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Kaniol
Poland5551 Posts
On November 09 2010 07:02 WaveofShadow wrote: So, upon trying out Annie in a practice game, I noticed I was NOT getting Mejai's stacks for a Tibbers kill. Is this a bug? Or is this true for all pets, ie Morde? You don't get golem when Tibbers kills it either | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
they can still flash away from q and land under tower range where u'll be unable to hit them without diving, exposing yourself to jungle ganks and tibbers will not do as much dmg/ tower autotargets annie not tibbers. Flash tibbers allows you to walk tibbers and yourself past the champ in their path to run, allowing you to autoattack and burn them with tibbers, flash + q does not. not to mention tibbers range >> q range by far. Most people underestimate tibbers flash range, but they should be well out of flash+ q range if they're not awful dring-> dshield, as annie won't take much dmg if you play smart, - her auto attack is longest - her stun allows u to combo then safely run out. if you take hits and need dshield it is because you are playing bad. - - - - - - - + Show Spoiler [tl;dr] + gtrsrs is wrong flash + tibbers> flash + q dring> dshield | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
ap is nice, hp is nice, mp5 is nice.... yes, the passive element on q negates some of the mana consumption in lane, but its not like you're sitting there q'ing ONLY to last-hit creeps, you're going to be harassing with your skills too | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 20 2010 10:09 HeavOnEarth wrote: dring-> dshield, as annie won't take much dmg if you play smart, - her auto attack is longest - her stun allows u to combo then safely run out. Playing smart doesn't necessarily entail not taking damage--DShield increases the number of situations where you can make trades, which makes it more likely that you can push people into burst range for when you hit level 6. DShield is clearly the right start at least some (and probably most) of the time--else TheOddOne, Salce, Reginald and other better Annie players wouldn't be starting with it in virtually every game I've ever seen them play Annie, and they're all good enough players that I wouldn't say that them taking DShield is just a product of them "playing bad". I'd like to distinguish in which situations DRing is the better way to start (if there are such situations at all), and saying that DRing is straight up better is both unhelpful and probably wrong. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On December 20 2010 10:09 HeavOnEarth wrote: tibbers-> combo they can still flash away from q and land under tower range where u'll be unable to hit them without diving, exposing yourself to jungle ganks and tibbers will not do as much dmg/ tower autotargets annie not tibbers. Flash tibbers allows you to walk tibbers and yourself past the champ in their path to run, allowing you to autoattack and burn them with tibbers, flash + q does not. not to mention tibbers range >> q range by far. Most people underestimate tibbers flash range, but they should be well out of flash+ q range if they're not awful dring-> dshield, as annie won't take much dmg if you play smart, - her auto attack is longest - her stun allows u to combo then safely run out. if you take hits and need dshield it is because you are playing bad. - - - - - - - + Show Spoiler [tl;dr] + gtrsrs is wrong flash + tibbers> flash + q dring> dshield also beware of summoners who take teleport and just teleport out of the lane after you stun, eating greasy foods while playing (which can cause your fingers to slip and accidentally hit E instead of Q), junglers who sit in the brush for hours at a time waiting for you to flash->Q and pounce on you, and people who literally type "u'll" have to be ready for anything in this game. to barbsq, ap is nice but not as nice on annie as it is on other people imo, and armor is a better stat early-game. hp IS nice which is why we want to max it via dshield. mp5 is the worst stat in the game to pay for with gold, take mp5/level yellows. hp regen lets you make mistakes without being forced out of the lane for it. i would only take dring right now when i know i'll be in a lane against another solo caster that wants to spam a lot and i need to keep up with them with constant nuking damage (leblanc maybe, maybe malphite? but i don't think that would turn out well either) | ||
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
