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On October 27 2015 17:20 adwodon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2015 07:07 Energizer wrote:
Th-Th-Th-Th-Thats all folks!
Dont expect changes after release, what we see now is what LoTV will be. Kinda disappointing actually. Where are you getting that from? The game will continue to receive balance updates post release, it may not receive massive changes although I swear I read that Blizz said they would consider economy changes post release once the dust has settled. There are some balance changes you just can't forsee until you're a few tournaments deep and even then things keep shifting. Personally I'm fine with things, there are problems but there always will be, pretty sure people were saying the exact same things about HotS and that ended up in a really nice place eventually. You could have the game in a constant state of flux but at the end of the day they are a business with a release schedule. This beta has been great for communication and I hope they are like this with any future strategy games they work on after SC2 and that they've learnt a lot from what has been a really great game. I'm really looking forward to watching LotV tournaments now 
My disappointment comes from their "economy" change, which was really just a minor map change. In BW this was done by the community because they had more power over the maps that were being played. Something that Blizzard took away from us in SC2. I can barely consider this economy change something noteworthy coming from Blizzard. They had the power to make some real changes to the way the economy worked (either through a worker-efficiency change or one of the many other ways presented here on TL), but they opted to go for the easy way out and make a minor map edit.
That said, the units that are being added are OK and I'm glad to see that they've managed to do away with "Blizzard seconds" (one of the most ridiculous things ever, no matter the excuses regarding the engine and whatnot).
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I'm sure that the single player campaign and the new modes will all be well designed and fun. Balance of the multiplayer right now is hard to judge until all the really good Korean pros start playing the game.
I'm not happy with balance but I'm optimistic that once we have more pros playing Blizzard will be able to do a better job with it.
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Yeah, so the game's gonna come out with the parasitic bomb, pylon PO, cyclones and liberators as they are, and sieged tank drop. At this point I'm asking myself if I'm gonna buy the game for the story or not at all.
Especially love the fact they thank the community for the "awesome feedback", while it's pretty obvious they smokescreened the whole "we're gonna try a lot of new things for LOTV beta to solve SC2 design flaws".
Oh and by the way, the fact they release the game after such short notice seems to indicate that the low player population on LOTV made Blizzard feel like the game is dead, and that they're better off releasing LOTV quickly before everybody drops playing.
Just compare the upcoming LOTV hype to the HOTS release hype, and you'll see what's the state of the game. Pretty sure Day9 won't even make a video about it since he dropped SC2 a long time ago.
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On October 27 2015 23:08 JackONeill wrote:
Yeah, so the game's gonna come out with the parasitic bomb, pylon PO, cyclones and liberators as they are, and sieged tank drop. At this point I'm asking myself if I'm gonna buy the game for the story or not at all.
Especially love the fact they thank the community for the "awesome feedback", while it's pretty obvious they smokescreened the whole "we're gonna try a lot of new things for LOTV beta to solve SC2 design flaws".
Oh and by the way, the fact they release the game after such short notice seems to indicate that the low player population on LOTV made Blizzard feel like the game is dead, and that they're better off releasing LOTV quickly before everybody drops playing.
Just compare the upcoming LOTV hype to the HOTS release hype, and you'll see what's the state of the game. Pretty sure Day9 won't even make a video about it since he dropped SC2 a long time ago.
The hype for HotS was there because of WoL. The missing hype for LotV is ...not there... because of HotS.
We have two completely different contexts. WoL<->HotS transition happened when SC2 was still near it's prime. Right now people make fun of LotV with "ded gaem" jokes even before the release due to the state of Hots. That + other "dank memes" as well as major competition in the eSports department make for a tough release situation.
And of course Day9 is not going to cover a ton of LotV. He's working on a direct competitor.
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I am personally going to have a hard time going back to HotS now that I've become enamoured with LotV. The game really is a lot of fun.
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On October 27 2015 20:46 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2015 19:31 -Archangel- wrote:On October 27 2015 07:07 Energizer wrote:
Th-Th-Th-Th-Thats all folks!
Dont expect changes after release, what we see now is what LoTV will be. Kinda disappointing actually. Yes, time to switch to other RTS. If only Generals 2 was not canceled. Still showing lies to push AoA? The only sure thing is some patching after release lol, exactly the contrary of what you're saying.
Lies? Where did I lie?
