Proposed (not final) changes for Nidalee from Shurelia's sustain changes thread:

Nidalee
* Javelin Toss
** Mana Cost reduced to 50/60/70/80/90 from 60/70/80/90/100
** Cooldown reduced to 6 from 7
* Pounce
** May now be affected by cooldown reduction
** Cooldown increased to 3.5 from 3
* Primal Surge
** Mana cost changed to 60/80/100/120/140
** Base heal changed to 50/85/120/155/190 from 60/90/120/150/180
** AP ratio reduced to 0.7 from 1.25
* Swipe AP ratio increased to 0.4 from 0.2
* Aspect of the Cougar now grants 10/15/20 Armor and Magic Resist instead of 10% Dodge
* General
** Cleaned up a lot of Nidalee's tooltips, especially Cougar form

Pretty brutal hit to heal but some potentially nice buffs (2 second pounce? yes please).

Will reserve judgement till it goes live.

HazMat

United States17077 Posts

August 17 2011 06:23 GMT

#146

I like these changes. I main Nidalee but I'll be the first to admit that her laning power and lategame heals were just insane. It's great that Riot is trying to make her less of a support and more of a carry. Finally Pounce is affected by CDR again.

I'll update the op when the final changes hit~

Wala.Revolution

7582 Posts

August 17 2011 06:26 GMT

#147

Maybe this will convince me to learn Nidalee, one of the champions I don't have and have no idea how to play (I have never played her nor saw someone play).

zalz

Netherlands3704 Posts

August 17 2011 07:09 GMT

#148

Think they could have hit her heal a little harder. Overall she is still an unkillable top champ that will spend all game long pushing the top lane with absolutely jack shit you can do about it.

I don't think this will make her sustain leave the ranks of lanewick or laneudyr.

Deranes

Germany75 Posts

August 17 2011 07:36 GMT

#149

2 second pounce will be very nice! Not just for the extra movespeed, but for the time reduced waiting on the cooldown so you can make a walljump. I know you Nidalee players have had the situation where you have 2-5 champions behind you and you have to stand looking at a wall for 1½ seconds because you made a jump a second ago to avoid a charge/stun etc.

I do think that the heal nerf is going to make early game Nidalee(pre-cat) play more passive since you'll run out of mana fast if you're too aggressive. Going to make an already boring lane way more boring.(I'm talking about 1v2 top since that's what I'm usually up against in lvl 30 normals). But yeah the nerf is probably needed beacuse her sustain in lane is very good right now and those lategame heals feel OP as hell when harassing team vs team and you just heal 60% of someones health everytime heal is of cd.

I would like to know what cooldownreduction item(s) you're thinking about buying and after/before which item.

I'm thinking morello's evil tome as your first or second item after boots(the other item being guinsoo's rage blade) the order depending on how your lane played out before you went to buy. A second cdr item will have to be thought out for those time you cant get bluebuff.

Edit: You might want to edit OP as, if I'm not wrong. bushwack doesn't unstealth wards anymore.

Navi

5286 Posts

August 17 2011 07:47 GMT

#150

i don't think itemizing cdr will be a priority (bluebuff and elixir)
that cdr on nidalee's spear sounds really annoying lategame if it goes through

arnath

United States1317 Posts

August 17 2011 08:02 GMT

#151

Uh ... maybe I'm missing something but isn't this just strictly worse than before?

Heal is WAAAYYYY worse than before. 20 armor/MR is more or less the same as 10% dodge, especially considering Nimbleness. Pounce CDR is nice but the average Nidalee build didn't have THAT much CDR by any means (at best maybe CDR blues). Swipe AP ratio is nice but you're still going to get fucked up the ass if you try to Cougar form in team fights.

HazMat

United States17077 Posts

August 17 2011 08:59 GMT

#152

On August 17 2011 17:02 arnath wrote:
Uh ... maybe I'm missing something but isn't this just strictly worse than before?

Heal is WAAAYYYY worse than before. 20 armor/MR is more or less the same as 10% dodge, especially considering Nimbleness. Pounce CDR is nice but the average Nidalee build didn't have THAT much CDR by any means (at best maybe CDR blues). Swipe AP ratio is nice but you're still going to get fucked up the ass if you try to Cougar form in team fights.

