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Poppy, The Iron Ambassador
Basic purpose of this guide is to give to the best of my knowledge a background on 2 different builds that I find effective on Poppy in different situations and aid others in learning one of the most efficient anti-carries in the game.
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AP Poppy
Summoner Skills: Flash/Ghost (While ignite + poppy ult is nice AP Poppy is reliant on positioning for maximum burst but ignite/flash ignite/ghost can suffice)
Masteries: 9/0/21
Runes:
Quints: HP (Movespeed, AP are fine)
Red: Mpen
Yellow: Manaregen/lvl (dodge, hp/lvl, ap/lvl are fine)
Blue: Ap/lvl
Skill Order: E,Q,W,E,E,R, Q (Note: Don't lvl Q past 2 until you have to since its scaling is awful and the bonus damage cap will not be used)
Item Build:
Doran's Shield
Boots
Sheen
Sorc/Merc (CDR boots not that great on hero with majority of damage reliant on initial burst)
Deathfire
Lich Bane
Deathcap
Playstyle/Tips:
-Pick Poppy when you have a strong lane partner, don't just blindly pick her when you know you are laning with someone who is weak as well. Best lane partners for Poppy (and lots of heroes -_-) would be Janna, Taric, Alistar.
-Learn to be patient in lane with Poppy, you don't need alot of farm just take what you can get and watch map for opportunities.
-Don't go too overboard on chasing if you can't guarantee the kill you want to stay in fight if possible
-Let your team initiate fights dont just blow summoners and run in first to ult their carry just to have them flash/ghost away. You want to wait for opportunities to use your team's cc if possible.
-Their carry will hate you with a passion enjoy it
Trinity Poppy
Summoner Skills: Flash/Ghost
Masteries: 9/0/21
Runes:
Quints: HP
Red: Mpen
Yellow: Manaregen/lvl
Blue: CDR/lvl (goal of build is to stack cdr and be super annoying tank magic resist is fine as well)
Skill Order: Same as AP
Item Build:
Doran's Shield or HP Pendant
Philo Stone
Merc Treads (CDR boots or boots3 can be fine if they lack cc for some reason)
Sheen - Tri Force
FoN
(if game still going on..)
Shurelya's Reverie
Randuins Omen/Veil/situational tank item etc.
Madred's Bloodrazer
Playstyle/Tips:
-I use this build over AP when the other team has alot of support (Shen, Janna, Zilean are a AP Poppy's worst nightmare) and I want to focus on having strong sustained damage with cdr and tankiness. You can play much more ballsy with this build.
-Your MS will be insane, chasing is easy mode.
-Don't ult right away make them put some focus on you first then bust out your ult when you have a position to E their carry into wall or ult a tank and leave fight if it's a lost cause.
My first guide on here let me know what else you'd like to see!
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Looks great, Spud. More or less exactly how I play Poppy.
I've always wondered if there is some way to work Rylai's into either her AP or maybe a hybrid Poppy build: at level 5 Q you would get a permanent slow on the target of your choice, and the extra health synergizes well with her passive.
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Do you think Poppy could be viable as a tank? If so, how would you build her?
I recently bought Poppy and I really like playing a tanky kind of style (yes, I am a noob).
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I like 9/6/15 masteries on Poppy for the MPen, 2 SoS, 3 MSpd. I don't think she needs the higher ranks in utility all that much.
For runes I go MPen/Armor/MResL/MSpd. You have to manage your mana with these runes, but usually it works out just fine for me.
I go EQEW, R>E>Q>W simply because you still get the lower Q cooldown.
I find Poppy to be really strong with just about any lane partner (except for supports who think they can just stay back and occasionally heal/shield, which sadly is like 95% of the supports on EU). Best choices are obviously people with stuns, burst or strong skillshots.
Key concepts to laning Poppy:
- Keep the lane at a point where your enemies have to move close to a wall to lasthit. This basically is the job of your ally because you will be camping the brush most of the time.
