Nidalee is a really complex champion with the most skills in the game. Unlike other champions, Nidalee has 7 different skills. She has 4 skills in Human form and 4 in Cougar (ultimates are the same)
Passive.
Passive: Moving through brush increases Nidalee's movement speed by 15% for 2 seconds. This passive, along with pounce and her ultimate, makes Nidalee one of the best chasers in the game. Make good use of brushes to chase down or run away from enemies. Just be careful of wild Garen's when facechecking.
Nidalee's secret passive.
3Xp/5 to champions that are lower level near her.
Human form abilities.
Javelin Toss
Q: Nidalee tosses her javelin, dealing magic damage on impact (deals up to 250% damage the further away the target is). Nidalee's first spell is a long range poke that deals more damage the further it flies. The range is very long and the damage is great. Really strong ability.
Bushwack
W: Nidalee lays a trap that deals damage over 2 seconds, reveals the target, and reduces their armor and magic resistance for 12 seconds. Traps last for 4 minutes. Bushwack is a unique skill that acts as a semi ward. It gives vision of enemy champions if they step on it but it does not give vision if they walk past it. This ability also reveals stealth such as champions and wards. Try to place these as much as you can as they give map control and can kill wards.
Primal Surge
Nidalee heals an ally champion (can heal herself) and grants them bonus attack speed for 7 seconds. This is what makes Nidalee one of the strongest laners in the game. This heal has a 1-1.25 ratio and, with the right build, is the strongest single target heal in the game. It also gives a great bonus attack speed boost so using this when pushing towers or using it on your ranged dps is a great idea.
Aspect of the Cougar
Nidalee transforms herself into a cougar; gaining a new set of abilities, 10% dodge, and 20 movement speed in the process. This is what makes Nidalee such an interesting, apm intensive (not for us Starcraft players, though :D) champion. Since this skill has only a 3 second cooldown and costs no mana you want to be switching forms a lot to heal, bushwack, and poke with javelins.
Cougar Form
In cougar form Nidalee gains 3 abilities that cost 0 mana. When in cougar Nidalee is extremely hard to chase down, has A LOT of burst, and farms creep waves quick.
Takedown
Nidalee's next attack deals additional damage based on how low her opponent's life is (up to 200%). This skill is the strongest part of your cougar form combo. You click Q and your next attack will deal extra. Use this anytime an enemy champion comes close enough for you to Q them (Use your pounce to get closer).
Pounce
Nidalee lunges forward, dealing magic damage to surrounding enemies. Pounce is a very useful skill that gives Nidalee a lot of map control. You can pounce around the map every 3 second for no cost to get anywhere you want very quickly. Also, you can pounce through walls, sort of like flash. There's also a trick that many Nidalee players don't know, pounce makes a different noise when you land on something. If you pounce on a ward or a stealth champion it will make the same noise it makes when you land on a creep/champion. Use this to pounce into an area that people generally ward and listen, if you hear the noise throw down a bushwack and kill it.
Swipe
Nidelee claws at enemies in front of her, dealing magic damage. Swipe is another part of your combo. You walk up to a champion, pounce on them, takedown and then swipe. You swipe last because it has a decent range. It also does AoE so it is great for clearing creepwaves to push towers.
Aspect of the Cougar
Nidalee transforms herself back into a human, regaining her set of abilities, losing 20 movement speed, and losing 10% dodge in the process. Same as your ulti when in human form, you can switch back to human for free on a 4 second cooldown. Learning when to change forms is essential for being a good Nidalee.
Post guides, pictures, discussions, w.e you want in this thread.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ShakeDrizzle's Ap Nid guide here. Example of how you can pounce here.
You can also go 9/0/21 but I go 9 in defense since nidalee trades a lot of hits early on in laning and the extra armor helps. Ghost/Flash
Runes: Up to you but I run Apen reds, armor yellows, flat mr glyphs, Apen quints.
Skilling: lvl 1 W or E (depends if you have a jungler that needs bushwack's to watch our for enemies). Max R>E>Q>W, get a point in w at lvl 1 or 2 and keep it there. Don't waste mana on Javelin toss early because it is very weak before you max it.
Laning Phase: Take a solo lane (preferably solo top). Grab dorans ring and hp potion. You want to harras your opponent non-stop with your auto-attacks. Since you have apen reds your auto-attacks do a lot of dmg, especially when you heal your self for an attack speed boost. Just keep harrasing with auto attacks and don't be afraid of tanking minion hits because you have a heal and they don't. (most of the time.) When you hit lvl 6 you want your opponent to be at around half health because you can get an extremely easy kill. Stand behind his creeps and pounce, takedown, swipe any time he tries to go in exp range.
When you kill your opponent/force him to back multiple times/kill turret you want to go back and shop. Buy Merc Threads and 1-2 wards. Nidalee is extremely strong early game so you want to abuse this by roaming. You tell your jungler to take your lane and you go ward the other teams jungler's red and blue. If any of the buffs are up, take them. If not wait for them to go up and gank him when he tries to get them.
After you get some kills/buffs and your team is ready to teamfight, go buy your Rageblade and start building your Deathcap or Lichbane, depends on what you want. I usually go Lichbane if the other team has many turrets that I need to kill fast with Lich procs. Go push a lane extremely far. If you have red or blue buff you can beat any champion 1v1 just by out harrasing them with your heal/spear. When you force him to b, kill the turret and move down to the inhib turret. You push very fast because of cougar/attack speed boost so abuse this.
Tips and Tricks. ~You can pounce through many walls. Practice all the different spots you can pounce through. Dragon cave/Baron cave/Blue buff wall/ etc... This is really important, it gives you great map control and allows you to push mindlessly because no one will catch a ghost flash nid that can jump through walls. ~Keep your Rageblade at 8 stacks at all times using pounce. If you are at 0 stacks and are about to gank someone or fight, charge it up by dropping bushwack, switching forms, swipe, takedown, pounce. ~Don't be brave, you're a flee! ~Solo queue relies on feeding off of bads. Nidalee is great at this so be on look out for who's bad and hawk him down!
Max E first, take solo lane, take a lot of armor pen, open d-ring, autoattack the enemy carry. After the first trade you should be down some health, do not immediately heal yourself, wait for next trade, heal at the beggining of it to get effect of heal and attack speed. minions will hit you a lot, so get dodge or armor. zone zone zone zone. guinsoo's is great, infinity stack with pounce spam. that's about the gist of being the best laner in the game imo.
mid/late game just lay traps and get lich bane and then push towers like crazy. you benefit from having a well coordinated team that will be able to feint often and busy the other team with false team fights etc while you do your nidalee thang. flash/ghost/cougar/pounce/passive = escape from everything. get quicksilver sash if you really wanna just afk at their fountain and still be able to get away when all 5 try to come and kill you.
Nidalee actually has an unlisted passive for her second form that not many people know about - when she's in her beast form, everyone who lanes with her gets more experience.
On November 05 2010 13:11 gtrsrs wrote: Nidalee actually has an unlisted passive for her second form that not many people know about - when she's in her beast form, everyone who lanes with her gets more experience.
What should Nidalee be doing during teamfights? Stand back and heal/jav? Cougar and dive at the carry? Stay back until the scatter-chase part happens and then cougar? Let them 4v5 while you take a tower? I've been enjoying Nid but when teamfights start I just feel silly.
On November 05 2010 14:45 seppolevne wrote: What should Nidalee be doing during teamfights? Stand back and heal/jav? Cougar and dive at the carry? Stay back until the scatter-chase part happens and then cougar? Let them 4v5 while you take a tower? I've been enjoying Nid but when teamfights start I just feel silly.
I chuck javelins from behind walls in the forest and constantly heal our carry/dps. Then I use Cougar form when they scatter to chase down the squishiest/most damaged target.
Or I just go push a lane while the teamfight is happening. Elixr of Agility + E + maxed guinsoos = a lot of fast dead towers. I've found this ends up doing more then just chucking random spears into teamfights.
But landing a full range spear on their squishy is pretty great if you can do it. If you aren't landing spears/contributing anything I'd just go push a lane
Is it wise to push a tower rather than contribute to a team fight though? I can only see it being good if you're team is just getting stomped in team fights regardless of your presence
Grab an early tear with nidalee, cougar form abilities proc the +mana and you spam those a lot to get GRB stacks goin anyways. It's always nice to have a large mana pool to spam those spears.
Nidalee's Javelin can be painful to squishy targets hiding around a tower and can even lead to kills against runaways if they manage to get away from you. I highly suggest that first-time Nidalee players get in the habit of leading any moving targets with that skill. It takes practice and sometimes a little luck, but it is extremely satisfying when done right. Much more so with an AP build.
Items: Tear is a good suggestion for her, due to mana regen, an expanding mana pool for more Javelins and Primal Surges, and perhaps building it into a Manamune (haven't tried that item extensively, though).
Rylai's Crystal Scepter should also be considered. With used with Bushwack traps, runaways that trip it will be slowed down and cornered for the kill, and along with pursuers having even more trouble reaching you, they can help your team in a retreat. In rare cases, enemies with very low health will die from it. Also, getting to slow down targets at range with a Javelin is helpful if you can't shift into Cougar form at the moment. Of course, it shouldn't have to be said that the slow is great with Cougar form when hunting down fleeing enemies.
Regarding teamfights, I'll usually stick with the team to help them push towers. Using Javelin to harass lighter enemies, they'll be given a choice to retreat or stick around to die. When actually pushing a tower, I can Primal Surge the nearest teammate with ample attack power and make it go down faster. Or if a teammate's taken damage, I can heal them with the same ability. While they're pushing a tower, I might break off to lay some Bushwack traps around our general area of engagement for early warnings on ambushes.
Again, an AP build really shines on Nidalee here, particularly with select human form abilities and all Cougar form abilities.
No, tears is awful on Nidalee. She does not have mana problems and tears is an awful AP item unless you NEED the mana, which you don't.
As for teamfights, I try not to teamfight as AP nidalee which is why I only play Nid in AT 5v5. If I go Tank Nidalee then I teamfight. I'll post a tank nid guide later today. But when you get in a fight as ap nid just go heal your carry and then try to jump in on theirs after your tank initiates. Just be careful about getting cc'd.
I also don't get Ryalis. After I finish lichbane/zhonyas then I'll stay double potted with 3 wards in my inventory at all time. Nidalee is very good at warding risky areas so use that.
lmfao someone (BEARbsq?) was joking to me on vent about nidalee's secret passive giving male lane partners more experience and i thought it was just a hilariously clever joke. i had no idea it was actually implemented in the game xmfd
i'll edit out my inaccurate posts just making shit up a couple posts up now
Rylai's seems pretty terrible on Nidalee. Early to mid game you can just take your team's red if you're gonna go ganking, and it's not like anyone's going to get away from you pouncing at them/flash Takedown. What spell would even provide a useful slow? Javelin? zz
Pretty sure I'd rather just get a Lich Bane for 300g more!
so fucking good lmao you hit like a truck and you're unkillable. you don't have as much atk speed to kill towers but sheen does fine. only downside is how much ur auto attack sucks.
lmfao someone (BEARbsq?) was joking to me on vent about nidalee's secret passive giving male lane partners more experience and i thought it was just a hilariously clever joke. i had no idea it was actually implemented in the game xmfd
i'll edit out my inaccurate posts just making shit up a couple posts up now
so fucking good lmao you hit like a truck and you're unkillable. you don't have as much atk speed to kill towers but sheen does fine. only downside is how much ur auto attack sucks.
I agree with Spirit Visage but I absolutely hate sheen unless I'm building it for Lichbane. I also think every Nidalee build needs Rageblade, it's just too good for her to not get.
On November 06 2010 08:14 TieN.nS) wrote: Rylai's seems pretty terrible on Nidalee. Early to mid game you can just take your team's red if you're gonna go ganking, and it's not like anyone's going to get away from you pouncing at them/flash Takedown. What spell would even provide a useful slow? Javelin? zz
Pretty sure I'd rather just get a Lich Bane for 300g more!
On November 06 2010 08:14 TieN.nS) wrote: Rylai's seems pretty terrible on Nidalee. Early to mid game you can just take your team's red if you're gonna go ganking, and it's not like anyone's going to get away from you pouncing at them/flash Takedown. What spell would even provide a useful slow? Javelin? zz
Pretty sure I'd rather just get a Lich Bane for 300g more!
all of cougar moves proc it i'm pretty sure
That doesn't make it good. I actually think it doesn't proc for takedown and swipe and pounce are aoe so it slows for only a little. Even if they all proc'd for full, you don't need a slow, you're Nidalee.
How the hell do you 1v1 top vs Morde? I can harass him a bunch with auto attack early on, but even if I get him to like half HP I can't go beast mode and try to kill him because he'll just pop his ult/ignite. Not to mention he pokes you so hard you're not much above half HP yourself.
On November 07 2010 11:49 Ruken wrote: How the hell do you 1v1 top vs Morde? I can harass him a bunch with auto attack early on, but even if I get him to like half HP I can't go beast mode and try to kill him because he'll just pop his ult/ignite. Not to mention he pokes you so hard you're not much above half HP yourself.
Yea Mord is actually pretty hard for Nidalee. If the mord is good you can't really do anything other than farm. Just make sure to autoattack quite a lot so he doesn't kill your tower.
On November 06 2010 08:14 TieN.nS) wrote: Rylai's seems pretty terrible on Nidalee. Early to mid game you can just take your team's red if you're gonna go ganking, and it's not like anyone's going to get away from you pouncing at them/flash Takedown. What spell would even provide a useful slow? Javelin? zz
Pretty sure I'd rather just get a Lich Bane for 300g more!
all of cougar moves proc it i'm pretty sure
That doesn't make it good. I actually think it doesn't proc for takedown and swipe and pounce are aoe so it slows for only a little. Even if they all proc'd for full, you don't need a slow, you're Nidalee.
I agree with you, just relating what I have seen on other Nidalees.
What do you suggest after mercs/zhonyas/RB/Lich Bane? Just survivability? there always seems to be this awful situation where you can't go into a fight in cougar because they'll kill you in a second and you can't really stay back because they won't be silly enough to just get hit by randomly chucked javelins. do you turn into a ranged dps late game? autoattack range seems awfully short. It seems that your javelins can do an incredible amount of damage if you can hit there ashe/corki/ranged dps/squishy but that's a pretty big IF and that if they have better-than-slothlike reaction time you really won't.
basically, what can you do lategame when its not safe to push solo becasue you've already killed many towers and the enemy team is strong enough that trusting your team to be able to hold a 4v5 is impractical. Is this the kinda thing where you should try to give your team a strong enough start that you can propel your late game characters?
Shake, what is your opinion on IE? I remember eseka consistently getting it (before rageblade? not sure) in an otherwise standard altho slightly elixir-heavy build, which made him a beast in the midgame when he could still poke with E+autoattacks. It looked... pretty expensive but it was damn worth it even lategame when he'd use it to BD.
On November 06 2010 08:14 TieN.nS) wrote: Rylai's seems pretty terrible on Nidalee. Early to mid game you can just take your team's red if you're gonna go ganking, and it's not like anyone's going to get away from you pouncing at them/flash Takedown. What spell would even provide a useful slow? Javelin? zz
Pretty sure I'd rather just get a Lich Bane for 300g more!
all of cougar moves proc it i'm pretty sure
That doesn't make it good. I actually think it doesn't proc for takedown and swipe and pounce are aoe so it slows for only a little. Even if they all proc'd for full, you don't need a slow, you're Nidalee.
I agree with you, just relating what I have seen on other Nidalees.
What do you suggest after mercs/zhonyas/RB/Lich Bane? Just survivability? there always seems to be this awful situation where you can't go into a fight in cougar because they'll kill you in a second and you can't really stay back because they won't be silly enough to just get hit by randomly chucked javelins. do you turn into a ranged dps late game? autoattack range seems awfully short. It seems that your javelins can do an incredible amount of damage if you can hit there ashe/corki/ranged dps/squishy but that's a pretty big IF and that if they have better-than-slothlike reaction time you really won't.
basically, what can you do lategame when its not safe to push solo becasue you've already killed many towers and the enemy team is strong enough that trusting your team to be able to hold a 4v5 is impractical. Is this the kinda thing where you should try to give your team a strong enough start that you can propel your late game characters?
I really like Tank Nid nowadays. I go any tank item like Spirit Visage (perfect for Nidalee), omen, GA, banshees, frozen heart. If I am playing Nid and games go that long I'd double pot, and then some random tank Item. There are really no more AP items that I need since PS heals for insane amounts at that point.
As for really late game, you can always really push a tower no matter how far if your ghost/flash is up, just watch for TF. If the game is sort of a stalemate where you are killing inhibs but can't finish the game, you're sort of screwed . Just abuse your mobility to ward everywhere and try to gank someone with your team.
On November 07 2010 12:39 r33k wrote: Shake, what is your opinion on IE? I remember eseka consistently getting it (before rageblade? not sure) in an otherwise standard altho slightly elixir-heavy build, which made him a beast in the midgame when he could still poke with E+autoattacks. It looked... pretty expensive but it was damn worth it even lategame when he'd use it to BD.
I've only seen 1 dps Nid and she did really good. I don't do it though because I'm awful at ranged dps, auto-attacking is too hard haha. I feel like what Nidalee has going for her is her amazing heal and it's base heal is just terrible so you need AP.
Speaking about full-out AP, last month I encountered a full-out AP nid who went for something like tear rush into archangels into zhonyas and she did pretty good. She would use her trap as an aoe slow, it was pretty interesting. The heals were pretty ridiculous aswell, I remember getting caught 3v5 by a respawn and raping everyone with heals filling 60% of my health everytime, it was quite fun.
Note that I'm not advertising any of these builds as the right way to go, just saying that they worked nonetheless. Nidalee is a character that can be fiddled with a lot, and her role changes very much depending on how you built her.
It is a sad day. Just got rid of my Nidalee runes to make room for Rammus. It's so hard to fit Nidalee into a team comp and she is really bad in solo queue. Hoping for Nidalee buffs :X. Still a really fun and interesting champ though.
I picked up nidalee after catching her in that AR inhouse and it's been a LOAD of fun lol. I love how strong her level 6 is, she basically forces a kill or takes her tower whenever she feels like it as soon as she farms her rageblade. A perpetual 8 stacks of rageblade is so huge to both dps and your heals. I dunno what to do with her after I win my lane and push 2 towers though, it seems like going from killing people to healing and poking people is a regression and she's a huge buff hog. I've been thinking about trying out a more tanky or dps nidalee, the zhonya's thing hasn't really been working that well for me although sometimes I'll hit a miracle spear from across two walls to kill a carry and lol for like 2 minutes.
On November 06 2010 08:14 TieN.nS) wrote: Rylai's seems pretty terrible on Nidalee. Early to mid game you can just take your team's red if you're gonna go ganking, and it's not like anyone's going to get away from you pouncing at them/flash Takedown. What spell would even provide a useful slow? Javelin? zz
Pretty sure I'd rather just get a Lich Bane for 300g more!
all of cougar moves proc it i'm pretty sure
That doesn't make it good. I actually think it doesn't proc for takedown and swipe and pounce are aoe so it slows for only a little. Even if they all proc'd for full, you don't need a slow, you're Nidalee.
I agree with you, just relating what I have seen on other Nidalees.
What do you suggest after mercs/zhonyas/RB/Lich Bane? Just survivability? there always seems to be this awful situation where you can't go into a fight in cougar because they'll kill you in a second and you can't really stay back because they won't be silly enough to just get hit by randomly chucked javelins. do you turn into a ranged dps late game? autoattack range seems awfully short. It seems that your javelins can do an incredible amount of damage if you can hit there ashe/corki/ranged dps/squishy but that's a pretty big IF and that if they have better-than-slothlike reaction time you really won't.
basically, what can you do lategame when its not safe to push solo becasue you've already killed many towers and the enemy team is strong enough that trusting your team to be able to hold a 4v5 is impractical. Is this the kinda thing where you should try to give your team a strong enough start that you can propel your late game characters?
The great thing about Nidalee, is that with Doran's Ring, Rageblade, and Merc Treads, she's pretty much set until lvl 18. You can abuse your self sufficiency by delaying your item purchases to counter-buy what your opponents.
I've had games where I've stocked thousands upon thousands of gold before ever returning back to base to buy more. I had plenty of opportunities, but staying out in the field was the superior choice and got me a very large gold advantage.
On December 03 2010 08:34 HazMat wrote: I see what you're saying. Nidalee should always get Sunfire first item to solve her farming problems. I wish I was as smart as you broess
nidalee has farming problems? how? cougar form rapes creep waves =/
also, GA has a lot of other benefits outside of the absolute mathematical gains of the item. damaging a nidalee with GA is wasting damage but you also can't really ignore her either. when you finally do die though the 3 seconds between dying and reviving takes the focus off of you so that you can plan what to do next while enemies attack other stuff.
also, you have to understand that GA gives a lot more effective HP than people perceive since nobody actually does exactly enough damage to kill you. people usually use a bunch of spells to kill you off and any damage done outside of your hp is wasted damage... if you know what i'm saying.
On December 03 2010 08:34 HazMat wrote: I see what you're saying. Nidalee should always get Sunfire first item to solve her farming problems. I wish I was as smart as you broess
nidalee has farming problems? how? cougar form rapes creep waves =/
also, GA has a lot of other benefits outside of the absolute mathematical gains of the item. damaging a nidalee with GA is wasting damage but you also can't really ignore her either. when you finally do die though the 3 seconds between dying and reviving takes the focus off of you so that you can plan what to do next while enemies attack other stuff.
also, you have to understand that GA gives a lot more effective HP than people perceive since nobody actually does exactly enough damage to kill you. people usually use a bunch of spells to kill you off and any damage done outside of your hp is wasted damage... if you know what i'm saying.
