation faster then which means faster Shurelyas which is really awesome.
also the wolves-blue-wraiths-wolves path gets nasty if enemy jungler wants to do silly stuff with your red buff. I might mention it maybe but it's like nowhere near standard path or even a generally good path.
edit: also pink ward is a green ward alongside with clearing ward things so its really good for that as well.
vvvvvvvv @slayer
finally you see reason and stop getting HoG. I'm proud of you *insert slowpoke image*
idk we talked about haunting guise a bit ago and it is like, instead of haunting guise you could upgrade your philostone to shurelyas or get 75% of your aegis. FH is legit mentioned that already I think I gave it justice, I mean Randuins is really fkin awesome with your ult so you often don't want to pass that up.
can you explain a bit more about when to get abyssal with your standard build guys?
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I think sorc boots are legit, and I'm starting to like HoG less because of all the good shit there is to buy UNLESS you're getting randuins. Abyssal, aegis, frozen heart, haunting guise, all really good items and I'm not sure the small gold advantage of hog is worth slowing down the spell pen/cdr/aura items.
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On November 06 2012 01:37 Slayer91 wrote:The difference between a level 2 red gank and a level 2 blue gank aside from the points about amumu specifically having more trouble jungling red buff without his W is that if you level 2 red gank the only risk to your top lane is the red-->blue-->top route which is only common in some junglers and probably a big reason why level 2 red ganks are a lot less popular than smiteless blue-->level 3 red gank nowadays, that way you don't have to worry about being level 2 and running into a level 3 jungle. I regularly deny myself from last hitting when I'm blue side top because of the fact that if the lane pushes I'm kinda screwed. Unless you are actually stronger than the other laner in which case you can hard shove the lane and go base early but if he's stronger he won't let you do that. Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 01:22 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
I think you guys miss the point here, a lot of the time the idea behind ganking isn't to get a kill, it's to put pressure on your opponent so they can't farm and have to play scared, to damage them so your laner can zone them with all-in threats, to blow flashes so they can't play aggressively, and to let your laner get a slight advantage which they can snowball themselves. Ganking isn't about killing people, that's just best-case scenario. Again this is valid but completely ignoring the impending threat of the follow up gank from the double buff 3 minutes purple side gank which is stronger and has less downsides making all the benefits of the level 2 gank turned around. The argument isn't that the gank is bad, rather the results of the gank end up negatively for very specific circumstances. (unless your support warded top early but even then if you level 2 gank as amumu it cripples your ability to come top to counter camp because of how long it'll take to get level 4 and come top, whereas if you're getting camped top you can come and countergank when they overextend in the gank.
You're only pointing out the worst possible case scenario when not pointing out the best possible case scenario: you get a kill/opponent's top lane has to b and you have a level 3 top lane vs a level 1 top lane.
Also if you kill them/force them to b/damage them heavily enough then a countergank won't be as strong. And if you time it right, YOU WON'T PUSH THE WAVE ENOUGH FOR IT TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE, all you'll do is force your opponent to get zoned off of xp as creeps die after next wave has squared off.
Your risk/reward analysis is really bad because you're severely overestimating the risk and completely not calculating the reward part of it.
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On November 06 2012 01:40 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 01:37 WaveofShadow wrote:On November 06 2012 01:32 Scip wrote:
On the same note does anyone have any good pictures of tantrum, like of all the other skills there or do I have to make me some new picture meself? Hmmm I wonder why I never did that one. I can do one later for you if you're just going to use mine and want it to stay uniform for some reason. Otherwise yeah just make a game, hit E next to some enemies and time your screengrab key just right. if you could do one to make them all look similiar and non-bipolar that would be awesome please. it's not gonna be ready until tommorow (european) evening anyways so yes pls :3 other stuff: I don't top lane but when I do I don't last hit last 2 creeps and the lane pulls for me. Idk both you and Slayer toplane just come up with a consensus about what happens what you do that so I don't have to test it myself nyan you have to wait about 10-15 seconds on wolves if you do the wolves blue wraiths wolves path so it's not without wait.
i'm assuming you haven't tried it or you're jungling a lot slower than me because it comes up almost exactly as you get there assuming you kill them at 1:50 and have a leash on blue
also keep in mind that i take e first so my small camps are faster than yours
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Additional minor things:
You wrote "Skill" in Q-Skill, but "skill" in W, E, R-skill. I personally like "Skill" more.
