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On January 31 2011 01:59 TL Blazeraid wrote:
Skill order: E first. Depending on how the level 1 fight went will decide your second spell- Q if you can out at a disadvantage, W if you're ahead. If at any point lane becomes too hard get another level of consume on an even level. R>E>W>Q. Typically: EWEQER
i assume this is 'came', just a typo to fix
otherwise, looks great. i tried out solo nunu before and failed miserably, probably kus i did put any pressure until 6, at which point i started getting beat out of lane and was forced to level consume 2 extra points and ended up low on gold and zoned :[
this makes me want to try again tho
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I have found that nunu is splendidly fast at jungling in certain aspects, such as doing the blue/red buffs, but is atrocious in terms of finishing off the smaller creeps, relatively speaking. I.e. you're spending half a second killing the thing that gives you 80% of your exp, and wasting 8 seconds cleaning up the thing that gives you the rest.
What I would like to try out is maybe have someone like corki or sivir mid, so that I can just eat the big wraith and let the mid cleanup after me. It could also be ashe helping to speed up the clear time with a volley. It would speed up his clear time tremendously, and while it would give him slightly less exp overall, it would also give him a LOT more time to gank/counterjungle.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 18 2011 00:07 Juicyfruit wrote:
I have found that nunu is splendidly fast at jungling in certain aspects, such as doing the blue/red buffs, but is atrocious in terms of finishing off the smaller creeps, relatively speaking. I.e. you're spending half a second killing the thing that gives you 80% of your exp, and wasting 8 seconds cleaning up the thing that gives you the rest.
What I would like to try out is maybe have someone like corki or sivir mid, so that I can just eat the big wraith and let the mid cleanup after me. It could also be ashe helping to speed up the clear time with a volley. It would speed up his clear time tremendously, and while it would give him slightly less exp overall, it would also give him a LOT more time to gank/counterjungle.
The biggest issue I see with this is that it makes it so that your first jungle clear leaves you at level 3, rather than giving you level 4. While that's technically "faster", it sort of limits the options you have with regard to what you can do once that clear is done.
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Something like:
Blue -> clear wolves -> eat wraith -> twins -> red -> eat big wolf -> gank OR counterjungle.
Since most junglers b at this point you get just enough clear speed to eat his big wraith and clear both twins before going back, or gank if you have a chance.
Assuming your teammates cleared the jungle for you, your own creeps will respawn again by the time you get back.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 18 2011 00:35 Juicyfruit wrote:
Something like:
Blue -> clear wolves -> eat wraith -> twins -> red -> eat big wolf -> gank OR counterjungle.
You finish your first "clear" at ~3:50 (not much faster than a normal clear), but you wolves don't respawn till about 4:15. In addition to having to pass red to do smallgols first, and then double back, it's probably just faster to clear wraiths. Ice Blast really isn't that bad of a skill for clearing small camps.
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Wolves respawn every 100 seconds* no?
Anyways I made a mistake, I meant to say
Eat big wolf -> Get help clearing the other two (cleared before 1:52) -> Get to blue as it spawns -> Eat wraith -> twins -> red -> eat big wolf (respawned by 3:22) -> counterjungle
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United States47024 Posts
On February 18 2011 00:47 Juicyfruit wrote:
Wolves respawn every minute no?
Anyways I made a mistake, I meant to say
Eat big wolf -> Get help clearing the other two (cleared before 1:52) -> Get to blue as it spawns -> Eat wraith -> twins -> red -> eat big wolf (respawned by 2:52) -> counterjungle
Respawn times on small minions is 100 seconds.
And I'm still pretty sure it doesn't save any time. A normal clear finishes by 4:00, as opposed to 3:50 if you don't bother to clear the small wraiths. It'll take more than 10 seconds for you to get back to the wolf camp to eat the big wolf again (even if it does respawn in time), so there's pretty much no gain.
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You have to go through wolves to counterjungle their wraith and twins =o you're not wasting any time by doubling back.
Saving myself 10 seconds seems rather valuable, but that's just me. You start off by saving the 10 seconds it takes to kill wolves (because you kill it before blue respanws), and then another 10 seconds it would take to clear the three smaller wraiths. That's...maybe 20 seconds you just saved.
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United States47024 Posts
10 seconds is a rough estimate. I was giving a rough ballpark because when I tested it, I cleared a small wraith in addition to the big wraith before moving on and finished at 4 mins. Skipping that wraith probably wouldn't save a full 10 seconds.
On February 18 2011 00:55 Juicyfruit wrote:
Saving myself 10 seconds seems rather valuable, but that's just me. You start off by saving the 10 seconds it takes to kill wolves (because you kill it before blue respanws), and then another 10 seconds it would take to clear the three smaller wraiths. That's...maybe 20 seconds you just saved.
You'd normally eat the big wolf before blue spawns anyway, and you eat the other small wolf when you come back--meaning that it takes like an Ice Blast and 2 autoattacks to kill the 3rd wolf. Definitely not 10 seconds saved.
And you don't save 10 seconds on the small wraiths since clearing small wraiths makes back some time because you hit level 3 for the next camp (and having 2nd rank Ice Blast speeds up your red/minigols clear).
