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On March 14 2011 02:14 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2011 22:55 BluzMan wrote:On March 13 2011 21:42 Iplaythings wrote:
for runes I feel Id go
Mpen reds & quints
armor yellow, MR blue.
It just feels the most logical to me, though I dont have mathcraft to bring into it Way off imo. Mpen reds, armor yellows, but blues and quints both flat mana. Much more early game damage and you have more staying power due to several extra spells. MPen reds are fine. Jiji uses MPen reds/quints + scaling mana yellows/blues. His masteries are also 9/0/21.
Well my problem in the laning phase isnt my mana or damage, its my surviveabillity, maybe I am playing it wrong but I was demolished by a MF who played just a little aggressive.
I also feel tempted to run 9/21/0, just to improve that part of lane which i felt lacking
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On March 13 2011 09:56 Zato-1 wrote:
What do you guys think of the Expanded Mind mastery on Ryze? (+5% max mana @ 4/4 points, 2nd line in Utility tree). If you're gonna go 9/0/21, do you have enough points to squeeze that one in?
It only increases your base mana by 5% (see for instance this).
So it's pretty garbage on Ryze too.
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If you read the red post- it seems like they already fixed it so that it is max mana, considering that the post was 2 months ago and the toolkit wasn't changed.
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On March 14 2011 10:22 Misder wrote:
If you read the red post- it seems like they already fixed it so that it is max mana, considering that the post was 2 months ago and the toolkit wasn't changed.
The red post is from today.
edit: Updated today (one day later) that Expanded Mind is working as intended and the tooltip will be changed (see same topic).
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Didn't realize it worked like that originally, changed the guide accordingly. Points in movement speed and increased buff time instead.
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
Buff time on Ryze is kinda meh, he is a mediocre carrier for both. Blue is great if you can grab it before Glacial Shroud, but after you build it (which should be pretty early if you're doing well) just a blue pot will fetch you 40% CDR and you have no uses for mana regen as well.
How I play Ryze now:
9/0/21 if I'm ballsy, but I prefer 0/9/21 because SoS is too imbalanced.
Summoners are Ghost/Flash, no exceptions. Ryze is slow as fuck, so he needs ghost just to nuke the right targets in a teamfight and flash is obvious.
Runes:
MPen reds
Armor yellows
Flat mana blues
Flat mana quints
The reasoning behind such build is that Ryze is incredibly snowball. The difference between a Ryze that has Tear/Catalyst in early game and a Ryze that doesn't is tremendous. All he really needs is items, he doesn't even need to level up for anything other than extra HP. So all my runes and masteries go into early game (9/0/21 is more a late game build than early game). I don't own dodge yellows, but if I did I would probably get them instead because your core build already contains a lot of armor and dodge would be a nice addition to the mix.
Starting items: sapphire crystal and 2 health pots. With runes you will have slightly less than 750 mana at level 1 which is blasted great.
Lane choice:
Solo lane is preferred, best choice solo mid. Ryze has no innate way to restore health other than SoS, so you don't want to stay in the boring mess of solo top lane that you can't leave. Blue pilling from mid every now and then is required both for healing purposes and to get items. Every item you buy has great effect, a simple sapphire crystal gives you +20 damage on Q and +10 damage on W. However, Ryze can also dual lane pretty well because items are of more importance than levels (consider yourself a ranged DPS in terms of what you get from gold/exp, Ryze doesn't play like a caster in that regard). But make sure that your lanemate is a strong babysitter (your HP is paper) and doesn't farm at all because you need all that gold.
Item build:
No matter what, resist the temptation to go tear first. It's cheap, it gives much needed mana regen and it bolsters your damage, but consider this: you can cast a spell every 2 seconds, you will be able to charge your tear even if you build it late. There's like no need to rush it. So the first item you'd wanna get on Ryze is catalyst. It's infinitely better and with your ranged damage output you will be able to send someone to their fountain (quite possibly dead) in a timeframe of a single level up. It's nice to grab boots on your first b as well, but boots vs catalyst first is debatable. It depends on how is your lane going. If your enemy is already faster than you and gets boots as well, you are only limited to firing back when he chooses to harass you, so catalyst will be better. If the opposite is true and you are on equal speed with them and outrange them, then boots will win you the lane. However, don't go Sorcs first, catalyst is still better.
Your second item is Tear of the goddess, quite obviously. It gives you more damage than Sorc boots anyway (especially since its damage goes up every time you use a spell), so only build sorc boots if you really need that movespeed. They are however your next item once your tear is done.
Once you have your "small core" of catalyst, tear and sorcs, it's the first time in the game Ryze peaks. It's very important how soon in the game this happens. If it's late, you probably won't be a major threat throughout the whole game, if it's early, you will probably win the game outright, because if you have all that stuff around level 8-9, you can literally (no shit) 1v2 the dual lane.