- If you camp the brush and an enemy comes to facecheck on you, you can't knock him into the wall on the other side. You want to move out of the brush and knock him into the wall next to the brush. However when you move out, you lose vision and might not be able to target your enemy. It happens quite a lot that you E someone and he ends up in a brush while you are outside, at least in my experience. To fix this, your ally should move into the brush when you move out of it to E the enemy. I occasionally even use wards in the brush.
How do you guys deal with Banshee's Veil on carries as Poppy? Unless someone else pops it for me it really messes me up. I don't want to use either of DFG, Ignite, R to pop it, I can't really use Q because it's melee, E seems to bug out (doesn't pop Veil reliably it seems) plus I won't be able to chase/kill properly with E on cooldown.
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I think Poppy can be skilled in many ways, recently I've been playing Poppy as more of a roaming/counterjungling character using the Trinity build and I've been maxing W first (EQWWWR. R>W>E/Q). +35 damage/armor and 25% movespeed is is ridiculous for roaming (it also helps out her farm for those farming lulls).
Also I like the super lame 2 philostone->trinity build for mad regen.
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Ok - here is my opinion on this guide:
AP - the best AP Poppy build goes for DFG asap, not sheen or any other items.
Build is usually:
Dorans
Kages pick
DFG
Boots
Sheen
Another AP item (depends on game)
Lich Bane
AD/Triforce - You are delaying sheen way too much with this build, no wonder you feel Q is lackluster.
Any AD you build add a LOT to your damage I have been building IE a lot lately as Poppy dosn't benefit as much as you would think from madreds.
Skill order - E-Q-Q-W-Q-R. Then favor R>Q>W>E. Only reason to get more than one level in E is if you are super aggressive and need the CDR (You rarely get to use more than one in a fight, even with full CDR).
Runes - Great, but consider using speed quints, as health is one of the worst stats to get on Poppy. (They are still great for early game)
Defensive items - Poppys passive keeps her alive from most damage, and mitigates the effectiveness of all resists. MR is important though, and FoN is a great choise on Poppy. If you need armor, Thornmail is awesome (passive works with her ult).
POPPY IS NOT A TANK
Now for my Poppy build:
Runes: Magic pen/damage marks, Mana per 5/level seals, CDR blues (per level or flat), Speed quints.
Masteries: 1/8/21 going for SoS and exhaust mastery.
Item build:
Rejuv bead (only if you REALLY know your Poppy - else dorans shield)
Sheen/merc threads (only boots first if you are low on money)
Merc threads/Sheen
Infinity edge/Defensive Item (Depending on game state)
Defensive item/Infinity edge
If the game goes on, I build whatever I need most, usually getting ghostblade at some point.
Skill order: E first then R>Q>W>E
I might post later with some insight to how Poppy should be played.
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Well when I do play poppy as AP I go:
regrowth pendant + 1 pot
faerie charm, kages pick, faerie charm, boots of choice, sheen, dfg, lichbane, shurelias.
After this I go for something like rylai, FoN or deathcap.
with AD/tank I open
regrowth + pot
faerie charm, (Hog x2 depends if its gonna be a slugfest, if its gonna be action noone stop from start ill skip em), boots1, sheen, boots of choice, triforce, FoN, rhanduins, ghostblade/shurelias/abyssal ??
I dont really play poppy that much anymore.. So idk if my builds work or not.
Just a note; poppys E scales 1,2 if you hit the wall, and 0,6 if you dont.
Also you need to add blitz for best lane partners with poppy, that lane is sooo fun ! <3
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Poppys E scales 0.8 if you hit the wall, 0.4 if you don't...
The general build for Poppy is: AP - Rush DFG, AD - Rush Sheen, Tank - POPPY IS NOT A TANK.
Everything else is more stylistic, but rushing DFG or Sheen is the most effective way of playing Poppy. Getting G/5 items is ok as Poppy is a horrible farmer, but not before DFG/Sheen.
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On January 16 2011 21:11 Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
AP - the best AP Poppy build goes for DFG asap, not sheen or any other items.
Sheen gives you the much needed mana pool and sustained damage behind q. I'd rather not wait for 3k gold to start doing anything 1260 will do.
