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On February 11 2012 01:27 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 00:59 Requizen wrote:
So, just as a general rule, what is the "goal" of invasions? Is it worth more to steal their buffs or kill the jungler, or should you only go when you have a shot at both? Invading is good in certain situations, for example you counter gank and kill them. You can reliably just camp his red jungle. You have fresh double buffs and as udyr that means you are basically invincible and only flash will save them which presumably they burned already. Basically he can only farm wolves without risking death and he probably won't know that before it's too late. Random invasions for me are mostly to get into position to gank from behind in a lane, pick up some XP along the way and if I find their jungler I kill them. The general rule of invading is that you taking 1 camp creates a 2 camp xp difference. The problem is he probably wouldn't have got it anyway if he was ganking and you would have gained more taking your camp and getting to your nex faster. Unless you can guarantee he needs the camp and it's unlikely he'll go to your jungle then it's not that good.
Hm, so would you say it's better to invade against farm heavy junglers like GP? Against junglers like that, who don't gank as often, stealing camps is more advantageous, imo.
Also, when you say "counter-gank", do you just mean going to support a lane that gets ganked, or do you mean more like trying to catch the enemy jungle as he runs away and killing him after he leaves?
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Counter gank is either guessing that they will gank or just seeing them with a ward and being around the area and basically creating a 2v2 fight in a gank.
GP isn't a farm heavy jungler. At least in europe. He's used to gank lanes with his Q guaraneteeing some damage and steal some lane XP/gold if it works out. (and if he cant gank at least he has ulti, but ganking with ulti is even better) He farms really slowly, but I wouldn't want to invade him. If we both just farm, I'm going to be 2x more effective. Meanwhile GP is strong enough early game that invading isn't that favourably because he's quite strong before he falls behind in levels and he slows you for his mid lane.
The only time GP jungle carries is when he gets lots of kills, from my experience.
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Do I still get a wit's end after wriggles when I try tiger jungle? Or just go tanky after wriggles?
Also, say I activate tiger stance and immediately switch to bear. Will the tiger first strike still proc even though I switched stances?
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activating tiger stance before bear, getting the proc and stun at the same time, then activating tiger again a second time is pretty much the key to doing burst damage on udyr
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On February 12 2012 15:13 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
Do I still get a wit's end after wriggles when I try tiger jungle? Or just go tanky after wriggles?
Also, say I activate tiger stance and immediately switch to bear. Will the tiger first strike still proc even though I switched stances?
Usually, yeah. Wits end IS tanky, anyway. The other only DPS item that you'd want is trinity.
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been getting spirit visage after wits, if they have alot of magic damage, is it not worth it to do?
I dont know if it effects turtle, but the cdr and extra hp/mr are nice.
would it be better to just go aegis?
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I feel like just getting a negatron is better than spirit visage if they have a lot of magic damage. It's cheaper and its effects are much more immediate.
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On February 13 2012 13:50 arb wrote:
been getting spirit visage after wits, if they have alot of magic damage, is it not worth it to do?
I dont know if it effects turtle, but the cdr and extra hp/mr are nice.
would it be better to just go aegis?
i used to always get spirit visage since it's a cheap source of magic res, cdr, and some hp. sometimes it's better to get hog or negatron tho.
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Yeah, I could see going straight for a Negatron, but as far as a "all around" or "standard" (and take that as you will) build goes, SV is just a cheap, efficient option that is good all around and too nice to pass up. I'll go Negatron if I feel I need a huge amount of MR, but you're already getting a lot from Merc's (if you get it) + Wit's, so you're more getting SV for the many stats plus the MR. That's the way I see it anyway. I feel very safe in the early/mid game with just Boots2/Wit's/Randuins/SV.
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if you have a bow already and suddenly find yourself with 3k in the bank, and would like to spend it all at once on something flashy, what do you get, bloodrazor or bt? no pussy defense items please
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On February 14 2012 02:01 zulu_nation8 wrote:
if you have a bow already and suddenly find yourself with 3k in the bank, and would like to spend it all at once on something flashy, what do you get, bloodrazor or bt? no pussy defense items please
BT and then max tiger/turtle. Shit's not even fair.
If you're a doucher and want to be all phoenixy, get ionic and wits.
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On February 14 2012 01:59 Requizen wrote:
Yeah, I could see going straight for a Negatron, but as far as a "all around" or "standard" (and take that as you will) build goes, SV is just a cheap, efficient option that is good all around and too nice to pass up. I'll go Negatron if I feel I need a huge amount of MR, but you're already getting a lot from Merc's (if you get it) + Wit's, so you're more getting SV for the many stats plus the MR. That's the way I see it anyway. I feel very safe in the early/mid game with just Boots2/Wit's/Randuins/SV.
Spirit visage isn't exactly efficient. I bought it once recently and regretted it. Aegis feels SO much stronger. If you want MR, get either aegis or force of nature. If they literally have almost no AD damage but you want randuins for their AD carry get Force of nature. High amounts of magic damage are going to do tons of damage anyway, force of nature helps regen that in long fights more than spirit visage will help you. You should already have lots of hp from randuins/shurelyas/possibly aegis//possibly phage.
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Visage is only good in CDR intensive builds. If that 10% CDR isn't making or breaking you, it's always better to get aegis.
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On February 14 2012 01:59 Requizen wrote:
Yeah, I could see going straight for a Negatron, but as far as a "all around" or "standard" (and take that as you will) build goes, SV is just a cheap, efficient option that is good all around and too nice to pass up. I'll go Negatron if I feel I need a huge amount of MR, but you're already getting a lot from Merc's (if you get it) + Wit's, so you're more getting SV for the many stats plus the MR. That's the way I see it anyway. I feel very safe in the early/mid game with just Boots2/Wit's/Randuins/SV.
I honestly don't find SV to be that great of an item on Udyr when I'm jungling. There's just too many items I'd rather have over it for its costs like Shurelia's, Aegis, building up to Randuin's, etc. If I need more MR on top of Merc's + Wit's then I'd rather just buy a negatron and just deny magic damage completely.
edit: zzz two posts between me reading + posting.
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I consider spirit visage better on someone like vlad who benefits from the passive on it with the extra spell vamp and healing he gets and he needs the CDR also.
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I think visage is fine on like, nunu, ww, maokai, pretty much anyone who's going FH as a core defensive item. If you're getting FH and have 21 defensive spec, you'll get close to CDR cap with visage + FH. But then again, Reverie is really good on some of those guys too, so SV's niche feels really tiny to me at this point.
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Meh, I think I've just gotten so used to it since I started basing my build off of TOO's Solomid guide, in which he considers it core. I never really feel like it's money wasted, but again, I'm not the best player or anything like that.
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Oddone is NOT a good udyr player.
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I think I can safely assume that he's better than me, though.
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slayer91 has my personal endorsement as the best udyr player in the world
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EPT