It's "strength", not strenght"
Amumu is a strong jungler picked semi-regularly in tournament games (post-S2 championship finals). His main strenght is his teamfight, doing tons of damage and having massive CC. In the early game he can offer strong ganks, especially in middle lane. Amumu is considered weak to counterjungling, but usually he can manage.
Passive: Cursed Touch
(Innate) Amumu's autoattacks reduce the target's magic resistance by 15 / 25 / 35 for 3 seconds. The debuff doesn't stack but it refreshes with every autoattack.
A decent passive, though quite uninteresting. Another good reason to autoattack people in teamfights and ganks. When killing small golems, you should autoattack the small golem once to increase your damage against him.
targets
Q Skill: Bandage Toss
(Active) Amumu tosses a sticky bandage in a straight line. If it contacts an enemy, Amumu will pull himself to it, dealing magic damage and stunning the target for 1 second.
Cost: Cost: 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 / 120 mana, Cooldown: 16 / 14 / 12 / 10 / 8 seconds, Magic Damage: 80 / 140 / 200 / 260 / 320 (+0.7 per ability power)
Range: 1,100, Projetile speed: 1800
A very good skill for ganks, fights and to spiderman in jungle if you don't need the mana for whatever reason. You can use this skill to initiate teamfights, just hit an important target and ultimate. During a teamfight, use this skill to stick to and stun an important target, usually the enemy AD or AP carry. When your carries are significantly stronger than theirs, you can use this skill to peel for them.
When ganking, you can either shoot this skill from the fog of war (from a brush or from behind a wall) or you have to get in a position where hitting this skill is guaranteed/almost guaranteed. Try to walk up to your target from side or from behind before shooting, dodging from very short range is impossible without flash. Nothing ruins ganks more than a premature shot that ends up missing.
Projectile
Itembuild:
Boots+3 are the starting items for obvious reasons: faster jungling, better ganks and sustain from pots. The standard build is as follows.
Philosopher's Stone is the first item built, the HP and mana regen are important for staying in jungle without having to back too often. It also builds into Shurelya's Reverie, which is one of your core items. The gold per 10 is a small bonus added on top of an already great item.
The standard Amumu core build is Shurelya's Reverie, Aegis of Legion and Boots2.
Boots are usually either Mercury Treads or Ninja Tabi depending on how much CC and physical/magical damage enemy team has. Though Sorcerer's shoes are useable for slightly more fighting strenght in smaller fights, they are generally not reccomended. Mobility boots generally don't help Amumu's ganks enough to justify them. WIthout an escape skill, Amumu needs all the fighting strenght he can get.
In what order to finish your core items is up to debate. Aegis of the Legion gives you the most fighting strenght for the least cost, Boots2 speed up your jungling and help your ganks a little bit, Shurelya's Reverie allows you to initiate teamfights and ganks even better. Generally, build Shurelya's first if they are necessary for your team to follow up your initiate effectively. Otherwise, Aegis+boots2 first are better.
strength, recommended, Amumus, Without
Since you asked in a post above which i read after writing this, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strength
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
Its weird, my dictionary has both strenght and strength as words that mean what they mean. But I guess strength is the "better" way to spell it, gonna replace.
half of these typos are ctrl+c ctrl+v from leaguepedia. lol.
vvvvv yeah my textbook says Amumu's is the correct form to denote possesion. Same for "target's" like, "of the target".
JUST tested the wolves-blue-wraiths-wolves path. Starting blue buff without any leash at all I finishes wraiths and came to wolves at 2:43. You will usually finish wolves at about 1:49, sometimes a second slower on blue side because only middle lane will help you. with leash+some dmg you should be able to do the golem about 3-4 seconds faster. so that's about 10 seconds waiting time. It's right on time when you start regrowth. Trust me, I played at least 150 games as different junglers doing that path, I know the timings.
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Since we're in spelling and grammar class...
Item Build, strength, recommended, and Without should be corrected.
But "Amumu's ganks" is correct.
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True, sorry. I remembered that incorrectly, but after looking it up, you are right. Also applies to "target's" then, of course.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
alright, added the HoG+Doran's section, hope it's not awkward, checklist+requests:
level4 jungle path (maybe)
abyssal - tell me when to get it guys
sorc shoes when not doing azingy build? maybe?
runes? yall fine with them?
and grammar check
thx Simberto and Sandster, big help so far :3
how to deal with counterjungle
I'll be back in about an hour, gotta do stuff
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Spoilered because it's kinda off topic.