Oh I was joking haha. And I understand but I like the bonuses from SV and Omen. Stronger heals, cdr, a slow etc..
On December 03 2010 08:34 HazMat wrote: I see what you're saying. Nidalee should always get Sunfire first item to solve her farming problems. I wish I was as smart as you broess
nidalee has farming problems? how? cougar form rapes creep waves =/
also, GA has a lot of other benefits outside of the absolute mathematical gains of the item. damaging a nidalee with GA is wasting damage but you also can't really ignore her either. when you finally do die though the 3 seconds between dying and reviving takes the focus off of you so that you can plan what to do next while enemies attack other stuff.
also, you have to understand that GA gives a lot more effective HP than people perceive since nobody actually does exactly enough damage to kill you. people usually use a bunch of spells to kill you off and any damage done outside of your hp is wasted damage... if you know what i'm saying.
Oh I was joking haha. And I understand but I like the bonuses from SV and Omen. Stronger heals, cdr, a slow etc..
man owned by sarcasm... hmm SV and Omen sounds ineresting. but i've made it known that i think CDR is super overrated (even more so with pounce no effected) so we'll see.
I still think it's 100 retarded that pounce isn't affected by CDR. If I were a Nid player I would be making threads on leagueoflegends.com like every day about how that's stupid contrived bullshit and she's not even good atm anyway.
Hotshotgg has been posting a lot about riot needing to make pounce effected by cdr recently. Sadly, Phreak thinks Nidalee's problem is all the aoe cc's that were so strong before this patch. He probably thinks they buffed Nidalee with this patch >.<
I think Spirit Visage is super-strong on any character with innate healing, even if the CDR is only useful for some of your skills. It's a cheap package that gives HP, Mres, CDR and a healing boost.
So, I don't think the new skin is as bad as some other say but it feels weird as if the animation got messed with or the model is longer now.
I've been going 9/0/21 with Mpen reds, mp5/lvl yellows, MR/lvl blues, 2 Mpen Quint and one HP Quint(because I lack in quints...). My items are as follows: -Dring -boots1 -NLR or BW -boots3 or merc treads (& mana crystal if I have between 500-700g) -Deathcap -Lichbane
Skills are taken WEQ, and from then on determined by the lane. If it is an aggressive lane I'll take R>E>Q>W and passive I'll take R>Q>E>W but still getting E to rank 3 before maxing Q.
I don't have very many games played on her so far but the build has been working very nicely on her. Any thoughts on why her new skin is weird or how bad my build is?
Take a look at the Nidalee's leg on the right. Look at the knee, shin, and foot. Yeah, she must have some really painful broken bones...
As for playing Nid, is it just me or did it get infinitely harder to pounce around the jungle sometime between June and now? I used to be able to do it with low risk of failure (back when I played Nid in June) but now I can hardly succeed...
Take a look at the Nidalee's leg on the right. Look at the knee, shin, and foot. Yeah, she must have some really painful broken bones...
As for playing Nid, is it just me or did it get infinitely harder to pounce around the jungle sometime between June and now? I used to be able to do it with low risk of failure (back when I played Nid in June) but now I can hardly succeed...
Now that's all I'll look at... sigh. Do you mean pouncing over walls? I can't seem to be able to get over any walls that aren't very tiny.
Well, there were some parts of some of the thinner walls that Nid could hop through, i.e. around golem, baron, dragon, wraiths, and such, and while I can still hop in those places it's a lot harder for me now than it used to be. Maybe I'm just out of practice I don't know.
On January 12 2011 00:29 Scorcher2k wrote: So, I don't think the new skin is as bad as some other say but it feels weird as if the animation got messed with or the model is longer now.
I've been going 9/0/21 with Mpen reds, mp5/lvl yellows, MR/lvl blues, 2 Mpen Quint and one HP Quint(because I lack in quints...). My items are as follows: -Dring -boots1 -NLR or BW -boots3 or merc treads (& mana crystal if I have between 500-700g) -Deathcap -Lichbane
Skills are taken WEQ, and from then on determined by the lane. If it is an aggressive lane I'll take R>E>Q>W and passive I'll take R>Q>E>W but still getting E to rank 3 before maxing Q.
I don't have very many games played on her so far but the build has been working very nicely on her. Any thoughts on why her new skin is weird or how bad my build is?
Why no rageblade :o It's a stupid good item on her since she's always at 8 stacks and helps with farming/pushing which is Nidalee's forte's. And the skin... I want Snow Bunny Nidalee so badly .
On January 12 2011 06:43 phyvo wrote: Well, there were some parts of some of the thinner walls that Nid could hop through, i.e. around golem, baron, dragon, wraiths, and such, and while I can still hop in those places it's a lot harder for me now than it used to be. Maybe I'm just out of practice I don't know.
Haven't noticed but it could be due to the halloween map?
Are you sure about Rageblade that late? With this build and by the time you get GRB you probably won't be fighting at melee range a whole lot, so you might be better off building a Deathcap instead.
The reason I didn't build rageblade is because I felt like it was forcing me into an annoying style of play where it was simply always good to spam shit off for no reason. While it may give a benefit, it was annoying as hell. Not to mention the fact that Deathcap is just insanely good.
I hopped on my main to play a game today and captain banned Nidalee because I said I wanted to play her. Worth the queue dodge penalty. Will do though.
Every time I play Nid I feel as though I'm doing no damage.
How aggressive should you play in a duo lane? Make it a top priority to zone with autoattacks/spears? Or does she play back and harass as they last hit?
Had a game today where it felt like I landed every spear. I killed their singed over the course our retreat with two spears, then one just as he broke off to run away.
Is there possibly a more sastisfying sound in this game than that "KCHUNK"? I don't think there is. Nidalee, I have missed your shenanigans...
I love when you're pouncing and you keep hearing the same old sound until you land on a ward and hear that really cool sound and kill the ward. I love that sound.
So... I'm sitting at 10k IP thinking of something to do with it, I check out some of the guides on here - never really thought of playing Nidalee...
But I read the OP and thought "what the hell, I'm not doing anything else with my IP why not give her a shot - I've already got the runepage anyway so it's just 3k IP". So I pick her up and head to a custom game... and oh man is she fun.
First try and I'm loving the amount of APM she needs, and that sound when you mow down Soraka bot with a long range Q is just great.
On February 01 2011 02:27 Dgiese wrote: So... I'm sitting at 10k IP thinking of something to do with it, I check out some of the guides on here - never really thought of playing Nidalee...
But I read the OP and thought "what the hell, I'm not doing anything else with my IP why not give her a shot - I've already got the runepage anyway so it's just 3k IP". So I pick her up and head to a custom game... and oh man is she fun.
First try and I'm loving the amount of APM she needs, and that sound when you mow down Soraka bot with a long range Q is just great.
So yeah, ty for this thread.
Agreed, I don't know why I held off on getting her for so long. Just don't get the new skin for her because the model and animations are horrible... I found that she, funny enough, plays a lot like a druid in WoW.
On February 01 2011 02:27 Dgiese wrote: So... I'm sitting at 10k IP thinking of something to do with it, I check out some of the guides on here - never really thought of playing Nidalee...
But I read the OP and thought "what the hell, I'm not doing anything else with my IP why not give her a shot - I've already got the runepage anyway so it's just 3k IP". So I pick her up and head to a custom game... and oh man is she fun.
First try and I'm loving the amount of APM she needs, and that sound when you mow down Soraka bot with a long range Q is just great.
So yeah, ty for this thread.
Sweet, glad to get more people playing Nid.
As for the skin, I just use a custom skin Snow Bunny Nidalee (it's exactly the same but only I can see it.) Though if I got the chance to buy the skin I would.
magic pen reds and quints mana regen/lvl yellows ap/lvl blues
doran ring->mercs->RAGEblade/archangels->deathcap this shit is ur core,once again dont fucking waiver from this shit after this u can consider voidstaff: most common follow up,makes sense too since u dont take the 15% pen lichbane: real high ap->real high damage *rageblade get this before deathcap if ur gonna need to dominate the midgame and the other solo sucks *archangles get tear before deathcap and get this if ur mid solo is doing good
R>E>Q>W get W at level 1 for map coverage
ghost/flash
Teachings of Hotnoob 1. hide in brush(for ms boost and suprise factor) come out and poke the enemy solo,take 1 hit,heal,hit more. this is ur bread and butter exchange hits and come out on top,solo lane technique 2. at 6,go for their blue or ur blue(depending on what side ur on),u can go for red instead if u want,jump the dragon or baron ledge for quick access and escape 3. spam ur trap near the ward spot at top lane to scout for junglers and find their top ward 4. with flash and ghost nidalee is near uncatchable,push out and aggressively ward their side of the map during midgame 5. during a push go behind one of the walls in mid lanes and keep throwing spears from the side,this prevents the enemy from defending their towers and gives ur ranged carry space to siege their tower,works 200% better with blue buff 6. ur heal is fucking ridiculous,don't heal too early(i see this happening too often),if u heal too early people can just switch targets and u most likely "overhealed"(say ur heal,heals for 700,some1 is at 500/1000 hp,and u healed them,u "overhealed" for 200 hp) 7. call ur teammates noobs and steal loco's cam-while-streaming technique 8. get carried in wcg and neweggs
IIRC hotshot takes arpen reds for early lane dominance depdnging on matchups ; he's also said that rushing deathcap is viable, if you're looking to win via early-mid game right click dominance rageblade is better.
On February 02 2011 04:08 HazMat wrote: When did hotshot switch from apen/dodge/flat cd/apen? And when did he start going tear....
i've seen him go tear, but he never really explained why lol makes sense when his mid is doing gud because AA is certainly better for the lategame (and makes u a more spammy bitch without blue)
when hsgg was at 2198 elo and wanted to get plat he asked me to duo him on a smurf,and i agreed since im a pal~ we won 3 games in a row and he got plat hsgg wanted plat uber badly,i highly highly doubt this is a "fun and troll" build i asked him about the nid build he used and this is the exact build he told me and as for spear nidalee, u get behind the ledge behind the 2 tower,left for dragon side,right for baron side,(i forget the colors) and u throw spears while u team pushs,forcing the enemy team to engage or give up free tower,if they decide to engage,well...u were pushing cuz u had the lead so u should be able to win the fight pretty easily~
On February 01 2011 21:07 locodoco wrote: Hotnoob(HotshotGG) Nidalee
0/9/21 SoS op yo
magic pen reds and quints mana regen/lvl yellows ap/lvl blues
doran ring->mercs->RAGEblade/archangels->deathcap this shit is ur core,once again dont fucking waiver from this shit after this u can consider voidstaff: most common follow up,makes sense too since u dont take the 15% pen lichbane: real high ap->real high damage *rageblade get this before deathcap if ur gonna need to dominate the midgame and the other solo sucks *archangles get tear before deathcap and get this if ur mid solo is doing good
R>E>Q>W get W at level 1 for map coverage
ghost/flash
Teachings of Hotnoob 1. hide in brush(for ms boost and suprise factor) come out and poke the enemy solo,take 1 hit,heal,hit more. this is ur bread and butter exchange hits and come out on top,solo lane technique 2. at 6,go for their blue or ur blue(depending on what side ur on),u can go for red instead if u want,jump the dragon or baron ledge for quick access and escape 3. spam ur trap near the ward spot at top lane to scout for junglers and find their top ward 4. with flash and ghost nidalee is near uncatchable,push out and aggressively ward their side of the map during midgame 5. during a push go behind one of the walls in mid lanes and keep throwing spears from the side,this prevents the enemy from defending their towers and gives ur ranged carry space to siege their tower,works 200% better with blue buff 6. ur heal is fucking ridiculous,don't heal too early(i see this happening too often),if u heal too early people can just switch targets and u most likely "overhealed"(say ur heal,heals for 700,some1 is at 500/1000 hp,and u healed them,u "overhealed" for 200 hp) 7. call ur teammates noobs and steal loco's cam-while-streaming technique 8. get carried in wcg and neweggs
loco, seeing as how you play with one of the best nidalees in the game, you should be really good with nidalee, right?
So I played my first couple of ranked games with Nid today... and damn, she's awesome. It's impossible to lane against her because she actually does have infinity health.
One of her main benefits that I would was her ability to escape anything, not in that i didn't die. But I would push the shit out of top and the other team would go "OHHH A NIDALEE PUSHING TOP!! LET'S GET HER" and 3-4 would run up and try to gank me... sometimes I'd die (I'm shit and wall jumping) sometimes i'd escape, but the main thing was that while they were ganking me my team were free to do whatever they wanted, such as pushing towers or getting dragon.
I just got Nid last night and played a couple games with her.
I'm having trouble reliably jumping walls, like into and out of the baron's pit etc. Should i try and get as close to the wall as possible and then jump or do you need to jump when you're back a bit?
When I play Corki as well it seems like sometimes if I'm too close to the wall and try and jump he won't make it. Overall I'm having a lot more trouble jumping anything as Nid.
with corki, valkyrie will jump you to the location your cursor was at. if you valk and click right next to yourself, even tho the arrow is at maximum distance, you will go nowhere, so remember this for wall jumping. idk about nid tho, i hardly ever play her
On February 10 2011 23:33 barbsq wrote: with corki, valkyrie will jump you to the location your cursor was at. if you valk and click right next to yourself, even tho the arrow is at maximum distance, you will go nowhere, so remember this for wall jumping. idk about nid tho, i hardly ever play her
Well thanks for that advice in the nidalee thread then.
But yeah, anyone got any good walljumping advice or is it just practice?
Practice helps. Basically, the two most important requirements are: you must be jumping over the right portion of a wall, and you must be facing the correct direction. Getting super close to the wall is actually bad because more often then not Nid will bug and then jump the wrong way entirely, and there aren't any walls where being super close makes a difference. Not that you can be super lazy about it, but the other factors are actually more important.
Dragon and Baron each only have two places in the back you can jump over, but the heavily tree-ed sides facing the outer lanes are impossible to jump over, don't bother. Both jump points are actually somewhat narrow though so it's important to know where they are, if you don't have some practice with it you just won't know where to go.
Probably the hardest jump for me is leaving blue golem towards river while you're doing blue, just because it's so easy to misclick on a minion or get a bad angle and screw up, and usually when you need to do that it's when there are enemies nearby and you really need to get out of there.
You have to walk up to the edge and pounce. I actually have some pics saved of places where you can pounce from a while ago, though I did not finish it.
Thanks for the pics, Another thing bout jumping, do you have to be directly perpendicular to the wall that you are jumping, or is a slight angle ok on most of them?
I've been going Triforce/BV/Omen, sometimes with a rageblade first and it's worked much better than AP or rageblade/AP Nid. I think AP works for HotshotGG because he always gets fed. Throwing spears and kiting doesn't seem to do much otherwise, and when everyone has a BV it's pretty much useless except for popping bubbles.
Going tanky is nice because you still get a lot of her teamfight utility (free void staff/lw and attack speed buff on carry, and you can still pop bubbles with spear) but you can also go all tanky DPS on their carry. And she gets even more ridiculous at pushing lanes (her other lategame role) since you can escape from absolutely anything with cougar triforce movespeed, Randuin's slow and spell shield.
What's the point of playing nidalee if you aren't aiming for 1k damage 1HKO spears? Besides, what makes splitpushing with her so strong is that she a very powerfull 1v1 champion, so if they send only one person, you can kill him kiting with spears and healing, at the worst you will still be exerting alot of pressure and not dying. Being tanky certainly helps to escape if they send more than one, but even with no survivability she will still not get caught. I guess what i am trying to say is I knid of uderstand how you play her, but if you're tank, you're not doing alot of damage, and since the only thing you can do is a mediocre heal, people are going to ignore you.
You don't get ridiculous spears unless you're really fed, and I can't count on getting really fed because I'm not HotshotGG, and also if you're really fed you pretty much build anything.
I can see the point about 1v1 though. But for teamfights, all she ends up doing is healing and spamming spear/trap, while building tanky lets her actually jump in before the teamfight is over. She still does a lot of damage to squishies, and getting lots of AP doesn't really increase it.
There's no reason to not be fed as Nidalee. Her roaming and creep killing is unmatched as long as her cougar levels and minor AP gains outpace the rate at which minion wave HP increases (such that she can kill casters in w/e combo). Getting kills and assists are just extra and come naturally with that much farm/gold.
Any character with Triforce/BV/Omen is going to be a bit tanky... It's just that most chars will be more useful than Nid when wearing them. I'd rather have an Annie wearing that gear than Nid. At least Annie can AoE stun.
I think you're very mistaken if you believe that AP works for Hotshot simply because he always gets fed. AP works because it's a superior option by a very wide margin.
The game changed a bit since then yo. Tank nidalee was quite legit a while back beacuse she made an extremely annoying anticarry for the enemy ranged DPS and with a little farm could easily just roam around the map with red buff and kill any loner on sight with 100% success. You can't make up your mind whether to focus her or not because there was a high probability of her escaping off and then healing and reentering the fray after you wasted a bunch of spells.
Can't do that vs tanky champs so much.
Deathcap also changed the game a lot, since back then a full AP nid meant getting zhonya's rings which the active is obviously not that useful for nid.
On April 12 2011 04:50 starfries wrote: I never said I had trouble killing minions -________-
and you really would prefer triforce tank annie??
No, I'm just saying she's more useful than Tank Nid.
I didn't mean she'd be an actual tank, she has zero CC and zero initiation so she's like the worst "tank" there is lol
It's more along the lines that building triforce tank makes anyone into a tanky DPS, and since cougar form Nid has good base damage and terrible ratios she benefits more from this sort of build.
tbh though now I'm thinking rageblade is a necessity to capitalize on her early/mid game, and also triforce isn't that much better than a sheen since she doesn't need a slow, so I build rageblade/sheen/hog/catalyst into randuins/bv. The hog/randuin's nerfs are going to be a pain though.
Your tank nid build is stupid because you go into melee range and can't tank, and have no survivability. AP nid has a transition into late game with OP heals and spear burst. Tank nid has literally nothing. The more effective thing to do is try to go as minimally tanky as possible while being unkillable to abuse cat form, and then transition into ap items. Versus tanky dps like renekton, you were able to tank a lot of his dmg with 1 or 2 HOG while winning the trade hits war, making him a useless little croc. But now you don't have a cost efficient item that gives tankyness + health.
why is rageblade such a staple in nidalee's build? i'd rather rush deathcap and lich bane to boost her amazing spear and heal, then use that to fuel cougar form. idk. i just trust human nid more than cougar nid, so maybe it's just me.
On April 13 2011 17:15 goldenkrnboi wrote: why is rageblade such a staple in nidalee's build? i'd rather rush deathcap and lich bane to boost her amazing spear and heal, then use that to fuel cougar form. idk. i just trust human nid more than cougar nid, so maybe it's just me.
Nidalee has the means to keep Rageblade at full stacks 100% of the time. This makes it a 2235 gold item that gives you 93 AP, 32% aspd, and 35 AD--by FAR the most cost-effective non-snowball item in the game. It's well worth the gold even if you're only getting minor benefits from the AS/AD (in this case, improving your ability to 1v1 people, clear enemy jungle, and solopush).
Besides, if you want to play spear nid the proper build goes something like AA->deathcap, but from HSGG's point of view spear Nid only works if your mid is winning. If you need to carry with midgame dominance GRB is just better.
Don't see the point in getting AA unless you aren't getting blue for some reason. Lately I've been skipping rageblade and going SS/Deathcap/Lichbane. Don't play her all that often though.
Rageblade gives you crazy push power, along with cost efficient dps. Or that's the reason. Everyone could just be getting it because hotshot gets it, even though it's not really all that useful if you can't push. You're not really going to be dealing dmg in fights, and it leaves you with no survivability ealier on if you can't make a move to pull you ahead.
You're going to be pushing a lot as Nidalee, and GRB is awesome for that. Also, as stated above, since you can keep it up 100% of the time with cougar form, there's no reason not to get it. Rageblade also helps you 1v1 the person they split off to defend your push so that you can eat their face and continue taking towers. If they split more than one, you shouldn't have a problem escaping because you're Nidalee.
On April 13 2011 20:34 phyvo wrote: Besides, if you want to play spear nid the proper build goes something like AA->deathcap, but from HSGG's point of view spear Nid only works if your mid is winning. If you need to carry with midgame dominance GRB is just better.
TreeEskimo was debating to himself yesterday whether to get GBR for pushing or rush Deathcap and win by poking to death.
Interestingly, his thought process was the opposite as yours - if my team is winning I can push like mad and keep forcing 4v4s that they'll win, if my team is losing I need to squish the other team before teamfights so we have an edge / force them back and take objectives.
I'm still toying with the idea, but right now I believe that GRB is no longer a good core item on Nidalee anymore thanks to Deathcap. Lately I've played under the basis that Deathcap is way too powerful on her to be delayed.
As long as she levels at a decent pace, Pounce and Swipe do enough damage for Nidalee to be a good pusher without any AP bonus. These abilities only scale with AP, and Rageblade gives +45-93 AP depending on stacks.
In practice, a pushing Nidalee is going to pounce/swipe the wave. This will kill caster minions outright, and weaken melee minions to where they're about 1 autoattack away from death. Takedown is used to reset the swing timer so you can get 2 last hits in a short timespan. You repeat this until you're at a tower. Rageblade doesn't help this process any more than an equivalent amount of AP from other items, and has the disadvantage of perhaps being uncharged. Pounce/Swipe will do a negligable amount of damage more with Rageblade versus a NLR. In terms of pushing, you're looking at the exact same sequence of events on minion waves with or without Rageblade. Dead casters & 1 autoattack-away-from-death melee. Given this, why do people say GRB is good for pushing?
