EPTAs far as late game goes, what do you all think about making Pick into DFG? DFG use + Snowball real terror burst late game.
[Champion] Nunu - Page 12
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AwayFromLife
United States441 Posts
As far as late game goes, what do you all think about making Pick into DFG? DFG use + Snowball real terror burst late game. | ||
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goldenkrnboi
United States3104 Posts
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On July 28 2012 04:33 Bladeorade wrote: I cant find his exact build, just grail and frozen heart am i blind Grail FH WotA is his core | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
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bmn
886 Posts
On July 28 2012 04:04 gtrsrs wrote: this is a good build and nunu is a good top but i wouldn't be worried about him getting nerfed any time soon nunu has 7 stat-abilities that don't scale at all with farm - the damage on his Q (not technically true, but it does no damage to other champs so i'm counting it), the attack speed buff on his W, the movespeed buff on his W, the attack speed slow on his E, the movespeed slow on his E, and the stats debuff on his ult (same as his E). so essentially by getting farm, you improve: the heal on your Q, the damage on your E, and the damage on your ult when you compare all the things that nunu does without farm (the first list) compared to what he does WITH farm (the second list), i think it's pretty logical to see that he won't become a fotm/competitive top laner. unless his laning is so incredibly dominant that he completely shuts out other laners, the benefit just simply isn't enough for a real team to put him top. so while this is going to be a great solo queue build and you should abuse it while you can, i don't see riot nerfing what is essentially a glorified support hero, when his bot lane placement is a lot more limited than other popular supports You discount any item that doesn't provide AP as worthless, why? Mogwai isn't suggesting building pure AP Nunu. Pretty much nobody other than Galio/Malphite have skills that scale in damage output with the stats provided by a Guardian Angel, but it's still a useful item. A top lane nunu can afford far more survivability items (and also more AP) than a support Nunu ever will. None of Nunu's skills scale in any unique way with the stats that Frozen Heart provides, but it's still an item that makes Nunu much stronger. (As somewhat different example, Trist doesn't have *any* skills that scale with AD, AFAICT, but she's still a viable bot lane AD carry. Ratios don't say everything about a hero.) | ||
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goldenkrnboi
United States3104 Posts
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
On July 28 2012 00:11 Mogwai wrote: Nunu's the single strongest answer I've found to Kennen, Kayle and Teemo. All of them harass with chip damage and nunu simply wins all trades with E -> Q -> peace out, thereby controlling the exchanges and severly outsustaining them. If WW doesn't get Chalice you can win the lane. If he does, it's a wash and whoever gets ganks wins the lane, but not by a ton. Pretty stupid matchup. Very interesting. Kennen running an MR page wouldn't be much more of a concern I'm assuming? I run a page for the times I face other APs top as Kennen that lets me come to lane with 55 mr myself. After revolver I usually grab a negatron for an abyssal later on. I think the thing that would kill Kennen the most is Nunu's iceball. Damn thing has no CD and hurts like hell at later ranks. His sustain is also retarded strong too. Blegh, just a really lame champion to face top with everyone. | ||
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danana
United States321 Posts
On July 28 2012 05:05 bmn wrote: You discount any item that doesn't provide AP as worthless, why? Mogwai isn't suggesting building pure AP Nunu. Pretty much nobody other than Galio/Malphite have skills that scale in damage output with the stats provided by a Guardian Angel, but it's still a useful item. A top lane nunu can afford far more survivability items (and also more AP) than a support Nunu ever will. None of Nunu's skills scale in any unique way with the stats that Frozen Heart provides, but it's still an item that makes Nunu much stronger. (As somewhat different example, Trist doesn't have *any* skills that scale with AD, AFAICT, but she's still a viable bot lane AD carry. Ratios don't say everything about a hero.) Well I think Trist is a rather bad example because of her massive attack speed steroid. But anyway, I think I agree with the sentiment that you can't just look at the item-scaling of a champion's abilities to determine whether it's competitive. For example, if Nautilus's AP ratios were completely removed I don't think that would really affect how competitive of a pick he is. Not that Nunu and Nautilus have comparable kits, but Nunu can still benefit from items in ways other than his AP ratios. | ||
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Dgiese
United States2687 Posts
