EPTits too lol
[Champion] Sivir - Page 4
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Yiruru
Canada690 Posts
its too lol | ||
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ATeddyBear
Canada2843 Posts
On February 13 2011 09:26 Yiruru wrote: dont mention regis sivir its too lol dude call me daddy bro | ||
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BouBou.865
Netherlands814 Posts
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zomgzergrush
United States923 Posts
I know many frown upon the manamune but I'd like to put in my two cents and see if you guys don't change your mind. - HP quints, apen red, everything else mana regen (mostly just to help the early phases pre-tear) season masteries to taste but I find finishing the utility tree most beneficial. - ghost + flash. I really like this combo so I can be both offensive for the kill and also to gtfo when it gets hot. Cleanse is cool but having BOTH ghost and flash really lets you get those kills that just need a short chase to finish the job. Yeah yeah sivir has a built in ghost but it's hardly fast enough to finish your chase soon enough without over extending often times. Also ghost stacks on your ult so if you're getting chased with ghost, there's no way they're getting to you. skilling is standard priority, Q, W, E (W and E order depends on your opponent/taste), followed with a priority of R>Q>W>E. -start meki + hp pot + mana pot (with the SS and common sense, I can't see the need for two HP pots. Around level 5 or 6 I pop the blue. Great if opponent is being aggressive and spending all their mana.) -tear + boots if you can. -manamune (or finished boots first) -boots situational of course, unless theres an enormous amount of enemy CC I get zerkers -bloodthirster -black cleaver -sword of the divine (sometimes starks if I have that kind of money) -luxury item to your needs. I tend to do another BT. I know many people will say: "why not just start with bloodthirster? Manamune sucks, waste of money. Last hit, no need for mana. Rely on spell shield." Manamune is friggen awesome on siv for a number of reasons. 1. obviously you spam the crap out of your boomerang. 2. by spamming the crap out of your boomerang you can harass the hell out of your opponents. It's impossible to run out of mana even if you tried. 3. an always on W ensures continual bounces off creeps to enemies, harassing the hell out of them. Remember your riccochet's CAN'T BE DODGED. 4. sivir continually procs BOTH of the manamune passives, which means it is always permanently increasing your attack damage unlike BT. Manamune grows the entire game. 5. no need to worry bout a slip up and losing BT stacks. 6. since you're spamming the crap out of your boomerang you are always at a SAFE DISTANCE while being annoying as hell at the same time. Feel free to farm at a really long distance if you're getting zoned without worrying about mana. 7. relax, the BT comes next. You're sivir, you get farm easily. Very Very easily thanks to manamune. It will come quick. A side bonus is that from a relatively early level you get to insta-clear each creep wave. Now I know that this is frowned on but by doing so, you are slowly minion pushing the opposing tower to death if the enemy champion physically cannot clear the wave quickly. If they can clear the wave and both you and your enemy's tower aren't getting scratched all game you are most likely getting more cs than the enemy since you are tower denying minions. This is not the same as "pushing the line forward and opening yourself to a gank," this is "clear the line out instantly and completely and then retreating as your minions do your bidding." If you neglect mana regen items and rely solely on your SS for mana regen, a good opponent will simply NOT give you anything on your SS or make you waste it by intentionally not hitting you with their abilities (i.e. shooting at creeps instead). This is especially an issue with ashe where you don't get time to see exactly where the volley is directed and have to just react to the sound+visuals with your SS. Try it! | ||
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
"i cant see any reason why you would need more than 1 hp pot because you are playing bad people . bad laners, period" i would easily zone any sivir that opens meki with my ashe dblade- still win boots + 3 pots- ur not gettin any cs cloth armor+ 5 hp pots- u are going to get fb'd are u'r going to go back. 2) "helps sivir farm" doesn't help you at all sivir farms fine(if not exactly the same...) without it. Obviously you compare BT and mananume DMG output and alas, mananume sucks. "helps u harass enemy" why are you harassing enemy when u can just clear creeps then go do wraiths? you are seriously just sitting there throwing boomerang at the enemy and not farming? Bad. nothing else to say about that. 3) you are trying to contradict yiruru, without even giving a hint to your own elo. i find that funny and it discredits your whole post when everytime i read a sentence i dont see sivir advice i see " lol is this guy negative elo?" obviously i dont do this all the time but when ur trying to go against the advice of arguably the best sivir player you ought to at least post something 4) your pure dmg items are terrible, the flat penetration items indicate you play ranked games where everyone picks 4 solo laners and a jungler and zero tanks. i could go on n on. | ||
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Kaniol
Poland5551 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Anivia, Kassadin, and Corki all can do something with "limitless" mana because they can literally burn everything if they need it (it's possible to run out their mana even with blue buff). Sivir doesn't need infinite mana--she just needs a baseline amount so that she can use Boomerang Blades--she has virtually no other sources of heavy mana consumption. Manamune then is over-investing inefficiently into mana regeneration. Just run off runes/masteries and manage your mana better. | ||