The only benefit Rageblade provides in pushing is the boost to killing towers & harassing champions. This is very helpful, but, in my opinion, isn't as helpful as a faster Deathcap.
I suppose it depends on how the teams are. If you need to really drive an early advantage, GRB is a superior choice because it can be obtained earlier. If you're laning phase is super extended, RGB is superior because you'll eventually push the opponent out of the lane. If there is no sense of immediacy or longer laning, then Deathcap is superior.
What's this talk about Hotshot going Archangels? That was his "raise your ELO" build, was it not? He'd just throw spears from mid river all day? What was the exact build... did he actually go tear first?
You're assuming the lane is going to be free of resistance. GRB is good for pushing because you can 1v1 and drive back nearly anybody that is thrown at you, which allows you to push and take towers.
On April 14 2011 05:03 Lanzoma wrote: You're assuming the lane is going to be free of resistance. GRB is good for pushing because you can 1v1 and drive back nearly anybody that is thrown at you, which allows you to push and take towers.
I don't assume. I addressed that in my post. There are situations where GRB is superior, but I find them to be less frequent than situations where rushing Deathcap would be better.
The only benefit Rageblade provides in pushing is the boost to killing towers & harassing champions. This is very helpful, but, in my opinion, isn't as helpful as a faster Deathcap.
That is the only part that addresses the enemy champion. Sure, insta-nuking the waves is gonna happen either way, but if you can't put pressure on your opponent then it's just mutual farming and you're never going to reach that tower. Your analysis of either option is lacking on how the enemy is going to respond.
We're talking about approximately GRB vs Blasting Wand & NLR, in terms of cost.
In terms of stats, GRB option (8 stacks - no reason to not have them at 8) gives:
+35 damage +32% aspd - 27 AP
Creating a meaningful HP difference is what matters during laning exchanges, and the offensive stats create a bigger, faster disparity than a bit more AP for healing. Spears are irrelevant, you won't be hitting them in lane unless they're dumb or you're firing point-blank. After a few of these exchanges, they'll have to leave the lane / call for gank / ask jungler to cover their lane while they heal, all of which put you or your team ahead.
The question of what's more appropriate according to the situation is a different issue altogether. The point is, GRB's pushing power is not in how fast you can kill the creeps, but in how you can win the lane so convincingly that they can't stop you (or they waste too many resource trying to do so).
On April 13 2011 20:34 phyvo wrote: Besides, if you want to play spear nid the proper build goes something like AA->deathcap, but from HSGG's point of view spear Nid only works if your mid is winning. If you need to carry with midgame dominance GRB is just better.
TreeEskimo was debating to himself yesterday whether to get GBR for pushing or rush Deathcap and win by poking to death.
Interestingly, his thought process was the opposite as yours - if my team is winning I can push like mad and keep forcing 4v4s that they'll win, if my team is losing I need to squish the other team before teamfights so we have an edge / force them back and take objectives.
If you're talking about the magic spear game where he stole baron, he ended up getting GRB, which fits with the "I need to dominate midgame" thinking (his mid did terrible). What he actually debated in that game was lichbane vs deathcap and opted for deathcap because he didn't think split pushing was an option.
Full spear nid vs dominance nid is AA vs GRB, not GRB vs deathcap nor deathcap vs lichbane. Whether or not you split push is a different issue with a different set of factors and items behind it. The only thing that I imagine might be confusing is that spear nid is probably not as good at pushing as GRB nid is.
It's not really my line of thinking either. it's pulled directly from Locodoco's miniguide in this thread that he pulled from HSGG. It makes enough sense to me, but maybe HSGG does something slightly different now compared to a few months ago (even though Nidalee hasn't changed all that much), who knows.
So... for Nid I rune arpen, dodge and clarity (mp5 per lvl) with flat AP quints. I know it's a bit odd, but I generally end up midding and the arpen with AP quints make me a BEAST.
I then get a Rageblade if we don't have a tower-eater and go various AP items from there depending on the situation. If we have a tower-eater, I rush Deathcap and go spear/heal Nid.
About that rageblade business, what part do you pick first? i usually go for blasting wand but getting pickaxe first makes sense too. And do you finish boots2 before starting rageblade? or do you get 1 part and then finish boots? or even finish it before boots2?
I generally go back to base at 1.2k gold. If I'm midding against an AP, I'll go straight for merc treads and keep up my auto-harass (supplemented by my lovely arpen runes). If I'm midding against AD, I'll get my blasting wand first and lvl1 boots, unless I'm totally kicking their ass, then I'll get the pickaxe to take down their tower faster.
Generally, yes. But I think wand is just generally the way you want to go on her. It makes ur heals beastly, and super heals+ the aspeed bonus means tower dead anyway.
i do the same mastery/runes wise. BTW, i've seen hotsht getting boots+3 pots first in some games (ESL and another on his stream), and I was like WTF. why would you start boots 3 pots instead of dorans ring??? anyone can explain the reasoning (or lack of)?
On April 24 2011 08:29 Two_DoWn wrote: Generally, yes. But I think wand is just generally the way you want to go on her. It makes ur heals beastly, and super heals+ the aspeed bonus means tower dead anyway.
Btw- just checked hs profile:
Armpen reds/quints, dodge yellows, cdr blues
masteries: 0-9-21
What he seems to be running on her now.
Now? It's been the exact same set for over a year now.
And yeah you should get GRB, the autoattack dmg is pretty significant but most of all, it makes you a towerpushing machine.
On April 24 2011 08:32 SagaZ wrote: i do the same mastery/runes wise. BTW, i've seen hotsht getting boots+3 pots first in some games (ESL and another on his stream), and I was like WTF. why would you start boots 3 pots instead of dorans ring??? anyone can explain the reasoning (or lack of)?
probably just because nidalee's a pretty strong laner so if he knows he won't have a hard lane he can get away with boots first. doran's items are still a money sink remember.
also with dat passive move speed combined with boots boots first would make helping out in jungle/counterjungle much easier.
On April 24 2011 08:38 Two_DoWn wrote: I believe he made the switch from health to armpen following the nerf to health.
I'm almost certain that sometime before last summer I took notes of his runebuild and he already had apen quints oO maybe he switched back to health sometime afterwards?
On April 24 2011 08:32 SagaZ wrote: i do the same mastery/runes wise. BTW, i've seen hotsht getting boots+3 pots first in some games (ESL and another on his stream), and I was like WTF. why would you start boots 3 pots instead of dorans ring??? anyone can explain the reasoning (or lack of)?
probably just because nidalee's a pretty strong laner so if he knows he won't have a hard lane he can get away with boots first. doran's items are still a money sink remember.
also with dat passive move speed combined with boots boots first would make helping out in jungle/counterjungle much easier.
Bleh... it makes sense, but it would feel so weird to me...
Pots are nice and all, but I think it would take me forever to get used to playing Nid with pots early. I'm so used to judging my damage taken with my mana regen to keep my game as aggressive as possible while still being sustainable.
Proposed (not final) changes for Nidalee from Shurelia's sustain changes thread:
Nidalee * Javelin Toss ** Mana Cost reduced to 50/60/70/80/90 from 60/70/80/90/100 ** Cooldown reduced to 6 from 7 * Pounce ** May now be affected by cooldown reduction ** Cooldown increased to 3.5 from 3 * Primal Surge ** Mana cost changed to 60/80/100/120/140 ** Base heal changed to 50/85/120/155/190 from 60/90/120/150/180 ** AP ratio reduced to 0.7 from 1.25 * Swipe AP ratio increased to 0.4 from 0.2 * Aspect of the Cougar now grants 10/15/20 Armor and Magic Resist instead of 10% Dodge * General ** Cleaned up a lot of Nidalee's tooltips, especially Cougar form
Pretty brutal hit to heal but some potentially nice buffs (2 second pounce? yes please).
I like these changes. I main Nidalee but I'll be the first to admit that her laning power and lategame heals were just insane. It's great that Riot is trying to make her less of a support and more of a carry. Finally Pounce is affected by CDR again.
Maybe this will convince me to learn Nidalee, one of the champions I don't have and have no idea how to play (I have never played her nor saw someone play).
Think they could have hit her heal a little harder. Overall she is still an unkillable top champ that will spend all game long pushing the top lane with absolutely jack shit you can do about it.
I don't think this will make her sustain leave the ranks of lanewick or laneudyr.
2 second pounce will be very nice! Not just for the extra movespeed, but for the time reduced waiting on the cooldown so you can make a walljump. I know you Nidalee players have had the situation where you have 2-5 champions behind you and you have to stand looking at a wall for 1½ seconds because you made a jump a second ago to avoid a charge/stun etc.
I do think that the heal nerf is going to make early game Nidalee(pre-cat) play more passive since you'll run out of mana fast if you're too aggressive. Going to make an already boring lane way more boring.(I'm talking about 1v2 top since that's what I'm usually up against in lvl 30 normals). But yeah the nerf is probably needed beacuse her sustain in lane is very good right now and those lategame heals feel OP as hell when harassing team vs team and you just heal 60% of someones health everytime heal is of cd.
I would like to know what cooldownreduction item(s) you're thinking about buying and after/before which item.
I'm thinking morello's evil tome as your first or second item after boots(the other item being guinsoo's rage blade) the order depending on how your lane played out before you went to buy. A second cdr item will have to be thought out for those time you cant get bluebuff.
Edit: You might want to edit OP as, if I'm not wrong. bushwack doesn't unstealth wards anymore.
Uh ... maybe I'm missing something but isn't this just strictly worse than before?
Heal is WAAAYYYY worse than before. 20 armor/MR is more or less the same as 10% dodge, especially considering Nimbleness. Pounce CDR is nice but the average Nidalee build didn't have THAT much CDR by any means (at best maybe CDR blues). Swipe AP ratio is nice but you're still going to get fucked up the ass if you try to Cougar form in team fights.
On August 17 2011 17:02 arnath wrote: Uh ... maybe I'm missing something but isn't this just strictly worse than before?
Heal is WAAAYYYY worse than before. 20 armor/MR is more or less the same as 10% dodge, especially considering Nimbleness. Pounce CDR is nice but the average Nidalee build didn't have THAT much CDR by any means (at best maybe CDR blues). Swipe AP ratio is nice but you're still going to get fucked up the ass if you try to Cougar form in team fights.
Ya it's a nerf but I'm just glad she'll be more fun to play. I'm sure Hotshot is supa mad though.
lower cd and mana costs on spear makes it even gayer in prolonged fights over tower / objectives and changes to pounce will make it stronger with cdr ofc even-ish change imo if not a net positive considering that other heals are gonna get weakened making nidalee spears potentially super obnoxious-er than usual
On August 17 2011 16:36 Deranes wrote: 2 second pounce will be very nice! Not just for the extra movespeed, but for the time reduced waiting on the cooldown so you can make a walljump. I know you Nidalee players have had the situation where you have 2-5 champions behind you and you have to stand looking at a wall for 1½ seconds because you made a jump a second ago to avoid a charge/stun etc.
I do think that the heal nerf is going to make early game Nidalee(pre-cat) play more passive since you'll run out of mana fast if you're too aggressive. Going to make an already boring lane way more boring.(I'm talking about 1v2 top since that's what I'm usually up against in lvl 30 normals). But yeah the nerf is probably needed beacuse her sustain in lane is very good right now and those lategame heals feel OP as hell when harassing team vs team and you just heal 60% of someones health everytime heal is of cd.
I would like to know what cooldownreduction item(s) you're thinking about buying and after/before which item.
I'm thinking morello's evil tome as your first or second item after boots(the other item being guinsoo's rage blade) the order depending on how your lane played out before you went to buy. A second cdr item will have to be thought out for those time you cant get bluebuff.
Edit: You might want to edit OP as, if I'm not wrong. bushwack doesn't unstealth wards anymore.
Yeah like I said, this thread is outdated and I'll update it when these changes take place.
On August 17 2011 17:02 arnath wrote: Uh ... maybe I'm missing something but isn't this just strictly worse than before?
Heal is WAAAYYYY worse than before. 20 armor/MR is more or less the same as 10% dodge, especially considering Nimbleness. Pounce CDR is nice but the average Nidalee build didn't have THAT much CDR by any means (at best maybe CDR blues). Swipe AP ratio is nice but you're still going to get fucked up the ass if you try to Cougar form in team fights.
Nidalee often hogs blue buff. With just that she already has a lower cooldown on pounce. 20 AR/MR is way worse for Nid than 10% dodge because the Nimbleness procs are important for her ridiculous escapes.
On August 17 2011 18:10 spinesheath wrote: 20 AR/MR is way worse for Nid than 10% dodge because the Nimbleness procs are important for her ridiculous escapes.
I was literally just going to say that when I read this lol. It's the only change I really think is wrong.
Nidalee is pretty op'd, not gunna lie . Love hotshotgg's guide for it.
doran's ring, sorc boots (or merc treads), guinsoos, rabadons (if getting fed or farming a lot) otherwise get lichbane first, then a defensive item or voidstaff.
Nidalee is prolly my favorite champion, although she has the most skills of any champion, her cougar abilities are pretty simple to do, Just spam qwe over and over.
Skill progression, get 1 point in everything, (jav first), max heal first, then jav.
tips: Use cougar form to go everywhere! Use W,E,Q for maximum damage against champions. Always be farming! Put traps EVERYWHERE When there's a teamfight about to happen, always poke with javelin until the teamfight starts. Always be healing! Heal priorities: Yourself, carry's, tanks.
My point is this: without her crazy lane sustain, how is she going to lane top versus virtually any currently popular solo top? They almost doubled the mana cost of heal at max level and nearly halved the AP ratio.
I agree I want her to be more of a carry than she is now and nerfing the heal will eventually pave the way for that, but this seems like they're going to pull a "last patch Pantheon" where they strictly make him worse and then are like "try him and see how we can make him better".
All it means is she'll have to back like most normal heroes instead of going from level 1 to level 12 without every having to go back and heal while being ungankable.
But the point is, most of the heroes that solo top nowadays also don't ever have to go back (e.g., Udyr, Morde, Garen, Lee Sin, etc). You can't just nerf Nidalee's sustain because it happens to be a heal, ignore all the other ludicrous sustain skills/items, and expect her to still be useful.
On August 18 2011 03:14 arnath wrote: My point is this: without her crazy lane sustain, how is she going to lane top versus virtually any currently popular solo top? They almost doubled the mana cost of heal at max level and nearly halved the AP ratio.
I agree I want her to be more of a carry than she is now and nerfing the heal will eventually pave the way for that, but this seems like they're going to pull a "last patch Pantheon" where they strictly make him worse and then are like "try him and see how we can make him better".
This. Her heal is what makes her in the late game, since you want here to be in the back launching javs and healing teammates. when eveything goes to shit you pop into cougar and clean up.
Honestly I don't think her heal is that op early game, maybe when she start rolling with ap but I feel everything scales pretty well unless she gets fed, in which case she should be op.
On August 18 2011 05:41 KiLL_ORdeR wrote: This. Her heal is what makes her in the late game, since you want here to be in the back launching javs and healing teammates. when eveything goes to shit you pop into cougar and clean up.
This is exactly what they want to get at. They want her whole kit to be useful in teamfights, not just have half of it be for cleanup duty. And for that to work they need to even out the powerlevel of her entire kit, since so much of it is centered in the power of her healing right now.
It'll probably mean that she'll suck nuts for a few patches, and when they're done, she probably won't play anything like she does now.
We might see Hotshot's old tanky Nidalee style make a comeback, Nidalee is my most played, probably by 100+ games over anything else, and there used to be a fairly common style that relied on Frozen Heart that Hotshot especially used to use. It was like Sheen > Glacial Shroud > Some AP > Frozen Heart. Most games would be over around the Sheen + Glacial Shroud stage, but these days where people farm straight through to 20+ minutes pretty commonly, I don't know if it would be as effective as it was way back then.
Just in case you haven't noticed: Nidalee got a HUGE buff recently. Her traps now actually cut the enemy AR and MR by 40%. FOURTY PERCENT. Before any APen/MPen or even flat reduction is applied. Hit that thing on the enemy (insert tanky DPS/anti carry) and watch him die in 2 seconds.
Just thought I'd mention - I've never seen hotshot build GRB on nidalee, which seems to be a mainstay item that everyone else builds. I know it's easy to keep 8 stacks on GRB with pounce, but is it even worth it considering that you're not going to be running around autoattacking in the middle of teamfights? He seems to get DRing - Mercs - Glacial Shroud - (some ap) - Frozen Heart into another tanky item and finally Deathcap....
On August 23 2011 02:43 HyperionDreamer wrote: Just thought I'd mention - I've never seen hotshot build GRB on nidalee, which seems to be a mainstay item that everyone else builds. I know it's easy to keep 8 stacks on GRB with pounce, but is it even worth it considering that you're not going to be running around autoattacking in the middle of teamfights? He seems to get DRing - Mercs - Glacial Shroud - (some ap) - Frozen Heart into another tanky item and finally Deathcap....
He used to run GRB for a pretty long time. GRB is more like the agressive pushing build where as the deathcap rush is more mid/lategame orientated. He always runs deathcap in serious games now.
On August 23 2011 02:43 HyperionDreamer wrote: Just thought I'd mention - I've never seen hotshot build GRB on nidalee, which seems to be a mainstay item that everyone else builds. I know it's easy to keep 8 stacks on GRB with pounce, but is it even worth it considering that you're not going to be running around autoattacking in the middle of teamfights? He seems to get DRing - Mercs - Glacial Shroud - (some ap) - Frozen Heart into another tanky item and finally Deathcap....
Guinsoos is worth it in normals. Guinsoos is not worth it in ranked.
Guinsoos is for trolling and raping face, and hard.
However, trolling and raping face with Nidalee is very risky business, and should be avoided in ranked games.
Guinsoos is a great midgame damage item for when you know you will be able to use the damage to beast over your lane opponent and do it for cheap. There really isnt a point to getting it in a competitive game since a good player will be able to minimize risk and prevent kills.
As for the heal, ITS STILL A FREAKIN HEAL. That means that Nid will gain health without having to wait around, hit minions, or expose herself to any risk whatsoever. Plus, the nerf to her early game really is fairly negligible. You lose 10 hp at level 1 and 5 at level 2, by level 3 you are normal and 4 is actually BETTER. Mana cost is offset by the javelin decrease, and just playing slightly smarter. So no, I think she is still going to be fine solo top.
Riot said that this incoming heal nerf is just the start of their sustainability nerfs. I read that as saying that dealing with champs like Udyr and Lee Sin etc. at top who have crazy self-sustain will be done once Riot figures out how to deal with it (like someone on here has said a few times this may require the discussed jungle reworks that Guinsoo tweeted about some time ago though, because right now if you kill the sustain on those champs you kill a lot of their jungle prowess too, which Riot is probably hesistant about).
In what sense is a 65% increase in mana cost on her heal (which was easily the spell you cast most often in lane) offset by a 10% decrease in the mana cost on her spear? How often were you really spamming her spear in lane anyways?
And the point is, you can't just nerf Nidalee's heal, leave all the other ridiculous sustain heroes the same, and expect her to still be a balanced solo top. If they did all of these changes at once then sure, I'd agree that everything's fine because frankly her heal IS too strong. The problem is, there's a shitload of sustain abilities that are too strong right now and they've only nerfed one of them unless there are a bunch of extra sustain changes they didn't mention in the patch preview (counting common solo heroes only).
They're wanting to make her more active in teamfights, which I think changing the cougar form will do pretty well... All this means is that if you're not going to get the 10% dodge and you want more sustain in lane because of the nerfed heal, you can take SoS in the defensive tree instead of nimbleness.
4 second cooldown on pounce... wow that sucks. I'm absolutely going to build morello's evil tome first now and steal bluebuff from enemy or my jungler(depending on blue/purple side). Probably going to replace my AP runes since the ap-ratio on heal is pretty bad now(mana regen instead maybe?). And my dodge runes as well because of passive-cat change =/
The CD pounce isn't all that bad. Just run cdr blues + 21 util and you'll already be at less than 3 seconds. With blue you can get maxed CDR and like 2.1 seconds pounces (I don't remember the exact number)
I've been building a tear early. Heal costs insane mana now so you need a tear because you'll run oom even with blue. With deathcap and AA your heal will still be really strong. Javelin is a 4 second cooldown with 40cdr now.
On August 25 2011 07:46 HazMat wrote: The CD pounce isn't all that bad. Just run cdr blues + 21 util and you'll already be at less than 3 seconds.
Uh ... what? Full CDR blues is 5.85%, the offense + util mastery puts you at 14.85%. That only puts you at a 3.4 second pounce, need another 10% CDR to even get it back to where it was before.
EDIT: Also, CDR blues are 100% useless on every other hero in the game so you need a rune page specifically for Nidalee now.
Hm Hotshot went RoA. He has the same idea as me. I was thinking whether I should RoA or AA. I'll try RoA next game and see how it feels. It definitely makes more sense with how you have to be in cougar form a lot more now.
On August 25 2011 07:46 HazMat wrote: The CD pounce isn't all that bad. Just run cdr blues + 21 util and you'll already be at less than 3 seconds.
Uh ... what? Full CDR blues is 5.85%, the offense + util mastery puts you at 14.85%. That only puts you at a 3.4 second pounce, need another 10% CDR to even get it back to where it was before.
