EPT[Champion] Annie - Page 3
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
im done with this silly discussion - you already admitted flash q was bad. So i dont honestly care. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 06 2010 05:58 gtrsrs wrote: last time i checked, tibbers was a skill shot, not an auto-target spell. however small, there is still a chance you will miss a skill shot, just like Dirk Nowitski only makes ~93% of his freethrows, despite the distance never changing, the hoop never moving, and having one of the sweetest strokes in the NBA. on the other hand, every single time dirk nowitski drops a basketball, it will hit the floor Calling an instant, targeted AoE a skillshot is really stretching the term. | ||
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Kaneh
Canada737 Posts
lose to anivia and noone else | ||
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b3h47pte
United States1317 Posts
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
Is this a bug? Or is this true for all pets, ie Morde? | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
Masteries: Greed > 1 point in pers. Not better than 3, but for 1 point it gives you more returns if you are running Ignite. Ignite is great if your enemy team has a Mundo/Taric/Sona/Soraka or any other hero that relies on healing in teamfights, but otherwise Ghost is usually the better option. Runes: Blues should be AP. Annie doesn't really need MP5 as you're either blowing your load all at once or last hitting with Q, and you should have time to naturally regen mana with Doran's Ring between bursts early. You shouldn't be too aggressive until lvl 3 or so anyway. Skill order: W > Q. I'm sorry, there's no argument here. If you're any good at last hitting, you can do it with a lvl 1 Q all game (not that you should). QWWQWRWEWQRQQEEREE should be the skill order. You need the extra damage on W for your lvl 6 burst and to remain viable in the midgame. Q should only be used to last hit minions to charge up, land a long range stun while R is down (or you don't have mana for a full burst), and as a part of your burst combo (Best is R/Q/W/Q). Item build: Ring always, never shield, never EVER shield. Not even if you're soloing against a ranged dps, you will be fine with the ring. Boots should almost always be Mercs or Tabi depending on if they have a Yi/Trynd/other ridiculous melee burst, or if they have lots of disables/AP, Annie needs as much survivability as possible so Sorcs are ill-advised unless you have a very good CC team that can peel off you in teamfights (Read: Amumu/Galio/Rammus/etc). Catalyst should be next into a RoA or Banshees depending on the game flow (some of my best games I've gotten no other AP items until lvl 16). Haunting guise is only advisable if you have an AP heavy team and they stack MR early or have a MR tank like Galio. Otherwise Catalyst -> RoA/Banshees -> Zhonya's is almost always the best. Mejais can be awesome, but odds are people at higher ELOs know and fear Annie's burst so you're less likely to get tons and tons of easy kills. Playstyle: Some things to include: Ask your jungler to give you the 2nd Blue buff. By that point he should have razors and not really need the mana to jungle (some exceptions, but mostly true). With that, you can utterly dominate your lane early. You're absurdly frail early game, so be especially careful about jungler ganks, especially when you're a solo lane. Never, ever lane against MF. I can never win that lane, between having to dodge Double Up and her poking with Rain + 2-3 auto attacks, you won't be able to burst her down with the early dblade and she can poke you forever and a day. Just get a switch if you see her. Your best contribution to a teamfight late game will be your stun. With ultra tankish item builds coming out of higher ELO players, the amount of Health/MR will be too high for you to burst down anyone or even do a huge amount of damage in teamfights. Tibberstun just after a Galio/Amumu ult can nullify it and put your team back on even footing, or set up an excellent gank, especially from bushes. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 09 2010 08:35 deth2munkies wrote: Masteries: Greed > 1 point in pers. Not better than 3, but for 1 point it gives you more returns if you are running Ignite. Ignite is great if your enemy team has a Mundo/Taric/Sona/Soraka or any other hero that relies on healing in teamfights, but otherwise Ghost is usually the better option. They're not interchangeable, because if you're not running Ghost, you have to take 1 point in Perseverance to finish tier 1 utility masteries. On November 09 2010 08:35 deth2munkies wrote: Skill order: W > Q. I'm sorry, there's no argument here. If you're any good at last hitting, you can do it with a lvl 1 Q all game (not that you should). QWWQWRWEWQRQQEEREE should be the skill order. You