EPTWhy not just run dodge seals on him though? I never seem to have mana problems on singed, (and I don't even bother with the philo stone)
[Champion] Singed - Page 4
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Haemonculus
United States6980 Posts
Why not just run dodge seals on him though? I never seem to have mana problems on singed, (and I don't even bother with the philo stone) | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
As for mana- I don't run into significant issues unless I haven't gone back to base in a long time, but that is usually the case- midgame I'm ganking, wrecking minion waves, and engaging in team fights a lot. The mobility that the quick boots/Force of Nature gives you in conjunction with teleport lets you be in the enemy's face practically everywhere if you want to be. A starting Philosopher's stone is an interesting idea, but would delay Force of Nature a lot, which is the difference between 18 hp/5 and ~45 hp/5 and a slightly slower speed. I think having it come after Force of Nature would increase sustainability, at the cost of a later Sunfire Cape and Rod of Ages... not sure if it would be worth it. Maybe if I swap out the glyphs for magic resist ones. I don't think Eleisa's Miracle is a great item for its cost though(no defensive stats or mana except tenacity.. Mercury Treads does that- suppose it gives the option of having tenacity and Boots of Swiftness, at the cost of a more expensive item down the line), so Philospher's Stone is a bit of a dead end. Radiun's Omen doesn't particularly synergize well with Singed either, so Heart of Gold is a bit of a dead end too. | ||
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HyperionDreamer
Canada1528 Posts
Only takes 13 minutes and ~30 seconds for philo to pay for itself, assuming you sell it. Fast catalyst still better imo, which is why I'll open mana crystal in lanes that are easy to harass, boots in hard lanes. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
as singed you dont win alot of lanes early game, so philo along with cat gets your big items faster IMO. Roa is the single best upgrade for cat if your good with math and I dont like delaying FoN with rilays after cat how many players do. after philo, mercs roa you get ofc FoN and then an armor item. Sunfire is ok but I like frozen heart much much more because it makes you way more disruptive with the cdr and the aura while you get a fuckton of armor, mana and even a bit health from it (passive). Also its again a good counter to alot of champs that rely on attackspeed (vayne, ww etc) and mandreds in general. Also thornmail should not be bad on singed but I mostly dont buy it. After the armor item it really depends but most of time getting a rilay is a good option. Abyssmal or any kind of tank item works too if you need it. and philo is by no means a dead end. In 99% of the games you will not come to the stage where you need that 6th slot and if so, then philo payed for itself 3 times so selling it wont hurt at all. Even if you safe up for a ward slot. | ||
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rewtamus
United States327 Posts
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R04R
United States1631 Posts
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
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rewtamus
United States327 Posts
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Mazer
Canada1086 Posts
Flat HP quints Dodge yellows MR pen reds Flat MR blues Usually start Boots/pots but I do Regrowth/pot or Sapphire/pots now and then. Philo Stone on first buy unless I feel the need to grab Tabi right away. With Tabi alone, I'll end the game with ~110 AR (plus the ult) which is a fair amount when combined with the 19% dodge (important to take the dodge move speed mastery). Still, if the other team is AD heavy, I might pick up an HoG after Philo otherwise I work towards a catalyst (Sapphire first). To make up for the lack of Merc Treads, Philo Stone becomes Eleisa's at any point I feel I need for CC reduction but that's usually later on. Can make it Shurelya's otherwise (again, late game). Eleisia's plus the ult has been enough for me to not buy QSS in a while. After hitting 6, you can usually start being a bully and that's even more true once you get catalyst. I find using his ult anytime it's off CD is worth it unless my flash/ghost are down (save the ult to escape a gank at that point). The only thing that really slows me down is a good jungler so keep river warded. RoA is first big item. I think that's a no-brainer for the most part. Negatron cloak next which will become FoN asap unless I start with an HoG in which case I'll work towards Randuin's before completing FoN. I find the movement speed bonus to be the main reason why I take FoN over Banshee's Veil. At that point, it really depends on how the game is going. MR: Abyssal is a good pickup. AR: With Randuin's and the dodge set-up, it's usually enough. Not sure why zerodas is saying Randuin doesn't synergize particularly well when it offers two ways of slowing enemies that you're trying to flee from or fling. If for some reason you still need more AR, Frozen Heart for sure ( > Sunfire). Close it off with Rylai's. Warmog's or Deathcap or Void Staff for giggles. I hardly ever get to this point though. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
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Mazer
Canada1086 Posts