+ Show Spoiler [Grammar nitpicking] +
Target's is the possessive. Correct usage.
Armor Seals are mandatory for jungling, absolutely necessary to reduce the damage from jungle creeps.
This sentence reads a little weird.
A very good skill for ganks, fights and to spiderman in jungle
Be consistent - ganks, fights are in one form, but then you throw in the infinitive 'to spiderman'
for ganking, fighting, and hopping over walls in the jungle
or
to gank, to fight, and to spiderman in the jungle.
Is W really better than E level 1? I thought we did some math saying that E was more DPS and DPM?
It's DEFINITELY better if you're getting shoved away from your own blue buff and need to clear some small camps instead.
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Scip:
Should there be mentions that a mid-laner with strong early game strongly complements Amumu, whose 1-5 is really sad?
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On November 06 2012 01:45 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 01:37 Slayer91 wrote:The difference between a level 2 red gank and a level 2 blue gank aside from the points about amumu specifically having more trouble jungling red buff without his W is that if you level 2 red gank the only risk to your top lane is the red-->blue-->top route which is only common in some junglers and probably a big reason why level 2 red ganks are a lot less popular than smiteless blue-->level 3 red gank nowadays, that way you don't have to worry about being level 2 and running into a level 3 jungle. I regularly deny myself from last hitting when I'm blue side top because of the fact that if the lane pushes I'm kinda screwed. Unless you are actually stronger than the other laner in which case you can hard shove the lane and go base early but if he's stronger he won't let you do that. On November 06 2012 01:22 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
I think you guys miss the point here, a lot of the time the idea behind ganking isn't to get a kill, it's to put pressure on your opponent so they can't farm and have to play scared, to damage them so your laner can zone them with all-in threats, to blow flashes so they can't play aggressively, and to let your laner get a slight advantage which they can snowball themselves. Ganking isn't about killing people, that's just best-case scenario. Again this is valid but completely ignoring the impending threat of the follow up gank from the double buff 3 minutes purple side gank which is stronger and has less downsides making all the benefits of the level 2 gank turned around. The argument isn't that the gank is bad, rather the results of the gank end up negatively for very specific circumstances. (unless your support warded top early but even then if you level 2 gank as amumu it cripples your ability to come top to counter camp because of how long it'll take to get level 4 and come top, whereas if you're getting camped top you can come and countergank when they overextend in the gank. You're only pointing out the worst possible case scenario when not pointing out the best possible case scenario: you get a kill/opponent's top lane has to b and you have a level 3 top lane vs a level 1 top lane. Also if you kill them/force them to b/damage them heavily enough then a countergank won't be as strong. And if you time it right, YOU WON'T PUSH THE WAVE ENOUGH FOR IT TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE, all you'll do is force your opponent to get zoned off of xp as creeps die after next wave has squared off. Your risk/reward analysis is really bad because you're severely overestimating the risk and completely not calculating the reward part of it.
Okay
so you have level 2 amumu with no red buff and we're ganking as soon as we kill blue so the lane's pretty even in the middle
we have bandage toss and e combo doing about 150ish damage to a target without magic resist runes, add an auto and even if he has 0 armour thats 200 damage
we have a level 1 laner with 500-600 hp and level 1 ignite does about 70 damage, so your top laner is going to need to do A LOT of damage to him to kill him if he flashes away.
And forcing him to b? He has 3, probably 4 potions, he just burns 2 pots and a flash which sounds pretty good but that seems to me best case scenario unless the laners were fighting from the second they got into lane and this scenario definitely pushes the lane because autos draw aggro and you're forcing the guy away from last hits.
It just doesnt seem to be a good situation. I'm level 3 or 4 with red and blue buff I have a laner that's level 2 or 3 and presumably it's pushed by now and my laner and I can chase him down without needing to use Q until he flashes thanks to red buff slow and extra spells, this guy will be taking a lot more than 300 damage if he even survives and the lane may well be freezeable too depending on how hard it was pushing.
If you have replays of your level 2 ganks working out really well for you I'd be glad to see them.
Also at the early stages of the game it's next to impossible to "not make a difference" in the lane direction if you do anything at all. (Unless you just Q E don't auto and your laner does nothing and you did nothing but made him waste 1 pot)
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On November 06 2012 02:27 sylverfyre wrote:Spoilered because it's kinda off topic. + Show Spoiler [Grammar nitpicking] +
Target's is the possessive. Correct usage.
