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On November 05 2010 04:19 Mogwai wrote:
ok, well let me refute this with 3 reasons why you're completely wrong:
1. if you're good, you know how to hit a tibbers. It's really not that hard.
2. the sooner you get tibbers down, the sooner he does his aura damage and attack damage. delaying it reduces your overall burst.
3. flash exists, and thus instant spells rather than delayed projectile spells are what you should be using to open up. even against 1 target, opening W over Q makes sense simply because of Flash dodging spells.
1. even if you're bad, Q will never miss. Tibbers has a X.XX% chance to miss and is therefor an inferior choice because it CAN miss.
2. seeing as you will be hitting QRW in less than one second, this is not true, his aura applies once a second.
3. flash won't exist soon, and a cautious opponent will be on the lookout for you flashing anyways, they can react to your flash no matter what you follow it up with
4. if you burn R or W and miss, your stun will not proc and you'll be left without one of your two damage spells. whereas if Q is dodged, you will still have your stun up and you can stun them afterwards
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United States2822 Posts
On November 05 2010 02:02 alffla wrote:
hi just this is so crazy LOLOL secret LoL forum! wtf.! bye!
wtf alffla are you stalking me?
Also thanks soooooo much for the input everyone. :D
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On November 05 2010 04:49 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2010 04:19 Mogwai wrote:
ok, well let me refute this with 3 reasons why you're completely wrong:
1. if you're good, you know how to hit a tibbers. It's really not that hard.
2. the sooner you get tibbers down, the sooner he does his aura damage and attack damage. delaying it reduces your overall burst.
3. flash exists, and thus instant spells rather than delayed projectile spells are what you should be using to open up. even against 1 target, opening W over Q makes sense simply because of Flash dodging spells. 1. even if you're bad, Q will never miss. Tibbers has a X.XX% chance to miss and is therefor an inferior choice because it CAN miss. 2. seeing as you will be hitting QRW in less than one second, this is not true, his aura applies once a second. 3. flash won't exist soon, and a cautious opponent will be on the lookout for you flashing anyways, they can react to your flash no matter what you follow it up with 4. if you burn R or W and miss, your stun will not proc and you'll be left without one of your two damage spells. whereas if Q is dodged, you will still have your stun up and you can stun them afterwards
1. You shouldn't try to cover up for being bad by playing towards that. I seriously see no reason why an Annie player should miss a Tibbers. Besides, you could misclick on the Q too and stun a ranged creep, yet you don't wanna try to cover that possibility.
2. what if they escape the aura range in a fraction of a second as long as the difference between your Q cast time and R cast time? It's the same argument as your "having Q off of CD argument" except that tibbers can Towerdive and is already on top of them, rather than needing to catch up over that period of time
3. Pantheon's getting HSS reworked soon too, that doesn't mean I'm not going to tell people to ignore it for the time being. You tell people what's right for the time being and then adjust it when it changes. As for flash dodging W or R, that's beyond human reaction time, they're calling your moves with that or you're really slow. By opening with R, I can play distance games and they're the ones who have to be mindful, lest I just kill them out of nowhere before they even have time to react. With Q, they can react in the realm of human reaction time to the cast animation.
4. Again, don't play around the assumption that you're going to miss. I really don't get how you're missing tibbers.
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2. what if your internet d/c's right as you hit R before you get W off? and what if rammus was powerballing towards you and cut off tibbers before he could towerdive galio and you lost the game bcoz of it?
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well in that case it's clearly Matchmaking's fault.
