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What does everyone think of the patch preview and upcoming changes? I know it's tough to really tell what's going to happen until we try it out.
From first glance it seems like this might make Ryze a better champion overall and one you'd see more in higher levels of play than you currently do. Personally though I'm not sure how the changes will affect me. I've built my whole playstyle around the current setup and I find it to be fun. I worry the changes will make it so it won't be as fun and Ryze will no longer be an assassin.
For items it seems like due to the increased focus on mana scaling, archangel's staff will be my first item instead of rod of ages. The slow effect on rylai's for single targets might be more useful now due to shorter cooldowns, but it doesn't have mana on it either. Banshees Veil seems very attractive for a survivability item.
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United States47024 Posts
I think it's funny that their goal is to make Ryze the "Ashe of magic" when Ashe stands out among ranged AD carries because of her amazing CC/utility--and Ryze still falls behind other casters in CC by having only a single snare.
TBH that's always been my beef with Ryze. His damage is fine. His range is low but acceptable (Kennen and Morgana both are fine with needing to be up close to maximize their damage). His real problem has always been his lack of utility compared to other more commonly used casters.
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the MF of magic is probably more appropriate here
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Low range, bouncing attack? Sivir of Magic?
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Yeah the fact that Ashe can slow with each attack is nice, though with a Rylai's if the cooldowns are truly that low then Ryze can be as effective in that department. Also, imagine constant snares if rune prison has a much shorter cooldown. It will be much more useful.
Teamfights will be interesting, as the strategy now is to cast a combo and then run out because of Ryze's vulnerability. This has caused a lot of inexperienced players to yell at me for "not staying in and fighting." It gets really frustrating sometimes. Of course the reason for the rework was for this reason; players should want to be constantly involved in the fight. Lets hope the range increase is enough to keep the Ryze player safe during all of this though A lower cooldown snare should also help with this for any melee carry trying to close the gap.
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i think tank ryze will be just even more OP with this change
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So I tried out the new Ryze and my teammates gave me no support or protection so it was hard to judge if he is good or bad, but I gather this (it seems most of you have figured this out too):
His AP scaling is so bad that AP isn't even something to be concerned about. I just think of it as an added bonus I happen to get with Archangel's and RoA. The good news is that his mana scaling is good, and this in turn gives him survivability and damage for the price of one.
I started with a tear and then got a catalyst. After that I finished the RoA followed by the Archangel's. Somewhere in here too I got sorcerer's shoes. After this just build tanky. Frozen heart is the best choice unless you're taking a lot of magic damage, in which case banshee's first. Both items give mana to improve damage. With CDR glyphs the CDR from Frozen Heart is enough to max it out. At lvl 18 without including the passive, Q is at 2.1, and W and E are at 8.7 secs.
Keep stacking mana items after the FH and BV in most cases. I've found that things like Deathcap are worthless since you don't have much AP benefits anyway. Rylai's I felt was initially a decent idea but I found it to be pretty underwhelming and not worth it because it gives no mana. I'd stick with Ghost Flash for my summoner spells so I can catch stragglers and keep casting Q at them. I'll probably change my AP quints to mana quints. I'll probably update the guide soon when I'm more certain about all these things.
Spell Flux is pretty shitty now and I hope it gets a buff like mana scaling or something. Its once fun use is gone. Just use it now for the MR and CDR from your passive. I lvl it last and alternate between Q and W otherwise.
Early game is absolutely terrible. I find it very difficult to farm. Ryze is good late game with these items, but good luck farming for them. There are still loads of better carries that outrange me and have better harassment early on, thus preventing good farming from me. This is another thing that needs to be changed. Maybe at least a faster auto attack missile for last hits. E no longer farms for shit.
The ult is pretty useless too. Spell vamp isnt beneficial, especially since you're building tanky anyway. I'm hoping for a change that gives you max mana that boost Q and W equal to what the AP boost used to do for them.