Armor Seals are mandatory for jungling, absolutely necessary to reduce the damage from jungle creeps.
This sentence reads a little weird.
A very good skill for ganks, fights and to spiderman in jungle
Be consistent - ganks, fights are in one form, but then you throw in the infinitive 'to spiderman'
for ganking, fighting, and hopping over walls in the jungle
or
to gank, to fight, and to spiderman in the jungle.
Is W really better than E level 1? I thought we did some math saying that E was more DPS and DPM? It's DEFINITELY better if you're getting shoved away from your own blue buff and need to clear some small camps instead.
I was under the impression that in a perfect leash scenario E is superior because of the damage reduction, but perfect leashes are a lot to ask for so I get W first anyway.
Also, something not brought up in the guide that I'm very curious about is how you guys (as in, much better amumu players) differ your build based on whether or not you have a midlaner who needs blue. If you have a katarina or vlad in mid, blue is all yours whenever you want it, making mana regen (and perhaps even CDR) less vital... so how would you change it up?
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
without leash W is about 2-3 seconds faster on red buff, so it should be same for blue buff. With any leash at all W is better because E loses damage when you aren't attacked. So W is better.
You don't really change your build depending on if midlaner gets blue or not, you go philostone into aegis/shurelyas anyway, you do play a bit different simply because you can clear jungle a tiny bit faster because you can spiderman into camps so you have more time to do funky stuff like ganking but that's kinda it. it's not deal breaking or a game changer in a big way no.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
quote instead of edit too stronk. nyan.
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W is slightly faster on big camp, but I take E first mainly for flexiblity. Many teams invade against Amumu, knowing he's very weak level 1 and one of the most blue-reliant junglers for first clear. I get E to clear wolves faster and take less damage, and be able to still clear rest of jungle if invades do happen past the 1:40 mark. I generally get a good enough leash that the 1-2 sec difference between W vs E on blue doesn't matter much to me, compared to how screwed I am if I get invaded leveling W first.
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or you can just not level anything until you have to
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On November 06 2012 02:35 Sufficiency wrote:
Scip:
Should there be mentions that a mid-laner with strong early game strongly complements Amumu, whose 1-5 is really sad?
his pre 6 is better than a lot of junglers
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On November 06 2012 03:32 zulu_nation8 wrote:
or you can just not level anything until you have to
Like I already said...post 1:40 invade. It's pretty common for teams to invade after wolves already spawn and catch you transitioning to blue.
On November 06 2012 03:33 zulu_nation8 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 02:35 Sufficiency wrote:
Scip:
Should there be mentions that a mid-laner with strong early game strongly complements Amumu, whose 1-5 is really sad? his pre 6 is better than a lot of junglers
Yeah - just is level 1 is weak. Once he gets to 3 he does decently with all the burst from Q+auto(passive)+E, and sustained damage from W/E.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
well, post 1:40 invade so you kill wolves, go to your blue, boom they kill your teammates and you barely escape
so you naturally go to your red buff, which you can do better with W than with E. After that you get lvl2 so it doesn't matter past that point.
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We're not really having a discussion here. Both sides are just posting their opinions and assuming the other side is dumb and wrong. I'm going to withdraw from the discussion because nobody's going to change any opinions regardless of who's right, and to be honest I'm not sure who is on the w/e discussion but if your only metric is the speed you can clear the jungle fastest with then I think we care about different things. I'm an aggressive jungler and laner and I like to put pressure on my opponents as much as possible without overextending too much. I camp top lane hard as jungle on any jungler and play gank-heavy styles. My idea of good jungling is snowballing top lane really hard because I used to main top lane and I know how easy it is to lose a game if you don't set yourself back super hard when you're getting camped. I play eweq or eqew depending on if i'm ganking at level 2 or 4, while you guys play weqe or weeq depending if you're ganking at 3 or 4. My path if i'm not ganking is wolf blue wraith wolf red wraith evaluate because it's the most efficient way to get to 4 without ganking or getting a smiteless blue. Sometimes I gank at level 2 with eq after blue if I think it'll help top win lane with relatively little consequence. My runes are Flat AP/mpen/armor/scaling AP and I run 0/21/9. My win rate in solo queue is 65%. I max q after 2 points in e and I auto-attack when I gank because I'm confident in my bandage tosses. I get sunfire/abyssal if I'm ahead because I enjoy snowballing games.