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zomgzergrush
United States923 Posts
On February 20 2011 23:20 HeavOnEarth wrote: 1) meki+ 2 hp pots. "i cant see any reason why you would need more than 1 hp pot because you are playing bad people . bad laners, period" i would easily zone any sivir that opens meki with my ashe dblade- still win boots + 3 pots- ur not gettin any cs cloth armor+ 5 hp pots- u are going to get fb'd are u'r going to go back. 2) "helps sivir farm" doesn't help you at all sivir farms fine(if not exactly the same...) without it. Obviously you compare BT and mananume DMG output and alas, mananume sucks. "helps u harass enemy" why are you harassing enemy when u can just clear creeps then go do wraiths? you are seriously just sitting there throwing boomerang at the enemy and not farming? Bad. nothing else to say about that. 3) you are trying to contradict yiruru, without even giving a hint to your own elo. i find that funny and it discredits your whole post when everytime i read a sentence i dont see sivir advice i see " lol is this guy negative elo?" obviously i dont do this all the time but when ur trying to go against the advice of arguably the best sivir player you ought to at least post something 4) your pure dmg items are terrible, the flat penetration items indicate you play ranked games where everyone picks 4 solo laners and a jungler and zero tanks. i could go on n on. I don't see how u can zone sivir as ashe with dblade when its physically impossible for ashe to get in range...volleys is all she can throw and if you're compitent sivir you're just SSing them all. I don't think you've met sivirs who actually use their boomerangs correctly if you're zoning em out as ashe. I have NEVER been zoned out by ashe as sivir before simply because ashe can never get close enough to get a normal attack off and all volleys just get SS'd. health pots + boots ok great, you might be annoying for a while but that comes to an end pretty quick and I would hardly be completely zoned. cloth armor: boomerang was magic damage last time i checked. A maxed manamune is dishing out around +66 and is 1k cheaper than the BT. BT of course ends up +100 but those stacks go away when you're dead. Later on you can sell the manamune for an early 2nd BT if you like. "why are you harassing enemy when u can just clear creeps then go do wraiths? you are seriously just sitting there throwing boomerang at the enemy and not farming? Bad. nothing else to say about that." I thought I made it clear but I'll spell it out again. 1 boomerang clears creeps after a few riccochets. another boomerang hits the opponent. I don't see how complicated it is to do both at the same time. Also, why the hell am I touching wraiths? Junglers need their cs. THAT is bad. Managing mana better and rushing BT is one way to go about it but you don't get to clear every wave instantly and in turn, dont get to safely minion harass the turret. I'm not negative ELO nor are my games 2 1 2 laners. No need to flame me here I'm just trying to illustrate a different style of play. This isn't about straight numbers here, being able to constantly throw a boomerang from a relatively early level isn't something to overlook. | ||
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FlameSworD
United States414 Posts
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
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zomgzergrush
United States923 Posts
"sivir never gets in attack range of ashe." "relying on the fact that I have more attack range than sivir" This is neglected by that early tear....sivir's attack range BECOMES boomerang. Also that sivir couldn't even soak any volleys and she prefires her SS all the time instead of waiting for the volley -.-. If you can't react to a volley being thrown than other parts of your sivir are probably lacking. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On February 21 2011 03:23 zomgzergrush wrote: I'm not negative ELO nor are my games 2 1 2 laners. No need to flame me here I'm just trying to illustrate a different style of play. This isn't about straight numbers here, being able to constantly throw a boomerang from a relatively early level isn't something to overlook. I don't know what your elo is since you are not sharing it, however, you should at least know who you are talking about. Thread creator Yiruru is 2225 ELO and HeveanonEarth (aka Ezpzlmnsqz) is 1869. Both play at a very high level. The reason their opinions are so respected is because their advice is tried and true at the top levels of play. | ||
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Kaniol
Poland5551 Posts
On February 21 2011 03:39 zomgzergrush wrote: his main point is he relies on Q and "sivir never gets in attack range of ashe." "relying on the fact that I have more attack range than sivir" This is neglected by that early tear....sivir's attack range BECOMES boomerang. Also that sivir couldn't even soak any volleys and she prefires her SS all the time instead of waiting for the volley -.-. If you can't react to a volley being thrown than other parts of your sivir are probably lacking. Having an attack at 9 sec cooldown is way too good, yeaah. I just hope that once the server is back up you will show your Sivir to EzPz's Ashe and convince everyone that Sivir > Ashe  | ||
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zomgzergrush
United States923 Posts