On December 20 2010 11:50 TheYango wrote: Playing smart doesn't necessarily entail not taking damage--DShield increases the number of situations where you can make trades, which makes it more likely that you can push people into burst range for when you hit level 6. DShield is clearly the right start at least some (and probably most) of the time--else TheOddOne, Salce, Reginald and other better Annie players wouldn't be starting with it in virtually every game I've ever seen them play Annie, and they're all good enough players that I wouldn't say that them taking DShield is just a product of them "playing bad". I'd like to distinguish in which situations DRing is the better way to start (if there are such situations at all), and saying that DRing is straight up better is both unhelpful and probably wrong. salce and reginald's annies are fucking awful. if they're taking dshield that would be a reason NOT to do it. lol | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23464 Posts
I mean, if you're building HP instead of AP that's great but the problem is annie has basically zero base defensive skills, the shield helps in situations where you want to finish the other dude off first thus the magic/armour and damage on hit effect. I find with annie you should keep out of spell range until your spells are off cooldown. Even going in for an incinerate I find VERY risky. As such, I find going heavy defensive items bad because if you are taking that much damage you're probably going to die if you can't get away but its wasted if the tanky or melee's are taking the damage. It makes more sense to get stuff like rod of ages or MAYBE a banshee's veil that gives you enough for laning and to survive some burst with your defensive skills but you get owned by any kind of focus fire. But that's OK, because the way annie works you unload your burst even 5 seconds or so, which benefits the most from only running in to range for 2-3 spells then you run out again, that way you get your maximum damage and maximum survivability, and you have ghost/flash if the teamfight didn't go your way. Getting defensive items on other characters makes a lot of sense when being in range of the other guy for longer means more damage from auto attacks. Doran's shield is armour and hp/5 vs 15 AP and mp/5. The way I see is that you typically don't get hit by melee in lane phase so you don't really need the armour, and I'd say mp5 vs hp5 depends on the lane opponent(s) and partner if its a 2v2 lane. In any case mp5 allows you to harass with your fireball and unload burst to threaten without being totally defenseless. hp/5 allows you to stay in lane farming but you can't really harass well. The 20 hp difference is not a big deal, and I'd say the 15 AP is useful midgame and helps your laning phase if you harass. Call it a .6 ratio but 10 damage on a tibbers/fireball/incinerate/run/fireball combo is 40 damage which can make the difference between a kill easily. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
On December 20 2010 21:45 Slayer91 wrote: I don't understand the complaints about AP being bad. The reason your ratio's are low is because ALL your damage basically benefits from it. The only other damage increasing tool is cooldown reduction and that's less burst which is annie's greatest asset. I mean, if you're building HP instead of AP that's great but the problem is annie has basically zero base defensive skills, the shield helps in situations where you want to finish the other dude off first thus the magic/armour and damage on hit effect. I find with annie you should keep out of spell range until your spells are off cooldown. Even going in for an incinerate I find VERY risky. As such, I find going heavy defensive items bad because if you are taking that much damage you're probably going to die if you can't get away but its wasted if the tanky or melee's are taking the damage. It makes more sense to get stuff like rod of ages or MAYBE a banshee's veil that gives you enough for laning and to survive some burst with your defensive skills but you get owned by any kind of focus fire. But that's OK, because the way annie works you unload your burst even 5 seconds or so, which benefits the most from only running in to range for 2-3 spells then you run out again, that way you get your maximum damage and maximum survivability, and you have ghost/flash if the teamfight didn't go your way. Getting defensive items on other characters makes a lot of sense when being in range of the other guy for longer means more damage from auto attacks. Doran's shield is armour and hp/5 vs 15 AP and mp/5. The way I see is that you typically don't get hit by melee in lane phase so you don't really need the armour, and I'd say mp5 vs hp5 depends on the lane opponent(s) and partner if its a 2v2 lane. In any case mp5 allows you to harass with your fireball and unload burst to threaten without being totally defenseless. hp/5 allows you to stay in lane farming but you can't really harass well. The 20 hp difference is not a big deal, and I'd say the 15 AP is useful midgame and helps your laning phase if you harass. Call it a .6 ratio but 10 damage on a tibbers/fireball/incinerate/run/fireball combo is 40 damage which can make the difference between a kill easily. The reason AP is bad is that it doesn't improve your damage as much as Mpen does. Obviously you're not going to build AD, but you want to prioritize the items that give you pen and AP over AP and another stat. Am I the only one who likes to open Sapphire on Annie? I don't play her often but sapphire for fast catalyst is great. Also flash->tibbers obviously best =/. | ||
