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On January 11 2012 13:44 petered wrote:
A lot of people seem to hate utility tree but I think 9/0/21 is the best on kat. mostly for the 10% cdr, 3% spell vamp and 2% movespeed which I think help kat during laning a whole lot more than offensive of defensive tree.
True the other trees probably scale better, but to me kat is all about not getting pushed out of lane early then racking up kills mid game.
CDR on Kat is useless due to her passive.
Those are the best Kat masteries around in my opinion.
Nothing beats the offensive tree in terms of gold value.
MPen Reds, HP/lvl or Armor Yellows, flat MR blues, MS Quints.
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On January 11 2012 23:48 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 13:44 petered wrote:
A lot of people seem to hate utility tree but I think 9/0/21 is the best on kat. mostly for the 10% cdr, 3% spell vamp and 2% movespeed which I think help kat during laning a whole lot more than offensive of defensive tree.
True the other trees probably scale better, but to me kat is all about not getting pushed out of lane early then racking up kills mid game.
CDR on Kat is useless due to her passive. Those are the best Kat masteries around in my opinion.Nothing beats the offensive tree in terms of gold value. MPen Reds, HP/lvl or Armor Yellows, flat MR blues, MS Quints.
Hmm, I rarely feel like I need MS quints on kat, mostly because shunpo mechanics are already amazing, and that I don't feel that I'd be missing anything by not running them... I've been running AD quints with kat, just cause they scale better than AP quints for her, especially early game. I was also thinking of perhaps running mpen quints? Or would that simply be too much mpen to be useful?
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On January 12 2012 02:27 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 23:48 Shiv. wrote:On January 11 2012 13:44 petered wrote:
A lot of people seem to hate utility tree but I think 9/0/21 is the best on kat. mostly for the 10% cdr, 3% spell vamp and 2% movespeed which I think help kat during laning a whole lot more than offensive of defensive tree.
True the other trees probably scale better, but to me kat is all about not getting pushed out of lane early then racking up kills mid game.
CDR on Kat is useless due to her passive. Those are the best Kat masteries around in my opinion.Nothing beats the offensive tree in terms of gold value. MPen Reds, HP/lvl or Armor Yellows, flat MR blues, MS Quints. Hmm, I rarely feel like I need MS quints on kat, mostly because shunpo mechanics are already amazing, and that I don't feel that I'd be missing anything by not running them... I've been running AD quints with kat, just cause they scale better than AP quints for her, especially early game. I was also thinking of perhaps running mpen quints? Or would that simply be too much mpen to be useful?
MPen would probably not be too good. You have 28 MPen with your reds+Shoes, which is basically true damage to the enemy mid laner a majority of the time. If the enemy team starts stacking MR, you want a Void Staff anyhow which kind of makes the MPen quints obsolete. I don't like AD Quints because, well, I don't like AD Kat and I have no problems last hitting. I don't like AP quints because I don't need the early AP and 15 AP is nothing late game. I like MS because they are consistently strong throughout the whole game, from positioning, dodging skill shots and always staying as far away as possible from an enemy in lane to cleaning up mid game team fights to running away from nasty bruisers late game. Also, I like them because they let me catch people I want to Shunpo. It's a matter of preference, though. To new Kat players, I'd honestly suggest running flat HP because of her insanely weak early laning.
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On January 12 2012 03:12 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 02:27 wei2coolman wrote:On January 11 2012 23:48 Shiv. wrote:On January 11 2012 13:44 petered wrote:
A lot of people seem to hate utility tree but I think 9/0/21 is the best on kat. mostly for the 10% cdr, 3% spell vamp and 2% movespeed which I think help kat during laning a whole lot more than offensive of defensive tree.
True the other trees probably scale better, but to me kat is all about not getting pushed out of lane early then racking up kills mid game.
CDR on Kat is useless due to her passive. Those are the best Kat masteries around in my opinion.Nothing beats the offensive tree in terms of gold value. MPen Reds, HP/lvl or Armor Yellows, flat MR blues, MS Quints. Hmm, I rarely feel like I need MS quints on kat, mostly because shunpo mechanics are already amazing, and that I don't feel that I'd be missing anything by not running them... I've been running AD quints with kat, just cause they scale better than AP quints for her, especially early game. I was also thinking of perhaps running mpen quints? Or would that simply be too much mpen to be useful? MPen would probably not be too good. You have 28 MPen with your reds+Shoes, which is basically true damage to the enemy mid laner a majority of the time. If the enemy team starts stacking MR, you want a Void Staff anyhow which kind of makes the MPen quints obsolete. I don't like AD Quints because, well, I don't like AD Kat and I have no problems last hitting. I don't like AP quints because I don't need the early AP and 15 AP is nothing late game. I like MS because they are consistently strong throughout the whole game, from positioning, dodging skill shots and always staying as far away as possible from an enemy in lane to cleaning up mid game team fights to running away from nasty bruisers late game. Also, I like them because they let me catch people I want to Shunpo. It's a matter of preference, though. To new Kat players, I'd honestly suggest running flat HP because of her insanely weak early laning.