need the extra damage on W for your lvl 6 burst and to remain viable in the midgame. Q should only be used to last hit minions to charge up, land a long range stun while R is down (or you don't have mana for a full burst), and as a part of your burst combo (Best is R/Q/W/Q). Personally, I think this is a playstyle thing. I use Q a lot in lane pre-6 to poke, even when my stun isn't up (seeing as you're not exactly going to spend your mana amazingly quickly), so I level Q till I'm 6, and the possibility of leaving the lane for a gank/jungle fight becomes more likely. QWQWQRWWWERQQEEREE. At level 8, it becomes equivalent to having leveled W over Q, with a slightly smaller burst at 6-7, but with stronger harassment in lane (which might land you kills/just as much of an advantage anyway, because they'll get lower from your harassment). IMO it's a reasonable tradeoff, but I'll admit I could be wrong. On November 09 2010 08:35 deth2munkies wrote: Item build: Ring always, never shield, never EVER shield. I'm curious behind the reasoning behind never going shield. It seems that Annie doesn't benefit enough from the Ring mp5 during laning for it to be a huge factor. | ||
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Kaneh
Canada737 Posts
you literally cannot lose a lane to anything other than anivia. get pots. get pots. get pots. pots win you the lane early on. doran's ring does shit for that. doran's anything is for people who want to farm or just survive. not for annie. annie doesn't lose in a burst fight. why the hell would you try to buff a part of her that already never loses. if you aren't playing near-suicidally aggressive as annie, then you aren't playing her right. buying shit that lets you lane well past lvl 6 is stupid. -mr is king of early game nuking, so there is no reason to skip it. same reason Q > W. W is great for teamfights. Q is much better early lane and for ganks. you can fire off 2 Q during a gank, meaning you can actually kill that garen or whoever with 800+ hp. also, Q can poke people who hug thier tower. W cannot. absurdly frail. lol. who are you going to lose to in a fight? why are you being careful of jungle ganks? why are you even in lane at that point? | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On November 09 2010 09:31 Kaneh wrote: MF? stand off the the side and use auto to harass. abuse her goddam auto attack range. you literally cannot lose a lane to anything other than anivia. get pots. get pots. get pots. pots win you the lane early on. doran's ring does shit for that. doran's anything is for people who want to farm or just survive. not for annie. annie doesn't lose in a burst fight. why the hell would you try to buff a part of her that already never loses. if you aren't playing near-suicidally aggressive as annie, then you aren't playing her right. buying shit that lets you lane well past lvl 6 is stupid. -mr is king of early game nuking, so there is no reason to skip it. same reason Q > W. W is great for teamfights. Q is much better early lane and for ganks. you can fire off 2 Q during a gank, meaning you can actually kill that garen or whoever with 800+ hp. also, Q can poke people who hug thier tower. W cannot. absurdly frail. lol. who are you going to lose to in a fight? why are you being careful of jungle ganks? why are you even in lane at that point? OMG I'M IN A LANE AT LVL 4 I'M SO BAD. 1) MF will simply respond to auto attacks with a rain + auto attacks. You can't move towards her without being stuck in the slow, so you can only hit Q, and you can't run without eating hits that hurt a lot more than your autos. If you don't have stun up even for a second she'll rape you, so you're forced to hold your Q last hit, so you CAN'T auto attack harass without giving up last hits thanks to your abysmally shitty animation. Just don't go there. 2) You've obviously never played her above 1400. Carries usually have MR runes, buy Mercs, and occasionally another Mres items, and a good amount of tanks will rush Negatrons against a team with an Annie. You are not the king (or queen) of burst at any time other than at lvl 6-11. You also don't have the burst to finish off people without ignite until level 5 or so, which gives you a damn limited window. An Annie who stays alive, puts out damage, and stuns at the right time is what you want, not someone who runs up, blows their load to get 1 guy down to 1% health then dies. 3) -Mres is nice, but catalyst is not for laning, but looking towards the lategame. If you're getting insanely farmed, knock yourself out, but if they're any kind of competent, you're not. If you're 4-0 on your first b, then get mejais/guise/zhonya's/void and go around 3 shotting people. Odds are you won't, and you'll want a more defensive item build. All in all, though, Haunting Guise is not a bad choice, I'd just say Catalyst is better. | ||