EDIT: Also, CDR blues are 100% useless on every other hero in the game so you need a rune page specifically for Nidalee now.
With only 8 cdr, I'm at 3.19 secs. I just need cdr quints.
Are you sure the tooltip just isn't wrong? Patch notes said 4 seconds while your results would indicate 3.5 seconds (which is what the original notes posted by Shurelia said).
On August 25 2011 09:08 arnath wrote: Are you sure the tooltip just isn't wrong? Patch notes said 4 seconds while your results would indicate 3.5 seconds (which is what the original notes posted by Shurelia said).
Honestly, what pisses me off the most about these Nidalee changes is the fact that Riot (and Phreak in particular) continue to act like they buffed her or something when they in fact fucked the shit out of most of her kit. They took her from a cool multidimensional character with a slightly too strong heal to basically a spearbot.
On August 25 2011 09:24 arnath wrote: How did you find out for sure?
Honestly, what pisses me off the most about these Nidalee changes is the fact that Riot (and Phreak in particular) continue to act like they buffed her or something when they in fact fucked the shit out of most of her kit. They took her from a cool multidimensional character with a slightly too strong heal to basically a spearbot.
I took my ipod's stopwatch and pressed it at the same time as I pressed pounce. 4 seconds. I pm'd moonbear about it.
On September 16 2011 07:55 HazMat wrote: Ok this patch Tank Nid is pretty sick. Just use heal for ASPD buff on carry or yourself and cougar to the frontline.
Boots + 3hp solotop Warmogs Atmas Spirit Visage Triforce or FoN
Not sure about Spirit Visage but I like it more than Frozen heart. It also buffs your heal by ~30 at lvl 5.
Apen reds // Hp per level Yellows // CDR blues // Apen quints
So basically Nid is a tanky melee dps now? lol
So much for Riot wanting to get rid of that trend >.>
On September 16 2011 07:55 HazMat wrote: Ok this patch Tank Nid is pretty sick. Just use heal for ASPD buff on carry or yourself and cougar to the frontline.
Boots + 3hp solotop Warmogs Atmas Spirit Visage Triforce or FoN
Not sure about Spirit Visage but I like it more than Frozen heart. It also buffs your heal by ~30 at lvl 5.
Apen reds // Hp per level Yellows // CDR blues // Apen quints
So basically Nid is a tanky melee dps now? lol
So much for Riot wanting to get rid of that trend >.>
To be fair, Riot DID want Nidalee to use Cougar form more in fights, and this change does just that.
On September 16 2011 07:55 HazMat wrote: Ok this patch Tank Nid is pretty sick. Just use heal for ASPD buff on carry or yourself and cougar to the frontline.
Boots + 3hp solotop Warmogs Atmas Spirit Visage Triforce or FoN
Not sure about Spirit Visage but I like it more than Frozen heart. It also buffs your heal by ~30 at lvl 5.
Apen reds // Hp per level Yellows // CDR blues // Apen quints
So basically Nid is a tanky melee dps now? lol
So much for Riot wanting to get rid of that trend >.>
To be fair, Riot DID want Nidalee to use Cougar form more in fights, and this change does just that.
Is her damage output even relevant enough in teamfights though? I've never seen anyone go tank nid since the changes, and I've watched hotshot build her RoA -> Frozen Heart -> Deathcap multiple times on stream since then.
On September 16 2011 07:55 HazMat wrote: Ok this patch Tank Nid is pretty sick. Just use heal for ASPD buff on carry or yourself and cougar to the frontline.
Boots + 3hp solotop Warmogs Atmas Spirit Visage Triforce or FoN
Not sure about Spirit Visage but I like it more than Frozen heart. It also buffs your heal by ~30 at lvl 5.
Apen reds // Hp per level Yellows // CDR blues // Apen quints
So basically Nid is a tanky melee dps now? lol
So much for Riot wanting to get rid of that trend >.>
To be fair, Riot DID want Nidalee to use Cougar form more in fights, and this change does just that.
Is her damage output even relevant enough in teamfights though?
I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but tears of the goddess's passive works when in cougar form, is this a bug? makes for really easy mana/ap
So how good is Nidalee these days? How do you build her, especially concerning runes and masteries? I figured, RoA -> Deathcap is the way to go these days, maybe throw in a frozen heart (I've seen HSGG both get it and skip it multiple times).
I really feel like mastering a cool, unique champ and I am still struggling which one it should be. Is Nidalee still a force to be reckoned with?
On September 21 2011 16:52 Shiv. wrote: So how good is Nidalee these days? How do you build her, especially concerning runes and masteries? I figured, RoA -> Deathcap is the way to go these days, maybe throw in a frozen heart (I've seen HSGG both get it and skip it multiple times).
I really feel like mastering a cool, unique champ and I am still struggling which one it should be. Is Nidalee still a force to be reckoned with?
Yes. The way I used to play her, 2 years ago, was sheen opening, into tanky dps.
And I've gone back to doing this after the heals to her nerf, and now her pounce has been reverted (almost) to how it used to be, and being doing really well.
Just master her pounce, push every lane, gank every lane, put traps everywhere and play easy.
I almost always open Sheen, and like arthur said, depending on team comps it's completely viable to go tanky-DPS. I, personally, like to open Sheen in to boots -- Lucidity if I can get away with it -- in to Rageblade in to Trinity Force if I'm not pressured to build defensively, but after that I'm usually focused hard and like to build tanky, items dependent on the enemy team. I try to work Frozen Heart in to my build because of the CDR, though getting Glacial Shield and working on something tankier after just that can be a good idea.
To any experienced nidalee players out there, I've come up against malz in a solo lane twice now, and both times I got crushed despite playing very conservatively. Is there any advice you have for laning vs a malzahar?
On October 18 2011 11:50 obesechicken13 wrote: Does nidalee have infinite bushwacks? They last 3 minutes though unlike teemoshrooms TT
Also, can you direct cast them on an enemy champion like a spell?
They actually last 4 minutes, and you can't directly cast them on a champion. If you place it on the ground below them, it takes a second or two before it can activate.
So is Nid more viable as TankyDPS or AP now? I've seen many different builds since her nerfs.
Hotshot opens Mana Crystal/2 Pots. Some people still open Doran's Others open Boots/3pots
Some people go Warmogs->Atma's->Veil/FrozenHeart Others go: RoA->Deathcap
I've personally had more success with RoA/Deathcap because I'm a blue-whore and like spamming Javs (brooms).
My runes are a mixed bag too. I generally go ArPen reds/Armor Yellows, but haven't found what I like yet because I'm still not sure what the hell the optimal route is anymore.
Wota Deathcap max Q da best. It's hilarious when you can spear a minion at max range and heal off more than with your actual heal.
Conversely, the mana cost on E scales obscenely high so it's much better to just leave it at low level and stack a bunch of AP. It's still got 0.7AP ratio so with runes, Dring and revolver you're looking at around 100 heals for 60 mana, which is not bad at all.
Her cougar spells don't cost mana which means if you have spell vamp you can pounce and swipe creeps for free sustain as well.
I had some trouble landing nidalee spears against bots recently. I was thinking of a deathfire and morellos build where I maxed cooldowns and got decent AP and mana regen early, and then just poked people during the teamfight stage so I could force a member on the enemy team back with my 3.6 cd spears, every few seconds leading to a 4v5. But those bots don't hang out around towers like people do and they stand really close to their creeps -_-
On October 21 2011 03:12 Juicyfruit wrote: Wota Deathcap max Q da best. It's hilarious when you can spear a minion at max range and heal off more than with your actual heal.
Conversely, the mana cost on E scales obscenely high so it's much better to just leave it at low level and stack a bunch of AP. It's still got 0.7AP ratio so with runes, Dring and revolver you're looking at around 100 heals for 60 mana, which is not bad at all.
Her cougar spells don't cost mana which means if you have spell vamp you can pounce and swipe creeps for free sustain as well.
Actually even with no AP whatsoever E gets more mana efficient as you level it. Cursory math shows that you should probably level it to 2 or 3 before you hit 6 as that's when you make the largest efficiency gains by ranking. Since you're not going to be landing spears early in lane there's not really a point to going strictly Q>E.
Spear doesn't become as efficient a source of healing as E until WotA is finished, but yes for trading hits in a tower siege that's still really good. Cougar form spell vamp is free, yes, but is AoE and gets AoE penalty and in my experience just doesn't actually do that much.
On October 30 2011 09:39 obesechicken13 wrote: I had some trouble landing nidalee spears against bots recently. I was thinking of a deathfire and morellos build where I maxed cooldowns and got decent AP and mana regen early, and then just poked people during the teamfight stage so I could force a member on the enemy team back with my 3.6 cd spears, every few seconds leading to a 4v5. But those bots don't hang out around towers like people do and they stand really close to their creeps -_-
If you need CDR on spear nid you get blue buff. Taking blue buff is easy with Nidalee after level 6 and is a lot cheaper than spending 5k gold on mana regen/CDR items you don't need. If blue isn't available enough the standard spear nid build is RoA->Deathcap. Even without blue buff this is superior for sieges because it's more mana efficient (each spear does more damage) and mana > mana regen unless your blue pill button is broken.
A lot of newbies fall into this trap with casters where they think they need to max their CDR with items. There are very few casters in the game where a CDR AP item is desirable (Veigar/Xerath), and even fewer who max CDR without blue buff on purpose (Ryze).
Finally, bots don't play like people. Consider any skill you might learn killing bots to be akin to being able to fart a national anthem musically. Fun, but not something to worry about.
I'm not a fan of Wota on Nidalee. Spellvamp isn't that big of a deal to worry about with heals. You should be getting blue, so mana is never an issue to just heal up with. It's not a terrible item, I just think a catalyst is better.
Twice now I've seen HotshotGG go AD Nidalee when he decides he has had enough of noobs and wants to get a quick win. He absolutely dominates these games. They haven't lasted over 30 mins, and both times he just shits on solotop chars like Irelia and Cho.
ArPen Quints/Reds Split Armor & Dodge yellows (no idea why) Flat CDR Blues
Boots/3 HP Wriggles 1-2 Doran's Swords Brutalizer Rageblade (WTF?)
On September 24 2011 01:59 Thereisnosaurus wrote: To any experienced nidalee players out there, I've come up against malz in a solo lane twice now, and both times I got crushed despite playing very conservatively. Is there any advice you have for laning vs a malzahar?
don't let him constantly push you with huge waves, just keep autoattacking from level one on and don't really go super aggressive on him.
What's so wtf about rageblade on nidalee? It's not her standard anymore, but it used to be - she can maintain the stacks for free (press pounce on CD alone is stack-maintenance, and the stats are all useful in some way to her.
On October 30 2011 12:10 redtooth wrote: guys it's all about movespeed nidalee. eleisa's, boots of swiftness, triforce. movespeed quints + masteries ofc. you heard it here first folks.
On October 30 2011 12:10 redtooth wrote: guys it's all about movespeed nidalee. eleisa's, boots of swiftness, triforce. movespeed quints + masteries ofc. you heard it here first folks.
try going roa>rylais> deathcap. means your spears do fuck all to tankies, but you still maul squishies pretty bad and you're actually pretty badass in melee with the cougar form armor/mr. I find I can wander through a teamfight dropping traps, healing and diving to kill people without getting stomped like I do with a straight ROA into cap build. Since you're such a juicy target, people will still burn skills on you, but they'll be wasted. I don't think I've died once after getting those two built in I'd say 10 games, I wasn't playing like a pussy either.
your skills are still a pretty huge threat even without massive AP if you know where and when to use them right. the added utility of slows on just about everything plus the ability to survive an extra 2 or 3 big hits is huge.
On November 02 2011 05:27 Mogwai wrote: fucking atmog's nidalee is a giant homo on the split push.
disagree.
atmog's nidalee (comparatively) sucks balls. i say comparatively because it's really hard to suck with atmogs but at the same time that's like saying atmogs annie is awesome - it might work but the character wasn't meant for it. nidalee used to be one of the best bruisers in the game (back before bruiser was a real concept) but now there's just so many heroes better at the job. she should be an unkillable splitpusher with surgical anticarrying potential. aka movespeed nidalee. i'm not even trolling here, movespeed is the future.
depends on where you end up. if I run her support bot, I get 3 levels in spear then max heal, seems counterintuitve but you can dominate other supports a lot easier that way
Solo top it depends on who I'm facing, if it's someone with reliable harass like GP I max heal first, if not sometimes I go spear first.
Solo mid almost always max heal first.
aka movespeed nidalee. i'm not even trolling here, movespeed is the future.
what items? lichbane in there somewhere and swifties or mobility boots? I find nid to be pretty item dependent, without sorcs and some decent health and AP she's far from unkillable, but if she has them she's a bitch and a half to down.
On November 02 2011 05:27 Mogwai wrote: fucking atmog's nidalee is a giant homo on the split push.
disagree.
atmog's nidalee (comparatively) sucks balls. i say comparatively because it's really hard to suck with atmogs but at the same time that's like saying atmogs annie is awesome - it might work but the character wasn't meant for it. nidalee used to be one of the best bruisers in the game (back before bruiser was a real concept) but now there's just so many heroes better at the job. she should be an unkillable splitpusher with surgical anticarrying potential. aka movespeed nidalee. i'm not even trolling here, movespeed is the future.
Atmog's nidalee is sick, much better than fucking boots of swiftness support nid.
On November 02 2011 05:27 Mogwai wrote: fucking atmog's nidalee is a giant homo on the split push.
disagree.
atmog's nidalee (comparatively) sucks balls. i say comparatively because it's really hard to suck with atmogs but at the same time that's like saying atmogs annie is awesome - it might work but the character wasn't meant for it. nidalee used to be one of the best bruisers in the game (back before bruiser was a real concept) but now there's just so many heroes better at the job. she should be an unkillable splitpusher with surgical anticarrying potential. aka movespeed nidalee. i'm not even trolling here, movespeed is the future.
Atmog's nidalee is sick, much better than fucking boots of swiftness support nid.
Warmogs Atmas Triforce FoN or LW
uhg, this shit is so gay. it's like, if you let her get all lanes pushing, and then you win a fight with 4 up and they just have this gay ass tank nid left, you still can't do fucking anything because when she escapes from the fight, she just heals up on the way to a new lane to push and she'll fuckstart any of your low HP guys around 1v1, so you basically have to chase her or end up losing more objectives despite winning teamfights. omg, I just get so mad vs. that shit.
On February 24 2012 22:35 r.Evo wrote: Why is Nidalee being treated as "Yeah post 6 she instawins lanes" in GD atm?
Too mobile to be ganked or even caught, pushes really well (ranged, AS boost, powerful AoE abilities with no cost and low CD in cougar form), strong 1v1 and hard to escape from (cougar-Q is an execution type move with huge base damage and really low CD + mobility from Pounce and passive), harasses very well, sustains with E, W is an excellent shred when fighting.
Basically she'll spear you to death and run whenever you try to get her.
On February 25 2012 01:54 r.Evo wrote: So basicly the plan is to be in human form, chuck spears, heal, trap -> cougar -> blow CDs -> turn around -> back to human and repeat? =S
or just stay a cat and show your opponent how kitties are just as tough as dragon ladies or something. my last few games vs. nid have been nid gets wriggle's -> huge defensive item and solos me when I have like, 1-2K gold worth of offensive items on her defensive build, yet she still trucks me.
I wish I could chime in but I have given up on Nidalee ever since Riot made her the same as every other tanky bruiser dps boring wriggles hero champ top whore.
On February 25 2012 03:55 bmn wrote: Er, for some reason nobody here mentioned her passive. AFAICT that's the real reason she can harrass so well top lane.
Stay in bushes, whenever opponent comes to cs run out, chuck a spear, go back into bush. That way you take 0 minion hits and they can't retaliate.
I often find that I have no chance to 1v1 my opponent directly, e.g. when fighting trynd top, but there's not much they can do about the bush abuse.
really? i was vs a shyv yesterday and had no problem just straight up autoattack fighting her, esp with the aspeed buff on heal.
On February 25 2012 03:55 bmn wrote: Er, for some reason nobody here mentioned her passive. AFAICT that's the real reason she can harrass so well top lane.
Stay in bushes, whenever opponent comes to cs run out, chuck a spear, go back into bush. That way you take 0 minion hits and they can't retaliate.
I often find that I have no chance to 1v1 my opponent directly, e.g. when fighting trynd top, but there's not much they can do about the bush abuse.
really? i was vs a shyv yesterday and had no problem just straight up autoattack fighting her, esp with the aspeed buff on heal.
Yeah, I don't know why I feel so weak in early direct 1v1, it doesn't match what I read others saying about nidalee. I'd really appreciate any tips.
I'm running apen reds, apen quints, and armor yellow and mres/level blue (IIRC). 21/9/0 masteries. Not optimal offensive masteries (both mpen and apen, just for the flexibility), but still, I haven't been able to flat-out 1v1 anyone I tried in half a dozen or so games. My harrass seemed to do way less damage per spear than I'd think listening to others. I pretty much always start boots+3pot.
Is it because I don't run flat ad quints or something?
The last person I fought was trynd, in two successive games. Never came close to killing trynd (both trynds went for crit builds). In a 1v1 they'd slaughter me; my harrass never got them low enough because they kept rage-healing, and threatening trades when I harrassed too far from the bush. The first trynd went 4-0 on me because I played too aggressive, the second one never killed me, but it was a giant farm fest that I only won decisively due to jungler help. Starting dblade feels too dangerous because even with boots trynd can catch up easily if you don't have boots pre-pounce; with pounce, he still gets off 1-2 free hits with slow + whirlwind (pounce has lower cd so you get away after that).
Wukong also has a much scarier burst than ad nidalee early game, so I couldn't straight-up 1v1 him. (He also has much better escapes and chasing power, at least pre-6.)
You don't 1v1 with nid. You poke. That's why garen and rumble strong vs nid. Best way to poke is to just push to their tower and poke them. Run if jungler comes or they try to fight you. You have brush. And traps. Nidalee is a champ that you need good csing skills with, because a lot of times, you're just going to split push and outfarm your opponent.
On February 25 2012 03:55 bmn wrote: Er, for some reason nobody here mentioned her passive. AFAICT that's the real reason she can harrass so well top lane.
Stay in bushes, whenever opponent comes to cs run out, chuck a spear, go back into bush. That way you take 0 minion hits and they can't retaliate.
I often find that I have no chance to 1v1 my opponent directly, e.g. when fighting trynd top, but there's not much they can do about the bush abuse.
Trynd is like one of the best counters to Nidalee lane though. Almost every champion other than him you can 1v1 post-6 because cougar form burst is ridiculous. If for some reason you can't effectively trade, like if it's Trynd and he heals just as much as you do, then you can just cougar and insta-clear every wave and keep tower pushed. It's hard for someone to straight up fight you if they constantly have minions at their tower. You just have to make sure you keep river warded.
On February 25 2012 10:04 0123456789 wrote: You don't 1v1 with nid. You poke. That's why garen and rumble strong vs nid. Best way to poke is to just push to their tower and poke them. Run if jungler comes or they try to fight you. You have brush. And traps. Nidalee is a champ that you need good csing skills with, because a lot of times, you're just going to split push and outfarm your opponent.
Sorry, I'm not sure what you're saying with "best way to poke is to just push to their tower and poke them".
If you can't 1v1, how do you push the lane? In human form you have range, but you don't push particularly fast. In cougar form you can push fast, but you have to get in the midst of the wave, where your enemy can start fighting you if they want.
Do you just jump in, clear wave, jump out, and accept that you'll lose a bunch of health in the process? Or do you first force them away by poking from bushes until they back off, then jump in?
(I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just have no clue how other people lane Nidalee, e.g. how aggressive you should be while farming)
As for trynd, if he's strong against Nid, that explains my troubles, thanks.
You're thinking way into the later levels. Nid is all about win lane early, then use that gold adv to win later. Push lane from lvl 1. Get the wave to their tower, not missing cs at all, 0, then you poke them from tower.
so usually with ad bruiser nid I go wriggles ->tanky. But what if I'm vs an AP? Say its top vs a kennen/rumble. Or, like yesterday I had a game where we had an akali who didn't want to go mid vs cass so I went mid and she went top. Do I still just go wriggles? Or stack dorans?
Edit: also, is frozen heart better than atmas? Atmas only affect the damage on Q(cougar). While FH gives more than double the armor, and decreased cool = more spell spam (so moar damage) and more mobility with pounce spam.
I'm only around 1500 elo but nid is my best heroe, I jsut switch to ap nid if I know I can't force the other guy out of lane or seriously reduce his CS count. I rush deathcap. Once 6 you can CS under your tower easily.
Concerning AD nidalee, I prefer to get triforce because it allows you push lanes faster and therefore get their towers. You can win games solely and it's really crap because you're never in teamfights, but ir requires some mates with good def abilities who would not let the other dives under tower. I will try the tanky nidalee but I would like to know what you build after wriggles.
On March 05 2012 03:23 nojok wrote: I'm only around 1500 elo but nid is my best heroe, I jsut switch to ap nid if I know I can't force the other guy out of lane or seriously reduce his CS count. I rush deathcap. Once 6 you can CS under your tower easily.
Concerning AD nidalee, I prefer to get triforce because it allows you push lanes faster and therefore get their towers. You can win games solely and it's really crap because you're never in teamfights, but ir requires some mates with good def abilities who would not let the other dives under tower. I will try the tanky nidalee but I would like to know what you build after wriggles.
Oh I didn't have any problem forcing that cass out of the lane anyways.