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I just hope Blizzard will actually change big things after release. I dislike the current state of LOTV and if this is the version we will have to play (well mostly follow tbh) then i am not sure how much fun that will be :/
But it's too soon to tell, as soon as proleague starts (and gsl/ssl) we will see how exciting the gameplay really is / can be.
Cmon Kespa koreans, you can make it enjoyable with any version of starcraft!
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Oh, man ... I was enjoying the beta so much. I wonder when I should uninstall?
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you can't complete the balance of the game without seeing months of pro level play, so they have to release it. complaints that it's premature are just a reflection of this community never ever being satisfied or happy, we're mostly a very negative and vindictive bunch
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On October 28 2015 05:10 brickrd wrote:
you can't complete the balance of the game without seeing months of pro level play, so they have to release it. complaints that it's premature are just a reflection of this community never ever being satisfied or happy, we're mostly a very negative and vindictive bunch
And that's the reason why we don't get good, varied gameplay. "We need to confirm for 22months straight that Mech TvP isn't viable, before we consider changing it!"
22months later: "We won't change balance now, pros will complain if we do too many balance changes. The game is what it is!"
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I just hope they release the campaign now...
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On October 27 2015 09:23 Big J wrote:
Makes me sad for the future of this game, although it was a given with the release coming up.
Yep, that's pretty much my feelings as well.
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On October 28 2015 05:10 brickrd wrote:
you can't complete the balance of the game without seeing months of pro level play, so they have to release it.
I think this is myth. Lots of games are very well balanced without ever having a pro scene. Pro scene observation helps you make the small tweaks, the fine tuning, the ultimate polish. Pro level playing tends to worsen or break balance because the very high skills may produce unexpectedly high results with certain mechanics that others can't play optimally. So such mechanics are a little stronger with them and become comparatively stronger than other things in the game that can't be improved so much by skill, and to compensate you alter these mechanics or change balance values for things that weren't broken at non pro level. But you can't expect the pro scene to somehow reveal the natural balance of the game as it should be. Also, it is very important I think to realize that most good things in a RTS, and that includes balance, originate in intended design. You can't just throw a bunch of stuff/units into a RTS and go "well that looks kinda cool, let's watch the pros play with it, tweak it around a bit and then we'll probably have a good game!".
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Not buying the expansion and probably taking a long break after Blizzcon.
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Already bought the expansion and will play the shit out of it after Blizzcon.
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On October 28 2015 05:42 ProMeTheus112 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2015 05:10 brickrd wrote:
you can't complete the balance of the game without seeing months of pro level play, so they have to release it. I think this is myth. Lots of games are very well balanced without ever having a pro scene. Pro scene observation helps you make the small tweaks, the fine tuning, the ultimate polish. Pro level playing tends to worsen or break balance because the very high skills may produce unexpectedly high results with certain mechanics that others can't play optimally. So such mechanics are a little stronger with them and become comparatively stronger than other things in the game that can't be improved so much by skill, and to compensate you alter these mechanics or change balance values for things that weren't broken at non pro level. But you can't expect the pro scene to somehow reveal the natural balance of the game as it should be. Also, it is very important I think to realize that most good things in a RTS, and that includes balance, originate in intended design. You can't just throw a bunch of stuff/units into a RTS and go "well that looks kinda cool, let's watch the pros play with it, tweak it around a bit and then we'll probably have a good game!".
We've been through a lot of hilarious moments when various builds, units or strategies seemed either very weak or very strong. People used to think (pre-nerf) SH were worthless, for example.
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Looking forward to the release and cant wait to see skt vs Jinair showing off their new styles in the first pro league season. HYPE
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Why can't they just tell us the date it closes... 
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"Legacy of the Void is a Well Marketed Safe Exit Strategy"
-FilterSC
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On October 27 2015 17:30 xtorn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2015 07:07 Energizer wrote:
Th-Th-Th-Th-Thats all folks!
Dont expect changes after release, what we see now is what LoTV will be. Kinda disappointing actually. Have you actually read the previous updates where they said EXACTLY THAT, that they will keep improving the game and will also do big changes after releasing it?
Have you read their exact same statements the released at the end of WoL beta and HOTS beta?
Have you forgotten how long it took them to patch the archon toilet?
Sorry, but I have no faith in this post-lotv game. There is nothing in blizzards history pointing to extensive changes.
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EPT