On July 28 2012 07:35 goldenkrnboi wrote: question though. why ignite/flash? are you supposed to be looking for kills as nunu top? :O You will get kills as nunu top. You will whittle them down, and if they stay round you can poke them until diving range with e. Maybe something like a TP might work... but that's taking away from the focus of shutting down your lane. Ghost isnt really necessary with W. So I finally got to try out my first game of nunu top with smash's build. It totally wrecks. Had a teammate trash talking me all through champ select for first picking nunu top... oh well, carry him anyway. Got camped lvl 1 by for jax... managed to not die and not lose too much HP, once noct left I started raining snowballs down on jax, he got fed up with the harass and tried to all in me.... which failed miserably as I had q up and a few hundred hp on him. Fast forward 15 mins, jax 15 cs, me 115 and another kill. I'm guessin nunu is just really good against jax, but god damn, it felt insanely powerful. Trade trade trade, back up, q, full hp while they are on half. Mp pots are really helpful for starting items, as smash suggests, boots 1 hp 2mp. the mana from the pots lets you q, which heals you more than an hp pot anyway. I followed the build to the letter, although I felt like I didn't really need the revolver (although I'd probably feel differently if the lane was at all close). Also, the playstyle and mindset that smash described, it just wrecks. Pretty much any engagement can be disengaged from, and then nunu heals back up to full instantly while the other team are stuck low HP and can't respond to whatever you feel like doing. Next thing I wanna try out is soloing baron / duoing baron with jungle relatively near the 15 min mark. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On July 28 2012 05:05 bmn wrote: You discount any item that doesn't provide AP as worthless, why? Mogwai isn't suggesting building pure AP Nunu. Pretty much nobody other than Galio/Malphite have skills that scale in damage output with the stats provided by a Guardian Angel, but it's still a useful item. A top lane nunu can afford far more survivability items (and also more AP) than a support Nunu ever will. None of Nunu's skills scale in any unique way with the stats that Frozen Heart provides, but it's still an item that makes Nunu much stronger. (As somewhat different example, Trist doesn't have *any* skills that scale with AD, AFAICT, but she's still a viable bot lane AD carry. Ratios don't say everything about a hero.) as with most people in most arguments on this forum, you're trying to compare 2 things but you're doing them poorly and in an illogical way i was trying to compare nunu WITH farm, to nunu WITHOUT farm you seem to be comparing nunu without farm to tristana without farm or something. do i even need to go into this? tristana has one major advantage over nunu that she also has over any other melee champ in the game... range. she doesn't need *skills* that scale off AD because her main *skill* is her passive - immense auto range. no AD in the game relies on skills lategame except for repositioning or peeling. the whole point of my post was directed at people that think nunu is going to get nerfed now because he's *too strong.* yes, he's a strong laner, even a very strong laner. yes, past early-game he does his intended job (protects his own carry) just as well when farmed as when underfarmed. my point is to go forth, use this build, don't worry about it becoming fotm, nunu's not going to be getting significant nerfs. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On July 28 2012 11:18 gtrsrs wrote: as with most people in most arguments on this forum, you're trying to compare 2 things but you're doing them poorly and in an illogical way i was trying to compare nunu WITH farm, to nunu WITHOUT farm you seem to be comparing nunu without farm to tristana without farm or something. do i even need to go into this? tristana has one major advantage over nunu that she also has over any other melee champ in the game... range. she doesn't need *skills* that scale off AD because her main *skill* is her passive - immense auto range. no AD in the game relies on skills lategame except for repositioning or peeling. the whole point of my post was directed at people that think nunu is going to get nerfed now because he's *too strong.* yes, he's a strong laner, even a very strong laner. yes, past early-game he does his intended job (protects his own carry) just as well when farmed as when underfarmed. my point is to go forth, use this build, don't worry about it becoming fotm, nunu's not going to be getting significant nerfs. I think Nunu's going to get nerfed because he exhibits all the telltale signs of laning Riot hates. Extreme sustain and practically free harass. Every time there's a champion like that, Riot whacks it with the nerf bat. Nunu's level of sustain and harass is on par or surpasses pre-nerf Udyr. | ||
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
Some problems I ran into: -Darius. I probably misplayed it but with the E ranges being the same you can't really harass + he can force a trade when you CS. Post-6 there's a pretty big threat of him one-comboing you with Ignite to mitigate Consume. -Rumble. Fuck that guy. Shield to absord snowballs, Flamespitter to shove me to tower, and a very strong all-in that's hard to avoid. -No wave clear and no AD makes me end up with garbage CS relative to me playing other top laners. What do I do when there are 10+ minions pushing to my tower and there's somewhere else I need to be in the immediate future? | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On July 28 2012 11:28 Sufficiency wrote: I always feel that Nunu is weak against ranged champion though, because you can't get free hits on minions for passive stacks... maybe it's just me. Nunu hard counters Kayle and Nidalee and does quite well against kennen. It's hard to outtrade the snowball and you sustain so hard with your own Q. I've decided that WW is going to be my "counter" to nunu tops for now - you can trade Q for snowball fine, but yes you'll need chalice or ideally philo+chalice. (build to match his gp10s and neither of you will EVER DIE.) You'll probably end up farming a lot under tower a lot, and missing CS because you have like 0.2 AS when he snowballs you, but you won't die, and when he pushes you the threat of ganks against him (especially laneganks) is high because you hold him down with your Ulti while the jungler approaches. He also can't slow BOTH of you. My Anti-nunu Warwick Item order went something like: Early - Boots, Philo, Chalice, HoG Mid - Merc Treads, Glacial, Wit's end Late - FH, Shurelia, whatever else (you want these two for CDR cap) You end up serving much the same role late game as nunu - AS buff for team, Super-sustain damage sponge during poke wars, and neutralize the enemy carry. | ||