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
her strut allows her to dodge ur q stun whenever u go for it, except u can simply autoattack to knock her passive off because of your huge range on autoattacks. when you q stun +w u can simply back off. theres nothing she can do about it also its easy to autoattack harass and last hit, unless you're new to annie, in which case i'd work on getting that down. -sorc boots are awesome +blues are mp5 not ap/lvl Annie has like .6 ap ratios on q + w, not that spectacular, hence why ap/lvl is nonideal and mpen on sorc boots is best i don't like catalyst on annie but i guess it isn't horrible, if you really need that laning presence then go for it, but i view them as a crutch for beginner annie players( i used catalyst a lot when i started playing) Also with the Q>W thing, most people take flash, so you won't be able to get another Q off. Its rare to be able to Q harass in pre- initiated teamfights without being chain stunned and simply picked off before u can cast ur ult W also one shots caster minions and rank 5 + a little ap. | ||
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Tyrran
France777 Posts
Without boots, it's nearly impossible to dodge the bombs, so whenever i try to be agressive, i'll take more dmg than i will damage him as he can spam them so fast. If i try to just defend, then i cannot prevent him from farming :s. Not to mention the threat of his ulti as soon as he hit lvl6 :/ He isnt listed as one of the 'dangerous' early game heroes in the OP, so i guess i'm missing something ( maybe just skill :p ). Any tips when laning against him ? I usually open Doran's Ring for the HPs and increased Regen ( I still lack some runes) and follow up with HG or Catalyst depending on how i am doing. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
On November 09 2010 20:16 Tyrran wrote: Without boots, it's nearly impossible to dodge the bombs Problem solved, open boots + 3 pots. [edit] Actually... thinking about it in a larger context the mp5 might be more important even if you are good at last hitting with q. [/edit] | ||
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
On November 09 2010 20:16 Tyrran wrote: I'm kinda new to this game ( lvl 23), but I've been playing Annie quite a lot, i i found that when soloing a lane, i just cannot beat karthus. Without boots, it's nearly impossible to dodge the bombs, so whenever i try to be agressive, i'll take more dmg than i will damage him as he can spam them so fast. If i try to just defend, then i cannot prevent him from farming :s. Not to mention the threat of his ulti as soon as he hit lvl6 :/ He isnt listed as one of the 'dangerous' early game heroes in the OP, so i guess i'm missing something ( maybe just skill :p ). Any tips when laning against him ? I usually open Doran's Ring for the HPs and increased Regen ( I still lack some runes) and follow up with HG or Catalyst depending on how i am doing. it is possible to dodge karthus skillshots without boots on annie. try harder | ||
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Kaneh
Canada737 Posts
On November 09 2010 11:34 deth2munkies wrote: OMG I'M IN A LANE AT LVL 4 I'M SO BAD. 1) MF will simply respond to auto attacks with a rain + auto attacks. You can't move towards her without being stuck in the slow, so you can only hit Q, and you can't run without eating hits that hurt a lot more than your autos. If you don't have stun up even for a second she'll rape you, so you're forced to hold your Q last hit, so you CAN'T auto attack harass without giving up last hits thanks to your abysmally shitty animation. Just don't go there. 2) You've obviously never played her above 1400. Carries usually have MR runes, buy Mercs, and occasionally another Mres items, and a good amount of tanks will rush Negatrons against a team with an Annie. You are not the king (or queen) of burst at any time other than at lvl 6-11. You also don't have the burst to finish off people without ignite until level 5 or so, which gives you a damn limited window. An Annie who stays alive, puts out damage, and stuns at the right time is what you want, not someone who runs up, blows their load to get 1 guy down to 1% health then dies. 3) -Mres is nice, but catalyst is not for laning, but looking towards the lategame. If you're getting insanely farmed, knock yourself out, but if they're any kind of competent, you're not. If you're 4-0 on your first b, then get mejais/guise/zhonya's/void and go around 3 shotting people. Odds are you won't, and you'll want a more defensive item build. All in all, though, Haunting Guise is not a bad choice, I'd just say Catalyst is better. MF can't respond. she has less range. much less. i dont' think you know how to abuse annie's auto range. MF can't trade a double up for a Q+W (stun). if you actually buy pots like a good annie, she ends up even further behind. Annie's auto