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On October 15 2012 04:32 Lmui wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2012 02:59 Djin)ftw( wrote:
I have another question: I've seen several people now who go pure +AD. 21 or so you get with runes alone, +masteries (havoc etc). Now I always go 21-9-0 with armor and MR runes, but I wonder if that is a mistake. As the ranged adc, shouldnt you try to maximize your dmg? Glass cannon ftw? Harass is much stronger, last hit is easier etc.. You only do damage while you're alive. If you run pure AD in runes with no armour and run up against a caitlyn, for example, you're going to be basing 4 minutes into the game or dead. Later in the game, the MR runes save your ass against incidental AoE damage you're taking, stuff like TF wild cards, corki missiles. You run offensive runes in marks/quints because that's where offensive runes are equal or better than defensive ones but seals/glyphs are more slot efficient defensively and thus make more sense to use
You mean cait outranges sivir so I need armor to withstand dat harass? Ok but what if you are cait then? Wouldn't an all dmg build make much more sense then? The runes are only good for the early/mid game anyway, once you get GA I dont think it matters if you have 120 armor or 107.
Right now I would say an allin dmg build into harass into outfarm seems to be much better than a hybrid ArP/Arm/Mr build. I'll test this once I get another adc. Atm I only got ashe and sivir t.t
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On October 15 2012 05:39 Djin)ftw( wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2012 04:32 Lmui wrote:On October 15 2012 02:59 Djin)ftw( wrote:
I have another question: I've seen several people now who go pure +AD. 21 or so you get with runes alone, +masteries (havoc etc). Now I always go 21-9-0 with armor and MR runes, but I wonder if that is a mistake. As the ranged adc, shouldnt you try to maximize your dmg? Glass cannon ftw? Harass is much stronger, last hit is easier etc.. You only do damage while you're alive. If you run pure AD in runes with no armour and run up against a caitlyn, for example, you're going to be basing 4 minutes into the game or dead. Later in the game, the MR runes save your ass against incidental AoE damage you're taking, stuff like TF wild cards, corki missiles. You run offensive runes in marks/quints because that's where offensive runes are equal or better than defensive ones but seals/glyphs are more slot efficient defensively and thus make more sense to use You mean cait outranges sivir so I need armor to withstand dat harass? Ok but what if you are cait then? Wouldn't an all dmg build make much more sense then? The runes are only good for the early/mid game anyway, once you get GA I dont think it matters if you have 120 armor or 107. Right now I would say an allin dmg build into harass into outfarm seems to be much better than a hybrid ArP/Arm/Mr build. I'll test this once I get another adc. Atm I only got ashe and sivir t.t
By your logic, why bother running the full AD runes then? After you IE, what's the difference between 200 AD and 205 AD?
AD yellow and blue are inefficient runes while defensive runes are very efficient. Moreover, when you are at 30 MR for most of midgame since you are buying stuff like Zeal and not Null Magic, the extra 12 MR is a 30% bonus to your eHP from magic damage. That's worth a lot more than the 5% bonus you're going to get lvl 1 running AD blues.
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On October 15 2012 06:08 xes wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2012 05:39 Djin)ftw( wrote:On October 15 2012 04:32 Lmui wrote:On October 15 2012 02:59 Djin)ftw( wrote:
I have another question: I've seen several people now who go pure +AD. 21 or so you get with runes alone, +masteries (havoc etc). Now I always go 21-9-0 with armor and MR runes, but I wonder if that is a mistake. As the ranged adc, shouldnt you try to maximize your dmg? Glass cannon ftw? Harass is much stronger, last hit is easier etc.. You only do damage while you're alive. If you run pure AD in runes with no armour and run up against a caitlyn, for example, you're going to be basing 4 minutes into the game or dead. Later in the game, the MR runes save your ass against incidental AoE damage you're taking, stuff like TF wild cards, corki missiles. You run offensive runes in marks/quints because that's where offensive runes are equal or better than defensive ones but seals/glyphs are more slot efficient defensively and thus make more sense to use You mean cait outranges sivir so I need armor to withstand dat harass? Ok but what if you are cait then? Wouldn't an all dmg build make much more sense then? The runes are only good for the early/mid game anyway, once you get GA I dont think it matters if you have 120 armor or 107. Right now I would say an allin dmg build into harass into outfarm seems to be much better than a hybrid ArP/Arm/Mr build. I'll test this once I get another adc. Atm I only got ashe and sivir t.t By your logic, why bother running the full AD runes then? After you IE, what's the difference between 200 AD and 205 AD? AD yellow and blue are inefficient runes while defensive runes are very efficient. Moreover, when you are at 30 MR for most of midgame since you are buying stuff like Zeal and not Null Magic, the extra 12 MR is a 30% bonus to your eHP from magic damage. That's worth a lot more than the 5% bonus you're going to get lvl 1 running AD blues.