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On February 18 2011 01:11 TheYango wrote:10 seconds is a rough estimate. I was giving a rough ballpark because when I tested it, I cleared a small wraith in addition to the big wraith before moving on and finished at 4 mins. Skipping that wraith probably wouldn't save a full 10 seconds. Show nested quote +On February 18 2011 00:55 Juicyfruit wrote:
Saving myself 10 seconds seems rather valuable, but that's just me. You start off by saving the 10 seconds it takes to kill wolves (because you kill it before blue respanws), and then another 10 seconds it would take to clear the three smaller wraiths. That's...maybe 20 seconds you just saved. You'd normally eat the big wolf before blue spawns anyway, and you eat the other small wolf when you come back--meaning that it takes like an Ice Blast and 2 autoattacks to kill the 3rd wolf. Definitely not 10 seconds saved. And you don't save 10 seconds on the small wraiths since clearing small wraiths makes back some time because you hit level 3 for the next camp.
hmmm? Consume + smite instantly kills a stone golem which is your next target anyways. You'll be level 3 for the other one.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 18 2011 01:18 Juicyfruit wrote:
hmmm? Consume + smite instantly kills a stone golem which is your next target anyways. You'll be level 3 for the other one.
Then you don't have smite for red. If you consider that OK, then you probably save slightly more time. I save smite for buffs during the first clear on principle (with exceptions for Big Wolf/Big Wraith smites on non-blue starts).
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On February 18 2011 01:18 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2011 01:18 Juicyfruit wrote:
hmmm? Consume + smite instantly kills a stone golem which is your next target anyways. You'll be level 3 for the other one. Then you don't have smite for red. If you consider that OK, then you probably save slightly more time. I save smite for buffs during the first clear on principle.
It's generally considered futile to try and jack nunu's buffs, so pretty much no one tries anyways 
But you actually want the entire wolf camp cleared before blue spawns. Get help from your team as long as they don't exp-jack the big one. That way you'll be eating a second big wolf on your way up after doing red.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 18 2011 01:21 Juicyfruit wrote:It's generally considered futile to try and jack nunu's buffs, so pretty much no one tries anyways But you actually want the entire wolf camp cleared before blue spawns. Get help from your team as long as they don't exp-jack the big one. That way you'll be eating a second big wolf on your way up after doing red.
I know *your* path wants help clearing the wolf camp, but my point was that it saves very little time over a normal clear because a normal clear only really spends time on the last small wolf.
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I guess the advantage of getting help to clear wolves BEFORE you do blue is that the wolves will respawn faster. How long does it take to do blue + walk to wolves?
If you can make use of that earlier wolves respawn then you might save some time. Otherwise it doesn't seem too big of a deal.
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Saves about 15 seconds on wolf respawn?
Clearing blue takes about 10-15 seconds and walking over takes about 2-3
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United States47024 Posts
On February 18 2011 01:38 Juicyfruit wrote:
Saves about 15 seconds on wolf respawn?
Clearing blue takes about 10-15 seconds and walking over takes about 2-3
On a normal clear, the wolves will respawn before you get there. Particularly if you gank or bluepill first
Your whole path hinges on mid being able to find an opening to clear small wraiths--which may or may not happen in those first 3 levels. Not to mention that it's pretty unreasonable to expect someone to clear the small wolves (way too far from lane).
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A normal clear is also slower by about 20 seconds..that's kinda the point =o to save a dozen seconds so that you can either
a) get to their wraith/stone golem respawn before them or
b) catch enemy jungler doing red while you're double-buffed
Whether my mid clear the wolves is irrelevant if I can guarantee enemy jungler's wraiths and twins, which I am hoping that it would. And yes, it does hinge on mid clearing the wraiths, that's the basis for this route to begin with.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 18 2011 01:45 Juicyfruit wrote:
A normal clear is also slower by about 20 seconds..that's kinda the point =o to save a dozen seconds so that you can either
a) get to their wraith/stone golem respawn before them or
b) catch enemy jungler doing red while you're double-buffed
Whether my mid clear the wolves is irrelevant if I can guarantee enemy jungler's wraiths and twins, which I am hoping that it would. And yes, it does hinge on mid clearing the wraiths, that's the basis for this route to begin with.
You should be able to do A even if you do a normal clear and pill--and what jungler goes slow enough that your path makes B possible? Even if finish red at 3:40, you won't get to their red till past 4 minutes, at which point pretty much any reasonable jungler will be ganking/bluepilling.
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On February 18 2011 01:51 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2011 01:45 Juicyfruit wrote:
A normal clear is also slower by about 20 seconds..that's kinda the point =o to save a dozen seconds so that you can either
a) get to their wraith/stone golem respawn before them or
b) catch enemy jungler doing red while you're double-buffed
Whether my mid clear the wolves is irrelevant if I can guarantee enemy jungler's wraiths and twins, which I am hoping that it would. And yes, it does hinge on mid clearing the wraiths, that's the basis for this route to begin with. You should be able to do A even if you do a normal clear and pill--and what jungler goes slow enough that your path makes B possible?
Warwick =o
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United States47024 Posts
On February 18 2011 01:53 Juicyfruit wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2011 01:51 TheYango wrote:On February 18 2011 01:45 Juicyfruit wrote:
A normal clear is also slower by about 20 seconds..that's kinda the point =o to save a dozen seconds so that you can either
a) get to their wraith/stone golem respawn before them or
b) catch enemy jungler doing red while you're double-buffed
Whether my mid clear the wolves is irrelevant if I can guarantee enemy jungler's wraiths and twins, which I am hoping that it would. And yes, it does hinge on mid clearing the wraiths, that's the basis for this route to begin with. You should be able to do A even if you do a normal clear and pill--and what jungler goes slow enough that your path makes B possible? Warwick =o
Warwick still doing red at 4 mins?
He's slow, but I'm pretty sure he'd be doing minigols by the time you got there.
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EPT