animation can be canceled about halfway through. try it sometime. Annie doesn't have the burst to kill someone from 100%-0, no. annie however can kill people from ~400 at lvl 3 if you get 2 Q off. THAT is her power. You are suggesting that all she does is stun and output mediocre damage. I am trying to show you that annie's Q is a rediculously short CD strong nuke, that when combined with her rediculous range on auto, makes her a crazy powerhouse in lane and for most of the early and mid game. 3) You're suggesting that you should build a nuker for the end game. I think most people already know that nukers get progressively worse the longer the game goes. why would you build like that. (hence why i like ignite/flash as well) If you know how to dive towers to get kills and flash out to not die, then you will get kills, or get towers. Both will put you ahead. Catalyst does what for you? make you slightly less worse end game? why not straight zhonya? it's better survivability and actually makes you more threatening for the early-mid game. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On November 11 2010 09:36 Kaneh wrote: MF can't respond. she has less range. much less. i dont' think you know how to abuse annie's auto range. MF can't trade a double up for a Q+W (stun). if you actually buy pots like a good annie, she ends up even further behind. Annie's auto animation can be canceled about halfway through. try it sometime. Annie doesn't have the burst to kill someone from 100%-0, no. annie however can kill people from ~400 at lvl 3 if you get 2 Q off. THAT is her power. You are suggesting that all she does is stun and output mediocre damage. I am trying to show you that annie's Q is a rediculously short CD strong nuke, that when combined with her rediculous range on auto, makes her a crazy powerhouse in lane and for most of the early and mid game. 3) You're suggesting that you should build a nuker for the end game. I think most people already know that nukers get progressively worse the longer the game goes. why would you build like that. (hence why i like ignite/flash as well) If you know how to dive towers to get kills and flash out to not die, then you will get kills, or get towers. Both will put you ahead. Catalyst does what for you? make you slightly less worse end game? why not straight zhonya? it's better survivability and actually makes you more threatening for the early-mid game. 1) She does 2-3x as much damage as your auto attack. Double up prevents you from positioning ideally, and with Make it Rain, she can slow you and trade rain + 3 auto attacks for a Q and an autoattack, which is more than fair considering she has lifesteal. She does this at level 1, and can keep you either zoned or force you to bluepill before you can get enough burst to make her pay for it. 2) I guess I can see the point of QWQ, but you should still max W first, especially when you start ganking and especially for the duo lane. 3) No, I'm building her to not die in half a second in the endgame. Zhonya's is great, if you're getting a huge income stream from riding the early burst (which usually happens but not always) you can fit it in after catalyst. Else, you can't really fit it in anywhere because grinding to 1600 for the NLR will take too long and you'll end up gimped. Her income stream slows way, way down around the late-midgame, and if you don't have the NLR by then, you can't afford it. If you're raping, grab mejai's and Zhonya's, if not, go the defensive item build and be a stunbot, because that's where you'll truly shine. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On top of which, I have never seen Salce/TheOddOne/any other notable Annie player start DRing on Annie. It's always DShield. | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
On December 20 2010 07:19 TheYango wrote: So I'm curious what situation you'd actually want to start DRing on Annie? It just feels so midrangy on her, considering that if you don't miss Qs for last-hitting, you never have mana problems in lane, and the AP just seems so mediocre. If you need the laning help, DShield just seems to do more for you, and if you don't Sapph Crystal speeding up your midgame items seems better. On top of which, I have never seen Salce/TheOddOne/any other notable Annie player start DRing on Annie. It's always DShield. dshield is better for early exchanges (lvl 1 teamfights, early laning) because the hp/5 and armor will allow you to come off exchanges with q->w-> auto as necessary or allowed on the higher side, and will allow you to eat an autoattack or two while charging your q without getting wrecked by autoattack punishment missing your qs will hurt this opening but i think dshield is more solid on most casters that rely on a poke-y or bursty exchange that don't have natural damage mitigation | ||
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