Hm, but that's what I want to know. With Sivir you got 59 base dmg, which makes it very hard for me to lasthit properly. I cant even one-hit ranged creeps after a tower shot. So while I certainly need to step up my game, I could still a) replace ArP with AD runes (which I dont want to do) OR b) replace armor/mr runes with AD.
And given that I just played against an ezreal who went full ad and poked me like there was no tomorrow (with ~90 dmg), I really dont know how to counter that given the shitty range and low mana pool.
So you all think that sacrificing a bit sustainability for 5 to 10 dmg is not worth it? hm mh hm
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Run all AD marks/quints if you need to or at least AD quints + arpen marks. Sivir's insane scaling on her Q off of AD means that you aren't sacrificing much of anything early game by running AD on marks/quints and you'll have a much easier time last hitting minions. With the good use of sivir's W, you can essentially get one autoattack on every minion under tower and easily get the second one off as the tower shoots if you're running arpen, practice a bit more and it should become easy for you to last hit under tower.
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how do you play against graves?
I think I was sivir/soraka vs graves/nunu.
I found that graves just outdamages me (probably also because of bloodboil) and even if I spellshield his buckshot and land my q (sorta hard with his dash), he's tanky enough that it makes it not worthwhile to trade, however he can easily get up to me with dash/bloodboil.
Normally when I play sivir it's pretty much trade all day with q/w and as long as I get a good q off I'll usually win the trade, but graves so tanky.
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On October 31 2012 00:54 King K. Rool wrote:
how do you play against graves?
I think I was sivir/soraka vs graves/nunu.
I found that graves just outdamages me (probably also because of bloodboil) and even if I spellshield his buckshot and land my q (sorta hard with his dash), he's tanky enough that it makes it not worthwhile to trade, however he can easily get up to me with dash/bloodboil.
Normally when I play sivir it's pretty much trade all day with q/w and as long as I get a good q off I'll usually win the trade, but graves so tanky.
Push the wave hard starting from lvl 1, and use your q all day long with the mana bonus from soraka to harass graves whenever he goes for a last hit.
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United States8298 Posts
On October 15 2012 06:08 xes wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2012 05:39 Djin)ftw( wrote:On October 15 2012 04:32 Lmui wrote:On October 15 2012 02:59 Djin)ftw( wrote:
I have another question: I've seen several people now who go pure +AD. 21 or so you get with runes alone, +masteries (havoc etc). Now I always go 21-9-0 with armor and MR runes, but I wonder if that is a mistake. As the ranged adc, shouldnt you try to maximize your dmg? Glass cannon ftw? Harass is much stronger, last hit is easier etc.. You only do damage while you're alive. If you run pure AD in runes with no armour and run up against a caitlyn, for example, you're going to be basing 4 minutes into the game or dead. Later in the game, the MR runes save your ass against incidental AoE damage you're taking, stuff like TF wild cards, corki missiles. You run offensive runes in marks/quints because that's where offensive runes are equal or better than defensive ones but seals/glyphs are more slot efficient defensively and thus make more sense to use You mean cait outranges sivir so I need armor to withstand dat harass? Ok but what if you are cait then? Wouldn't an all dmg build make much more sense then? The runes are only good for the early/mid game anyway, once you get GA I dont think it matters if you have 120 armor or 107. Right now I would say an allin dmg build into harass into outfarm seems to be much better than a hybrid ArP/Arm/Mr build. I'll test this once I get another adc. Atm I only got ashe and sivir t.t By your logic, why bother running the full AD runes then? After you IE, what's the difference between 200 AD and 205 AD? AD yellow and blue are inefficient runes while defensive runes are very efficient. Moreover, when you are at 30 MR for most of midgame since you are buying stuff like Zeal and not Null Magic , the extra 12 MR is a 30% bonus to your eHP from magic damage. That's worth a lot more than the 5% bonus you're going to get lvl 1 running AD blues.
