On August 05 2012 05:08 Dark_Chill wrote: I really want to get back into Rammus, even if he isn't incredibly viable, but I have no idea how to play him.
Do you start off boots3 or regrowth1? Both seem like valid options, but is one the better choice? Do boots leave him too low?
What runes should I use? Right now, I use armor yellow/red, scaling mr blue and ms quints, but I'm not sure if those are the best choice. Are the ms quints a good idea?
Finally, what am I supposed to level as Rammus? His W offers more survivability and clear speed, but then you have low ganking power. E seems to take a while to be effective for ganks. Q gives a bit more damage and slow, but it also costs more. No matter what ability I would level, it seems like I'd be heavily decreasing his abilities to do other things. Leveling Q means less surviability and a longer time for E to be good. Leveling W means less cc altogether. Leveling E means less damage and survivability. Rammus just seems to be an extremely weird champion. I don't know many like him who can focus on certain abilities and have it completely change what they're able to do to such a degree.
Starting items depends on what you want to build. I'd recommend either shooting for an early philo stone (start regrowth + 1 potion) or for madred's razors (start with cloth armor and an assortment of wards/potions, or with longsword and a potion). Use AS marks, not armor; MS quints are a fair choice.
I recommend WQQE then R>E>W>Q, the second point in Q early is because the extra 50 damage on powerball gives you extra power for both clearing the jungle as well as for ganks, but then you want to level taunt up ASAP for your ganks. If you plan to gank at level 3 go WQE instead.
On August 05 2012 05:08 Dark_Chill wrote: I really want to get back into Rammus, even if he isn't incredibly viable, but I have no idea how to play him.
Do you start off boots3 or regrowth1? Both seem like valid options, but is one the better choice? Do boots leave him too low?
What runes should I use? Right now, I use armor yellow/red, scaling mr blue and ms quints, but I'm not sure if those are the best choice. Are the ms quints a good idea?
Finally, what am I supposed to level as Rammus? His W offers more survivability and clear speed, but then you have low ganking power. E seems to take a while to be effective for ganks. Q gives a bit more damage and slow, but it also costs more. No matter what ability I would level, it seems like I'd be heavily decreasing his abilities to do other things. Leveling Q means less surviability and a longer time for E to be good. Leveling W means less cc altogether. Leveling E means less damage and survivability. Rammus just seems to be an extremely weird champion. I don't know many like him who can focus on certain abilities and have it completely change what they're able to do to such a degree.
I run attack speed reds and quints. armor yellows. MR/Lvl Blues.
Start Regrowth+1.
Level WQWE then R>E>W>Q. I'd rather have that second level in W early than a second in Q, but I can see the argument for it.
You really want boots and that philo ASAP. Rammus doesn't clear as fast as a lot of folks, so the gold income and regen really, really help. Gank like crazy. Rammus is def not as strong as he once was, but I still play him from time to time and have done fairly well. You just have to be smarter about how you engage because you cant ROFLTANK as well as you used to.
Okay, just tried it out: it feels slow, but that's to be expected. His ganks are what you're looking for when playing Rammus. With that in mind, I have a new question: is it sensible to play Rammus in solo queue ranked? When a character is that focused on his ganks to succeed, it just doesn't seem to make sense playing him in anything other than a coordinated team. I play Amumu as well jungling, and he just seems a lot better in solo queue ranked regarding ganks. Q closes gaps a lot more easily, and lvl 6 can usually guarantee a successful gank. He also clears faster and has much better survivability.
Mummy and Moose have different strengths when ganking. Mummy's strength is that if he gets to you, you are incredibly screwed.
Powerball isn't really a gap closer as much as it is a "fly past wards at warp speed without giving a shit and gank that lane anyway" move. This is why people hated playing against Rammus in solo que. Even if they ward halfway up the river, and even if they spot him, he can still get to their lane, and that taunt can lock them down while he lols and they die.
Stats: Base armor reduced to 20.8 from 24.8. Base attack damage reduced to 53.5 from 58.8. Now gains 1.25 Magic Resist per level.
Powerball: Duration reduced to 7 from 8. Initial bonus movement speed increased to 30% from 25%. Mana cost reduced to 70/80/90/100/110 from 80/90/100/110/120. Reduced the spell casting time and movement delay after collision.
Defensive Ball Curl: Damage return reduced to 15/25/35/45/55 from 20/30/40/50/60. Armor and magic resist values reduced to 40/60/80/100/120 from 50/75/100/125/150. Mana cost reduced to 40 from 50.
The latest quality of life improvements in the form of lower mana costs for Powerball and DBC are nice to be sure, but the nerfs to Rammus' stats and skills were overkill IMO. While jungling with level 1 DBC turned on, these nerfs altogether add up to 14 less armor, 8.8 less AD, and 6.4 less damage returned from DBC. This degree of nerfs is absolutely massive and Rammus is one of the weakest dedicated jungling champions in the game right now, IMO.
Rammus you generally start regrowth + 1 pot and start blue. Ideally you get a strong smiteless pull so you can do red after wraiths and do a fast level 3 gank. You get a lot of easy kills and blown summoners with this timing.
I especially like to do the reverse where you start wraiths -> red then go wolves -> blue and do a level 3 gank on top as Blue side. It's very effective.
Rammus can be disrupted early and it will hurt him a lot. You need your laners to be competent enough at picking champs that can fight off early invades and react quickly to it. If you pick Rammus early, 9 times out of 10 the enemy will pick a counterjungler like Mundo and try to do an early steal on the red side of your jungle. If your support wards it early you can pick up a free kill and get snowballing.
