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On February 26 2012 02:58 3 Lions wrote:
I watched CLG vs Dignitas from the Crs Invitational, and saw qtpie get a Black Cleaver on Ezreal. Can someone explain to me why? I feel that the AS bonus from hitting skillshots was pretty solid already, and thus it would be much better to go BT or TF first.
You can stack it really fast with q, and the armor redux is solid so maybe that's why.
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There's a timing window in which most characters that later build armour don't have it yet (especially gp5 junglers). Cleaver is just super good during that period which also coincides with what naturally is Ezreals and Corkis strongest point during the game.
I don't know exactly how much worse the math for BC is compared to LW after people get a significant amount of armour, but I guess it also depends on what kind of runes he was running (I suppose he used 16AD on Ez which would make it even worse than 25pen).
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If you're running APen Marks/Quints and have the 10% mastery your opponents must stack 143.6 Armor before LW becomes better than BC (not factoring in ramp up time). So there's a significant portion of the game where you're not really worse off for having BC, even against many tanks.
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Noob Question
Is the item build in the OP still a good choice?
I've been following it, and I do very well early game, going like in the last game going 5-0, and feel really strong. Then it goes downhill, and at like 20 minute mark I feel like I'm not doing very well any more. And then I end up at like 5-8 at the end, which doesn't sound bad but it's 5 kills in a row then 8 deaths in a row.
It may well be that I'm playing incorrectly, but I haven't had this issue with other champions. I just feel kinda weak.
But yeah, love this champion. Feels way more fun than others I've played, kind of more apm spammable too, feels "busier" than Malzahar and Kassadin which are the other two I'd played more of.
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On March 10 2012 08:33 Deadeight wrote:
Noob Question
Is the item build in the OP still a good choice?
I've been following it, and I do very well early game, going like in the last game going 5-0, and feel really strong. Then it goes downhill, and at like 20 minute mark I feel like I'm not doing very well any more. And then I end up at like 5-8 at the end, which doesn't sound bad but it's 5 kills in a row then 8 deaths in a row.
It may well be that I'm playing incorrectly, but I haven't had this issue with other champions. I just feel kinda weak.
But yeah, love this champion. Feels way more fun than others I've played, kind of more apm spammable too, feels "busier" than Malzahar and Kassadin which are the other two I'd played more of.
meh imo
Your exp sounds typical considering EZ is quite weak. He is very strong early and mid but after that he isn't that great. You have to build a lot of AD on him to make him do dps lategame. That or try to dominate early and mid, hope to get fed somewhat and try to end the game before everyone else catches up exp and gold wise
i honestly never really like trinity on him considering how expensive it is. the cost for the utility of TF to me doesnt seem that awesome.
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On March 10 2012 08:33 Deadeight wrote:
Noob Question
Is the item build in the OP still a good choice?
I've been following it, and I do very well early game, going like in the last game going 5-0, and feel really strong. Then it goes downhill, and at like 20 minute mark I feel like I'm not doing very well any more. And then I end up at like 5-8 at the end, which doesn't sound bad but it's 5 kills in a row then 8 deaths in a row.
It may well be that I'm playing incorrectly, but I haven't had this issue with other champions. I just feel kinda weak.
But yeah, love this champion. Feels way more fun than others I've played, kind of more apm spammable too, feels "busier" than Malzahar and Kassadin which are the other two I'd played more of.
Ez is good but suffers from the fact that corki exists who's basically just a better version of him.
The op is from back when ADs would solo mid. It can still work but few people get bruta on Ez anymore. Also most people get zerkers on him now not cdr boots. Common Ezreal builds include bt into trinity which is stronger midgame but weaker late. Other people build him standard ad with infinity/PD.
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On March 10 2012 08:42 heroyi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:33 Deadeight wrote:
Noob Question
Is the item build in the OP still a good choice?
I've been following it, and I do very well early game, going like in the last game going 5-0, and feel really strong. Then it goes downhill, and at like 20 minute mark I feel like I'm not doing very well any more. And then I end up at like 5-8 at the end, which doesn't sound bad but it's 5 kills in a row then 8 deaths in a row.
It may well be that I'm playing incorrectly, but I haven't had this issue with other champions. I just feel kinda weak.