On January 16 2011 21:11 Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
AD/Triforce - You are delaying sheen way too much with this build, no wonder you feel Q is lackluster.
Philo boots sheen isn't delayed at all
On January 16 2011 21:11 Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
Any AD you build add a LOT to your damage I have been building IE a lot lately as Poppy dosn't benefit as much as you would think from madreds.
Skill order - E-Q-Q-W-Q-R. Then favor R>Q>W>E. Only reason to get more than one level in E is if you are super aggressive and need the CDR (You rarely get to use more than one in a fight, even with full CDR).
The point of Madred's is it's a great item to buy when you want it as a sole dps item along with tank items. Going AD would be pretty dumb at that point when I have 0 armor pen to back it up
5 sec cd with full cdr will get uses. Q gains 20 dmg per lvl and 1 sec less on the cd. In most cases I'll need the E to keep going with a chase or provide the opportunity for more Q's so I find lvling it's better scaling damage and less cd is more useful.
On January 16 2011 21:11 Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
POPPY IS NOT A TANK
The idea is to use the magic dmg from the trinity procs on the Q to the fullest by investing in tank cdr items.
On January 16 2011 21:11 Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
Now for my Poppy build:
Runes: Magic pen/damage marks, Mana per 5/level seals, CDR blues (per level or flat), Speed quints.
Masteries: 1/8/21 going for SoS and exhaust mastery.
Item build:
Rejuv bead (only if you REALLY know your Poppy - else dorans shield)
Sheen/merc threads (only boots first if you are low on money)
Merc threads/Sheen
Infinity edge/Defensive Item (Depending on game state)
Defensive item/Infinity edge
The reason why this build won't work is because if you are going to go down the AD route Poppy will need a ghostblade/ie to start hitting that insane burst from the crits. You won't be going sheen or rushing ie first. That is just dumb with poppy's base attack speed. You will need the ghostblade first.
AD Poppy build would be more Ghostblade/Boots - zeal - IE - Last Whisper - Phantom Dancer
No reason to go sheen since you won't be using Q because your auto attacks will start to hit harder since they are backed by armor pen.
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On January 17 2011 02:33 mrgerry wrote:Sheen gives you the much needed mana pool and sustained damage behind q. I'd rather not wait for 3k gold to start doing anything 1260 will do. The point of AP Poppy is not sustained damage - its burst, and DFG gives you CDR in addition to everything else.Philo boots sheen isn't delayed at all
Yes it is - I get Shen on my first B (unless I'm underfarmed from harassment)The point of Madred's is it's a great item to buy when you want it as a sole dps item along with tank items. Going AD would be pretty dumb at that point when I have 0 armor pen to back it up I see your point - I'm just making sure that people don't see madreds as the end-of-all damage item for Poppy. It really only makes sense to buy it agains tanks, as Poppy doesn't have an aspd stereoid. I used the madreds build a lot about 6 months ago, so I know its potent5 sec cd with full cdr will get uses. Q gains 20 dmg per lvl and 1 sec less on the cd. In most cases I'll need the E to keep going with a chase or provide the opportunity for more Q's so I find lvling it's better scaling damage and less cd is more useful. Look again - leveling Q reduces cooldown and increases damage by some 40-50 per level (can't remember exactly). I know the base damage only gets 20 more, but the max damage gets buffed quite good as well, and I stand by my point that you rarely get to use E 2 times in the same fight, unless you are hardcore chasing.The idea is to use the magic dmg from the trinity procs on the Q to the fullest by investing in tank cdr items. I'm just saying that you should back off on the beefyness. Poppy's passive makes defensive items a bit meh to buy, as they have diminishing returns. You still need them, but that build just seems too tanky.The reason why this build won't work is because if you are going to go down the AD route Poppy will need a ghostblade/ie to start hitting that insane burst from the crits. You won't be going sheen or rushing ie first. That is just dumb with poppy's base attack speed. You will need the ghostblade first. I was surprised the first time I looked at Poppys aspd at lvl 12ish - Its actually higher than you would think (given her horrible base aspd). Shen IS A MUST on AD poppy. I think the only reason you think its bad is because you view Q is bad. IE + Shen gives a mean Q at lvl 14-16 (Possible time to get both in a good game), outdamaging even lichbane procs on AP poppy.AD Poppy build would be more Ghostblade/Boots - zeal - IE - Last Whisper - Phantom Dancer AD Poppy focusses on splitting damage between physical and magical damage. I might consider getting Ghostblade before IE in the future. It semms easier to get as its components are cheaper, and the active is just sweet on Poppy.No reason to go sheen since you won't be using Q because your auto attacks will start to hit harder since they are backed by armor pen. Wrong - sorry. On AD Poppy your Q is basically a double damage hit, doing magic damage, punishes health stacking and resets your autoattacks as a bonus.
