[Champion] Sivir - Page 10

On January 26 2012 20:35 Craton wrote:
You do less damage with AD reds than ARP reds.

With standard 21/X/X masteries and a dblade,

Four setups, each testing first hit of Q, return hit of Q, and one auto attack. No minions getting hit by Q to dilute the Q. I walk into lane as Sivir with 33 armor; other ADs are going to be at a similar amount except Graves.

13 Armor vs AD reds + AD quints: 95/75 Q, 75 Auto
13 Armor vs ARP reds + AD quints: 91/73 Q, 71 Auto

33 Armor vs AD reds + AD quints: 81/65 Q, 64 Auto
33 Armor vs ARP reds + AD quints: 82/66 Q, 64 Auto

Basically the only time AD do more damage than ARP is when the person walks into lane with no +armor whatsoever, which doesn't happen. Even then you're talking doing an extra 5 damage in a best case scenario.

On January 26 2012 20:57 arthur wrote:


So you lose 2 damage at lvl 1 and CSing is considerably harder... AD all the way.

Also remember some supports will have gold/10 instead of armour seals = free frags for flat ad.

On December 25 2011 18:05 unichan wrote:

nope
why, do you have a problem with my build?

Stacking BTs is a legitimate strat on Sivir. It sounds stupid but she's the only AD that can go 3 BTs and roll face. Her farming is unparalleled.

On January 26 2012 23:13 Blyf wrote:
Standard ranged carry masteries + runes assumed:
Berserkers greaves, phantom dancer, bloodthirster (fully stacked) on level 18 Sivir with ultimate on (+60% attack speed):
502 damage per second

Add another bloodthirster and a pickaxe (3975 gold):
801 dps (299 extra)

Add infinity edge instead (3800 gold):
980 dps (478 extra)

I actually think multiple bloodthirsters on anyone is terrible, even if they can be kept fully stacked. Every auto attacker seems to benefit the most from balancing all of the multiplicatively scaling offensive stats (attack damage, critical strike, attack speed and armor penetration).
Besides, you will have a huge power lull after dying with three bloodthirsters as suggested in the build by unichan.



Edit:
Actually the math suggests that bloodthirster in itself is a terrible item. Only with full stacks can it be considered cost effective, and even then it should only be bought when you need more attack damage but already have infinity edge. This would occur after multiple phantom dancers, so realistically bloodthirster would be worthwhile as the next item when you are sitting on:
Berserkers greaves + infinity edge + phantom dancer + phantom dancer. If you have in-built attack speed steroid, you could skip the second phantom dancer.

PS. I draw these conclusions from mingling with a spread sheet with ~every item combination for each AD carry. Another fun observation is that on-hit builds are very effective for guys like kog and vayne until you hit IE + double PD, at which point the AD builds take over. However, the lack of movespeed is devastating even though on hit items give defensive stats.

On January 26 2012 23:13 Blyf wrote:


Neo


Standard ranged carry masteries + runes assumed:
Berserkers greaves, phantom dancer, bloodthirster (fully stacked) on level 18 Sivir with ultimate on (+60% attack speed):
502 damage per second

Add another bloodthirster and a pickaxe (3975 gold):
801 dps (299 extra)

Add infinity edge instead (3800 gold):
980 dps (478 extra)

I actually think multiple bloodthirsters on anyone is terrible, even if they can be kept fully stacked. Every auto attacker seems to benefit the most from balancing all of the multiplicatively scaling offensive stats (attack damage, critical strike, attack speed and armor penetration).
Besides, you will have a huge power lull after dying with three bloodthirsters as suggested in the build by unichan.



Edit:
Actually the math suggests that bloodthirster in itself is a terrible item. Only with full stacks can it be considered cost effective, and even then it should only be bought when you need more attack damage but already have infinity edge. This would occur after multiple phantom dancers, so realistically bloodthirster would be worthwhile as the next item when you are sitting on:
Berserkers greaves + infinity edge + phantom dancer + phantom dancer. If you have in-built attack speed steroid, you could skip the second phantom dancer.

PS. I draw these conclusions from mingling with a spread sheet with ~every item combination for each AD carry. Another fun observation is that on-hit builds are very effective for guys like kog and vayne until you hit IE + double PD, at which point the AD builds take over. However, the lack of movespeed is devastating even though on hit items give defensive stats.

On January 28 2012 08:02 bmn wrote:


As a noob who is trying to play Sivir well, I salute you for actually doing the math, and doing it in detail.

Now, a question about the general play style: For some reason I rarely seem to do particularly well as Sivir, I just don't have the good items fast enough. I suspect I leave my lane too soon, especially if we lost one tower early (e.g. in one game they pushed bot 4v2).

What is the most solid way to play Sivir (or similar AD carries) early/mid game?

When do you stop afkfarming bot? Is it based on your items, your team's towers, or something else?
If we lose bot tower, do I just stay in lane and farm up anyway, even if I can't push safely? Or do I start roaming/jungling/pushing another lane?

I realize this isn't really a Sivir-specific question. I don't have this "what do I do for the next ten minutes" problem as a jungler or solo top/mid, for some reason.

On January 30 2012 05:05 Dark_Chill wrote:
I've had some success with a triforce later on in the game. The slow early on can be really helpful.

On February 01 2012 22:32 turdburgler wrote:
it appears to be instant, or if there is a delay you have enough time. any projectile attack you can wait till its in the air before hitting the shield and stop it if you pay attention.

so after q nerf on sivir my choice to open w lvl 1 on her looking even stronker. i always took w first because it only dealt 1 less dmg than q (assuming you only got 1 hit on the q) at level 1 and couldnt miss. this allowed me to get more reliable harras at level 1 setting up for some big pain at level 3.