But yeah, love this champion. Feels way more fun than others I've played, kind of more apm spammable too, feels "busier" than Malzahar and Kassadin which are the other two I'd played more of. meh imo Your exp sounds typical considering EZ is quite weak. He is very strong early and mid but after that he isn't that great. You have to build a lot of AD on him to make him do dps lategame. That or try to dominate early and mid, hope to get fed somewhat and try to end the game before everyone else catches up exp and gold wise i honestly never really like trinity on him considering how expensive it is. the cost for the utility of TF to me doesnt seem that awesome.
Ah ok. Well that's a little disappointing as I enjoyed him, or at least I enjoy him for the first half of the game.
Is there a similar, well balanced champion I could look into?
EDIT: @overt answered my question it seems, thanks.
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Ez is definitely fun and is completely viable. So if you like him play him. He isn't as easy or faceroll as other AD carries but if you're good with him you'll carry games at any level of play. Try building him standard AD with IE/PD/LW. It's a bit easier and you'll be just as strong as most other ADs.
But yeah corki really strong too if you're looking into other ADs.
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On March 10 2012 09:10 overt wrote:
Ez is definitely fun and is completely viable. So if you like him play him. He isn't as easy or faceroll as other AD carries but if you're good with him you'll carry games at any level of play. Try building him standard AD with IE/PD/LW. It's a bit easier and you'll be just as strong as most other ADs.
But yeah corki really strong too if you're looking into other ADs.
Yeah just looked at the IEM OP and Ezreal has been picked or banned 10 times (admittedly corki has been 21 times). But if it's good enough for someone at that level it's more than good enough for me, I'll just get better and build like you say.
Should I be volunteering for mid then? I always just tend to go bottom, I'd found mid quite hard especially vs champs like ahri, as I can't hit them with Q with minions in the way. At bottom/top you can always use bushes and manoeuvre well enough.
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I have a couple of Ezreal games on my own3d.tv channel. Figure I might as well post one in here if anyone wants to watch. I'd consider myself a decent Ezreal player.
Here's a 4v5 game :D
http://www.own3d.tv/video/499697/ShakeDrizzle__Ezreal_4v5___
edit: Maybe a lil too much apen lol. Should have gone IE instead of BC that game. O well hindsight.
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I've really started to like IE on ezreal. BT dmg is obv great for your Q but nothing beats critting someone's face off. I get wriggles for my lifesteal or just 1 vamp scepter if I'm feeling like a baws.
Dblade (boots if with non-heal support)
Boots (dblade if with non-heal support)
Wriggles
Sheen
Finish Triforce
IE
LW
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Quick question. I need another AP carry in my repertoire, and I've been considering AP Ez.
About how effective is he ATM?
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On April 29 2012 11:06 Praetorial wrote:
Quick question. I need another AP carry in my repertoire, and I've been considering AP Ez.
About how effective is he ATM?
not very
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On April 29 2012 11:06 Praetorial wrote:
Quick question. I need another AP carry in my repertoire, and I've been considering AP Ez.
About how effective is he ATM?
If you need another AP Carry in your repertoire, you should learn the following, in this order:
+ Show Spoiler +Morgana, Ryze, Ahri, Cassiopeia, Brand
Once you have these under your belt, the rest don't matter at much. I say this because these are your 'God Tier' AP Mids and knowing how to play these 5 champions can usually result in knowing how to counter any AP Mid/Jungler Combo you'll go against. Especially the Morgana, Ryze, Cassiopeia.
That being said, you should learn these because they are the most versatile, hardest to kill, and easiest to play. If you're having to ask which AP to learn, I'm assuming you're under 1500 Elo, so play only these 5 champions if you want to [i]win[i]. You'll have the highest success rate.
Now... for fun AP Mids... I'd have to suggest the following:
[spoiler]
- Ziggs - Spams spells & very harass based. One of the most APM intensive champions during laning phase w/ BB.
- Twisted Fate - He' svery active. Jumps around alot, APM intensive. You'll stay busy.
- Lux - It's really satisfying gettng a Baron steal with her Ultimtae. She's also very effective in lane with Blue Buff. She falls off VERY hard in the 40+ minute games, but that will rarely happen in the Sub-1600 Elo games because people don't know how to farm properly. She's also good at picking people off who are alone in the jungle with her full combo, then you can force an easy 4v5 teamfight.