Playstyle is to be annoying with Q and keep casting it. Assassin bursting is no longer really viable. You can keep casting spells in fights (mainly only Q) but you better hope your team can keep the other team off you. I got focused down hard in the game I played because my Rammus went in and instantly died. I find oddly that I need to play the same in teamfights even though I no longer have the burst. If I dont flash out after my first combo I usually get wrecked, except now I havent done too much hurt to them yet.
I hope they change the useless things because otherwise why even have them? He certainly has the ability to be effective in games but I'm not really a fan of the new playstyle. I find it monotonous; not the fun I used to have. Even if I'm doing well it's just boring.
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United States47024 Posts
I would figure his laning would be better since Q/E now outranges all autoattacks and non-skillshot nukes from anyone who's not Zilean, Kassadin, or Leblanc.
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Rod of ages was a waste of money.
Straight up catalyst -> tear -> glacial -> banshee -> frozen heart -> void staff.
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You can get 39% CDR just from frozen heart, lvl 5 q, and masteries. Seems they turned him into a tanky caster. AP just isn't really great on him but mana is. The spellvamp on his ult is retarded. You might burst for like 1k but that equates to 150 health from his combo and then your ult is basically over........
I agree with Tapioca. RoA isn't that great on him. Turn cata into a banshee's instead.
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I found that Ryze chainguns a lot better if you are less concerned with hitting your utility skills and more concerned with getting more Qs out. That is, Q->R->Q->E->Q->W->Q (swap utility skills around as you feel). It's best with max CDR since that reduces the combo duration to 4.4 seconds. It makes sense since Q scales the best out of anything, you want to Q as much as possible as fast as possible. Any other kind of rotation sucks for you in terms of damage, there's just no point in W->E->Q since E magic reduction doesn't add as much damage as two more Qs do and the extra Qs reduce all your other cooldowns anyways.
I didn't understand why Shurelia said playtesters thought new Ryze might be OP until I tried this out. I'm surprised no one mentioned this new rotation before I did, honestly.
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Pretty sure you have to open W as your first or second spell to actually hold someone down so you can machine gun them, plus rune prison is easily the spell you want to chain twice in a combo.
(Q) -> W -> Q -> R -> Q -> E -> Q -> Q -> W -> Q would be a very successful rotation for me.
And he absolutely HORRIBLY needs cleanse. The last thing you want is for some bitch sion disrupting the flow of your spells. Banshee helps with that, however, and ghost/flash also helps him a lot, so I am not sure what to change.
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Well I figured that in a team fight you might not need to hold someone down first if your other teammates have cc, so R might be a good option for more AoE damage. But yeah that's probably the only situation I'd do that instead of W. If you can close the gap against the opponent by running at them though (ghost to initiate huehuehue) you might get that Q in before W to start the chain.
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Bah, ryze #1 cc. No travel time, no skillshot, just point and someone is instantly rooted, lolol.
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United States47024 Posts
It's a shame Innervating Locket is out of the game. Locket seems like the perfect item for new Ryze.
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Oh god locket ryze would break the game right now.
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Tear first imo. I tried ryze last night, spamming my abilities as much as possible, and still couldnt fill the damn thing in a 35 minute game. 1000/4=250 spells you need to cast. Might as well get started early.
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On February 18 2011 02:16 Juicyfruit wrote:
Bah, ryze #1 cc. No travel time, no skillshot, just point and someone is instantly rooted, lolol.
Soraka #1 cc. No travel time, no skillshot, just point and someone is instantly silenced. No mana cost either.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 18 2011 02:56 Two_DoWn wrote:
Tear first imo. I tried ryze last night, spamming my abilities as much as possible, and still couldnt fill the damn thing in a 35 minute game. 1000/4=250 spells you need to cast. Might as well get started early.
Cata is too much of a godly laning item. On any champ that gets both, I don't see why you'd get Tear first. Absurd sustainability > a few extra Tear charges.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
the new ryze seems really powerful from what ive seen so far. He's already starting to become FOTM
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EPT
