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On April 14 2011 05:03 Lanzoma wrote:
You're assuming the lane is going to be free of resistance. GRB is good for pushing because you can 1v1 and drive back nearly anybody that is thrown at you, which allows you to push and take towers.
I don't assume. I addressed that in my post. There are situations where GRB is superior, but I find them to be less frequent than situations where rushing Deathcap would be better.
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The only benefit Rageblade provides in pushing is the boost to killing towers & harassing champions. This is very helpful, but, in my opinion, isn't as helpful as a faster Deathcap.
That is the only part that addresses the enemy champion. Sure, insta-nuking the waves is gonna happen either way, but if you can't put pressure on your opponent then it's just mutual farming and you're never going to reach that tower. Your analysis of either option is lacking on how the enemy is going to respond.
We're talking about approximately GRB vs Blasting Wand & NLR, in terms of cost.
In terms of stats, GRB option (8 stacks - no reason to not have them at 8) gives:
+35 damage
+32% aspd
- 27 AP
Creating a meaningful HP difference is what matters during laning exchanges, and the offensive stats create a bigger, faster disparity than a bit more AP for healing. Spears are irrelevant, you won't be hitting them in lane unless they're dumb or you're firing point-blank. After a few of these exchanges, they'll have to leave the lane / call for gank / ask jungler to cover their lane while they heal, all of which put you or your team ahead.
The question of what's more appropriate according to the situation is a different issue altogether. The point is, GRB's pushing power is not in how fast you can kill the creeps, but in how you can win the lane so convincingly that they can't stop you (or they waste too many resource trying to do so).
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On April 14 2011 04:00 Lanzoma wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2011 20:34 phyvo wrote:
Besides, if you want to play spear nid the proper build goes something like AA->deathcap, but from HSGG's point of view spear Nid only works if your mid is winning. If you need to carry with midgame dominance GRB is just better. TreeEskimo was debating to himself yesterday whether to get GBR for pushing or rush Deathcap and win by poking to death. Interestingly, his thought process was the opposite as yours - if my team is winning I can push like mad and keep forcing 4v4s that they'll win, if my team is losing I need to squish the other team before teamfights so we have an edge / force them back and take objectives.
If you're talking about the magic spear game where he stole baron, he ended up getting GRB, which fits with the "I need to dominate midgame" thinking (his mid did terrible). What he actually debated in that game was lichbane vs deathcap and opted for deathcap because he didn't think split pushing was an option.
Full spear nid vs dominance nid is AA vs GRB, not GRB vs deathcap nor deathcap vs lichbane. Whether or not you split push is a different issue with a different set of factors and items behind it. The only thing that I imagine might be confusing is that spear nid is probably not as good at pushing as GRB nid is.
It's not really my line of thinking either. it's pulled directly from Locodoco's miniguide in this thread that he pulled from HSGG. It makes enough sense to me, but maybe HSGG does something slightly different now compared to a few months ago (even though Nidalee hasn't changed all that much), who knows.
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Hmm, my bad, I must have mixed up the items. I don't remember him talking about lichbane for some reason.
I've yet to see AA on nidalee myself, so I'm clueless in that respect. Seems like a ton of wasted mana stats imo...just get more AP and blue.
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So... for Nid I rune arpen, dodge and clarity (mp5 per lvl) with flat AP quints. I know it's a bit odd, but I generally end up midding and the arpen with AP quints make me a BEAST.
I then get a Rageblade if we don't have a tower-eater and go various AP items from there depending on the situation. If we have a tower-eater, I rush Deathcap and go spear/heal Nid.
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About that rageblade business, what part do you pick first? i usually go for blasting wand but getting pickaxe first makes sense too. And do you finish boots2 before starting rageblade? or do you get 1 part and then finish boots? or even finish it before boots2?
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I generally get the blasting wand first.
I generally go back to base at 1.2k gold. If I'm midding against an AP, I'll go straight for merc treads and keep up my auto-harass (supplemented by my lovely arpen runes). If I'm midding against AD, I'll get my blasting wand first and lvl1 boots, unless I'm totally kicking their ass, then I'll get the pickaxe to take down their tower faster.
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Hs goes wand first i believe. And if hs does it, you should too.
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Haha, I believe like League is a lot more situational than most people make it out to be.
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Blasting wand is the better choice on nid.
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Generally, yes. But I think wand is just generally the way you want to go on her. It makes ur heals beastly, and super heals+ the aspeed bonus means tower dead anyway.
Btw- just checked hs profile:
Armpen reds/quints, dodge yellows, cdr blues
masteries: 0-9-21
What he seems to be running on her now.
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i do the same mastery/runes wise.
BTW, i've seen hotsht getting boots+3 pots first in some games (ESL and another on his stream), and I was like WTF. why would you start boots 3 pots instead of dorans ring??? anyone can explain the reasoning (or lack of)?
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On April 24 2011 08:29 Two_DoWn wrote:
Generally, yes. But I think wand is just generally the way you want to go on her. It makes ur heals beastly, and super heals+ the aspeed bonus means tower dead anyway.
Btw- just checked hs profile:
Armpen reds/quints, dodge yellows, cdr blues
masteries: 0-9-21
What he seems to be running on her now.
Now? It's been the exact same set for over a year now.
And yeah you should get GRB, the autoattack dmg is pretty significant but most of all, it makes you a towerpushing machine.
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I believe he made the switch from health to armpen following the nerf to health.
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On April 24 2011 08:32 SagaZ wrote:
i do the same mastery/runes wise.
BTW, i've seen hotsht getting boots+3 pots first in some games (ESL and another on his stream), and I was like WTF. why would you start boots 3 pots instead of dorans ring??? anyone can explain the reasoning (or lack of)?
probably just because nidalee's a pretty strong laner so if he knows he won't have a hard lane he can get away with boots first. doran's items are still a money sink remember.
also with dat passive move speed combined with boots boots first would make helping out in jungle/counterjungle much easier.
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On April 24 2011 08:38 Two_DoWn wrote:
I believe he made the switch from health to armpen following the nerf to health.
I'm almost certain that sometime before last summer I took notes of his runebuild and he already had apen quints oO maybe he switched back to health sometime afterwards?
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On April 24 2011 09:07 sRapers_ValkS wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 08:32 SagaZ wrote:
i do the same mastery/runes wise.
BTW, i've seen hotsht getting boots+3 pots first in some games (ESL and another on his stream), and I was like WTF. why would you start boots 3 pots instead of dorans ring??? anyone can explain the reasoning (or lack of)? probably just because nidalee's a pretty strong laner so if he knows he won't have a hard lane he can get away with boots first. doran's items are still a money sink remember. also with dat passive move speed combined with boots boots first would make helping out in jungle/counterjungle much easier.
Bleh... it makes sense, but it would feel so weird to me...
Pots are nice and all, but I think it would take me forever to get used to playing Nid with pots early. I'm so used to judging my damage taken with my mana regen to keep my game as aggressive as possible while still being sustainable.
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Tried boots +3, didnt like it very much. Found myself never using the pots, and wishing i had more mana regen.
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Doran's ring is practically the perfect item for nidalee. Why you want to skip?
The 100HP it gives is pretty important if you want to go head to head with anyone in cougar.
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Nid's heal is the most op heal in the game. You don't need health pots you need mana regen.
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EPT