Ya it's a nerf but I'm just glad she'll be more fun to play. I'm sure Hotshot is supa mad though.

Navi

5286 Posts

August 17 2011 09:07 GMT

#153

lower cd and mana costs on spear makes it even gayer in prolonged fights over tower / objectives
and changes to pounce will make it stronger with cdr ofc
even-ish change imo if not a net positive considering that other heals are gonna get weakened making nidalee spears potentially super obnoxious-er than usual

HazMat

United States17077 Posts

August 17 2011 09:08 GMT

#154

On August 17 2011 16:36 Deranes wrote:
2 second pounce will be very nice! Not just for the extra movespeed, but for the time reduced waiting on the cooldown so you can make a walljump. I know you Nidalee players have had the situation where you have 2-5 champions behind you and you have to stand looking at a wall for 1½ seconds because you made a jump a second ago to avoid a charge/stun etc.

I do think that the heal nerf is going to make early game Nidalee(pre-cat) play more passive since you'll run out of mana fast if you're too aggressive. Going to make an already boring lane way more boring.(I'm talking about 1v2 top since that's what I'm usually up against in lvl 30 normals). But yeah the nerf is probably needed beacuse her sustain in lane is very good right now and those lategame heals feel OP as hell when harassing team vs team and you just heal 60% of someones health everytime heal is of cd.

I would like to know what cooldownreduction item(s) you're thinking about buying and after/before which item.

I'm thinking morello's evil tome as your first or second item after boots(the other item being guinsoo's rage blade) the order depending on how your lane played out before you went to buy. A second cdr item will have to be thought out for those time you cant get bluebuff.

Edit: You might want to edit OP as, if I'm not wrong. bushwack doesn't unstealth wards anymore.

Yeah like I said, this thread is outdated and I'll update it when these changes take place.

spinesheath

Germany8679 Posts

August 17 2011 09:10 GMT

#155

Nidalee often hogs blue buff. With just that she already has a lower cooldown on pounce.
20 AR/MR is way worse for Nid than 10% dodge because the Nimbleness procs are important for her ridiculous escapes.

That javelin...

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

August 17 2011 09:17 GMT

#156

EDIT: spines basically said all I was going to say

BlackPaladin

United States9316 Posts

August 17 2011 09:19 GMT

#157

On August 17 2011 18:10 spinesheath wrote:
20 AR/MR is way worse for Nid than 10% dodge because the Nimbleness procs are important for her ridiculous escapes.

I was literally just going to say that when I read this lol.
It's the only change I really think is wrong.

wei2coolman

United States60033 Posts

August 17 2011 16:40 GMT

#158

Nidalee is pretty op'd, not gunna lie

. Love hotshotgg's guide for it.

doran's ring, sorc boots (or merc treads), guinsoos, rabadons (if getting fed or farming a lot) otherwise get lichbane first, then a defensive item or voidstaff.

Nidalee is prolly my favorite champion, although she has the most skills of any champion, her cougar abilities are pretty simple to do, Just spam qwe over and over.

Skill progression, get 1 point in everything, (jav first), max heal first, then jav.

tips: Use cougar form to go everywhere!
Use W,E,Q for maximum damage against champions.
Always be farming!
Put traps EVERYWHERE
When there's a teamfight about to happen, always poke with javelin until the teamfight starts.
Always be healing! Heal priorities: Yourself, carry's, tanks.

arnath

United States1317 Posts

August 17 2011 18:14 GMT

#159

My point is this: without her crazy lane sustain, how is she going to lane top versus virtually any currently popular solo top? They almost doubled the mana cost of heal at max level and nearly halved the AP ratio.

I agree I want her to be more of a carry than she is now and nerfing the heal will eventually pave the way for that, but this seems like they're going to pull a "last patch Pantheon" where they strictly make him worse and then are like "try him and see how we can make him better".

Southlight

United States11766 Posts

August 17 2011 18:23 GMT

#160

All it means is she'll have to back like most normal heroes instead of going from level 1 to level 12 without every having to go back and heal while being ungankable.