Some basic reasoning for my arguments. You seem to vastly underestimate Q, and as a result your entire take on Poppy is quite loopsided. Q is the main source of damage for Poppy, and is the first thing you max. 20+ damage is only the base damage on the skill, add the very nifty increase to max damage and the numbers start looking better. E may add more damage in base numbers, but the increased max damage makes Q deal more damage in all situations (noone has low enough health at level 9 to prefer E over Q for damage).
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Sheen.
Shen is a champion, not an item. Damnit.
On January 17 2011 03:32 Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
The point of AP Poppy is not sustained damage - its burst, and DFG gives you CDR in addition to everything else.
CDR has nothing to do with burst at all.
The damage cap on Q is usually higher than the actual bonus damage you get from the 8%. If you get rank 2 Q you're good until enemies break the 2k HP mark, which is quite late into the game (tanks are not your targets, and even if they are, rank 3 Q deals with anything but lategame Vlad/Cho). Q is primarily leveled for the cooldown.
Poppy has bad scaling with crit. Most of her combat tactics revolve around positioning for E and Q. Q doesn't crit (and also doesn't apply Razor Procs, wtf). Poppy has decent ASpd yes, but IE gains most of its strength from the fact that it scales so incredibly well with other offensive items. On a champ like Poppy who has huge farming issues you can't get the followup items to IE in an average game.
Why would you play DPS Poppy over Tryndamere/Olaf anyways?
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I'm thinking about picking up poppy, killing people in 2 seconds while their team cant really do anything to you sounds super fun.
I'm kind of pumped for this thread because it might bait a nony post.
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Sorry - was going to edit the point about max damage, but TL forums just freaked out...
Additional points in Q reduces cooldown a lot, and the fact that it is quite spammable makes up for the slightly worse scaling. Whats more, you want that CDR on Q more than anything, as it is your main source of damage (E is too unreliable as a damaging spell). Sheen procs are everything on Poppy, and more levels in Q means more sheen procs.
Its true that the CDR on DFG have nothing to do with burst, but it is still a great stat on AP Poppy. Getting sheen first is not bad on AP Poppy either, rushing DFG just seems more effective overall.
Poppys scaling with crit is fine. Contrary to what most people thing Q DOES crit - but only the base attack part (with IE and sheen Q crits for about 900). Whats more, she has (mediocre) AD sterioid, making crit a fairly good stat.
The reason to pick Poppy over Tryndamere is the immunity to stun and the fact that she got a better early and midgame. Olaf - well Olaf got no good gap closer or stun, but their role is pretty much the same (I play Olaf too).
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On January 17 2011 04:16 Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
Sorry - was going to edit the point about max damage, but TL forums just freaked out...
Additional points in Q reduces cooldown a lot, and the fact that it is quite spammable makes up for the slightly worse scaling. Whats more, you want that CDR on Q more than anything, as it is your main source of damage (E is too unreliable as a damaging spell). Sheen procs are everything on Poppy, and more levels in Q means more sheen procs.
Its true that the CDR on DFG have nothing to do with burst, but it is still a great stat on AP Poppy. Getting sheen first is not bad on AP Poppy either, rushing DFG just seems more effective overall.