The "large core" is Glacial Shroud -> Frozen Heart and Banshee's Veil, in no particular order. Once that is finished, your need for farm is greatly diminished and you have reached your second peak. Other items are great to have, but they won't be as efficient for their gold as those you've built. If you gain extra gold, spend it on wards/oracles and get things like Void Staff, Banshee's Veils (the spell shields won't stack, but the stats are great nevertheless, I've had games with 3x Banshee's Veils to shit on their casters) and any arbitrary tanking/support stuff (10% CDR aura on Soul Shroud will cap your CDR without blue pot, so will Shurelia's Reverie), hell, even another Frozen Heart would be viable (+50 damage on Q, +99 armor). AP items are trash on Ryze, so don't bother. As for the grade on Tear, both options are equally bad. Manamune might be a little better because of tower damage (you have no AP, remember?) but generally you only grade tear if you have literally nothing else to buy.
Skill order and chaining:
QWE at first 3 levels is a no-brainer, from then on it varies. Grading Q actually gives you very little short-term benefit, with marginal gains in damage and CDR you don't need until your Glacial Shroud is finished or until you somehow gain a blue buff. But if you find that you can only land Q's, definitely go for it. However, if your lane allows you to chain spells and the enemy has to get in range to do damage, level W first. It has better damage growth than Q and increased stun duration gives you much more utility in non-1v1 situations. No matter what, more points than one in E are only spent once everything else is maxed. Taking ult at level 6 is also good, you don't get to use the AoE much, but with the right creepwave, you just use it to heal like an Irelia.
There is one rule in chaining your spells: always Q first. Due to Ryze's passive once you use the other spells it will be available again almost instantly. When you don't have your CDR/ult, standard chaining order is almost instant QWEQ. W first only when you need that 0.3 seconds worth of casting time which is a very very rare occasion. Also, even though your E seems like a better choice for creep healing with your ultimate, it's not so Q first with creepwaves as well. Don't ever be hesitant to ult creeps because that extra health is more important than shitty AoE, spell vamp that is useless in a fight and 1 extra second of reduced cooldowns.
Later in the game, with 40% CDR your chaining changes to Q-?-Q-?-Q-?-Q, most likely QWQEQRQ, however, E first is more efficient if your target is not running away (reducing magic resist) and R first is theoretically more efficient if you can hit multiple targets but I don't think I've even ran into a situation where it was relevant. W first is the best bet because of the disable and the fact that that disable cools down very fast.
Also abuse the fact that you can be pretty brave in teamfights - unlike most casters, you can take a good beating before dying and you're like the best person to trade for a won teamfight because 0 extra AP and AD makes you the worst tower killer ever.
Guess that's it, it may lack depth, but Ryze imo is pretty straightforward, so this advice will work in most situations. One deviation from this might be Merc Treads (you're not a burst but sustained damage caster so the less time disabled the better) with an earlier rush to Void Staff.
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On March 20 2011 00:27 locodoco wrote:
really liking the tanky ap's right now
swain is just so much fun,1 v 5 with blue buff
ryze is probably one of the best casters in game right now in solo q,so much damage once u learn how to combo properly Q -> R -> W -> Q -> E -> Q and tanky as fuck too
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I'm banning ryze/janna/shen atm when it's my ban
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Anyone else notice that Ryze FotM sort of died? Or is MM not putting me against the right people? Like, 2-3 weeks ago I would see tons of Ryzes, like 2 in each normal game, and FP in ranked. Now he's just... Gone from my games.
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Max mana is obviously the go-to stat on Ryze, but I think BluzMan is being unnecessarily harsh on AP. Tear + boots + Banshee's + Frozen Heart make a lot of sense on Ryze, as does Void Staff. However, if the game goes longer than that, I'd get a bit more MRes on Merc Treads (you have void staff anyways so prolly won't need sorc shoes), then go for RoA and upgrade Tear into Archangel's- between those two items + Void Staff you'll have over 300 AP; while max mana is great for Q and nice for W, by late game you're also consistently using E, and AP will help out your initial AoE burst significantly because it affects all of your spells, not just the sustained DPS output from Q.
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Just had a game where I was absolutely stomping. I started Mana chrystal and 2 HP pots.
After I got Catalyst, then Tear, then sorc boots.
Afterwards I build Banshee's veil and Frozen Heart.
I feel lost after this, though. Archangels is pretty nice, but crazy expensive for the stats too, it seems. What are good items to pick up against balanced comps after sorc/bveil/tear?
And what are good items to pick up against melee/magic heavy teams?
