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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On February 10 2012 05:08 Slayer91 wrote: 2 Damage stances, only need 1! Having both marginally improves damage compared to the cost of putting 5 points. Dunno what's unmanly about 5 in turtle and just destroying everyone. Yea, I agree, I'm just saying, smurfing with Phoenix/Tiger udyr is pretty hilarious. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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anmolsinghmzn2009
India1783 Posts
On February 10 2012 04:24 Requizen wrote: Tiger has slightly better dueling capabilities. It has stronger "burst" for ganking, and the AS helps take down towers. It's a bit more of an offensive playstyle, but the clear speed is lower and it has much lower pushing/farming power if you're just covering a lane. It can work, and is better than like 90% of other junglers, but Phoenix is even better. How about opening with a couple points in tiger, but then maxing phoenix lategame? I like phoenix but everyone in soloqueue keeps whining about the lack of successful ganks & doesn't realize their jungler didn't get any of his buffs after the first two  | ||
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Kyo Yuy
United States1286 Posts
On February 10 2012 12:32 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote: How about opening with a couple points in tiger, but then maxing phoenix lategame? I like phoenix but everyone in soloqueue keeps whining about the lack of successful ganks & doesn't realize their jungler didn't get any of his buffs after the first two People in solo queue whine all the time. Don't let what they say guide how you play. I don't see why you as the jungler can't hold on to red buff. The AD carry has more use for it late game sure, but during the laning phase and when you're still actively seeking ganks? At that time you should hold on to red. If you must give up both those buffs though, maybe go a Phage. Alternatively just AFK farm because you're Udyr and you can outfarm the vast majority of junglers. If they're calling for ganks and they just push their lanes super hard, maxing Tiger stance isn't going to make the gank any more viable because Udyr still has to get in their face to do damage. | ||
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anmolsinghmzn2009
India1783 Posts
I still wanna try out tiger anyway - the animation for tiger looks so boss haha. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
That being said, the ganks are hella sick. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23385 Posts
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On February 10 2012 21:27 Slayer91 wrote: Pheonix ganks are similarly as good to tiger ganks in situations where you stick to him for a while. It's why I tend to gank top lane a lot. Generally the trick to mid or bot ganks is to get as much damage before they flash away and tiger works great for that. Pheonix ganks with red are really strong when you have some ganking space and enough movement speed and decent marine micro (orb walking?) no its not orb walking. the physicality of it is similar but the technical background of orbwalking comes from the way how the wc3 engine certain 'on hit' effects handled and from the fact that you can cancel the backswing of an attack animation. In lol the attack animations work more similar to starcraft than warcraft 3. So its more like the marine micro you mentioned. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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mordek
United States12705 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23385 Posts
I just go Wolves-->blue-->Wraiths-->Wolves-->Red-->Wraiths-->golems. Too many junglers are on the same speed as you because of intial help that stealing wraiths is generally not worth it. Especially if they have say cass mid who you easily FB you if you're not careful. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 11 2012 00:01 mordek wrote: I almost always go wolves -> blue -> their wraiths then depending on who the jungler is wait to steal red/kill jungler. If I don't feel confident dueling in jungle or they are just as fast I steal big wraith and continue on my merry way. Stealing wraiths that early isn't worth the risk anymore. The timing information on his wraiths is worthless because you can't realistically be back there in a minute, the XP isn't worth the fact that you have to round all the way into his jungle and back, and even if you feel confident in your ability to duel him, you rely heavily on your mid-laner to not derp and get to the fight in reasonable time compared to their mid. I said this before the jungle changes, but 90% of the value of stealing camps in the old jungle was being able to have the timing information for the camp and control when it will be up, therefore manipulating your opponent's ability to farm. That information is basically worthless now because of the faster timers, so likewise, small camp counterjungling is of limited usefulness. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23385 Posts
On February 11 2012 00:59 Requizen wrote: So, just as a general rule, what is the "goal" of invasions? Is it worth more to steal their buffs or kill the jungler, or should you only go when you have a shot at both? Invading is good in certain situations, for example you counter gank and kill them. You can reliably just camp his red jungle. You have fresh double buffs and as udyr that means you are basically invincible and only flash will save them which presumably they burned already. Basically he can only farm wolves without risking death and he probably won't know that before it's too late. Random invasions for me are mostly to get into position to gank from behind in a lane, pick up some XP along the way and if I find their jungler I kill them. The general rule of invading is that you taking 1 camp creates a 2 camp xp difference. The problem is he probably wouldn't have got it anyway if he was ganking and you would have gained more taking your camp and getting to your nex faster. Unless you can guarantee he needs the camp and it's unlikely he'll go to your jungle then it's not that good. | ||
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mordek
United States12705 Posts
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On February 11 2012 01:31 mordek wrote: Wolves, blue, their wraiths isn't exactly out of the way though. Since I'm phoenix I'm just mowing through the jungle so I don't see how any extra camp on my first clear is bad. Also at my level, messing with the jungler in solo queue just helps from a morale standpoint. If wraiths really isn't worth it I'll be happy to change my ways with people actually leashing like they should nowadays, it's pretty much impossible to make it to their wraiths significantly ahead of them. I was jungling udyr vs. fiddle a couple days ago and the fiddle made it to their wraiths like 2 seconds after me... WTF. | ||
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mordek
United States12705 Posts
On February 11 2012 01:39 Mogwai wrote: with people actually leashing like they should nowadays, it's pretty much impossible to make it to their wraiths significantly ahead of them. I was jungling udyr vs. fiddle a couple days ago and the fiddle made it to their wraiths like 2 seconds after me... WTF. Dang... well I don't run into that in my games but of course I'm much much lower ^^ I usually do the wraithjack vs amumu, fiddle, etc. Maybe he skipped wolves and had a good leash? | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 11 2012 01:43 mordek wrote: Dang... well I don't run into that in my games but of course I'm much much lower ^^ I usually do the wraithjack vs amumu, fiddle, etc. Maybe he skipped wolves and had a good leash? Why would he skip Wolves? Every jungler in the game can finish Wolves before 1:55 with help. How fast someone gets to Wraiths has absolutely nothing to do with which jungler they're playing, and everything to do with how much help they get on Wolves/blue. | ||
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mordek
United States12705 Posts
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