Poppys scaling with crit is fine. Contrary to what most people thing Q DOES crit - but only the base attack part (with IE and sheen Q crits for about 900). Whats more, she has (mediocre) AD sterioid, making crit a fairly good stat.
The reason to pick Poppy over Tryndamere is the immunity to stun and the fact that she got a better early and midgame. Olaf - well Olaf got no good gap closer or stun, but their role is pretty much the same (I play Olaf too).
I know it's terribly off topic, but I've never seen you before and, literally 5 minutes ago, I just finished reading the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy for the second time.
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I've been a bit passive on the LoL forum, untill I saw the Poppy thread. She is my main, and I have been playing her since her release, so I thought I would have a few things to say about her.
But yea, HHGTTG FTW
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You didn't really respond to his concerns on crit completely. As he said, if you go an IE route to get its full effect you will need other dps items along with it and poppy tends to never finish more than 2 high tier items in an average game.
My basic concerns with going AD is basically you are trying to do the same thing AP Poppy does with more expensive items. AD you aren't that tank to really do much other than try to burst down the carry during the duration of your ult then have to leave fight.
As for E v Q, the damage scalings are pretty similar between the two with E coming out ahead. I just feel a shorter cd on E will be more useful then Q in a majority of cases. Having a shorter cd on q will only be useful in a straight up fight if they are not running while E will provide you the opportunity to have more chances to Q the enemy and allow your teammate to use the stun/push as well.
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By the way, since the IE nerf, GB/B (Ghostblade + Brutalizer) yields more DPS than IE in some interesting cases. First of all, obviously during the time until you finish the item(s). GB/B parts are awesome on their own, IE is rather weak before you finish it. Then, when you finish those items around lvl 12-16 and have APen runes, you (almost) deal true damage to squishies without armor items. At this point GB/B comes out ahead by a few %.
However, this is all ignoring the CDR and the GB active! While the active is on, you can get something like 30% more DPS than with IE. Not too shabby on a champ that revolves around an 8 second ultimate.
Poppy scales well with CDR and the GB active is good on her. She rarely gets enough money to buy more items (GB/B scales worse than IE with additional items). The APen applies to Sheen procs. Therefore I would always get GB/B over IE on her.
And if you go the AD path, get those APen runes instead of MPen. They are so much stronger. Actually I think I'll start using APen marks on Poppy as well, even though I go Sheen>DFG>game is over.
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Pretty much sums up the E vs Q concern there.
After having seen the number through, I think E is better for AP whereas Q is better for AD (E adds to burst, Q adds to overall damage).
And AD is NOT about doing the same as AP. AD is less burst but more sustained damage (the reason why Q is better for AD).
The point of AD is to get 6-8 seconds to wreck havoc on the opposing team in a teamfight uncontested, and be usefull in cleanup. The point of AP is to obliterate the carry, removing the main source of damage from the opposing team, and then be useless for a few seconds.
Different roles - AD is played very different from AP. I play AD because it suits my playstyle more.
Oh and if you use you ult on their carry, and then burst him/her as AD Poppy as a standart, you are quite simply an idiot (Thast what AP Poppy does). You need to use the full duration of her ult as AD, as the inability to be CC'ed or damaged is much more valuable in almost every teamfight when you go AD. My tactic is usually to ult my second or third target (supports anyone?). That way I can still get the +40% damage when the first target is dead, and you go for the guy you ult'ed.
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as Poppy IMO is far more about positioning and playstyle than items, I thought I would add this to the guide.
Playing as Poppy.
Poppy relies on positioning, speed and quick reactions to get her job done. In contrast to many other damage dealers, she needs surprisingly few items to do her job. Many new Poppy players will quickly learn how to do the infamous "wall smash", but learning the depth of Poppy takes experience with the character.
AP Poppy
When playing AP Poppy your goal in teamfights is simple: Find the Carry, and blow him/her up. To do this however, you need a good position. Usually you need to be ambushing the carry to get close fast, or if that is not a possibility, try to aviod the early cc in the teamfight (entering a bit later) and save your ult for when you are close enough to your target. This late ult allows you to conceal who your target is, or switch targets if the carry runs.