Yeah, well I'd run AD quints for the same reason you put those first 3 points of offense masteries in AD, it's mostly because i don't know what else to put in those quint spots, but yeah, probably a good idea to run ms quints, i'll try that out.
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Kat is one of the free champions this week, so I tried her out.
I'm pretty noob (only level 12 on my first and only account), but I'm learning quick and Kat seems like a pretty easy champion to play, since she doesn't require any mana/energy management.
Based on what I've read in this thread and in other forums, AP Kat is the way to go, based on Shunpo's insane damage, utility, and short cooldown. Since the only thing limiting her abilities is CDR, I figured I'd try to make a build to max out CDR. But then in this thread I read this:
On January 11 2012 23:48 Shiv. wrote:
CDR on Kat is useless due to her passive.
And now I'm confused  Even though the passive resets everything (except Ultimate), it only procs when a champion dies; unless you're constantly killing champions all game, isn't it important to try and max CDR so you can use knives/shunpo/ult as often as possible? I would think this would be especially important in the early levels when Kat is supposedly at her weakest.
It also seems very useful late game to be able to shunpo every 3.6 seconds (lvl 5 Shunpo with 40% CDR).
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What exactly would you build to get her CDR?
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On March 08 2012 04:32 BlasiuS wrote:Kat is one of the free champions this week, so I tried her out. I'm pretty noob (only level 12 on my first and only account), but I'm learning quick and Kat seems like a pretty easy champion to play, since she doesn't require any mana/energy management. Based on what I've read in this thread and in other forums, AP Kat is the way to go, based on Shunpo's insane damage, utility, and short cooldown. Since the only thing limiting her abilities is CDR, I figured I'd try to make a build to max out CDR. But then in this thread I read this: Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 23:48 Shiv. wrote:
CDR on Kat is useless due to her passive.
And now I'm confused Even though the passive resets everything (except Ultimate), it only procs when a champion dies; unless you're constantly killing champions all game, isn't it important to try and max CDR so you can use knives/shunpo/ult as often as possible? I would think this would be especially important in the early levels when Kat is supposedly at her weakest. It also seems very useful late game to be able to shunpo every 3.6 seconds (lvl 5 Shunpo with 40% CDR).
kat has very poor cdr itemization. a lot of cdr items come with mana stats, which are totally wasted. The ones that don't are focused towards AD champs. So basically you got cdr shoes and blue pot and that's about the extent of cdr you can get, and sorc shoes are pretty hard to give up on kat. The only other item that has cdr that doesn't have stats completely wasted is mybe spirit visage, but that's a hard buy to justify.
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Katarina relies on levels more than almost any other champion. All of her skills scale up really well, and her getting to level 18 is significantly more important than pretty much any other champion I can think of.
In terms of itemization, I think you'd have to experiment on what gives you the best method of clearing creeps and moving around the map quickly. I can't really think of any item that's particularly vital to kat because she's going to be doing a ton of damage at level 18 if her ults goes off properly even if the only thing you have is a void staff.
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On March 08 2012 04:39 Juicyfruit wrote:
What exactly would you build to get her CDR?
no cdr item is great for kat. you should maximize it by runes and masteries.
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I was thinking:
-CDR per level glyphs(8.1% at level 18)
-4 points in Sorcery mastery (4%)
-Ionian Boots of Lucidity (15%)
-Blue Elixir (10%)
-2 CDR quints (1.64% each, for a total of 3.28%)
total is 40.38%, however without the elixir (which would be most of the game) it's only 30.38%. After looking over the possible CDR items, the only thing I could see possibly being worthwhile as a substitute for the elixir would be Kindlegem early-> Hextech Sweeper later on. I've read enough guides to notice that Sweeper is never used by anyone, but: Sweeper is fairly cheap, gives AP, health, and CDR (all useful to Kat), its passive makes it easier to chase down people escaping in the jungle, and its active lets you clear out jungle wards(BONUS: very good against stealth-reliant characters like Twitch/Shaco). Getting the kindlegem after Gunblade would give you ~35% CDR, and once you reach level 18 you'd have the full 40% CDR.