I'll leave it at that, because I'm not writing the guide. Just for the record, I think you're all quite intelligent and I admire the effort you're putting in. I think we just clash on personality issues because this is the internet and ego gets in the way.
GL HF
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On November 06 2012 02:52 Scip wrote:
without leash W is about 2-3 seconds faster on red buff, so it should be same for blue buff. With any leash at all W is better because E loses damage when you aren't attacked. So W is better.
You don't really change your build depending on if midlaner gets blue or not, you go philostone into aegis/shurelyas anyway, you do play a bit different simply because you can clear jungle a tiny bit faster because you can spiderman into camps so you have more time to do funky stuff like ganking but that's kinda it. it's not deal breaking or a game changer in a big way no.
That doesn't really make sense to me. Once your first blue wears off, my biggest concern is mana regen (so i can actually farm jungles/lanes without backing all the time, let alone have enough juice left to fight) and my biggest offensive concern is CDR. hogging the blue buff all to yourself means that you have 20% CDR and effectively infinite mana whenever it's up, which is maximum 3 minute out of every 5 minutes. This doesn't effect how you play/item build at all?
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If you get blues you can get ninja tabi dolans shield aegis into frozen heart and tower dive shit all day
pretty glorious
also 5hitcombo lol about egos and personalities clashing I'm pretty sure the points i made as to why I don't like level 2 ganking are all valid and who cares about anything else
I tested more haunting guise, don't like it really, amumu isn't really as bursty assasinny as malphite is with his ult I find being tanky seems to be better. Abyssal is still probably worth it a lot of the time it's a team aura as well but I'm probably going to go back to shurelya aegis frozen heart sorcs or mercs or tabi with a negatron in there somewhere.
Malphite with sorcs chalice haunting guise into abyssal is actually a good build against certain laners (vlad and shit) and when you hit level 16 you have retarded burst that why I was trying it on amumu.
Also the current jungle is a fucking joke xp/gold wise. Like an hour ago I was 8/0 on amumu at around 20 mins or something and I was just about to hit level 10 and both mid laners were level 12 and both died more than once. What the fuck? At least if your laners die you can farm their lane and get hella xp but right now if your laners are doing good you just get shit for xp (especially if your mid laner wants wraiths and blue, and bot lane takes golems and red, good luck farming wolves from level 9 onwards)
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On November 06 2012 09:53 Slayer91 wrote:
If you get blues you can get ninja tabi dolans shield aegis into frozen heart and tower dive shit all day
pretty glorious
also 5hitcombo lol about egos and personalities clashing I'm pretty sure the points i made as to why I don't like level 2 ganking are all valid and who cares about anything else
I tested more haunting guise, don't like it really, amumu isn't really as bursty assasinny as malphite is with his ult I find being tanky seems to be better. Abyssal is still probably worth it a lot of the time it's a team aura as well but I'm probably going to go back to shurelya aegis frozen heart sorcs or mercs or tabi with a negatron in there somewhere.
Malphite with sorcs chalice haunting guise into abyssal is actually a good build against certain laners (vlad and shit) and when you hit level 16 you have retarded burst that why I was trying it on amumu.
Also the current jungle is a fucking joke xp/gold wise. Like an hour ago I was 8/0 on amumu at around 20 mins or something and I was just about to hit level 10 and both mid laners were level 12 and both died more than once. What the fuck? At least if your laners die you can farm their lane and get hella xp but right now if your laners are doing good you just get shit for xp (especially if your mid laner wants wraiths and blue, and bot lane takes golems and red, good luck farming wolves from level 9 onwards)
5hatcombo*
also dolans shield is the greatest thing ive ever seen
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I started calling them all dolans now and my enjoyment of LoL has gone up by like 40%
and when people complain about my double dolans shield builds top lane for example im just like
gooby pls
also in season 2
5hit played 26 amumu games
scipaeus121212 played 100
just sayin~
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He was my top played behind cho in S1 as well with about 150 games i think
(totally lied, my recall is off, i only had 73 ranked games with him s1)
Also I've been playing this game since beta as primarily a jungle main and I considered amumu as my second or third main jungler throughout
The point where I was top 200 on NA ladder I mained amumu and chogath
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Anyway for purposes of a guide W first or E first isn't a big deal. W is generally more standard and easier for new Amumu players (which, after all, is the purpose of a guide). A few more comments about the guide:
-One of the most common mistakes I see with new junglers is that they initiate with their gap closer when it's not necessary. I'm sure we've all seen the Lee that camps a lane for 30 secs, finally goes in, and misses his Q and leaves. Probably worth commenting that you want to just walk up from behind and just beat up the guy whenever possible, and bandage when they blow their flash/escape.