Best build is generally Philo into Aegis and then tank items for whatever is going on in the game. You can also grab Sunfire as your first big item, as Rammus needs HP more than any other stat and the damage is noticeable for clearing and it fights.
Leveling order is W, Q, E, E>W>Q. You really need to get your taunt duration leveled up ASAP. Ganks are pretty simple. Wait for the minion wave to arrive, spin up for 2-4 seconds in the bush, then go in and try to hit him from behind into your teammate. If they have flash try to arrive on them with another 1.5 seconds left on Q so you can force them try and flash over you and then close the gap anyway. Taunting as they flash is pretty obnoxious, too.
Rammus has top 5 best lane gank. Get a clear path to take and then just Q on in. Ideally you want your laners to jump in first and apply a CC or slow so that you are guaranteed to force a flash or get a kill.
Isn't start Q pretty standard if you get a decent leash from your team? W is useless on a leash and Q allows for the level 2 gank. I'm not a rammus pro but I'm pretty sure Q start is textbook.
On August 07 2012 13:28 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Isn't start Q pretty standard if you get a decent leash from your team? W is useless on a leash and Q allows for the level 2 gank. I'm not a rammus pro but I'm pretty sure Q start is textbook.
Q is also by far the most useful skill for a level 1 teamfight. 100 base damage AoE nuke, slows, MS buff.
EDIT: The problem with Q start on a leash is that bumping the Golem sometimes does weird things with its aggro and causes it to reset.
Some copypasta from GD so I don't lose track of it by the next time I can check the thread in 2013 or w/e:
On December 24 2012 04:11 Scip wrote: ok played Rammus in 6 really really tryhard ranked5s with my cz team and my current verdict is: HELL YEA Tried building Locket first and Randuins first, Randuins is just so goddamn godlike because your W gives it like 1.2 more seconds when you use it, not to mention you scale really well with the hp and the armor too kinda. Locket is good because Locket OP naturally. Start Machete+5, then Spirit Stone, boots1, Flask. Rammus has godlike initiation and probably the best innate survivability of all champions in the game (120 armor+mres, gl killing that LOL). Haven't tried building all that much damage, probably not the best idea unless you get fed. Most likely sunfire or zeal would be best.
On December 24 2012 04:11 Scip wrote: ok played Rammus in 6 really really tryhard ranked5s with my cz team and my current verdict is: HELL YEA Tried building Locket first and Randuins first, Randuins is just so goddamn godlike because your W gives it like 1.2 more seconds when you use it, not to mention you scale really well with the hp and the armor too kinda. Locket is good because Locket OP naturally. Start Machete+5, then Spirit Stone, boots1, Flask. Rammus has godlike initiation and probably the best innate survivability of all champions in the game (120 armor+mres, gl killing that LOL). Haven't tried building all that much damage, probably not the best idea unless you get fed. Most likely sunfire or zeal would be best.
Thread is going to be replaced in the near future so I would record your personal notes somewhere else.
Does anyone want to do the Rammus thread? Me not yet, but I think that in a month or so I should be experienced enough to write a guide (as long as Rammus will keep proving himself stronk)
On December 24 2012 09:20 Scip wrote: Does anyone want to do the Rammus thread? Me not yet, but I think that in a month or so I should be experienced enough to write a guide (as long as Rammus will keep proving himself stronk)
I am doing it. I have the framework done, but I'm getting more games in for adjustments and alternate builds.
He is certainly viable right now, but still a sketchy early pick.
On December 24 2012 09:20 Scip wrote: Does anyone want to do the Rammus thread? Me not yet, but I think that in a month or so I should be experienced enough to write a guide (as long as Rammus will keep proving himself stronk)
I am doing it. I have the framework done, but I'm getting more games in for adjustments and alternate builds.
He is certainly viable right now, but still a sketchy early pick.
Really excited for this guide and some Moose tips in the new jungle. By far my favorite champ of all time.
On December 24 2012 05:41 Haasts wrote: Some copypasta from GD so I don't lose track of it by the next time I can check the thread in 2013 or w/e:
On December 24 2012 04:11 Scip wrote: ok played Rammus in 6 really really tryhard ranked5s with my cz team and my current verdict is: HELL YEA Tried building Locket first and Randuins first, Randuins is just so goddamn godlike because your W gives it like 1.2 more seconds when you use it, not to mention you scale really well with the hp and the armor too kinda. Locket is good because Locket OP naturally. Start Machete+5, then Spirit Stone, boots1, Flask. Rammus has godlike initiation and probably the best innate survivability of all champions in the game (120 armor+mres, gl killing that LOL). Haven't tried building all that much damage, probably not the best idea unless you get fed. Most likely sunfire or zeal would be best.
Thread is going to be replaced in the near future so I would record your personal notes somewhere else.
I can't edit the OP for some reason, so if you want a new topic for Rammus with an OP that is even remotely relevant then it's probably best to let this thread die.
I'm curious as to how people are making Rammus work, he feels pretty weak to me compared to other junglers I've tried such as Jax, Lee Sin, Amumu and even Sejuani.
Yeah, we did the same thing for Amumu thread, when Craton is done he will make a new OP and this thread will get closed. All the discussion here will be either outdated or will contribute to the guide Craton will make anyway.
When you are done with your draft Craton, dont forget to post it here so we can get some suggestions going :3
EPT