And yeah tanky nid - wriggles, then situational really. I don't really have much experience playing nid (since I'm usually forced to jungle most games) and I'm still experimenting.
After wriggles I pick up like either a bruta or sheen. Then phage. Usually, either I'll finish triforce if I'm really ahead or get my mog+chainvest+negatron.
Final item build I suppose is like - boots, warmog, atma/FH, FoN/abyssal, triforce, BT.
That said, please don't take follow anything I say too seriously and just follow the advice of our TL vets like smash, yango. They can offer you much more reliable opinions than some random scrub like me :>
I've decided to pick up Nidalee after getting tired of the other broken top champions including Udyr and Riven, and I gotta say...
This is just a whole new level of unfair. Playing against ranged is already stressful as a melee, but she also has a heal and an AS steroid on the same button. And god forbid you step on a trap, there's a 20-40% armor shred on you right there. Once she gets to 6, there aren't very many champions that can even stay in lane against her anymore. 20 free armor/MR, absurd chasing/escape ability, an execute on a 5 second cooldown, and crazy high base damages. Her traps are basically free wards before your first back, so getting an early gank on her is nearly as hard as when she has her ridiculous escape after 6. After she has Wriggles, she doesn't even need to back. Ever.
I usually start boots, trap stuff up, then b for a 4th pot. Stay in lane until wriggles unless jungler is babysitting, then Phage > Merc Treads. Go for a hexdrinker if against dumb AP champions like Kennen and Vlad, otherwise I rush triforce because AD carries have no clue what they're doing in solo queue and just end up going in like Xin Zhao bot. From there I either get atmas if I need MOAR DEEPS or a Warmogs if the enemy team is smart enough to focus me. I'll usually finish off with a Frozen Heart, but the games tend to be over before I can get there because top inhib is dead by 25 minutes huehuehuehue
It is unacceptable to lose top with nidalee unless you are against say Pantheon or Tryn. She is awesome if the player really knows how to play. I play Maknoon style (Korean pro who is top specialist), and it's just starting off standard depending on opponent, either armor+5pot or boots+3pot then getting phage straight away then either go straight trinity or build FH first. (wriggle first if started with armor or maybe ninja tabi)
A good nid will win top convincingly even before level 6 so almost every time, when I go back to town for the first time, it will be around 1500 gold so get wriggles if you started armor or phage+ward if boots. I tend to just go ninja tabi if there are more AD carries but mres boots are nice too. FH, Atmog, boots, trin and FoN to close out the end game. Making wriggle really delays the timing of trin force so if i am ahead (most of the time), i just go straight for phage+frozen. I think of her as upgraded version of PotM (Mirana), and i think shes more fun to play. I personally think AP nid is pretty bad, because opponent must be really bad to get hit by the spears.. and cougar Q is just too awesome to ignore.
I go Arpen red, armor yellow, lvl Mres blue, either arpen/move speed quint. Sometimes i go 21/9 or 9/21, but most of the time i like 21/9 as it synergizes most with my +25 arpen runes. trap first (or heal first to leash for your teammate at blue), Q, E, W, Q/E (E for staying in lane, Q for being aggressive and denying at lvl 6) then at level 6, insta kill but you should have a kill already before 6 vs typical top heroes...
If I am facing a really tough top hero, i just bring exhaust/ignite lol to just try kill him first. flash is really really useful late game when I am on cd to jump over a ledge or fail to do so (stupid pathing sometimes), but i personally think getting big early is more important. Then you just pwn everyone..
Does she beat Shen though? I was against a Nidalee, took armor yellows+quints, cloth+5 start, and if she didn't kill me under my tower (barely living, because I ran tp/ghost rather than combat summoner) we'd have hit 6 at around the same time, same with wriggles. I found that even post-6, once we both had wriggles I'd just smash her if she tried to fight, and all she could do was trade health for cs once she pushed me to tower.
As easily as she wins trades, she doesn't even need to trade to win the game. Anyone who can out trade her won't have the wave clear to stop her from pushing to your tower and either roaming or killing the tower. I haven't played enough of her to say she just doesn't have a counter, but the last 25 games I've played with her I've won my lane easily. As long as you keep river and tribush (if you're blue side) trapped up you're impossible to gank before 6. Unless it's like a roam boots Rammus who just goes straight in, but that's a little... extreme. As long as you don't blow your flash just to get a kill you shouldn't really ever die.
there are definitely counters to nidalee. As mentioned, tryndamere just eats nidalee. Shen is a good pick too but there is a reason why he is perma banned in ranked lol. I am also afraid to lane vs a good pantheon because pantheon will take a lot of hits and 1 combo takes out like half of nid's hp. mana is his problem but if the player is good with mana management, pantheon is god at top.
I feel she really needs to sustain early and take advantage, otherwise she can get heavily denied by heroes like Lee Sin. Because he has the ability to do some nasty burst dmg. vs some heroes, you just have to play passively like chogath or vlad. nid can easily win lane vs cho but its so damn hard to kill the bastard. Anyway, nid will win top lane most of the time unless it is heavy counter, or you mess up early at like level 2,3 vs likes of lee sin, riven, panth, etc.
Yeah, I'm always confident picking Pantheon against Nidalee. I'd probably be with pre-nerf Irelia too, since she can just shove the wave with her ult and survive Nidalee until the point where she just bursts her for half her health anytime Nida makes the mistake to come near at a higher HP%. But I don't think post-nerf Irelia can survive her harass w/o getting way behind.
On April 05 2012 01:37 ExceeD_DreaM wrote: nid will win top lane most of the time unless...you mess up early
PLEASE, ENLIGHTEN US MORE.
I kid.
Just because she has trouble against some champions doesn't mean she isn't broken. If there's any top lane I would first pick and not give a damn about counterpicks, it would probably be Nidalee.
When you're losing your lane you have to rely on your jungle to not get completely shut down. Nidalee negates this entirely with traps and kitty W. If you aren't playing a champ that's good against Nidalee, you're probably going to be useless unless you have sick farming-under-the-tower skills while she takes your ice cream and kills your mid. It's lose-lose.
noggnoskill, I know. I pick nidalee like 70% of the time in ranked games. She just doesn't get boring lol. She has nothing to worry about post 6, it's all about pre6 for her, how she engages her opponent, how she avoids gank (smart junglers won't go in bush to gank where your trap will be), and how good you are with denying timing and cs. pre-nerf irelia would have been harder than now of course, but i think it was fine. You just open cloth5 vs tops that hit like a truck. Early game offense items cannot overcome early defense items. Defense is way more effective early (I learned this reading someone's guide, I think it was Mokuza or Jacksparrowww) and I agree. I also take exhaust/ignite vs really tough top to make them think twice about engaging me because they will probably die too if they engage. Something to think about because nidalee can escape really well in teamfights, so if you can do well without flash, definitely bring ignite/exhaust.
I've been playing Nidalee quite a bit recently. I normally open cloth5 and win my lane ezpz, but after that I don't do as well. Not sure if it's itemization, skilling order or what.
I normally back at 1.3k or so for Wriggles. After that my build varies; I've rushed GA (won that game, so troll lol) and gone triforce. What do you guys think are the best first 2-3 items generally? And I'm maxing E then Q; I'm almost certain that's right but correct me if I'm wrong.
It depends on whether you want to go ad or ap. I always play her ap as I love those chunks the spear takes away. In your case you can try out a hybrid build like Hextech, rab, guinsoo. That might work.
I've been playing Nidalee quite a bit recently. I normally open cloth5 and win my lane ezpz, but after that I don't do as well. Not sure if it's itemization, skilling order or what.
I normally back at 1.3k or so for Wriggles. After that my build varies; I've rushed GA (won that game, so troll lol) and gone triforce. What do you guys think are the best first 2-3 items generally? And I'm maxing E then Q; I'm almost certain that's right but correct me if I'm wrong.
I'll answer your questions for both roles, AD or AP nidalee.
AD Nidalee:
You generally want to build Wriggles(1.3k after cloth armor) because its a solid item overall against AD opponents and it gives you sustain if you are against a champion that can come out even or ahead of trades. Doran Blades(475 each) is another option if you want the HP and damage, very good against AP. Boots are of course mandatory, you can either rush a ninja tabi which is a really cheap boot and a staple to most top laners against AD or mercury treads against AP or just stick to tier 1 boots because Nidalee has high mobility already with her Cougar pouncing. Next, you can either start building pieces for triforce, usually Phage first for the slow procs to keep you locked down on enemies or Sheen for a larger mana pool.
You want to max your E first for the AS steroid and the wave clearing in cougar form, then W, then Q.
AP NIdalee: Most AP Nida builds start with boots 3 into either dorans for early health and mp5 or catalyst if you're going for RoA, which is terrific in the mid game. You can build a Guinsoo's Rageblade if you're going more for a hybrid style nidalee or straight into deathcap after dorans or RoA for that poke damage ASAP.
You max Q of course because of the ap scaling for the deadly poke, E second for bigger heals, and W last.
one major problem I've encountered is laning against Vlad; in one game I was dead even with him in CS; we killed each other and bought, but once we got back to lane he easily dominated the lane. Is there any way to counter this? I suppose building wriggles in that situation was not the best choice..
i am assuming he would have bought revolver. thats when he is strongest. if its a sustain lane you cannot outsustain him as your mana pool is limited. However, you have more burst than he does. Every time he Q's you, you need to go on the offensive and take out as much hp as you can in kitty form. You can do outdamage his heal though he'll heal up again if you let him. If you do stay on the offensive you can stay even in hp most of the time. Dont push it and try to tower dive though as Vlad is at his strongest mid game.
Vladmir is a really hard matchup for AD Nidalee. You generally want to farm as much as possible because he will always outtrade you because his Q is a longer range than your autoattacks. Ask your jungler for a gank and if it is successful you should be ahead and just win the lane even with wriggles.
I just beat a Vlad with Wriggles+Mobility+3 Zeals with ghost/flash and he had heal/ghost
What I do is, considering most of the time I get a kill or two before level 6 at top, I will have plenty of gold once I go back to town (after level 6 that is). If you started off cloth+5, I will get boots+dorans or wriggles without boots. of course I recommend farming 300 more to like 1650 to get wriggle and boots in one shot. Not that hard to do, and kill a golem or two if you pushed your lane hardcore. If you started off boots, depending on how much you pwned top, I sometimes go phage first skipping wriggles. If you go phage first, you now have large HP pool and slow (very very good around this level, it's insta death once you get onto them)
What I would do: vs Riven/GP/Panth/Irelia/Lee Sin/Shen/Renekton/Tryn/Garen and bruiser melee heroes Start cloth+5 Go with your all out defensive mastery and arpen+flat armor+mres+quint rune page. Start with trap or heal. Against this match up, I recommend maxing E to level 3/4 first unless you totally pwned your opponent because they are bad. Focus on getting creeps instead of fighting them, guys like tryn, lee and renek will destroy you pre 6, so I advise abusing the brush and stay behind your creeps and farm! It could be that if your opponent is really aggressive, you will likely push your lane. Superior creep count on your side = hard time for them to jump on you. Ward the bushes always, and if they play passively just farming, even better for you, you will be safe until level 6! If you died early due to gank or failure, I would go doran and try to snowball. Definitely build wriggles vs this matchup and once you get wriggle+boots, considering you kept up in CS and didn't die, you would destroy them after 6. I would go boots vs Garen because he has no gap closer. with movespeed quint, you should be able to avoid his silence and spin combo. farm and harass ftw
vs Vladimir/Cho Vlad is a funny match up for AD Nid. Definitely tough match up but you can take advantage early level, you will out dps him at level 1 with heal steroid. Stay in the bush and whack him a few times and stress him out staying in the bush, last hitting your creeps. I would start mres+2 pot or even regen+pot. I see no point bringing boots. Will be a very passive lane, just farm well and hit level 6. Definitely go phage+mercury, I would skip wriggles of course. Cho is passive too cuz he won't die. But again, you can take advantage early level, so abuse that and farm well.
vs Brolaf Depends. You could go boots to stick with speed and avoid his axe and close range skill, or armor and tank the shit. I personally dislike facing brolaf. they are so OP but nid wins anyway
vs Everyone else is a joke. Go boots+3 pot and harass the fuck out of them. Kennen is garbage vs nid, stay behind the creeps to prevent getting hit, and I slot movespeed quints to dodge his shurikens easily when I try to engage him. When he comes in for last hits, whack him a couple times. He takes a lot of dmg from your auto so he will have a tough time. You will mega out farm him until he gets revolver, and by this time, you finished your phage and mercury, or boots+doran+phage.
If you started cloth+5, If you got huge early and they have mostly AD heroes with weak mid: Wriggles+Ninja Tabi+phage->700g armor->atma or FH->sheen/zeal->trinity->warmog-> situational last item. Fill the voids with doranb, its awesome on nid
If you started boots+3 If you got huge early: straight into phage->armor->finish trinity->FH/FoN->whatever.
The reason why I always go armor after phage is because after phage, sheen and zeal doesn't provide survivability (other than move speed), so nid at this point becomes quite vulnerable. Therefore, I always grab armor at this point to be more tanky, you already do insane dps 1v1 with only phage and doranb. Boots are always dependent on enemy team. Definitely go mercury if their mid got big, but if your mid won, and they are AD dependent, definitely grab ninja tabi. Its cheap, and it can be swapped out later in the game.
I would level E first vs tough top lane for survivability. However, most of the time, you will win so convincingly that you won't even use up your pots. Even vs tough opponents such as panth, if you prevailed, I level Q quickly because Q is your ticket to the rape train post 6. Also, when they run away to tower with no hp, spearing to last hit is nice, and leveling Q guarantees a kill. Always remember to move away from your spear just like you do with Enchantress in dota!
If you are blue side, try to steal their red once in a while. Nidalee is truly OP. Also, it doesn't get any boring. As long as your team doesn't mess up, you should win top convincingly. I only played about 50 ranked games but my top nidalee is around 80% win (5% me losing to renekton/lee and 15% bot feeding). Also, nid is OP late game too, i don't get people saying otherwise. You will be seeing plenty of 15-1 or 17-3 scores. GL everyone with nidalee!
What's the consensus on runes for AD and AP Nidalee these days? I figured Apen Reds, Armor yellows, MR blues, and Apen Quints for both since Shake suggested it a year ago for AP Nid, and it makes sense for AD Nid. Someone was telling me recently that top AD Nid should run AD Reds and Quints like a bot AD carry though.
On April 14 2012 03:24 Sven Stryker wrote: What's the consensus on runes for AD and AP Nidalee these days? I figured Apen Reds, Armor yellows, MR blues, and Apen Quints for both since Shake suggested it a year ago for AP Nid, and it makes sense for AD Nid. Someone was telling me recently that top AD Nid should run AD Reds and Quints like a bot AD carry though.
the old apen red/quint build has largely been replaced by hybrid ad/apen setups or just full AD.
edit: that said, on top lane nid i just spam defensive crap like either full armor or full mres page or something equally retarded.
so fucking good lmao you hit like a truck and you're unkillable. you don't have as much atk speed to kill towers but sheen does fine. only downside is how much ur auto attack sucks.
so fucking good lmao you hit like a truck and you're unkillable. you don't have as much atk speed to kill towers but sheen does fine. only downside is how much ur auto attack sucks.
what is your skill tree?
R > E > Q > W ?
For that specific build yeah you should max E first because you want to abuse the spirit visage health regen bonus, and either Q if you want more poke damage and more damage on your executioner ability or W if you want a little faster creep clearing.
Eh I wouldnt build wits end on AD Nidalee, she doesnt really use her autoattacks that much in cougar, its mostly spamming her cougar abilities for burst. Hexdrinker can be viable vs a double AP comp though
Just FYI fellow Nid players, I don't think catform abilities rank up as you level your Q, W or E. Instead they rank up as you level R, so at 11 your catform abilities go to rank 2 for example. This means you should only look at your human spells when thinking about what abilities to level first.
Nidalee Abilities <- notice the catform abilities only have 3 seperate damage ranks ie. they level up with R.
Oh wow I didn't know that about Nidalee and I've played her for about 20-30 games already XD Thats interesting, so theres no real reason not to max E on AD nida and Q on AP nida first. Tyty
For those of you just starting out with Nidalee, make sure you decide which way you want to go first. I generally build her pure AP so the best spell for me to maximize is Q. W is pointless to put more points in either way. E is way too mana hungry for you to worry too much about it unless you are playing support Nidalee, which is like extremely rare anyway.
So in all likelyhood the skill order you should be following is R > Q > E > W, with the only condition being pick a point in W at level 2 or 3, depending on how much trouble you are having in lane/ how much you expect a jungle gank. If you decide to make out Q for some reason without a W instead though, just absolutely make certain that you get at least one point in W by level 5. The mobility with W on kitty is too wonderful to give up.
So I'm working on a comprehensive AD nida lee guide with lane matchups, build reccomedations, the whole 9 yards. Should I just post it in a reply here? Or PM Neo or Shake to have it incorporated into the OP somehow?
On April 18 2012 01:49 Strykemard wrote: For those of you just starting out with Nidalee, make sure you decide which way you want to go first. I generally build her pure AP so the best spell for me to maximize is Q. W is pointless to put more points in either way. E is way too mana hungry for you to worry too much about it unless you are playing support Nidalee, which is like extremely rare anyway.
So in all likelyhood the skill order you should be following is R > Q > E > W, with the only condition being pick a point in W at level 2 or 3, depending on how much trouble you are having in lane/ how much you expect a jungle gank. If you decide to make out Q for some reason without a W instead though, just absolutely make certain that you get at least one point in W by level 5. The mobility with W on kitty is too wonderful to give up.
E max tends to be better for ap just for laning as spears are relatively easy to dodge in lane. By the time you are actively sieging towers and objectives both your q and e should be maxed or close to anyway
On April 18 2012 01:49 Strykemard wrote: For those of you just starting out with Nidalee, make sure you decide which way you want to go first. I generally build her pure AP so the best spell for me to maximize is Q. W is pointless to put more points in either way. E is way too mana hungry for you to worry too much about it unless you are playing support Nidalee, which is like extremely rare anyway.
So in all likelyhood the skill order you should be following is R > Q > E > W, with the only condition being pick a point in W at level 2 or 3, depending on how much trouble you are having in lane/ how much you expect a jungle gank. If you decide to make out Q for some reason without a W instead though, just absolutely make certain that you get at least one point in W by level 5. The mobility with W on kitty is too wonderful to give up.
E max tends to be better for ap just for laning as spears are relatively easy to dodge in lane. By the time you are actively sieging towers and objectives both your q and e should be maxed or close to anyway
I disagree. This used to be the case before the heal got nerfed a couple of months back. As of now, the only reason to play AP nidalee is her spears. If you arent able to hit her spears, and if skill shots isn't exactly a strength of yours, you shouldn't be playing her AP. Play her bruiser/AD.
I tend to hit a lot of spears. Since I play a lot with my IRL friends, I love the "damn ! that damage!" I hear from them on hitting my Q's and they do agree that I'm fairly proficient at skill shots.
On April 18 2012 01:49 Strykemard wrote: For those of you just starting out with Nidalee, make sure you decide which way you want to go first. I generally build her pure AP so the best spell for me to maximize is Q. W is pointless to put more points in either way. E is way too mana hungry for you to worry too much about it unless you are playing support Nidalee, which is like extremely rare anyway.
So in all likelyhood the skill order you should be following is R > Q > E > W, with the only condition being pick a point in W at level 2 or 3, depending on how much trouble you are having in lane/ how much you expect a jungle gank. If you decide to make out Q for some reason without a W instead though, just absolutely make certain that you get at least one point in W by level 5. The mobility with W on kitty is too wonderful to give up.
E max tends to be better for ap just for laning as spears are relatively easy to dodge in lane. By the time you are actively sieging towers and objectives both your q and e should be maxed or close to anyway
I disagree. This used to be the case before the heal got nerfed a couple of months back. As of now, the only reason to play AP nidalee is her spears. If you arent able to hit her spears, and if skill shots isn't exactly a strength of yours, you shouldn't be playing her AP. Play her bruiser/AD.
I tend to hit a lot of spears. Since I play a lot with my IRL friends, I love the "damn ! that damage!" I hear from them on hitting my Q's and they do agree that I'm fairly proficient at skill shots.
lol how are you planning on winning your lane with q max? you think your opponent will stand still in front of creeps for 10 seconds so you can spear him?
Best way to end an argument. Just argue in LoL client where nobody can see you and do 1v1s or just play together and see how he plays... You can 1v1 me later Strykemard just PM me. Real useless to only talk and have no evidence to back up your claims. :DDD
On April 18 2012 01:49 Strykemard wrote: For those of you just starting out with Nidalee, make sure you decide which way you want to go first. I generally build her pure AP so the best spell for me to maximize is Q. W is pointless to put more points in either way. E is way too mana hungry for you to worry too much about it unless you are playing support Nidalee, which is like extremely rare anyway.
So in all likelyhood the skill order you should be following is R > Q > E > W, with the only condition being pick a point in W at level 2 or 3, depending on how much trouble you are having in lane/ how much you expect a jungle gank. If you decide to make out Q for some reason without a W instead though, just absolutely make certain that you get at least one point in W by level 5. The mobility with W on kitty is too wonderful to give up.
E max tends to be better for ap just for laning as spears are relatively easy to dodge in lane. By the time you are actively sieging towers and objectives both your q and e should be maxed or close to anyway
I disagree. This used to be the case before the heal got nerfed a couple of months back. As of now, the only reason to play AP nidalee is her spears. If you arent able to hit her spears, and if skill shots isn't exactly a strength of yours, you shouldn't be playing her AP. Play her bruiser/AD.