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On November 05 2010 04:13 gtrsrs wrote:
when you flash mid for your first kill, you should NEVER use R as your stun spell. R can not only miss, but has a hitbox that is smaller than it appears. Q will never miss (unless it's vlad!), Q will get the stun, then R directly on top of them, and W as they try to run away. ignite if necessary. another benefit of Q first is that it'll come off of cooldown faster so you can get it in quickly for a last hit on them if they survive the burst
no u do R first for maximum damage. missing tibbers stun is indicative of a bad annie player
anyone can easy flash out of a q stun, but its nearly impossible to flash away from flash tibbers, you'd have to be a really good annie player to anticipate it. same with poppys charge, you can flash out of it as it goes towards you, but its hard to do unless u can read their mind.
tibbers has a huge hitbox , wtf are you talking about?, and more importantly , bigger range than q, most of your kills will come from people underestimating the flash tibbers RANGE distance by just a little. Good players will be out of Q distance so when u flash theyre just gonna move backwards and u fail and they laughz.
if they're in flash+Q distance, why the fuck would u need flash, just drop a bear on their ass.
stop giving bad advice
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Oh also, a bad habit i learned with annie is being overly aggro on my ranged dps, playing similar to annie.
It's because her spells dont generate creep aggro, and her auto attack range is so huge, so on my ranged dps carries i would take more creep dmg than my actual autoattack/harassing ability did.
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Hahah that's what happened to this poor Trist last night. Highly amusing.
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On November 06 2010 03:37 HeavOnEarth wrote:
Oh also, a bad habit i learned with annie is being overly aggro on my ranged dps, playing similar to annie.
It's because her spells dont generate creep aggro, and her auto attack range is so huge, so on my ranged dps carries i would take more creep dmg than my actual autoattack/harassing ability did.
hahaha, yea, her zoning is like Pantheon's, so it was a really smooth transition for me :p. Thank god you finally came in here and backed me up, I was ready to give up arguing about using tibbers first.
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i dunno maybe there's something wrong with my client or something because i have literally missed tibbers's even if they were just barely outside of the dead center of the aiming reticle. for me it's ridiculous enough that i won't even attempt tibbers unless the target is already stunned (by me or ganking partner). maybe it's psychological \o/
on the other hand, in probably 70 games played as annie total, i have only twice seen someone dodge a flash-Q, one was a vlad who pooled the exact second i flashed, so i had nothing to Q (seeing as it was literally the exact same time, i can only assume this was a coincidence not godlike timing) and an ashe who was kicking the shit out of me and clearly a better player than me anyways, and i probably just telegraphed my move enough that she had her finger on the D key ready to flash out
so ~97% of the time i will land the stun and have a non-moving target to hit tibbers/firecone on, 1.5% of the time a player better than me will predict my move and dodge it, and 1.5% of the time the other player will fluke out and get lucky. i'll take those chances on a skill that *can't* miss due to user error
stop assuming everyone plays at the 2100 elo level and that everyone you lane against is grandjudge, there are players that read these guides and threads at the 1200 level too
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On November 06 2010 05:19 gtrsrs wrote:
i dunno maybe there's something wrong with my client or something because i have literally missed tibbers's even if they were just barely outside of the dead center of the aiming reticle. for me it's ridiculous enough that i won't even attempt tibbers unless the target is already stunned (by me or ganking partner). maybe it's psychological \o/
on the other hand, in probably 70 games played as annie total, i have only twice seen someone dodge a flash-Q, one was a vlad who pooled the exact second i flashed, so i had nothing to Q (seeing as it was literally the exact same time, i can only assume this was a coincidence not godlike timing) and an ashe who was kicking the shit out of me and clearly a better player than me anyways, and i probably just telegraphed my move enough that she had her finger on the D key ready to flash out
so ~97% of the time i will land the stun and have a non-moving target to hit tibbers/firecone on, 1.5% of the time a player better than me will predict my move and dodge it, and 1.5% of the time the other player will fluke out and get lucky. i'll take those chances on a skill that *can't* miss due to user error
stop assuming everyone plays at the 2100 elo level and that everyone you lane against is grandjudge, there are players that read these guides and threads at the 1200 level too
I'm not worried about grandjudge pulling that shit as much as I'm worried about Regi/DD pulling that shit. I swear those guys have negative reation time, it's ridiculous. Anyway, the reason your post drew a strong response is the wording.