- Heimerdinger - Despite what the masses will tell you, this guy is a powerhouse with the current meta. People like playing AP Mids who get KILLS EARLY(Ryze, Brand, Veigar). These champions do HORRIBLE against Heimerdiner. Their lanes will be pushed to their tower since they can't push creep waves out easily. As long as you ward both sides of river properly, you'll shut down their AP Mids. People have also been favoring running 2 AD's lately. If that's the case Heimer also does well because he can blind both of them during teamfights. Don't underestimate this guy if you know how to play him properly.
[/spoiler]
TL;DR - Ezrael should be one of the last AP's you learn if you want to win.
(Spoiler tags, how do they work?)
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On April 29 2012 11:06 Praetorial wrote:
Quick question. I need another AP carry in my repertoire, and I've been considering AP Ez.
About how effective is he ATM?
He's okish, not as good as most but not useless, just ask shakedrizzle.
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+ Show Spoiler +On May 03 2012 05:20 Rainbow Cuddles wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2012 11:06 Praetorial wrote:
Quick question. I need another AP carry in my repertoire, and I've been considering AP Ez.
About how effective is he ATM? If you need another AP Carry in your repertoire, you should learn the following, in this order: + Show Spoiler +Morgana, Ryze, Ahri, Cassiopeia, Brand Once you have these under your belt, the rest don't matter at much. I say this because these are your 'God Tier' AP Mids and knowing how to play these 5 champions can usually result in knowing how to counter any AP Mid/Jungler Combo you'll go against. Especially the Morgana, Ryze, Cassiopeia. That being said, you should learn these because they are the most versatile, hardest to kill, and easiest to play. If you're having to ask which AP to learn, I'm assuming you're under 1500 Elo, so play only these 5 champions if you want to win. You'll have the highest success rate.
Now... for fun AP Mids... I'd have to suggest the following:
[spoiler]
- Ziggs - Spams spells & very harass based. One of the most APM intensive champions during laning phase w/ BB.
- Twisted Fate - He' svery active. Jumps around alot, APM intensive. You'll stay busy.
- Lux - It's really satisfying gettng a Baron steal with her Ultimtae. She's also very effective in lane with Blue Buff. She falls off VERY hard in the 40+ minute games, but that will rarely happen in the Sub-1600 Elo games because people don't know how to farm properly. She's also good at picking people off who are alone in the jungle with her full combo, then you can force an easy 4v5 teamfight.
- Heimerdinger - Despite what the masses will tell you, this guy is a powerhouse with the current meta. People like playing AP Mids who get KILLS EARLY(Ryze, Brand, Veigar). These champions do HORRIBLE against Heimerdiner. Their lanes will be pushed to their tower since they can't push creep waves out easily. As long as you ward both sides of river properly, you'll shut down their AP Mids. People have also been favoring running 2 AD's lately. If that's the case Heimer also does well because he can blind both of them during teamfights. Don't underestimate this guy if you know how to play him properly.
[/spoiler]
TL;DR - Ezrael should be one of the last AP's you learn if you want to win.
(Spoiler tags, how do they work?)
I'm sorry, but calling any champion APM intensive in this game is a bit silly. I'm a bit late to the whole MOBA thing, and there hasn't been a single hero or champion that I've felt like I'm just too slow to play. You're also praising heimerdinger, so I'm not sure if you're trolling or if you're genuinely new. Ryze, Brand, and Veigar can all outscale Heimer by just farming; they don't even need to kill him. There's also no way he can push out brand, and he can't push out a Veigar who maxes W first (Take ALL the wraiths!) without running both of you out of mana. He's probably more effective than AP ezreal, but you're giving him way too much credit besides that.
Morgana is highly overrated. She's VERY strong with how obnoxious black shield is, but she can't carry games unless your mid opponent has downs, and learning her is pointless because if you're at an elo where you don't know what is strong and what is not, then she's probably banned every game because people are still banning the same stuff they were 6 months ago. She gets banned because black shield is dumb as fuck, not because she's strong as 1200 elo players tend to think.
Ryze and Ahri ARE kings in solo queue; I can agree with that, and everyone knows how strong they are. Cassiopeia is also ridiculously strong, but there's a huge disparity in the amount of time you need to spend learning her to consistently do well every game compared to Ryze, Karthus, Mordekaiser, etc.
Brand is strong, but he's not played much because of how hard he falls off as soon as anyone builds any sort of MR.