I tend to hit a lot of spears. Since I play a lot with my IRL friends, I love the "damn ! that damage!" I hear from them on hitting my Q's and they do agree that I'm fairly proficient at skill shots.
Navi's right, maxing q before e is something you can afford to do only vs really bad players where you could honestly be maxing w first. Good players will punish you HARD for q max.
Unless you are god with spear chucking or really ahead already without putting points into E (and in this case, you would zone enemy out and spear chuck cuz he will be no where near creeps), or your opponents are complete utter noobs, you go E first. Also, no point going AP nid for just spear because it does pretty good dmg even on AD nid and you use it for just poking and last hitting a runaway champ.
if AP and AD nid solo lane vs each other at top or mid... AD nid will win convincingly
On April 18 2012 01:49 Strykemard wrote: For those of you just starting out with Nidalee, make sure you decide which way you want to go first. I generally build her pure AP so the best spell for me to maximize is Q. W is pointless to put more points in either way. E is way too mana hungry for you to worry too much about it unless you are playing support Nidalee, which is like extremely rare anyway.
So in all likelyhood the skill order you should be following is R > Q > E > W, with the only condition being pick a point in W at level 2 or 3, depending on how much trouble you are having in lane/ how much you expect a jungle gank. If you decide to make out Q for some reason without a W instead though, just absolutely make certain that you get at least one point in W by level 5. The mobility with W on kitty is too wonderful to give up.
E max tends to be better for ap just for laning as spears are relatively easy to dodge in lane. By the time you are actively sieging towers and objectives both your q and e should be maxed or close to anyway
I disagree. This used to be the case before the heal got nerfed a couple of months back. As of now, the only reason to play AP nidalee is her spears. If you arent able to hit her spears, and if skill shots isn't exactly a strength of yours, you shouldn't be playing her AP. Play her bruiser/AD.
I tend to hit a lot of spears. Since I play a lot with my IRL friends, I love the "damn ! that damage!" I hear from them on hitting my Q's and they do agree that I'm fairly proficient at skill shots.
lol how are you planning on winning your lane with q max? you think your opponent will stand still in front of creeps for 10 seconds so you can spear him?
On April 18 2012 01:49 Strykemard wrote: For those of you just starting out with Nidalee, make sure you decide which way you want to go first. I generally build her pure AP so the best spell for me to maximize is Q. W is pointless to put more points in either way. E is way too mana hungry for you to worry too much about it unless you are playing support Nidalee, which is like extremely rare anyway.
So in all likelyhood the skill order you should be following is R > Q > E > W, with the only condition being pick a point in W at level 2 or 3, depending on how much trouble you are having in lane/ how much you expect a jungle gank. If you decide to make out Q for some reason without a W instead though, just absolutely make certain that you get at least one point in W by level 5. The mobility with W on kitty is too wonderful to give up.
E max tends to be better for ap just for laning as spears are relatively easy to dodge in lane. By the time you are actively sieging towers and objectives both your q and e should be maxed or close to anyway
I disagree. This used to be the case before the heal got nerfed a couple of months back. As of now, the only reason to play AP nidalee is her spears. If you arent able to hit her spears, and if skill shots isn't exactly a strength of yours, you shouldn't be playing her AP. Play her bruiser/AD.
I tend to hit a lot of spears. Since I play a lot with my IRL friends, I love the "damn ! that damage!" I hear from them on hitting my Q's and they do agree that I'm fairly proficient at skill shots.
Navi's right, maxing q before e is something you can afford to do only vs really bad players where you could honestly be maxing w first. Good players will punish you HARD for q max.
Nidalee maxing E is already a pretty easy lane, maxing Q makes it a free farm lane.
Irelia used to beat her, I don't think so now (being able to withstand her harass is, I'd say, the most important thing). Pantheon can beat her pre-6, and if he beats her hard ennough, she'll never reach the tower post-6 because she'll lose 1/3 of her HP everytime she approches the wave. Shen can do good enough, as in she won't beat him and he'll straight up outdamage/sustain her, but she'll outpush him easily unless he gets like wriggles. I guess if you send an AD carry top (s)he'll beat her?
Wukong if you go a fast Arpen build, Dorans into brutalizer Rumble does really well because he outdamages her pre 6 and even in cougar form if you rush Revolver->Ninja Tabi
I just checked the OP, are the parts about Bushwhack damaging wards still relevant? It seems like the kind of stuff Riot would patch and I've never seen it elsewhere.
wukong no chance. rumble can survive but nid can out farm her and outsustain. vs panth just take cloth+5 and go full defense mastery and farm. You will not kill panth, and he won't kill you. He will burn his mana before you even use up like 2 potions... You might have the best chance with riven, tryndamere, lee sin. if you are happy with just farming in the lane, malph and yorick works too, but likely lose too. vlad can also keep up with her. Fiora isn't too bad either. Rest are food for nidalee.
I just picked her up, but I feel like I can't really do anything except push the lane and heal myself. Lanewick just sustained through my damage and once the jungler was near I would have to back or eat a WW ulti and die.
AD Nida I feel carries harder especially if you go Triforce build but AP Nida is good on a well balanced team. WW is just hard to kill in general but most people you just win trades and just pounce ignite EQ them
On April 29 2012 08:21 MooMooMugi wrote: AD Nida I feel carries harder especially if you go Triforce build but AP Nida is good on a well balanced team. WW is just hard to kill in general but most people you just win trades and just pounce ignite EQ them
Reds-Flat AD for easier last hitting during early game, ARpen for better mid-late game damage Yellows- Armor of course Blues- Armor for more durability, Flat MR/MR level against AP Quints- Flat AD or ARpen for same reasons as above, MS/HP/HPregen also viable.
Masteries: Standard is 21/9/0- focusing on 3/3 Flat AD, 4/4Attack Speed, 10% ARpen, 4/4AD per level, 1/1Crit damage, 1/1Turret Damage, 2/3 Lifesteal, 3/3 Arpen, 1/1Executioner(helps your Q finish people off easier)
OR
9/21/0- Alternative build if you want a tankier Nidalee, recommended for straight tank or Atmogs build with Basic offense masteries, 3/3 Armor, 4/4 HP per level, 1/1 Flat HP, 3/3 Movement speed, 3/3 CDR, 2/2 Minion Damage, 1/1 Juggernaut
Items: Starting depends on matchup, against tough bruisers such as Riven, GP, Renekton you'd want to start cloth+5, against AP or anyone else like Warwick, Udyr, Kennen start boots+4
Against Bruisers- You can either go straight for Wriggles if you're doing well and have a lot of gold early on, or go for Ninja Tabi and 1 or 2 Dorans. From there you can go straight Triforce if you're fed, starting with Phage for the slow procs, or Warmogs or Frozen Mallet if you arent. Next is some more durability with basic tank items, Frozen Heart, Randiuns, G.A., Atmas all benefit Nidalee.
Against AP- Can go a Dorans into Mercs, Hexdrinker build, havent tried Wit's End on her so not sure if its good. A more HP orientated build is recommended unless of course if fed go Triforce and just kill everything.
On April 29 2012 10:37 MooMooMugi wrote: AD Nid Runes:
Reds-Flat AD for easier last hitting during early game, ARpen for better mid-late game damage Yellows- Armor of course Blues- Armor for more durability, Flat MR/MR level against AP Quints- Flat AD or ARpen for same reasons as above, MS/HP/HPregen also viable.
Masteries: Standard is 21/9/0- focusing on 3/3 Flat AD, 4/4Attack Speed, 10% ARpen, 4/4AD per level, 1/1Crit damage, 1/1Turret Damage, 2/3 Lifesteal, 3/3 Arpen, 1/1Executioner(helps your Q finish people off easier)
OR
9/21/0- Alternative build if you want a tankier Nidalee, recommended for straight tank or Atmogs build with Basic offense masteries, 3/3 Armor, 4/4 HP per level, 1/1 Flat HP, 3/3 Movement speed, 3/3 CDR, 2/2 Minion Damage, 1/1 Juggernaut
Items: Starting depends on matchup, against tough bruisers such as Riven, GP, Renekton you'd want to start cloth+5, against AP or anyone else like Warwick, Udyr, Kennen start boots+4
Against Bruisers- You can either go straight for Wriggles if you're doing well and have a lot of gold early on, or go for Ninja Tabi and 1 or 2 Dorans. From there you can go straight Triforce if you're fed, starting with Phage for the slow procs, or Warmogs or Frozen Mallet if you arent. Next is some more durability with basic tank items, Frozen Heart, Randiuns, G.A., Atmas all benefit Nidalee.
Against AP- Can go a Dorans into Mercs, Hexdrinker build, havent tried Wit's End on her so not sure if its good. A more HP orientated build is recommended unless of course if fed go Triforce and just kill everything.
Relatively new to nidalee (and solo top) here. I always feel at a loss for what items to build after wriggles triforce. Also, if I'm against someone with magic damage (Kennen, rumble, w/e) I feel like wriggles is a bit awkward - should I just sit on the lifesteal scepter? Or get the wriggles anyway for better pushing and/or jungle-thievery? Also, how should I be building after the triforce? Usually I end up doing something like:
Wriggles Tabi Phage [chainmail/negatron/maybe hexdrinker?] Triforce
What now? People used to get Atmogs at this point, but is it still worth it with atmas nerf? And is +HP better than +Resists when you have a heal and lifesteal?
I feel like getting Wriggles at all is overkill nowadays. I only get it vs hard AD based lanes. Just double dorans into faster phage. You still have 9% lifesteal with double doran's + masteries. If you get double doran's you can even use the ~625 gold you've saved to buy a chain vest or negatron flat out. Up to you though. Chalice mercs is good too ^^. Maybe good on AP Nid now too with the new item.
AP Nid is beast on poke comps. A bit like Gragas, except you have more single target poke. But Gragas has AoE damage and can use his ult to disengage. Actually, I think you could do a double AP comp with both.
How do you handle Rumble as Nid? Feels like you should be able to crush him as AD, but the windows to harass him feel absolutely tiny. Maybe AP works out so your manaless harass beats his manaless harass.
On June 06 2012 03:29 Harrow wrote: How do you handle Rumble as Nid? Feels like you should be able to crush him as AD, but the windows to harass him feel absolutely tiny. Maybe AP works out so your manaless harass beats his manaless harass.
Just keep poking him from bushes, run if he tries to commit to an exchange. He shouldn't be able to sustain against your harrass pre-6, and your burst and additional mobility should really scare him post-6.
I really don't think you should go AP nid if your goal is to beat Rumble in lane. AD nid has much stronger ranged harrass (auto-attack costs no mana, can't be blocked by minions, and has much lower cool-down), and using Cougar form to harrass makes it easy for Rumble to land Q and E. Better to harrass from afar and use Cougar to finish him off (or flee if necessary).
ap nid is better suited on a very nice poke comp team. with her spears, she can basically OHKO supports.
i've played ad nidalee once. i dont really like her that way. i feel that shes better off as an ap champion. i mean sure her cougar is better and she can push towers faster, but ap nidalee can still deal tons of damage in cougar and can still push towers.
So, after having some successful games with nidalee, I gotta say both ad and ap are viable but very situational.
1st game I played AP and our team was doing badly (10-20), and we lost bot and mid outer towers, enemy lost only mid outer. After some random roaming we got a stalemate inbetween two top towers, their Amumu (quite fed) was trying to initiate by tossing his Q, I had blue buff, two dorans and NLR. I fucking poked them to death with spears, so our graves quite fed went to push bot. They couln't leave top, because we were ready to take down the tower, afterawhile rene moved bot but got killed by our talon and graves. Then we got tower, graves got bot inhibitor and we snowballed to win.
2nd game I played AD vs nasus top, needless to say I won the lane easily, they're team went to fight dragon, where our super smart janna and syndra were holding them. Eventually they managed to kill 3 of us in 5v4 fight but I already got top inhibitor and killed a nexus tower (nida's E steroid is so op). Top half of the map was totally warded so we had easy time ganging their blue buff and pushing other lanes, and winning the game.
Nidalee is lots of fun to play but I'm 0-4 with her in ranked. It's not that I have bad kdas and there was one game where my mid was fid and I got ganked at least once every minute by mid/jungle. I died like once to the ganks.
Stupid flash invisible bind op.
I just don't feel like I do too much late game. I build her AD since I feel like my spears start doing less and less as AP and I never join fights as AP. Just spear all day. But even though her takedown and E are essentially AD scaling moves, I don't feel like I do enough damage to change a teamfight. I dunno could just be unlucky.
Could also be my playstyle that I never splitpush.
Nidalee is lots of fun to play but I'm 0-4 with her in ranked. It's not that I have bad kdas and there was one game where my mid was fid and I got ganked at least once every minute by mid/jungle. I died like once to the ganks.
Stupid flash invisible bind op.
I just don't feel like I do too much late game. I build her AD since I feel like my spears start doing less and less as AP and I never join fights as AP. Just spear all day. But even though her takedown and E are essentially AD scaling moves, I don't feel like I do enough damage to change a teamfight. I dunno could just be unlucky.
Could also be my playstyle that I never splitpush.
If your team is not stupid they'll let you go to split push and they won't engage 4v5. They have to hold inhib and tower for as long as they can. Or otherwise enemy will quadra kill your team and finish the nexus in a minute. You are to be blamed for that. Generally you want someone in your team to be good at holding towers. I guess alistar, heimerdinger, ashe and amumu would be great for this job. Another key thing is fighting dragon, your team shouldn't try to take the dragon, they let you go to push top and fuck around dragon so that enemy team will be waiting for a good engagement which will never happen. After a while if enemy gets lucky, they should get one of your teammates and the dragon, whereas you get top inhibitor and a nexus tower
In complete lategame, when there aren't any inhibs or towers you gotta go into team fights. Couple of hints: 1) don't stay with your team 2) always try to flank them and bait, when they run for you get cougar form and escape 3) you want to disform their team so that ranged carry and ap carry are left alone, all you need to do is to chase them, not necessarily kill, but making them do less damage. 4) never jump into cluster fuck fight, better get orignal form and attack from range.
I decided to give nida a real shot. I love splitpushing and skrimishing and play garen&singed top as my most successful lane bruisers. I think I can transition this style when learning nida.
that said iam really confused about nida builds. there are two items I would consider to be exceptionally costefficient on her namely rageblade and sheen and its upgrades.
I've checked out alot of builds and what I like is that you can situationally build her in lots of ways. also alot of good nida players vary their builds heavily on the situation which is amazing. wicked rushed a thirster on her once, hsgg built her very tanky with visage&fh one time. you can see alot of ad based and alot of ap based stuff and alot of the survivability/bruiser items fit her as well.
As I suspected, sheen and its upgrades is the most built item on nida for obvious reasons but what I don't get is why people consider rageblade a pubstomp item on her. good nida players allways try to squeeze in as many autos and spears they can which is essentially what makes rageblade so costeffective. it gives enough AS for you to get some extra hits in and alot of free ap since she keeps the stacks up anyways the ad is just a bonus.
there is no item that matches the costefficiency of rageblade on full stacks and a champion who can use them can't ever itemize more efficient without that item except that champion needs other stuff more heavily.
I don't really get why rageblade is not the most important item on her besides sheen. can anyone give me some insights about this?
While I play a lot of nidalee I'm still a novice at the game and can't answer this question to help, but I thought it was very interesting how TPA's Stanley built nidalee at the S2 worlds in two consecutive games vs. M5 (both times vs. yorick). AF went on to ban Nidalee in 3 out of 4 games in the finals. maknoon also took nidalee in a game in the group stages.
Maknoons nidalee finished the game up with: mercs, triforce, 2 dorans, hexdrinker, and a bf sword (almost surely for BT), something which seems like a slightly less tanky/more dmg version of the "standard" AD nidalee stanleys nidalee finished game2 with: wriggles, spirit visage, chalice, 1 dorans, mercs, phage [short-ish game] game3: mercs, rageblade, guardian angel, spirit visage, triforce, athenes unholy grail; i dont even know how to describe this, it's like a tanky-sustain-hybrid nidalee. if memory serves, the rageblade was purchased at least after the chalice, spirit visage, and triforce.
trying this sort of build was pretty fun for me, esp against guys like singed or vlad. who knows what specifically will still work with the new item overhaul but the principles probably carry over!
That's because Yorick deals a lot of magic damage in lane (he won't auto Nid, he needs to auto to cast Q, and his W and E are magic damage spells), so early MR helps her. Also it's less about sustain than mana sustain: cougar form outtrades Yorick hard, but he has a very good sustain, so maxing heals and taking chalice+SV, he has a lot of MR, some CDR, and the mana sustain to spam heal even when on low mana, which allows him to trade with Yorick pretty much on CD and force him to rapidly burn through his mana, after what she can easily push him out of lane.
You wouldn't build that against, say, someone like Irelia or Riven obviously.
I read this recent guide on nid and was really confused about the lack of rageblade. Afaik nidalee is the only champion who can easily keep up max stacks. Jayce doesn't want to always change forms and has longer cooldowns. I think Elise is the same thing.
My main problem with nidalee is teemo. Fricking teemo. If you main nidalee do you ask your captain to ban teemo? That and the fact that nidalee is kinda squishy midgame fights and has only single target damage in ranged form.
On November 08 2012 11:17 obesechicken13 wrote: I read this recent guide on nid and was really confused about the lack of rageblade. Afaik nidalee is the only champion who can easily keep up max stacks. Jayce doesn't want to always change forms and has longer cooldowns. I think Elise is the same thing.
My main problem with nidalee is teemo. Fricking teemo. If you main nidalee do you ask your captain to ban teemo? That and the fact that nidalee is kinda squishy midgame fights and has only single target damage in ranged form.
ad nidalee is an annoying matchup for teemo. you trade pokes with him but you want to go for more extended pokes (his poison does less damage when extended, you do more due to aspd increase from heal) as opposed to 1 hit and then run (which is what teemo wants). use your 3 pots, ward up so there's no risk of jungler ganks for you, but there is for teemo. go home, get tabi and chalice, shit on him
since shes such a common pick its been a matchup i've done a lot now and it seems to go relatively the same barring jungle intervention.
1-7 i do well and occasionally great. rarely but not never (though it's only when i take ignite, and i usually take TP) i manage to get a kill. often i can get the tower by around 15min and/or accumulate a 20-30 cs lead. however, around this time or after (lvl11 or so, varies a bit depending on how much of a lead i've accrued), irelia overtakes me and i can't really handle her anymore (must run away from a 1v1). the slightest bit of success i've had is rushing an executioners calling and spamming its active on her, but it only delays my lead. the big problem here of course is that irelia's tankiness fits into team comps generally better than nidalee does so if i'm coming into team fights not even able to 1v1 her, i feel like i'm dragging the team down.
for reference i bounced between 12-1300 elo last season
Ask for ganks only trade in creeps so he pushes with q. Hit 6 before him buy page try to bait pull kite himand dont all in unless you have jungler help
On November 21 2012 04:11 Wrath 2.1 wrote: I keep losing hard withs nid vs darius, any insights on how to play that lane, or iis it just lost?
I never have problems with darius unless i really screw up, (although i've only played nida at up to around 1500 elo this season, 1450 last season.)
First few levels you can absolutely shit on him, just sit in the brush and constantly dart in and out, hitting him whenever there isn't a cs available, this should have him at half health before you hit level 3, and an early gank is a very easily kill. If he ever starts chasing you just run and as soon as he turns around start autoing him again. once he's lvl 3 ish you need to start being careful, if he gets a grab on you you will take a ton of damage, so what i do is dance around the bushes always staying just out of grab range and trying to bait the grab, because if he misses a grab you have the entire cooldown of his grab where he can't touch you, and you can probably deal 200 or so damage at least in this time, don't let him cs til his grab comes off cd again (this takes a bit of practice to get used to the cooldown.)
once you hit level 6 you can start poking him again, if he grabs you just r-e-q then w away, and you should out poke him (depending on items and whether either of you has backed.) At this point the lane can swing very quickly in either direction if either of you makes a mistake, because if he steps on a traps while around half health or lower, a flash-q-r-w-e-q + ignite combo will kill him, but if you are ever under 40% health you need to be SUPER careful because he can flash onto you, and dunk you in oneshot with ulti easily.
so long as you don't derp and let him grab you i normaly don't have any problems with him. Also he's a lot easier to gank then you are, (you're nidalee ^.^) so try and get your jungler to help you abuse his lack of escapes.
Edit: also, don't underestimate the blood drop DoT, that does wayyy more damage then you think it will, and after level 2-3 only spend mana on heals (which you max first) and if he misses a grab don't be afraid to heal yourself even if you're almost full health because the atk speed lets you get 2-3 more autos in before his grab is it.
When poking from brush, try and time it so you hit darius just as all of his caster minions have just fired a volley, that way you can get back into the bush before the caster minions retarget and shoot you. No point doing 40 damage to him if you get hit by 6 caster minions all doing 10 damage in return.
If i don't get a lead early/are in trouble, i sometimes like to get a wriggles for the sustain, pushing power and free ward. The pushing power helps if darius ever backs/goes to try and influence another fight anywhere else, as you can really quickly shove the lane to his tower, heal, and just melt it.
I wanted to try out nidalee because I think she's pretty op but never got around playing her, figured AP nid out abit already but concerning Ad bruiser nid top, since I doubt the OP is up to date.
What masteries and runes are recommended?
still 21/9/0 or is 21 defense too good on ad nida.