On November 05 2010 04:13 gtrsrs wrote:
when you flash mid for your first kill, you should NEVER use R as your stun spell. R can not only miss, but has a hitbox that is smaller than it appears. Q will never miss (unless it's vlad!), Q will get the stun, then R directly on top of them, and W as they try to run away. ignite if necessary. another benefit of Q first is that it'll come off of cooldown faster so you can get it in quickly for a last hit on them if they survive the burst
I bolded the particularly offensive part. Here's how you could've given the same advice without just being wrong:
when looking for 1v1 kills, don't feel pressured to use R as your stun spell. good players still stun with R in these situations, but if you're uncomfortable with you ability to do so, you can just open with a Q stun until you feel comfortable with the spacing on flash -> tibbers.
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lol, but that's so demeaning to anyone who uses Q to stun, which is equally ridiculous and wrong. it's like if i told my retarded sister that she wasn't retarded, she was just mentally challenged. oh wait now i see your point mogwai
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look, this is a competitive gaming site, we strive to give people advice on how to be competitive.
by ENCOURAGING mediocre play based on the fact that it's good enough for average level play, you're doing a disservice to anyone who's listening to you by setting the bar too low. if someone is seriously picking annie up and wants to be the very best, they're just not gonna get there if they're being encouraged to make plays designed to compensate for being mediocre.
It's like advising someone to NEVER try to get a perfect split in SC because you might screw up. It's ok to tell them that in the grand scheme of things, it's a pretty marginal difference between a perfect split and a 2/2 split, but you should still acknowledge that the advice your giving is sub-optimal, and you ESPECIALLY shouldn't tell people to never do the right thing, LOL.
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tibbers is the best open , prettty sure no argument there.
with everything gtrsrs says just proves that:
Bad players teach you bad habits, that's all there is to it.
I used to open mejais on annie everygame, and swear by it. Used to gank bottom through dragon path and thought it was the easiest thing ever(97% rate ez, good play obvi).
Shit stopped working when i got higher, as do many bad habits you learn from playing bad people
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"right" is really subjective here, especially on a game that's been out for like a year and is constantly changing. maybe in 10 years after LoL has become a benchmark for balance and has a blooming professional scene with several sponsored teams, we will know for a fact that flash-R is irrefutably the best way to stun someone, but for now i'm comfortable telling people that flash-Q is just as effective, easier, and will work up to the 1400 level AT LEAST, where probably only 20% of the people who read this thread will even work
so, readers, take that with a grain of salt
(also note that brave annie players will always use Q)
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United States47024 Posts
For what it's worth, I'm a level 28 baddie, and in all the times I've played Annie, I can only remember ever whiffing Tibbers like 2-3 times. I've been Q-stun dodged WAY more times than I've screwed up Tibbers, and my opponents and I are all terrible.
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On November 06 2010 05:45 HeavOnEarth wrote:
Brave players teach you brave habits, that's all there is to it.
couldn't have said it better myself, friend!
how about this, i will compromise my stance:
a solo mid generally picks 2 of the following summoner spells - ghost, flash, ignite, exhaust, teleport. so check your opponents summoner spells before you attempt to kill them (which you should do anwyays... as ganking a mid who has flash is tough regardless of who you are). if they have flash (40% of the time?), and they have not burned it already, R might be a better option for you. if they don't have flash OR when flash is removed from the game (in the next patch? in the next year? i'm p sure riot has been saying they were going to remove/rework flash for the last few months), Q will never miss, and then you can thank me for getting you started in the right track of opening with a spell that will always hit, rather than one you can whiff
User was temp banned for this post.
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On November 06 2010 05:48 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2010 05:45 HeavOnEarth wrote:
Brave players teach you brave habits, that's all there is to it. couldn't have said it better myself, friend!
brave players level their molten shield and go DPS Annie. You should probably reevaluate your bravery if you think that Q stunning is brave.
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i'm 1-0 with triforce+BR annie \o/
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if they dont have flash how is tibbers gonna miss?
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EPT