Do you guys like Rylai's after a bit of feed? Also, does Ryze stomp Vlad super hard on mid, or am I just l33t?
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United States47024 Posts
On March 30 2011 03:14 BouBou.865 wrote:
Just had a game where I was absolutely stomping. I started Mana chrystal and 2 HP pots.
After I got Catalyst, then Tear, then sorc boots.
Afterwards I build Banshee's veil and Frozen Heart.
I feel lost after this, though. Archangels is pretty nice, but crazy expensive for the stats too, it seems. What are good items to pick up against balanced comps after sorc/bveil/tear?
And what are good items to pick up against melee/magic heavy teams?
Do you guys like Rylai's after a bit of feed? Also, does Ryze stomp Vlad super hard on mid, or am I just l33t?
If you're carrying super-hard and can afford to skip the early BVeil, turn your first Cata into Rod of Ages. It makes you squishier in the short-term but pans out into more beefiness/damage in the long run.
Void Staff is a must late-game against enemies with enough MR. Your last slot is going to be a survivability item tailored toward the team you're against.
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Thanks Yango. Just looking through the masteries I came up with a plan of genius (hopefully).
How about a 9/9/12 set-up?
You take Magic Pen, SoS, experience and the expanded mind mastery. I don't see how the 15% cdr on your summoners is that much more baller than SoS/Mpen.
Any thoughts?
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for the, gottahaveitall spec, you should run 9/7/14. 4 armor is nowhere near as valuable as more bluebuff/greed/movespeed/manaregen.
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United States47024 Posts
On March 30 2011 03:25 BouBou.865 wrote:
Thanks Yango. Just looking through the masteries I came up with a plan of genius (hopefully).
How about a 9/9/12 set-up?
You take Magic Pen, SoS, experience and the expanded mind mastery. I don't see how the 15% cdr on your summoners is that much more baller than SoS/Mpen.
Any thoughts?
15% Summoner CDR isn't all that you're ditching. You also lose:
1 mp5
3% Movespeed
Flash mastery
6% CDR
All of those plus 15% Summoner CDR is probably better than SoS + 6 Armor + 6 MR. Especially since losing 6% CDR suddenly makes it so that Q passive + Frozen Heart don't perfectly cap you, meaning that you have a 6% CDR hole that you actually have to bother figuring out how to fill.
EDIT: And yeah, even if you want SoS, 9/7/14 is going to be better than 9/9/12.
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I don't get the impression that ryze needs SoS at all, even with his amazing synergy.
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United States47024 Posts
On SoS in general, I think people often over-value it. In terms of gold value, it's a lot of gold value for a champ that spend a lot on building mana, but you have to think about what it actually DOES for you. Hp5 is an extremely weak stat after the laning phase is over--if you're getting SoS, it should be on a champ that needs the help during the laning phase (which I don't think Ryze is), because having a ton of Hp5 doesn't really do you much during teamfights.
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On March 30 2011 03:29 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 03:25 BouBou.865 wrote:
Thanks Yango. Just looking through the masteries I came up with a plan of genius (hopefully).
How about a 9/9/12 set-up?
You take Magic Pen, SoS, experience and the expanded mind mastery. I don't see how the 15% cdr on your summoners is that much more baller than SoS/Mpen.
Any thoughts? 15% Summoner CDR isn't all that you're ditching. You also lose: 1 mp5 3% Movespeed Flash mastery 6% CDR All of those plus 15% Summoner CDR is probably better than SoS + 6 Armor + 6 MR. Especially since losing 6% CDR suddenly makes it so that Q passive + Frozen Heart don't perfectly cap you, meaning that you have a 6% CDR hole that you actually have to bother figuring out how to fill. EDIT: And yeah, even if you want SoS, 9/7/14 is going to be better than 9/9/12.
Err, wouldn't it be worth taking Expanded mind over Greed/buff duration/Meditation? Ryze gains so little from Blue buff.
Also, I am currently level 27. Is it better to go 9/0/X, or X/0/21?
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United States47024 Posts
On March 30 2011 03:35 BouBou.865 wrote:
Wouldn't it be worth swapping 1mp5+3% move speed for 5% more total mana?
As mentioned earlier in this thread (and confirmed by the link), Expanded Mind is only 5% base mana. It's a garbage mastery.
Blue buff is very relevant before you finish Glacial.
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On March 30 2011 03:38 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 03:35 BouBou.865 wrote:
Wouldn't it be worth swapping 1mp5+3% move speed for 5% more total mana? As mentioned earlier in this thread (and confirmed by the link), Expanded Mind is only 5% base mana. It's a garbage mastery.
Didn't they fix that to 5% of total mana?
EDIT: nvm
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EPT