That's not how MR works. 12 MR is 12% of your max HP as additional EHP from magic damage (assuming your MR is not getting penetrated all the way to 0.)
Against a midgame AP carry this probably means you have 12 MR instead of 1 MR (sorc shoes+MPen runes/masteries), and thus have ~+150 EHP from magic damage.
However... AD yellows and blues give you shit all. 6AD between the two of them? But you're complaining about not having enough AD to last hit minions under tower (as sivir? O.O what are you doing under your tower? nvm that's not important right now.) while running ArPen runes? The reason everyone started running flat AD is because even getting a few additional creeps from +15 AD outweighs a couple points of damage on the opposing champ during trades.
AD runes on sivir will let you push much harder while giving almost the same damage when hitting the opposing champs. (within 1-3 damage pre-6)
13 armor and 12 MR is just so much more efficient than +4 AD (instead of 13 armor... you're taking ~8 more damage from the opposing champ in order to do 3.5 more base damage) and +2 AD (instead of 12 MR, which protects you from getting bursted by an AP or jungle gank, or from Leona/Taric/Corki magic damage when fighting)
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Can't believe we're having a discussion on if 6AD is worth it for 18 runes. No, it is not.
Anyway, AD quints are more efficient than Armor Pen quints. (Each AD quint is worth 2.4x an AD mark, while an ArP quint is only worth 2.0x an ArP mark.) There's a reason every AD has used AD quints even in season 1.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
any tournament game vods for this lol version of luna?
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On October 15 2012 05:39 Djin)ftw( wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2012 04:32 Lmui wrote:On October 15 2012 02:59 Djin)ftw( wrote:
I have another question: I've seen several people now who go pure +AD. 21 or so you get with runes alone, +masteries (havoc etc). Now I always go 21-9-0 with armor and MR runes, but I wonder if that is a mistake. As the ranged adc, shouldnt you try to maximize your dmg? Glass cannon ftw? Harass is much stronger, last hit is easier etc.. You only do damage while you're alive. If you run pure AD in runes with no armour and run up against a caitlyn, for example, you're going to be basing 4 minutes into the game or dead. Later in the game, the MR runes save your ass against incidental AoE damage you're taking, stuff like TF wild cards, corki missiles. You run offensive runes in marks/quints because that's where offensive runes are equal or better than defensive ones but seals/glyphs are more slot efficient defensively and thus make more sense to use You mean cait outranges sivir so I need armor to withstand dat harass? Ok but what if you are cait then? Wouldn't an all dmg build make much more sense then? The runes are only good for the early/mid game anyway, once you get GA I dont think it matters if you have 120 armor or 107. Right now I would say an allin dmg build into harass into outfarm seems to be much better than a hybrid ArP/Arm/Mr build. I'll test this once I get another adc. Atm I only got ashe and sivir t.t
I have an all damage page for cait, im not rly a fan of it. The damage difference is just so small.. rather run the flat armors and mres/lvl
also there are times where u get in spots where to get a kill u do have to take damage
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
If you don't come to lane with armor, essentially any trade is disadvantageous for you. Hell, even the support's autos are gonna hurt a lot more than they should, and even though you have 6 more AD or whatnot, is it worth taking more damage from minions and enemy autos and physical spells?
Absolutely not. You engage early on, a lot of time you'll draw minion aggro. Those fuckers hurt. And especially since your range is like what 500 or 525, people will get free shots on you all day and you'll just cry without armor yellows to get you out of laning phase.
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Anyone tried the new s3 items on her? I didn't find any new stuff useful. I still go BT, IE, LW, PD.
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On October 31 2012 00:54 King K. Rool wrote:
how do you play against graves?
I think I was sivir/soraka vs graves/nunu.
I found that graves just outdamages me (probably also because of bloodboil) and even if I spellshield his buckshot and land my q (sorta hard with his dash), he's tanky enough that it makes it not worthwhile to trade, however he can easily get up to me with dash/bloodboil.
Normally when I play sivir it's pretty much trade all day with q/w and as long as I get a good q off I'll usually win the trade, but graves so tanky.
Isn't Sivir sort of a counterpick against Graves? Sivir's damage is pretty broken and her range issue is not as severe against Graves.
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On December 03 2012 02:53 oneofthem wrote:
any tournament game vods for this lol version of luna?
if only sivir can walk around people with aghanim'ed ulti
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EPT