Cons: requires 2 CDR quints, you give up Sorc Boots, and kindlegem delays what would normally be your next big item after Gunblade.
Not sure which is better. This is mostly theorycrafting, since I haven't played with her enough, but I'm looking to create a decent build with her.
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That's too many suboptimal itemization for a gimmick that Kat doesn't particularly need, really.
If you're really that hurting for late-game CDR just go 9/21/0 and build a DFG. It's pretty good late-game especially if you have void staff and wota already.
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On March 08 2012 05:17 BlasiuS wrote:
I was thinking:
-CDR per level glyphs(8.1% at level 18)
-4 points in Sorcery mastery (4%)
-Ionian Boots of Lucidity (15%)
-Blue Elixir (10%)
-2 CDR quints (1.64% each, for a total of 3.28%)
total is 40.38%, however without the elixir (which would be most of the game) it's only 30.38%. After looking over the possible CDR items, the only thing I could see possibly being worthwhile as a substitute for the elixir would be Kindlegem early-> Hextech Sweeper later on. I've read enough guides to notice that Sweeper is never used by anyone, but: Sweeper is fairly cheap, gives AP, health, and CDR (all useful to Kat), its passive makes it easier to chase down people escaping in the jungle, and its active lets you clear out jungle wards(BONUS: very good against stealth-reliant characters like Twitch/Shaco). Getting the kindlegem after Gunblade would give you ~35% CDR, and once you reach level 18 you'd have the full 40% CDR.
Cons: requires 2 CDR quints, you give up Sorc Boots, and kindlegem delays what would normally be your next big item after Gunblade.
Not sure which is better. This is mostly theorycrafting, since I haven't played with her enough, but I'm looking to create a decent build with her.
This build only works on Dominion, so I don't exactly know what to say. It might actually be pretty good over there because of how fights will almost never be 5v5, so the value of your passive is a lot lower than on SR.
On SR, I would not run this build.
- I don't want CDR Glyphs. Her early laning is really weak, I need flat MR to keep up until I'm lvl 4.
- 4 points in Sorc Mastery are standard
- I'd have a hard time giving up Sorc shoes because of how her teamfights are supposed to be played out*
- Blue Elixir also fairly standard
- CDR quints are inferior to basically any other common quint on Kat.
Kindlegem doesn't build into anything useful and to play Kat effectively, you will NEED to snowball, at least a little. Investing 850 gold into a little bit of health and some CDR (both stats which won't give you much laning presence compared to what you could get) won't get you all that far.
*:The real reason I heavily dislike CDR on Kat is the way she teamfights, though. You don't want straight up to jump in, you'll wait until CCs are blown and you can be sure to get a kill or an assist. The moment you get that assist, any runes and items with CDR basically are wasted. You can Shunpo to the next target, generally with -% dmg reduction again. The amount of damage you put out by being able to use your abilities basically TWICE IN A ROW is what makes Kat a great asset in teamfight. It's also the reason you REALLY want Sorcs over Ludicity. Her Ult is neat for cleaning up and if they really just blew ALL their CC, but generally, people tend to focus on it way too much.
Basically, the only ability that really benefits from CDR is her ultimate, an ability that is highly situational anyway.
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He says in the "pros" that you can bypass resistances because you build AD if they go for MR and AP if they go for armor... does he really believe that his skills will do their AD ratio as physical damage and AP as magic, or something?
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i disagree strongly with the bit about not using BB first when you gank things because using it then shunpoing and ulting allows you to use it again + gunblade when they run
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I don't really see the appeal of AP quints over AD quints on Katarina. You're trading 12 damage on shumpo for 7 less autoattack damage, and the latter is way more useful.
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On March 09 2012 03:09 Juicyfruit wrote:
I don't really see the appeal of AP quints over AD quints on Katarina. You're trading 12 damage on shumpo for 7 less autoattack damage, and the latter is way more useful.
MS Quints are probably superior to both.
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Ok I have been convinced that maxing CDR on kat isn't good 
I have a question about her ult: Can you use Hextech Gunblade's ability while in the middle of using her ult?
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On March 09 2012 03:35 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 03:09 Juicyfruit wrote:
I don't really see the appeal of AP quints over AD quints on Katarina. You're trading 12 damage on shumpo for 7 less autoattack damage, and the latter is way more useful. MS Quints are probably superior to both.
For mid, probably. For top, I think it's debatable.
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not getting rylais on kat is simply wrong imo.
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EPT