On August 12 2011 02:40 Sponkz wrote: I don't get RoA as first item, but guess that's just me. And why would you get rylai's as last item? Seeing as you don't stack AP at all, it seems to be better just getting it after your catalyst+philo+whatever. I usually end up as the main tank so I try not to focus too much on AP but rather AR/MR which is why Rylai's comes at earliest after FoN. The exception might be we already have a tank and/or we lack AP damage but that has rarely been the case. I could see why you might take Rylai's earlier on as it's a wicked item on Singed (moreso for the slow imo). But the difference in AP to RoA is negligible (become even after 10 minutes) and they cost about the same but you already have 40% of the cost covered with Catalyst (which could make up a good chunk of that 10 minutes already). I just think leaving catalyst undeveloped for the time it takes you to complete a Rylai's is a bit of a waste. And then you might not even have enough time to fully level RoA after Rylai's/tank items depending on how the game's going. Maybe if the catalyst bonus didn't carry on to RoA (like in the past), then I would see it as a more viable route to go. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
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Mazer
Canada1086 Posts
On August 12 2011 02:58 Sponkz wrote: Well catalyst -> rylai -> Banshee -> whatever is just so good imo. Didn't see you mention Banshee at all ;p. That changes a lot since you might not need FoN for a little while after that. And I don't see how your approach 'stacks AP' noticeably more than the RoA start. Seems totally viable though but I still believe that RoA is a top notch first item. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
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broz0rs
United States2294 Posts
In any case, moral of the story: RoA -> armor or mres item depending on opposing team's makeup or hard carry. | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On August 12 2011 03:12 Mazer wrote: Didn't see you mention Banshee at all ;p. That changes a lot since you might not need FoN for a little while after that. And I don't see how your approach 'stacks AP' noticeably more than the RoA start. Seems totally viable though but I still believe that RoA is a top notch first item. RoA just doesn't supply you with anything but health as a useful stat (well mana is good but only because it gives you HP). You would be better off saving your catalyst for a banshee's after finishing rylai's which provides your Q with a 15% slow. That's hurtful to the carries in early team fights. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On August 12 2011 05:49 Sponkz wrote: RoA just doesn't supply you with anything but health as a useful stat (well mana is good but only because it gives you HP). You would be better off saving your catalyst for a banshee's after finishing rylai's which provides your Q with a 15% slow. That's hurtful to the carries in early team fights. I find roa, fon allways a better buildup than rilay banshees because: - you get more MS - you get more MR - you get faster MR - Spellblock is bad on most bruisers/tanks - the additional regen synergizes well with singed - RoA is aside from rageblade the most costefficient item excluding snowball items (both rilay and banshees are not that costefficient) - Singed gets more stats from RoA because of his passive - FoN is the most costefficient tank item (excluding the healthregen. This is a bonus.) - RoA should be gotten early while Rilay can be bought at any time. the slow on rilay is nice but much more situational than straightup MS. Banshees is good on ranged/squishy champs that get into fights after the initiation. Singed is a straightup bruiser/tank and the banshee shield will block some shitty spell 99% of the time and not something usefull. Also any kind of sustained magical damage dealer, may it be amumu/malz/brand/ryze/cassio etc laughs at banshees but cries if you have a FoN. Especially if they have magical % damage. The faster MR is also very important because you often need it ASAP before deathcaps finish which you will less likely with the cata rilay banshee opening. Theres also this: It doesnt matter when you get rilays. You can get it after FoN or after your first armor item. In the other hand you shouldnt get a late RoA. If you have a build with 5-6 items with roa then it will be likely better rounded than a build without it. If you argue that the slow is higher on rilays than the speed on FoN ok. But you allready have the strongest AoE slow in the game. The additional MS lets you catch ppl with fling way better, lets you juke easyer if your opponents can avoid the poison, lets you push more aggressively because your mobile. The only viable point to make is that alot of singed's tankyness comes from his insane regen during his ultimate and when you get FoN your easyer "countered" by ignite. Well if they have to use ignite on you then your carries will applaud. A good opponent will also only ignite you if he knows he (no actually "they") can kill you with it + its worth it. That means you overextended 1v5 or your whole team is dead. -> my conclusion is that roa+fon is overall better for singed and I think the cata+rilay into banshees opening comes from some patches ago where Roa didnt have the regeneration on level up so you actually hurt your laneing if you rushed it. Now since it retains the insane laneing sustain of cata I would never upgrade this into banshees on singed. | ||
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