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
On July 28 2012 11:54 Alzadar wrote: -No wave clear and no AD makes me end up with garbage CS relative to me playing other top laners. What do I do when there are 10+ minions pushing to my tower and there's somewhere else I need to be in the immediate future? Farm wave with ulti npnp | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On July 28 2012 11:54 Alzadar wrote: Been playing lots of top Nunu (and one mid Nunu), overall it does feel pretty strong and I felt very powerful lategame no matter how laning went. Some problems I ran into: -Darius. I probably misplayed it but with the E ranges being the same you can't really harass + he can force a trade when you CS. Post-6 there's a pretty big threat of him one-comboing you with Ignite to mitigate Consume. -Rumble. Fuck that guy. Shield to absord snowballs, Flamespitter to shove me to tower, and a very strong all-in that's hard to avoid. -No wave clear and no AD makes me end up with garbage CS relative to me playing other top laners. What do I do when there are 10+ minions pushing to my tower and there's somewhere else I need to be in the immediate future? You do have a wave clear, it's your ultimate. Use with care. On July 28 2012 07:35 goldenkrnboi wrote: question though. why ignite/flash? are you supposed to be looking for kills as nunu top? :O Last Nunu top I played, I was 9-2-10. Totally carried my team. I expect him to get nerfed... way too OP at the moment. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
- Tried to trade with autos... I'm now convinced this is wrong, I should have leaned on iceball 100%. - Built a pick. - Revolver way late. This should have been a priority. Ultimately he died to ganks but still ended up ahead on CS because his lane presence was just so dominant. The fact I wasn't crushing even though he was getting camped pretty much meant our other lanes got screwed for nothing. I'm not sure I like the idea of nunu in matchups where just trading an auto is really dangerous. I'm inclined to think I would have come out ahead if I'd known how to play the matchup but it seems like you really need to obliterate your lane with snowball cheese for this to be worth it. | ||
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101toss
3232 Posts
This is why 21 utility, FH, and Grail are used Nunu isn't fotm, so it's a good time to farm elo. Btw, has anyone tested wits on nunu? | ||
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icemanzdoinwork
447 Posts
Man this build really does wreck. My only game so far was against rumble. Thought damn, one of the tough lanes smash was talking about np. I got forced back early of course, but had enough for philo, ward, and a mana pot. As soon as I got back, I was able to force him back and even the lane out again. More farming and trading and finally got forced back again. Picked up pick/chalice and some wards and bam I was in complete control now even with his revolver. Rumble would try to trade and I'd just run, then snowball when shield was down and Q up dat health. Ended up freezing the lane at my tower and making rumble take their jungle from riven to attempt to keep up. All 3 of my ganks by olaf got counter ganked by Riven. All 3 of them ended very badly for riven and rumble. I died only once in the 3 ganks, but olaf got 4 kills out of them and riven died every single time. Went straight for Grail and just dominated from there. Rumble was like 50 cs behind at that time. Picked up Shroud next into FH and where rumble was so far behind we killed it in team fights. I ended with mercs/philo/grail/fh/pick and rumble had mercs/revolver/rylai at 30 minutes...... mission accomplished. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On July 28 2012 13:14 UniversalSnip wrote: Like everyone this thread is making me extremely curious. I laned the new build first time last night, vs darius. I felt I played the matchup pretty poorly, a number of mistakes I made: - Tried to trade with autos... I'm now convinced this is wrong, I should have leaned on iceball 100%. - Built a pick. - Revolver way late. This should have been a priority. Ultimately he died to ganks but still ended up ahead on CS because his lane presence was just so dominant. The fact I wasn't crushing even though he was getting camped pretty much meant our other lanes got screwed for nothing. I'm not sure I like the idea of nunu in matchups where just trading an auto is really dangerous. I'm inclined to think I would have come out ahead if I'd known how to play the matchup but it seems like you really need to obliterate your lane with snowball cheese for this to be worth it. Trading with autoattacks is fine, trading while he has 5 stacks on you is NOT fine. I think you should forego Kage's and focusing on getting Revolver + Glacial Shroud first. GP10 is useless if you can barely stand in your lane... this is especially true for Nunu who is a snowballry laner - his sustain requires him to be near enemy minions; if he gets zoned, he gets zoned HARD. Since you do so little damage yourself, if you are behind, it's difficult to come back (you + jungler typically will have a hard time killing the opposing laner if he is already ahead). | ||
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