On February 21 2011 03:45 Kaniol wrote: Having an attack at 9 sec cooldown is way too good, yeaah. I just hope that once the server is back up you will show your Sivir to EzPz's Ashe and convince everyone that Sivir > Ashe Yeah everything else in this video pointing to weaknesses of sivir vs ashe are neglected by my build. later in the video he says "I can't really kite him if he's bouncing stuff off the creeps to hit me" Again, this begins very early with this build, not level 8-9 as in the video. CS sivir will never be below ashe if you can safely farm in one swoop each time. Also the more I watch it the more I see that sivir is terribad with SS. Who the hell is gonna shoot a volley/arrow when you prefire your SS? Also, if your SS is down and ashe has an arrow ready, dont friggen extend that far. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 21 2011 03:39 zomgzergrush wrote: This is neglected by that early tear....sivir's attack range BECOMES boomerang. Boots-first Ashe should be able to dodge BB at 600+ range. This is not in any way related to Sivir's build--if Ashe starts boots, she should be able to dodge Boomerangs. On February 21 2011 03:59 zomgzergrush wrote: later in the video he says "I can't really kite him if he's bouncing stuff off the creeps to hit me" Again, this begins very early with this build, not level 8-9 as in the video. How does it start any earlier? Sivir can only reliably Ricochet onto Ashe if you have ranks in Ricochet, which requires ditching ranks in Boomerang Blade, which means Ashe can just shit all over you because BB will be doing crap damage. It has nothing to do with mana availability. Rank 1 Ricochet is not going to be hitting Ashe meaningfully often, even if you have it on 100% of the time. | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
l0l and once he has that initial farm / level advantage you're fucked, manamune or not not to mention that bb is fairly dodge-able fairly small aoe decent projectile speed you can steal THEIR wraiths if you wanna fuck up their jungle and have summoners up you can steal YOUR jungler's wraiths if they're going for a gank / b and it will be up when they go for another clear etc. etc. sivir does fine with double mp5, which is what most players run on her it allows her to be independent of mana regen items and thus they can focus their gold on better sources of damage like BT | ||
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zomgzergrush
United States923 Posts
On February 21 2011 04:09 TheYango wrote: Boots-first Ashe should be able to dodge BB at 600+ range. This is not in any way related to Sivir's build--if Ashe starts boots, she should be able to dodge Boomerangs. How does it start any earlier? Sivir can only reliably Ricochet onto Ashe if you have ranks in Ricochet, which requires ditching ranks in Boomerang Blade, which means Ashe can just shit all over you because BB will be doing crap damage. It has nothing to do with mana availability. Rank 1 Ricochet is not going to be hitting Ashe meaningfully often, even if you have it on 100% of the time. The first point was moreso talking about straight range. If ashe starts boots, she can dodge boomerangs alright for doran sivir. Take that number of BB times X and then see how many of those you consistently dodge when sivir doesn't have to save her mana. You probably won't be zoning sivir out that hard if there is a constant BB threat, you have to stay further back. Mostly I was making that point based on what happened in the video. The point where this ashe was having issues with riccochet was wayyyyyyyyyy later than I make it. I like to add a 2nd rank to riccochet earlier after 2 boomerang and then continue finishing boomerang first after that. With no mana management need, the less creeps there are going to be from an earlier point. The less creeps there are, the more likely you get riccochets off on ashe. Just try it and see how it feels instead of theorycrafting | ||
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Jaksiel
United States4130 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 21 2011 04:20 zomgzergrush wrote: The first point was moreso talking about straight range. If ashe starts boots, she can dodge boomerangs alright for doran sivir. Take that number of BB times X and then see how many of those you consistently dodge when sivir doesn't have to save her mana. You probably won't be zoning sivir out that hard if there is a constant BB threat, you have to stay further back. Starting Meki turns into 1 extra BB a minute. That's hardly "doesn't have to save her mana". By the time you finish Tear, Ashe will have had plenty of time to screw your laning. On February 21 2011 04:20 Jaksiel wrote: I'm not sure how you spell shield every volley when volley is on a much shorter cooldown... Not to mention that past level 6, every Volley is potentially baiting Spell Shield so that it's down for your Arrow. | ||
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zomgzergrush
United States923 Posts
On February 21 2011 04:21 TheYango wrote: Starting Meki turns into 1 extra BB a minute. That's hardly "doesn't have to save her mana". By the time you finish Tear, Ashe will have had plenty of time to screw your laning. Not to mention that past level 6, every Volley is potentially baiting Spell Shield so that it's down for your Arrow. Yes starting meki turns into 1 extra BB a minute, not counting what your SS soaked. By tear you should be able to start spamming quite a bit more but the part where you get to spam BB nonstop is when your manamune is finished. Once manamune is finished, gl dodging every single boomerang as it comes off CD. You spell shield the volleys that you need to and if your spell shield is down, don't put yourself in danger. Past 6, yes, ashes have figured out that they can't get volleys to land on me and will bait my SS with volley so they can get an arrow off on me. Solution: don't extend when ashe is 6 and go for the quick clearing of each wave and backing off to safety. You also no longer need SS for mana anymore and don't need to purposely soak volleys. Stay behind minions and just wait for the arrow or SS volleys only when safely close to your tower. | ||
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