Do not switch targets after you have placed you ult unless you absolutely have to - indecision is punished hard when you play AP.
I have not played AP Poppy myself, so I cannot give any specific tricks to useage of DFQ, or burst improvement.
AD Poppy
AD Poppy is quite a different champion to play, simply because of the differnt way the damage output is distributed.
When playing AP, you have one and only one goal in teamfights, but as AD your goals are more situational. Quick switches of targets, saving charge to disrupt important enemies and general damage dealing duties are among the things AD Poppy do for the team that AP cannot (or rather, doing this would be gimping AP Poppy's burst).
As AD Poppy you will be one of the first persons to enter battle, come from an unexpected angle, mess up the opposing teams positioning or do whatever else might be usefull. There are no strict goals in team battles, as you do not nessesarily have one predifined goal to destroy. The tactics are many, but here are some general tactics to follow:
- Go for the carry. Yes this is a legit tactic, just remember that if that is your only purpose in battle, you are better suited playing AP.
- Use DI on someone else than your primary target. AP focusses on the damage increase, AD tries to make use of the 6-8 second invincibility. The better you get at estimating battles, the better you are at choosing who to ult, and who to target.
- Placing ultimate on chars with low damage, no hard cc or who have expended thier cc is a great tactic for staying alive in a slugfest.
- If your team has a primary target on the enemy team, try to avoid using DI on this target - if he/she dies in 2 seconds, you have just wasted 6 seconds of shielding, and the potential to do more damage in battle. You can still focus the target, but remember that an ultimate could be wasted.
- Delay DI untill an enemy overcommits. You may or may not want to target this enemy, but being out of position and having a Poppy ult pop can make even the most organized teams panic.
Tanky Poppy
Poppy is not a tank.
But she can have her uses as a secondary tank (Mundo style). The reasons for doing this could be that your team needs more beef, or that the opposing team is scared of you and focus you in every engagement (happens more often than you think). Whatever the reason, you should now focus on soaking damage, so try to delay your ult untill it has a clear purpose (initiating with R->E is an exeption).
When playing tanky Poppy, you should remember that her passive mitigates the effectiveness of most defensive stats (base magic resist is only 30, so this is an exeption). From this simple fact you realise that you should try to get the items for their passives rather than their stats. FoN is a great item on Poppy, as more speed is never bad on her (and health regen is not a bad stat on Poppy). Thornmail is godly against a hard physical carry (works with ult). Guardian angels revive is actually a free 1up on Poppy because of her passive (increases the effective health gain).
Usually the tanky build is more a diversion from the normal damage builds, and you should still get the core damage item(s).
This was not meant as a secondary guide to Poppy, but as an addition to the playstyle section.
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On January 17 2011 03:56 spinesheath wrote:Sh een. Shen is a champion, not an item. Damnit. Show nested quote +On January 17 2011 03:32 Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
The point of AP Poppy is not sustained damage - its burst, and DFG gives you CDR in addition to everything else. CDR has nothing to do with burst at all. The damage cap on Q is usually higher than the actual bonus damage you get from the 8%. If you get rank 2 Q you're good until enemies break the 2k HP mark, which is quite late into the game (tanks are not your targets, and even if they are, rank 3 Q deals with anything but lategame Vlad/Cho). Q is primarily leveled for the cooldown. Poppy has bad scaling with crit. Most of her combat tactics revolve around positioning for E and Q. Q doesn't crit (and also doesn't apply Razor Procs, wtf). Poppy has decent ASpd yes, but IE gains most of its strength from the fact that it scales so incredibly well with other offensive items. On a champ like Poppy who has huge farming issues you can't get the followup items to IE in an average game. Why would you play DPS Poppy over Tryndamere/Olaf anyways?
Poppys Q do crit afaik. The bonus damage doesn't crit. But the normal blow can crit. AD Poppys benefit from crit.
While I always play AP, Im inclined to think that sheen - IE could be useful for AD Poppys.
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EPT