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In response to the original question, building ezreal AP just feels like a waste. AP ez works, but, honestly, [i]I believe there's nothing in this game that's actually useless (besides evelynn). Riot talked about giving AP ezreal some buffs a while ago, so maybe he'll be a strong contender after that. Until then, building ezreal as anything other than AD will be suboptimal and highly disadvised unless you [i]really need to play something gimmicky.
If you want to play Ezreal mid, AD works just as fine. He's highly mobile, he can take full advantage of blue buff, and if you're lucky your lane opponent won't even have armor runes. Some people tend to call any sort of AD mids a cheesy play, but compared to talon and pantheon he's definitey a more solid choice in terms of safety. He doesn't have the burst or AoE that most mid lanes tend to bring to the table, which is why you don't really see it too often.
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I've started to get Black Cleaver first on Ez. So much fun, especially against Graves.or a Leona bot, and especially if I've got a good ganking jungler.
Boots 2HP 1Mana start
BC
Scepter
Sheen/Phage depending on if I need the slow
Lucidity Boots
Finish Triforce
PD
It does feel a bit gimmicky though, as I usually go either 12-3 or 4-6. Any thoughts?
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I love the shit out of black cleaver, but I've been doing something more like
Boots 3hp
3 dorans
AS boots
Black Cleaver (get BF sword before AS boots unless you're starved for money)
Phantom Dancer
The game usually ends before or soon after phantom dancer because black cleaver is just SO STRONK, but with this build I feel like ezreal is the best duelist of any AD carry until the late, late, late game. After the phantom dancer I'll usually go for a bloodthirster if I feel like fights are being drawn out and I need the sustain, or an infinity edge if I need the deeps and nothing but the deeps.
25% boots + 30% BC + 55% + PD + 50% 5 stacks of passive = 160% bonus attack speed. Your Q is basically another autoattack too if properly threaded. So yeah, you're just putting out 150-250 damage autos twice per second with a chance to crit, and 300 damage Q's between some of them. That's a lot of damage. (This is assuming you just have 3 doran/as boots/cleaver/PD which is the point where the other ad will have IE completed and either zeal or a finished PD)
I don't think that the vamp scepter is necessary, you have 12% lifesteal from the 3% mastery and 9% dorans blades. I feel like any ezreal builds involving triforce or CDR are gimmicky, but that's just my opinion and they're definitely usable. I strongly advise you to start trying to avoid buying them, though, if only to see how much of a crutch they can potentially be.
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I've been playing ezreal with the standard, dorans/boots opening farm up 1500 gold to get an inventory looking like boots1or2, 2xdorans, and vamp scepter. Then get either bf sword or sheen prioritizing bloodthirster if bf, or triforce if sheen depending on farm. finished build usually looks like boots, triforce, bt, pd, lw, ga/bv/qss
Hitting a q and getting a phage proc from it will allow you to secure kills that may have otherwise got away. Triforce shouldn't be overlooked.
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Well when I'm really trolling I go 3 BF sword lol. IE, BC, BT. Poppin Q for 500 is fun!
I don't think Triforce is a crutch on Ez for the following reasons:
- The slow from Phage really helps me play more aggressive, and with BC ez can Out-duel most other ADs (and some of the weaker junglers if you run exhaust like I do). The extra health (and scepter) means I can skip the dorans completely if I win my lane hard early enough to buy a BF on the first back.
- The Sheen procs add another Autoattack's worth of damage ever time you Q, and with Lucidity boots you're throwing a Q every time Sheen's proc CD is up. The Mana helps you stay in lane a little longer too if you aren't laning with soraka (which you should always be with Soraka or Cow).
- The only attack speed you really need is the Zeal at that stage thanks to Ez's passive. Going Zerks+PD is overkill because so much of your damage comes from Q, which isn't affected by AS.
Sometimes I skip PD altogether and build Zeke's Herald out of my scepter. Its a weird Item that gives me survivability, sustain, and CDR, and helps my team in midgame teamfights. It really works well to just make Ez the most dominant midgame ad carry, and carries over well into late-game when I start to fall off into more of a support role (keeping every enemy shredded to -45 armor, baiting with E, using W, and just Poke Poke Poke).
EDIT: You really don't need bloodthirster with Ezreal if you have Scepter+Sheen (and especially if you have Zekes), because you can just Poke you health back up since Q applies Lifesteal. Q range is so long there is no way for them to stop you.
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EPT