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Iplaythings
Denmark9110 Posts
Figured that you might as well get all the mpen that you can get your hands on | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23464 Posts
I usually only go void staff if they have high mresist though. Not sure if that's smart, base resist is like 50 or sov around the time you can get it, still like 20 mpen. So i'll probably build annie for my main when i hit 30 and go ranked until i can get good at playing jax since he's hard and requires expensive runes to properly jungle. maybe ill play more with mordekaiser or get a new hero but i doubt it runes are expensive and i only go 13 levels of IP before i can start going ranked. Mastery build 9/0/21 seems non negotiable, ill build up to lvl 30 asap. Runes: Red: Mpen Yellow: HP Blue: CD reduction//Mp5//AP/lvl The reason for hp is that an extra 50 is very nice, especially if you want to go fast catalyst or something. (I'd say sapphire first sounds good if you have a good lane partner, otherwise i find the mp5 hp and ap all very necessary to get any sort of harass in) I'd originally want to go for AP/lvl since you don't want the AP that much before around lvl 5 where it equalizes with pure AP, but CDR might be good if you guys stress that AP is bad? mp5 is more like a footnote but i often find i buy mana pots to allow me to dominate lanes, should I just take a blue buff, and get mp5 runes? flash tibbers is obviously good but i try to avoid using flash because everybody keeps talking about the eventual removal into an item or something, i dunno its probably stupid, but i figure relying on it for offensive combos is the kind of thing you shouldn't do too often when you can learn to use your movement speed when you're on CD. Anybody have a spreadsheet for mpen vs AP and %mpen and how it factors in? I don't want you g uys to make it but they're usually floating around. Quints: AP or HP i guess. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23464 Posts
Cool. Happy to give up AP for hp. So like. 3x HP quint mpen mark mp5 seal AP/lvl glyphs? | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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Kaneh
Canada737 Posts
ring is terrible because you don't need mana regen. Q is cheap when harassing, and you should never miss one when last hitting. I dont' get how annie trades with any traditional solo. none of them have stuns. the ones that do are melee that you can outrange with your auto for harass. with the exception of flash pantheon. he's gay. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23464 Posts
Boots + 3 pots seems questionable, you have the longest auto attack range in the game and you generally don't need to chase people down a lot. Meanwhile, I find harassing with Q burns your mana and obviously hp is always good. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 21 2010 07:32 Slayer91 wrote: Thanks guys. I'll get whichever T3 runes are cheaper between CDR and MPen, the Oddone guide is very mathematically sound. Boots + 3 pots seems questionable, you have the longest auto attack range in the game and you generally don't need to chase people down a lot. Meanwhile, I find harassing with Q burns your mana and obviously hp is always good. CDR is twice as expensive, but bear in mind that unless you're specifically building an Annie page, flat CDR glyphs are useful on way more champions than MPen glyphs. MPen glyphs are only really good on a small subset of casters, while CDR is usable (though probably not optimal) across a broad range of champions. | ||
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Yiruru
Canada690 Posts
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On December 20 2010 08:43 Kaniol wrote: You don't get golem when Tibbers kills it either Not exactly true. If the sunfire aura from Tibbers gets the killing blow, you don't get the golem buff; but if either Annie or Tibbers' autoattack get the kill, then you do get the buff. On December 21 2010 10:45 Yiruru wrote: Just Spec 9 Defensive, Flat Armor Seals, Dorans Shield and open E to harass with imba 600 range auto, who needs Q ?? 625 range :D | ||
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