I prefer 9/21/0 and a full AD page (AD / Armor / MR / AD) on AD bruiser nidalee. Iceborn is alright instead of Triforce if you want a little tankiness, especially with the old build of early phage being a lot less good now. Locket is excellent. An early dorans (blade or shield) is excellent. Warmogs is excellent. BT and BOTRK are both nice options. Brutalizer can be nice if you can get a lot of free autos off on your opponent.
I use a Flask/Ward/redpot start, use the ward combined with your traps to allow you to safely push and get a level/creep advantage so you can auto harass from the safety of a huge creepwave.
best top build for me these days seems to be manamune/iceborn/spirit visage. Absolutely terrifying sustain and dueling power, incredible turret pushing and pretty solid team fight cleanup. I have yet to lose a lane with nid in season 3 using that build, she's a fantastic champ for solo play.
Also I really want to see how a duo elise/nid bot lane would work out, good for making setups, lane control and punishing the opposing ADC stupidly hard when you get to 6.
Hm. I hadn't yet tried manamune, but I could see it working. You'd retain some of AP nidalee's spear-poking power, too - interesting. Do you start faerie charm?
nope, I almost always start flask/ward/pots. or just flask/pots if it's a pushy lane like darius or laf. if it's an AP lane I'll go tear>boots>nega>sheen, otherwise generally tear>glacial>manamune>sv>iceborn, since beating ADs almost always relies on trading damage and healing on CD while spamming spears and traps.
Flask is still a very strong item if you buy it first. It's not super necessary but it gets you through levels 1-4 smoothly, at which point with two ranks in your E you pretty much become unshiftable so long as you're not retarded.
On January 29 2013 05:44 sylverfyre wrote: Hm. I hadn't yet tried manamune, but I could see it working. You'd retain some of AP nidalee's spear-poking power, too - interesting. Do you start faerie charm?
Manamune/muramana are not cost efficient on nid. The amount of extra mana that it consumes only results in about 150 extra damage. That could be another spear thrown instead for potentially way more damage. Better off just building AA.
On January 29 2013 05:44 sylverfyre wrote: Hm. I hadn't yet tried manamune, but I could see it working. You'd retain some of AP nidalee's spear-poking power, too - interesting. Do you start faerie charm?
Manamune/muramana are not cost efficient on nid. The amount of extra mana that it consumes only results in about 150 extra damage. That could be another spear thrown instead for potentially way more damage. Better off just building AA.
I'd like to see how you came to this conclusion. Also Muramana works off your autoattacks.
On January 29 2013 05:44 sylverfyre wrote: Hm. I hadn't yet tried manamune, but I could see it working. You'd retain some of AP nidalee's spear-poking power, too - interesting. Do you start faerie charm?
Manamune/muramana are not cost efficient on nid. The amount of extra mana that it consumes only results in about 150 extra damage. That could be another spear thrown instead for potentially way more damage. Better off just building AA.
I'd like to see how you came to this conclusion. Also Muramana works off your autoattacks.
Bischu talks about it in his ap nidalee guide on lolking.net. He is pretty much the best ap nid player on na http://www.lolking.net/guides/15766
Check it out, definitely alot of useful information
"Regarding Manamune/Muramana Spears DO receive bonus damage from Muramana, however you need to take into account why AP Nidalee works in the first place. Nidalee's spears scales from AP and the damage ramps up to 250%. Having around 3000 MP late game with Nidalee and landing a spear with Muramana active proc'd will give you around 150 ish additional damage at MAX mana depending on the MR and also it consumed 3% of your aman which is the main reason why Muramana is such a bad item on Nidalee. 3% on 3k mana pool is 90 which is exactly the same mana required to throw another spear. So you're spending the potential MP to do additional 150 damage when you could be chucking another spear. Anyways yeah don't get Manamune/Muramana."
this makes sense if you're concerned about sustained dps and maximizing the dps for every point of mana... but seems to be obviously ignoring that the point is u are not going to get anywhere near burning through 3k mana throwing spears in a teamfight... u toggle the muramana on when u need more burst, who cares if it even takes 50% of ur mana if the extra burst dmg enables ur team to make a play or secure a kill that would have otherwise not been possible and INCREASES the efficiency of ur mana if u wouldnt have spent that mana during the fight anyway by actually making it do something for you.
On January 29 2013 05:44 sylverfyre wrote: Hm. I hadn't yet tried manamune, but I could see it working. You'd retain some of AP nidalee's spear-poking power, too - interesting. Do you start faerie charm?
Manamune/muramana are not cost efficient on nid. The amount of extra mana that it consumes only results in about 150 extra damage. That could be another spear thrown instead for potentially way more damage. Better off just building AA.
I'd like to see how you came to this conclusion. Also Muramana works off your autoattacks.
Bischu talks about it in his ap nidalee guide on lolking.net. He is pretty much the best ap nid player on na http://www.lolking.net/guides/15766
Check it out, definitely alot of useful information
Oh he's worried about running out of mana. I'd still get it. Nid is a fast stacker of mana and gains the most from things like rageblade and tear. 150 damage on spears isn't exactly right.
"Having around 3000 MP late game with Nidalee and landing a spear with Muramana active proc'd will give you around 150 ish additional damage at MAX mana depending on the MR and also it consumed 3% of your aman which is the main reason why Muramana is such a bad item on Nidalee." Well if you hit someone with a spear, regardless of range and MR, you'll do 180 magic damage if you had 3000 mana. That 180 can be reduced to 150, but it's still 180 magic damage and saying it's 150 is just not descriptive since you don't know their MR.
It's also up to 240 magic damage on every auto attack. Bischu may not like muramana on Nid but I think it's ok.
you don't build muramana for a spearchucker/AP stack nidalee, you build it on a split pushing/bruiser nid. If I run it it's usually with the SV/IBG combo for example, mostly because if you pick up an early manamune your splitpushing turns into beastmode far, far earlier. With that build I generally max spear second or last depending on the enemy, so the flat mura proc on a level 2-3 spear feels a lot more significant
Alright guys, I'm starting to practice my Kitty top and I need some help.
First, I never know whether to build Bruiser or AP. I feel like I play AP better endgame but bruiser better early. I'm also not sure about how to play either efficiently. For example, should I be harassing early with AP nid or solely focus on farming safely? Should I be team fighting with bruiser nid or solely focus on split pushing in solo queue? As far as builds, why do I see some Nids running 9/0/21 for AP?
Any advice in regards to playstyle at different parts of the game would be appreciated
I don't have a lot of experience with bruiser Nid, but I generally only go that route if the team would otherwise be too squishy. That's only because I greatly prefer AP, though.
As AP, you should focus entirely on farming early on. You can't even hope to be aggressive at all until you hit six anyway, and even then, you don't hit very hard until you actually get some AP from items (without support from a ganker, I think you'll lose trades against more heroes than not).
On February 21 2013 04:41 Mondeezy wrote: Alright guys, I'm starting to practice my Kitty top and I need some help.
First, I never know whether to build Bruiser or AP. I feel like I play AP better endgame but bruiser better early. I'm also not sure about how to play either efficiently. For example, should I be harassing early with AP nid or solely focus on farming safely? Should I be team fighting with bruiser nid or solely focus on split pushing in solo queue? As far as builds, why do I see some Nids running 9/0/21 for AP?
Any advice in regards to playstyle at different parts of the game would be appreciated
Bruiser nid you should be harassing as much as possible with your trap/auto combo since you are running ad runes. As far as being aggressive with AP nid I'd recommend making sure you get all the creeps and throw occasional spears from the bushes. If you somehow manage to get them to 50% by the time you are level 6 you can go for an all in. 9-0-21 for AP nid is great for toplane because of the health regen masteries and movespeed masteries. Having the extra temp ward and biscuit are huge for top lane as well. You should always try to split push with nidalee since it is extremely hard to catch you because you are a cat with 9 lives, huehue. Group when your team needs you or when you plan to take bigger objectives aka baron/inhibs.
It depends not only on your lane opponent but also on your team. Some teams are going to benefit much more from an unstoppable splitpusher (bruiser nid) and some are going to benefit from a poke champ (AP nid) who CAN splitpush, but isn't exactly unstoppable. Bruiser nid has a more stable early game (imo?) so if you're against a really tough lane opponent, it may be the better option. Both builds can farm pretty safely, though.
Edit: Hmm, rageblade has been mentioned. What are we going for here? I do like that nidalee can easily have the thing fully stacked at all times, but towards what goal?
On January 29 2013 05:44 sylverfyre wrote: Hm. I hadn't yet tried manamune, but I could see it working. You'd retain some of AP nidalee's spear-poking power, too - interesting. Do you start faerie charm?
Manamune/muramana are not cost efficient on nid. The amount of extra mana that it consumes only results in about 150 extra damage. That could be another spear thrown instead for potentially way more damage. Better off just building AA.
I'd like to see how you came to this conclusion. Also Muramana works off your autoattacks.
Bischu talks about it in his ap nidalee guide on lolking.net. He is pretty much the best ap nid player on na http://www.lolking.net/guides/15766
Check it out, definitely alot of useful information
Manamune isn't being suggested for AP nid (agree with you here, the multiplying on the spear throwing prefers real AP) but rather for a bruiser nid who still wants to be able to throw spears and not suck.
Note how he talks about "Why AP nid works in the first place" when he debunks muramana. It has little to do with Bruiser Nidalee, who can benefit from muramana and use it to "fake" being an AP nid with scary poke power in an item that also lends power to her own build, which works because you harass with ranged autoattacks incessantly, splitpush, and burst low health targets down in cat form while keeping sustained with your base healing values (which have high mana costs)
On February 21 2013 23:05 sylverfyre wrote: It depends not only on your lane opponent but also on your team. Some teams are going to benefit much more from an unstoppable splitpusher (bruiser nid) and some are going to benefit from a poke champ (AP nid) who CAN splitpush, but isn't exactly unstoppable. Bruiser nid has a more stable early game (imo?) so if you're against a really tough lane opponent, it may be the better option. Both builds can farm pretty safely, though.
Edit: Hmm, rageblade has been mentioned. What are we going for here? I do like that nidalee can easily have the thing fully stacked at all times, but towards what goal?
You utilize every stat on rageblade efficiently AND have an easy way of stacking it up to full. On bruiser nidalee, you fully utilize EVERY stat that it gives. AD/AS/AP are all useful and once the passive procs, you get almost as much sustain than a gunblade that you can keep going indefinitely just by pouncing along with even more AS that's useful while in human form.
Can someone explain to me why Voy runs 9/0/21 AP Nid, instead of 21/0/9? Feels like you lose a pretty big chunk of damage for some extra gold and and cdr, not sure if worth.
On January 29 2013 05:37 Thereisnosaurus wrote: best top build for me these days seems to be manamune/iceborn/spirit visage. Absolutely terrifying sustain and dueling power, incredible turret pushing and pretty solid team fight cleanup. I have yet to lose a lane with nid in season 3 using that build, she's a fantastic champ for solo play.
Also I really want to see how a duo elise/nid bot lane would work out, good for making setups, lane control and punishing the opposing ADC stupidly hard when you get to 6.
funny you mentioned that combo, it's actually a cheese duo lane i use with a friend if we want to go 'fuck it, lets win lane and carry game'. we've even tried nashor's/ad/bruiser elise with nidalee as the support. i have no regular core for nidalee bot when she's the AD. generally though, manamune>muramana is not a good choice on nidalee from the games i've played around with it. the extra damage is unnecessary when her base values (and multipliers) are quite high already. Certainly, having the extra mana is more valuable for those oh-so-common prolonged nidalee fights, unless of course you're gosu enough to toggle it on and off constantly for mana control. i value being able to push the lane around with nidalee (in any lane) in order to get a exp/farm advantage. For actual items though, you can literally build anything offensive on nidalee as long as it adds to your performance in lane. I generally like brutalizer, cutlas, or rageblade start--those items listed would be dependant on the level of lane domination you're already asserting, starting at brutalizer for a poorer start, and ending at rageblade for simply killing the opposing players whenever they come to lane.
pretty much the gimmick i've noticed is that the other duo bot don't clue into the strong level 6 that nid-elise have. it is generally an insta-kill once nidalee hits 6 and elise lands the stun. after the cheese kill, it's pretty much easy sailing lane control and zoning until tower-down.
needless to say, the bush control is pretty brutal, and you've pretty much bullied whoever is laning against you into backing to fountain once you've nailed them to half. so far its been 11-0 so far in drafted/ranked games and i feel as bad about cheesing it as i would if i could still 4pool with a 150mineral spawning pool back in starcraft 1. i do have some replays if anyone's really interested.
i'm gonna be honest, i have mained nidalee since season 1, and i'm looking forward to AD Lux (try it out some time!) more than i am nidalee bot. it really sucks if you're able to dominate lane and your team has a difficult time playing around a split-push style because of inexperience or hesitance, though it is still a learning experience.
i have never had a "good" game as nidalee playing from absolute barren farm and from being pushed out of the lane i'm responsible for. a bad nidalee start is pretty disastrous, although redeemable if you're given plenty of time. i have not seen voyboy 2v1 as nidalee, but i would put that down as one of the potential reasons why he would start 9/0/21. the mana/5, cdr, faster exp gain to 6 are all strong for nidalee's sustain, mana-free waveclear, and level 5>6 allins also.
the thing i'm most peeved about when playing nidalee is the change to her autoattack ever since the graphical revamp. there was an obvious change to the windup to her autoattack and it is much less responsive than it used to be (it *was* godly).... along with very tiny changes to her cougar form mechanics that i doubt anybody but a nidalee-holic would understand ;__;
On March 10 2013 16:02 Mondeezy wrote: Can someone explain to me why Voy runs 9/0/21 AP Nid, instead of 21/0/9? Feels like you lose a pretty big chunk of damage for some extra gold and and cdr, not sure if worth.
6% CDR, explorer ward and biscuit ain't ever bad, 3% MS for more mobility/positioning, and the Awareness mastery is really good whenever you need to hit a timing level earlier than your opponent. Voyboy plays AP Nid top, right? Since she's squishier it's even more important for her to hit 6 faster and get Pounce I think.
On February 21 2013 23:05 sylverfyre wrote: It depends not only on your lane opponent but also on your team. Some teams are going to benefit much more from an unstoppable splitpusher (bruiser nid) and some are going to benefit from a poke champ (AP nid) who CAN splitpush, but isn't exactly unstoppable. Bruiser nid has a more stable early game (imo?) so if you're against a really tough lane opponent, it may be the better option. Both builds can farm pretty safely, though.
Edit: Hmm, rageblade has been mentioned. What are we going for here? I do like that nidalee can easily have the thing fully stacked at all times, but towards what goal?
Isn't rageblade worth like 5000 gold in stats when fully stacked and you go under 50% healthy? Seems pretty insane.
This is an ad-top Nidalee build. I have been experimenting with different variations and it feels like I've got this one down pretty solid. This will be my second revision of this build, and first time posting it on TL.
Masteries: 21 Offense: Summoner's Wrath(1), Sorcery(3), Blast(4), Deadliness(4), Havoc(1), WeaponExpertise(1), Arcane Knowledge(1), Brute Force(2), Sunder(3), Executioner(1) 9 Defense: Durability(4), Hardiness(3), Resistance(1), Veteran's Scars(1) (Toss up between hardiness and resistance, I adjust this page depending on the enemy team comp or opponent will lane against)
Runes: Armor: 13 (9seal) Armor Pen: 17 (6mark,3hybrid mark,2hybrid quint, 1quint) Magic Resistance: 12 (9glyph) Magic Pen: 4.6 (3hybrid mark, 2hybrid quint) (I am converting to Hybrid marks and quints for penetration, I realize that I use magical attacks just as much as physical with Nidalee -> Swipe / Leap / Trap. When I first converted to Hybrid Pen I focus'd on a lvl 3 spear at lvl 5/7)
Items: Start - Crystalline Flask, 3 Health pots Early - Giant belt -> boots -> Avarice -> Glacial Shroud Mid - Mercs, Iceborn Gauntlet, Giants belt, Avarice (build into satic shiv)
End - Merc Treads, Iceborn Gauntlet, Static Shiv, Warmogs, BF Sword (Build to IE or BloodThirster), Black Cleaver (or Last Whisper) (Game usually ends before I get to final build, by that time my items will change based off the enemy team comp) The Iceborn + Static Shiv are great for lane pushing / farming, and are very helpful in team fights.
Leveling -> Trap, Heal, Spear, Heal, Heal, Ult, Heal, Trap, Trap, Trap, Ult, Heal, Trap.. (Stop at 4heal, 20 mana and 35 hp less then a lvl 5, and get the trap to lvl 4 for 35% armor and magic penetration, After 4 levels of trap, finish off the lvl 5 heal for the +10 atk speed, 35hp)
Summoner Spells: Flash / Ghost This is only my Top Nidalee build, I find these compliment my style the best. (Both agressive and defensive)
The Avarice is to pick up early gold and the Giants belt is extremly cost effective. I usually pick up the Glacial shroud before Sheen just because the extra armor and cdr. I use the level1 spear if needed for minion farm / bush checking, if you are going bruiser it is not mana cost->damage efficient. Her most important and underused spell is her bushwack. At level 4 it is 215 magic damage over 4 seconds, and a 35% debuff to their armor and magic resistance. with no items that is 43/43% and flat 22 armor pen / 4.6 Mpen with this build. If I get last whisper and level it to 5 that totals 83% armor, 48% magic if they hit it (Assuming they add, I was informed that because one is a debuff the other is an on hit, the debuff would calculate before the on-hit and they would not stack).
I have also been substituting the buff of the lizard eldar for the Statik-shiv. Instead of getting the avarice I would get 2 long swords, get the chain mail for the glacial shroud, and then complete lizard eldar before iceborn.
I use to run with Manamura, Spirit Visage, Blade of the Ruined king. I no longer get a tear of the goddess (no manamura anymore). It is a fantastic item, and I had no problem toggling the 'orb effect' but it got to the point where long drawn out fights left me too low on mana, and without blue you lost sustain potential. Spirit visage is situational, and blade of the ruined king does not pay off if you have a static shiv. Better with an early bf sword or building last whisper / cleaver.
Nid's a pretty interesting champ. After playing Elise and Jayce for a while, I expected her to be a "step down", as she's the older form switching champ, but her mobility and poke are pretty entertaining.
I actualy felt that Chalice worked better on bruiser Nid than either tear item, considering it gives you a bit of extra MR (good against teams with decent AP) and having AP and CDR for your heal isn't a bad thing by any stretch.
unless you meant Athene's unholy grail, which I don't like at all for both AP Nidalee ( not enough AP) or Bruiser ( upgrade not worth it and delays you even further from dealing any dmg)
But how is it not worth on Bruiser? I mean sure, traditionally bruiser Nid focuses on AD, but you have 5 abilities that scale off AP, and given her Cougar form is manaless the CDR is amazing. 25 -> 40 MR is nothing to sneeze at against hard AP champs either, like Elise or Akali (who both got pretty big in my game).
On May 18 2013 00:01 Requizen wrote: I did mean upgrading it, sorry for the confusion.
But how is it not worth on Bruiser? I mean sure, traditionally bruiser Nid focuses on AD, but you have 5 abilities that scale off AP, and given her Cougar form is manaless the CDR is amazing. 25 -> 40 MR is nothing to sneeze at against hard AP champs either, like Elise or Akali (who both got pretty big in my game).
It does not fit the play style. Bruiser is relying on your skills to do damage, and making your champion durable with heavy sustain. Engagements are about exchanging in your favor.
Let me show you: With my runes and masteries as Nidalee I start out with 44 = 31% magic resistance. This means that if someone hits me with a spell that does 100 magic damage, I reduce that down to 69.
Null mantel is 20 magic resistance (66 = 39%) at a cost of 400 gold, is reducing the damage from a 100 damage magical attack down to 61. So 400 gold comes out to 8 extra health. When the spell gets stronger and does 300 damage, then I am saving 24 extra health at the cost of 400 gold.
Chalice is 25 magic resistance (69 = 41%) at a cost of 880. This means that for an additional 480 gold I am reducing 2 extra points of magic damage, or 6 for a spell that does 300 damage.
The Bruiser concept is taking your gold and placing it only into cost effective items. If I were to buy a ruby gem 475gold = 180 hp, I am paying 75 extra gold but he has to hit me more every time we exchange damage.
Assuming we are exchanging 400 health each per engagement. At 1000 base health each, the player with the ruby gem (1180 hp now) would walk away with 980 hp, and the player with the mantel would walk away with 756 health.
This is only basic terms, applying magic resistance. (Vlad, Rumble, Akali) Almost everyone else uses physical damage (meaning that your magic resistance is useless). I am not applying flat or scaling penetration, just like I am not applying damage can be received from multiple sources (both magical and physical, and from a ganking jungler). Do you spend your 1k+ gold on a Chalice and boots (25mres) or a Giants belt (1000gold = 380 hp) if you were getting ganked and exchanging 400 hp for 800hp?
I am fully aware of how resistances and health works, but thanks for the math.
You're assuming that you're getting hit once and then that's it, when all of those champions are going to hit you multiple times. MR reduces each of Vlad's casts, each tick of Flamespitter, and every proc of Akali. In what void is Akali or Vlad going to hit you with a single Q? Rumble's entire kit is better fought with MR than health due to the fact that his big hitters (Q and R) are DoT and reduced a lot by MR.
One you didn't mention was Elise, who is more of a potent threat top lane than Vlad or Rumble right now, and deals % health. Buying a Belt or Ruby against her is just going to make her laugh, while MR + heals will be far more effective.
Not to mention that champions with heals scale better with resists than health.