-I know it's obvious, but the reason Amumu is feared is because of his ult. I would just make that more clear in the guide. It's one of the most game changing abilities in the game, and also has one of the longest cds.
+ Show Spoiler + Small grammar nitpick - "CCing the enemy isn't very useful when only you *and the* support are still alive."
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On November 06 2012 13:34 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
He was my top played behind cho in S1 as well with about 150 games i think
(totally lied, my recall is off, i only had 73 ranked games with him s1)
Also I've been playing this game since beta as primarily a jungle main and I considered amumu as my second or third main jungler throughout
The point where I was top 200 on NA ladder I mained amumu and chogath
Sure you're a good amumu player but the tactic you suggested is ONLY not viable since the changes introduced with the s2 jungle which you haven't played much of him with and weren't your best days cause you were ranked top 200 sometime in season one right?
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United States47024 Posts
On November 06 2012 10:15 Slayer91 wrote:
I started calling them all dolans now and my enjoyment of LoL has gone up by like 40%
and when people complain about my double dolans shield builds top lane for example im just like
gooby pls
This guy knows whats up.
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On November 07 2012 06:47 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 13:34 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
He was my top played behind cho in S1 as well with about 150 games i think
(totally lied, my recall is off, i only had 73 ranked games with him s1)
Also I've been playing this game since beta as primarily a jungle main and I considered amumu as my second or third main jungler throughout
The point where I was top 200 on NA ladder I mained amumu and chogath Sure you're a good amumu player but the tactic you suggested is ONLY not viable since the changes introduced with the s2 jungle which you haven't played much of him with and weren't your best days cause you were ranked top 200 sometime in season one right?
No, I only started doing level 2 blue gank about 3 months ago after being told by a diamond friend about ap max q mummy.
He was literally just like "yeah I just go eq and gank lv 2 with blue buff" "its super strong" "then you just max q and burst the shit out of them" "nobody expects it"
Part of the reason for that is blue buff used to be strong as shit so you couldn't kill it very easily with e at lv 1 and had to take w which crippled your gank power
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On November 06 2012 23:55 Sandster wrote:Anyway for purposes of a guide W first or E first isn't a big deal. W is generally more standard and easier for new Amumu players (which, after all, is the purpose of a guide). A few more comments about the guide: -One of the most common mistakes I see with new junglers is that they initiate with their gap closer when it's not necessary. I'm sure we've all seen the Lee that camps a lane for 30 secs, finally goes in, and misses his Q and leaves. Probably worth commenting that you want to just walk up from behind and just beat up the guy whenever possible, and bandage when they blow their flash/escape. -I know it's obvious, but the reason Amumu is feared is because of his ult. I would just make that more clear in the guide. It's one of the most game changing abilities in the game, and also has one of the longest cds. + Show Spoiler + Small grammar nitpick - "CCing the enemy isn't very useful when only you *and the* support are still alive."
W or E first is only really relevant if you want to gank at level 2, for which W is completely useless. W is from what I hear about 2-3 seconds faster on the buff, though.
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You run ap quints and blues with that set up?
i tried that with 2x dolans rings into sorcs and abyssal and it has its moments but I find it generally impractical because you get raped by poke. It's still hilarious to like 1v2 their ad and ap carry when they try to gank you and shit if you're doing well though
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Flat AP Quints, mpen reds, armor yellows, scaling ap blues, 0/21/9
eqewer or eweqer or if i think i'm gonna be ganking more than farming max q after 2 points in e
standard boots 3 -> philo/hog -> aegis with oracles when i feel like i can start having it pay off and merc/sorc when i feel like I need it
diverge in build from here, usually just finish randuins/shurel but sometimes FoN/Banshees vs heavy AP and if I'm snowballing Sunfire/Abyssal
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
I genuinely can't believe I forgot about this, holy lol wtf. Alright I got school tommorow, so I guess I'll have it all written up+all agreed upon suggestions added in late tommorow evening and I'll make a new thread for it then.
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United States37500 Posts
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/B6fFv.jpg)