On May 18 2013 08:43 Requizen wrote: I am fully aware of how resistances and health works, but thanks for the math.
You're assuming that you're getting hit once and then that's it, when all of those champions are going to hit you multiple times. MR reduces each of Vlad's casts, each tick of Flamespitter, and every proc of Akali. In what void is Akali or Vlad going to hit you with a single Q? Rumble's entire kit is better fought with MR than health due to the fact that his big hitters (Q and R) are DoT and reduced a lot by MR.
One you didn't mention was Elise, who is more of a potent threat top lane than Vlad or Rumble right now, and deals % health. Buying a Belt or Ruby against her is just going to make her laugh, while MR + heals will be far more effective.
Not to mention that champions with heals scale better with resists than health.
This is why I used 'exchange' examples because I was certain you would not comprehend. Since when does a q do 400 damage when you only have 1000 hp? this is saying that both players are capable of combo'ing a series of attacks that will come out to about 400 damage to each side, fair assumption? If you are coming out of an engagement taking more damage then your opponent then you would agree you did not engage well?
Rumble's window of opportunity is right after is flame spitter ends, in which case the outcome of an engagement would be in your favor. If you take into consideration his entire combo and each abilities cool downs, you will come out with more hp had you chosen health items over magic resistance. IF you choose to take damage constantly over a longer period of time then magic resistance is arguable a better choice (This is recommended for characters that do not have mobility to get away or a nidalee that fails at doing so)
A heal is a heal, it does not scale based off your health and thus it is only factor is the casting time. You take the time it takes to cast the spell and the amount healed to determine your heal per min. Magic resistance does not increase my heal, and a ruby gem does not increase my heal. With the upgraded chalice you are increasing your heal by roughly 45. If you would like to argue the 1% missing health from elise I can pull up the math for that too, it was nerfed recently.
EDIT: Thanks for mentioning elise, I completely forgot cause I dont usually see ap top. But there are more physical damage champions you will go up against, and health will deter both physical and magical. characters top.
Not to mention that champions with heals scale better with resists than health.
A heal is a heal, it does not scale based off your health and thus it is only factor is the casting time. You take the time it takes to cast the spell and the amount healed to determine your heal per min. Magic resistance does not increase my heal, and a ruby gem does not increase my heal.
You're looking at resistances very wrong. Effective healing directly scales with resistances - if you have 100 MR and Armor, your heals are twice as effective as if you had zero. A 200 hp heal will take 400 raw damage to burn through in this case. Champs that have large sources of free hp (heals, shields) greatly benefit from resistances compared with the rest of the cast - Riven and Nunu are prime examples besides Nidalee herself.
Also, you're looking at the net damage reduction after resistances (with a lot of resists, adding more seems to reduce the incoming damage by a small amount) but that's not really the right way to look at it. For any fixed value of HP, any resistance item gives you the same effective health no matter what the resistance is at, whether you have 0 Armor/MR or 300.
On May 18 2013 08:43 Requizen wrote: Rumble's entire kit is better fought with MR than health due to the fact that his big hitters (Q and R) are DoT and reduced a lot by MR.
On May 18 2013 09:33 DanceSC wrote: IF you choose to take damage constantly over a longer period of time then magic resistance is arguable a better choice
The extended period of time is your entire laning phase between trips back to fountain. Why does it matter whether damage was exchanged in one outdrawn engagement or two brief engagements in succession? Why is it relevant whether Rumble's Q is DoT or burst, as long as the damage isn't enough to 100-0 you? (Vlad's Q isn't DoT, but MR is just as effective as it would be if it were DoT)
As for healing scaling with resistances, I think everyone agrees that MR is pointless against physical damage. The math on items by DancerSC is not very useful; there's no point in comparing % damage reduction with flat HP using arbitrarily chosen damage values.
It's also wrong to say "champions with heals scale better with resists than health" -- they scale better with resists /than other champions/ do. Whether they scale better with resists than with health depends on your current level of resists and your expected mixture of physical/magical damage. It's not true that building resists before HP is necessarily better just because you have a heal.
Consider DanceSC's scenario of two people with 1000hp. If you're only ever taking 400 damage from your opponent, you don't need any defensive items to begin with, so that example is useless. Defensive items pay off once you're in danger of dying. A more useful number is how much damage your opponent needs to inflict on you before you die. Suppose for simplicity that you have 44 starting magic resistance and all the opponent's damage is magical -- no auto-attacks, no minion damage, no jungler (all of which would skew the numbers in favor of health over MR).
If you buy a ruby gem, you have 44 MR and 1180 HP. The opponent will kill you if he deals 1699 magical damage. (144/100*1180) If you buy a null-magic mantle, you have 64MR and 1000 HP. The opponent will kill you if he deals 1640 magical damage. (164/100*1000) In the absence of heals and physical damage, the ruby gem is a better purchase in this hypothetical scenario.
Healing X HP increases your EHP against magical damage by X*(100+MR)/100. In this example, having the null-magic mantle will heal you for 0.2X more EHP than having the ruby gem. The null-magic mantle will be a better purchase in this scenario once you heal more than 300 HP. (5*(1699-1640)) It doesn't matter what healed you; 300 HP is as little as 2 HP potions, and Nidalee's E alone will easily do more than 300HP in a realistic laning scenario. So, if you take heals into account but assume no physical damage, the null-magic mantle is indeed a better purchase [against people who can't kill you before you cast E a few times].
If you take physical damage into account the balance will swing into favor of the ruby gem again. In any realistic laning scenario, your early-game (since we're assuming you're at ~1k HP) will include a significant amount of physical damage. I'm not going to do the math again, but it's easy to see how you can just pick some ratio of magical/physical damage and see what ends up on top.
Either way this particular example doesn't seem to strongly favor either purchase; other factors will be a lot more relevant in practice. (75 gold for ruby gem is an extra ward, for example)
Started playing bruiser nid top after seeing flame do the BOTRK > SV build in OGN. Would like a little help on lane matchups. Are there any champs that you should really not pick nid vs? So far she seems ridiculously easy to farm on in lane, really good autos, easy getaways post 6.
Also ive been going max reqw is this normal for bruiser/ad nid? (just for max sustain to farm up till 6 usually then i start getting more agressive, or I wait till I have botrk or at least cutlass before I get aggressive).
Also starting items for bruiser nid? I have been doing longsword 1 ward start which sounds pretty weird but seems to go ok... as long as I don't die at level 1 (which I haven't yet).
P.S I was looking at that ad/bruiser nid build up the top of this page and I really wouldnt do that build... Don't really want to build statik or a BF sword, don't see the point. So far my builds on nid have gone more like BORTK > SV or Frozen Heart > randuins or triforce if i need more dmg. Thoughts? Am I way off?
On August 23 2013 13:51 ZataN wrote: Started playing bruiser nid top after seeing flame do the BOTRK > SV build in OGN. Would like a little help on lane matchups. Are there any champs that you should really not pick nid vs? So far she seems ridiculously easy to farm on in lane, really good autos, easy getaways post 6.
Also ive been going max reqw is this normal for bruiser/ad nid? (just for max sustain to farm up till 6 usually then i start getting more agressive, or I wait till I have botrk or at least cutlass before I get aggressive).
Also starting items for bruiser nid? I have been doing longsword 1 ward start which sounds pretty weird but seems to go ok... as long as I don't die at level 1 (which I haven't yet).
P.S I was looking at that ad/bruiser nid build up the top of this page and I really wouldnt do that build... Don't really want to build statik or a BF sword, don't see the point. So far my builds on nid have gone more like BORTK > SV or Frozen Heart > randuins or triforce if i need more dmg. Thoughts? Am I way off?
Especially with the altered triforce that looks pretty good. Can also get iceborn instead of FH (improved waveclear, nice poke but not as good as Tri.)
wow, nidalee is so much fun, just bought her and am learning her mechanics on dominion (building bruiser style, triforce/bork and sv/randuin whatever, not the gay ap spear for half your health shit)
QUESTION which i forgot to ask: when you're doing the trick where you auto in human and change to cougar to Q for the execute damage...is it supposed to be reliable? i think i've only managed to do it successfully a few times, maybe ping too high?
On August 23 2013 13:51 ZataN wrote: Started playing bruiser nid top after seeing flame do the BOTRK > SV build in OGN. Would like a little help on lane matchups. Are there any champs that you should really not pick nid vs? So far she seems ridiculously easy to farm on in lane, really good autos, easy getaways post 6.
Also ive been going max reqw is this normal for bruiser/ad nid? (just for max sustain to farm up till 6 usually then i start getting more agressive, or I wait till I have botrk or at least cutlass before I get aggressive).
Also starting items for bruiser nid? I have been doing longsword 1 ward start which sounds pretty weird but seems to go ok... as long as I don't die at level 1 (which I haven't yet).
P.S I was looking at that ad/bruiser nid build up the top of this page and I really wouldnt do that build... Don't really want to build statik or a BF sword, don't see the point. So far my builds on nid have gone more like BORTK > SV or Frozen Heart > randuins or triforce if i need more dmg. Thoughts? Am I way off?
Especially with the altered triforce that looks pretty good. Can also get iceborn instead of FH (improved waveclear, nice poke but not as good as Tri.)
Yeah ive been playing more bruiser nid recently, just rushing triforce and its been rad. Playing nidalee is super fun, feels like she is the champ with the highest skill cap in the game (well... tied with lee sin?).
On August 23 2013 13:51 ZataN wrote: Started playing bruiser nid top after seeing flame do the BOTRK > SV build in OGN. Would like a little help on lane matchups. Are there any champs that you should really not pick nid vs? So far she seems ridiculously easy to farm on in lane, really good autos, easy getaways post 6.
Also ive been going max reqw is this normal for bruiser/ad nid? (just for max sustain to farm up till 6 usually then i start getting more agressive, or I wait till I have botrk or at least cutlass before I get aggressive).
Also starting items for bruiser nid? I have been doing longsword 1 ward start which sounds pretty weird but seems to go ok... as long as I don't die at level 1 (which I haven't yet).
P.S I was looking at that ad/bruiser nid build up the top of this page and I really wouldnt do that build... Don't really want to build statik or a BF sword, don't see the point. So far my builds on nid have gone more like BORTK > SV or Frozen Heart > randuins or triforce if i need more dmg. Thoughts? Am I way off?
Especially with the altered triforce that looks pretty good. Can also get iceborn instead of FH (improved waveclear, nice poke but not as good as Tri.)
Yeah ive been playing more bruiser nid recently, just rushing triforce and its been rad. Playing nidalee is super fun, feels like she is the champ with the highest skill cap in the game (well... tied with lee sin?).
I might try some iceborn, havent done that yet.
Unsure how bruiser nidalee could be considered highest skillcap in the game.
On August 23 2013 13:51 ZataN wrote: Started playing bruiser nid top after seeing flame do the BOTRK > SV build in OGN. Would like a little help on lane matchups. Are there any champs that you should really not pick nid vs? So far she seems ridiculously easy to farm on in lane, really good autos, easy getaways post 6.
Also ive been going max reqw is this normal for bruiser/ad nid? (just for max sustain to farm up till 6 usually then i start getting more agressive, or I wait till I have botrk or at least cutlass before I get aggressive).
Also starting items for bruiser nid? I have been doing longsword 1 ward start which sounds pretty weird but seems to go ok... as long as I don't die at level 1 (which I haven't yet).
P.S I was looking at that ad/bruiser nid build up the top of this page and I really wouldnt do that build... Don't really want to build statik or a BF sword, don't see the point. So far my builds on nid have gone more like BORTK > SV or Frozen Heart > randuins or triforce if i need more dmg. Thoughts? Am I way off?
Especially with the altered triforce that looks pretty good. Can also get iceborn instead of FH (improved waveclear, nice poke but not as good as Tri.)
Yeah ive been playing more bruiser nid recently, just rushing triforce and its been rad. Playing nidalee is super fun, feels like she is the champ with the highest skill cap in the game (well... tied with lee sin?).
I might try some iceborn, havent done that yet.
Unsure how bruiser nidalee could be considered highest skillcap in the game.
the q execute damage and the q spears to throw. you can give your ad a steriod but you have no cc. Her skills are a lot more independent of eachother then say jayce or elise too.
On August 23 2013 13:51 ZataN wrote: Started playing bruiser nid top after seeing flame do the BOTRK > SV build in OGN. Would like a little help on lane matchups. Are there any champs that you should really not pick nid vs? So far she seems ridiculously easy to farm on in lane, really good autos, easy getaways post 6.
Also ive been going max reqw is this normal for bruiser/ad nid? (just for max sustain to farm up till 6 usually then i start getting more agressive, or I wait till I have botrk or at least cutlass before I get aggressive).
Also starting items for bruiser nid? I have been doing longsword 1 ward start which sounds pretty weird but seems to go ok... as long as I don't die at level 1 (which I haven't yet).
P.S I was looking at that ad/bruiser nid build up the top of this page and I really wouldnt do that build... Don't really want to build statik or a BF sword, don't see the point. So far my builds on nid have gone more like BORTK > SV or Frozen Heart > randuins or triforce if i need more dmg. Thoughts? Am I way off?
Especially with the altered triforce that looks pretty good. Can also get iceborn instead of FH (improved waveclear, nice poke but not as good as Tri.)
Yeah ive been playing more bruiser nid recently, just rushing triforce and its been rad. Playing nidalee is super fun, feels like she is the champ with the highest skill cap in the game (well... tied with lee sin?).
I might try some iceborn, havent done that yet.
Unsure how bruiser nidalee could be considered highest skillcap in the game.
I ment nidalee in general, probably more so AP nid as more reliance on hitting skillshots. Still i feel like her kit gives you lots of room to outplay if you are good, however it can be hard to use all her skills together in a cohesive fashion.
hey im wondering if anyone has any tank ish nidalee builds. I am really interested in playing more of this champion but I am not a super high level so going full AP for poke doesnt seem to work. THere are a lot of times where I feel that cougar form would be awesome to move in and try to take down the kill in melee range, but when i go AP i am defenseless and die too fast. Do i just need bigger burst? or is investing in a chain vest worth it if I want to get into the front lines?
^ This is why imo Athene's in better than a tear build on Nid because of the early magic resist (though later you do get the shield with a tear), it's also why Nid builds Zhonya's and usually takes barrier over ignite.
Mostly, survival in cougar form has more to do with timing. Knowing when you'll be able to jump in and chunk/kill someone is important and is what makes you a good Nid, most people will hit an acceptable amount of spears if they're playing against people their skill level.
On April 06 2014 10:36 tl2212 wrote: hey im wondering if anyone has any tank ish nidalee builds. I am really interested in playing more of this champion but I am not a super high level so going full AP for poke doesnt seem to work. THere are a lot of times where I feel that cougar form would be awesome to move in and try to take down the kill in melee range, but when i go AP i am defenseless and die too fast. Do i just need bigger burst? or is investing in a chain vest worth it if I want to get into the front lines?
There is a streamer named RFLegendary that is known for his high level bruiser nidalee. He takes ad runes and masteries, ignite, Doran's Blade, and usually rushes IBG. The rest of the build is tanky as I remember, SV, Randuin, etc., often with a BotRK depending on when, if ever, you're ahead. He also maxes E first instead of Q. The play style is different and your spears don't hurt much, and you still can't wade into a 5v5 and live for that long, but it sounds like what you were hoping for. Good peel, good stick, good utility, pretty tanky; I would only take this top lane, though. Look up RFLegendary and watch some of his gameplay to get a feel for the different play style.
On April 06 2014 14:24 InfSunday wrote: ^ This is why imo Athene's in better than a tear build on Nid because of the early magic resist (though later you do get the shield with a tear), it's also why Nid builds Zhonya's and usually takes barrier over ignite.
Mostly, survival in cougar form has more to do with timing. Knowing when you'll be able to jump in and chunk/kill someone is important and is what makes you a good Nid, most people will hit an acceptable amount of spears if they're playing against people their skill level.
I really like the double shield from archangel+barrier, you can get your deathcap way faster. The only downside is that you're blue buff reliant, but i never seem to have bad junglers.
This pounce change is throwing me off >_>. I can no longer pre-aim with my cursor for pounce away -> transform -> spear. Instead I just pounce into the enemy and die.
If you want free elo play nidalee right now. Any role tbh except maybe adc and even that is debatable. She's just so strong early with the cougar form at level 1. All builds work : ad/bruiser/ap whatever. All-in every time you hit a skill with the hunt buff. Look for skirmishes/roam opportunities early. Always win elo never not win elo.
Also I'm really curious what they meant with halving the width of the projectile because it's still really easy to land (nothing like jarvan eq or shen e change).
Her skirmishes are really Fcking strong. That hunt debuff+takedown is such a strong execute. But she is still somewhat weaker in the late game since the people I played with really miss a bunch of Spears while building full AP. It definitely looks to be harder to hit Spears.But her Midgame and skirmish is really strong in the hands of somebody who can play nida
Her pre-6 is great now, but her post-6 is absolutely god awful. They removed all the damage from her late game spears and not only do you have to hit a Spear (Which is half the size now) to all in someone to even have a chance to 1v1 them late game, you simply have no damage output in team fights because you have to yolo in their face with no defenses or reliable escape.
How do you expect to Cougar form their backline as NIDALEE? You have no tankiness as a top laner and you do no damage as a mid laner.
On June 21 2014 20:07 Figgy wrote: Her pre-6 is great now, but her post-6 is absolutely god awful. They removed all the damage from her late game spears and not only do you have to hit a Spear (Which is half the size now) to all in someone to even have a chance to 1v1 them late game, you simply have no damage output in team fights because you have to yolo in their face with no defenses or reliable escape.
How do you expect to Cougar form their backline as NIDALEE? You have no tankiness as a top laner and you do no damage as a mid laner.
AP Nidalee is completely dead.
Maybe you can build her AD or something now <_<
lol bruiser nidalee top is not as effective as ap, you have way too many hard counters, you should be going ad. I personally level the spears last with her, the traps are much more effective in winning the bruiser battles and gank awareness.
anyway i'm experimenting with a hybrid build hextech gunblade, iceborne, wits end, then boots and tanky items 21/9/0 getting cdr double edged sword and executioner with AP and AD damage but not the % ones on either then the hybrid pen
hybrid reds, lane dependent yellows/blues and AD quints, it feels pretty stronger wherever you play it honestly, feels a lot like bruiser kassadin
What does everyone think of this build? Trinity Force or Iceborn Gauntlet -> Haunting Guise -> Sorc Boot -> Frozen Heart + Spirit Visage -> GA.
Summoner Spell: Flash/TP. Split push forever. Only TP to team if you draw someone top for a 5v4. Masteries: 21/9/0 Runes: 3 AD Quints, 9 Hybrid Pen marks, 5 flat health seals + 4 scaling armor seals, 9 flat MR gylph or 9 scaling MR glyphs (depending on AD or AP opponent)
On July 08 2014 13:15 ZataN wrote: Probably don't need that gunblade. You have a heal in your kit.
yeah but it lets you trade a lot longer, for me its a trade off between, bursting someone down out right, or out sustaining then, then bursting them. you shouldn't be using your heal much if you go a more modern nidalee build/playstyle.
Are you guys building Nid as a bruiser or more as a full AP champ? I still hate getting bursted down and chain cc'd so I tried her with a bruiser build today in the jungle. I cleared the super slow way, but I could sustain in the jungle.
With regards to the triforce/ibg/gunblade builds, I feel like the AD is rather wasted. Every time I check the end game damage to champions, it shows me that between 80 and 90% of my damage is magic. So I hate building things that are primarily physical damage items because I don't think Nidalee is making good use of those stats.
I do feel like she needs a slow. I should probably incorporate rylai's into my build. It'd help me chase better.
I was checking out the MYM vs Gambit game today and + Show Spoiler +
Diamond played Nidalee. So his build was this
I can't tell what the jungle enchant is but since he has merc treads I can assume it's magus. Which makes his build pretty bruisery. He still played safe, pouncing in on hunted targets only to pounce back out when he thought he might be leaving himself open.
Obviously LCS play isn't what you expect to see in yoloqueue, but maybe there's some merit to bruiser? I'll try some more AP out for sure with your suggestion to play her more like old nid again.
Also if you're going AP do you still build trinity force or ibg on Nid? Most people seem to be building lichbane on lolking, but then I learned yesterday that Nid's cougar Q, like Poppy's, converts triforce and ibg to magic damage. Which is huge with regards to enemy armor and your mpen.
EPT![[image loading]](http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091218195114/leagueoflegends/images/7/7c/NidaleeSquare.png)
![[image loading]](http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091212172408/leagueoflegends/images/c/ce/Prowl.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091212172332/leagueoflegends/images/e/e2/JavelinToss.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091212172339/leagueoflegends/images/0/02/Bushwhack.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091212172347/leagueoflegends/images/1/1f/PrimalSurge.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091212172355/leagueoflegends/images/3/37/AspectoftheCougar.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091212172628/leagueoflegends/images/d/d5/Takedown.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091212172636/leagueoflegends/images/f/f4/Pounce.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091212172644/leagueoflegends/images/a/a4/Swipe.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/4793/nidalee.png)
. Just abuse your mobility to ward everywhere and try to gank someone with your team.
![[image loading]](http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/5290/pounce1.png)
![[image loading]](http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/1927/pounce2.png)
![[image loading]](http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/287/pounce3.png)
![[image loading]](http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/2777/pounce4.png)
![[image loading]](http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/7461/pounce5.png)
![[image loading]](http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/8950/pounce7.png)
. Love hotshotgg's guide for it.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/PleQmqE.jpg)
