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On October 29 2015 20:43 drifter420 wrote:
sorry but thats complete bullshhhhhh. making the game that fast, lotv is, it isnt accessible or fun for beginners or low level players at all. feeling constantly stressed by the mass of tasks makes the unappealing or even unplayable for them. blizzard should have made this game more accessible for beginners but they made more appealing to best of the best. and strategy wise all i see is one harass strat which leads into another harass strat, which may ends the game. its about who can kill more works of his opponent...
as a gold player i enjoyed wol and hots but lotv, holy f, there is nothing i can enjoy. its complete stress, from the first second. i feel like blizzard is telling us causuals, noobs are not welcome. but hey thats ok, i find another game to enjoy.
Yeah, it's true. It gonna be a game for elite players. I am gold player too, and I had some bad times to deal with LOTV at the beginning. I think you need to have a "big APM" to be efficient, and to focus on details to avoid to die on an early timing push or harass. All those things are natural for good players but not for the beginner, and I think they will stop to play LOTV way before to become a good one.
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On October 29 2015 20:43 drifter420 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2015 07:26 KeksX wrote:On October 29 2015 05:52 MrFreeman wrote:On October 29 2015 05:46 sabas123 wrote:On October 29 2015 05:29 Blargh wrote:
My biggest concern is actually just that there is not enough strategic depth in the game. Based on what? Actually, I agree with Blargh completely. Game is just so much faster, more energetic. All my planning goes into next few seconds, because in those seconds so much happens, that all my plans would be shattered anyway. When I can easily just win based on my opponent reacting one second to late, I´m not even happy with the win. I think that people who play a lot, especially if they are good, will eventually be able to read different situations and base their strategies of off that, but for casual people who can only play a few games a week, it would always be just messy and stressful experience. That was always and will always be the case with starcraft, though. The decision making happens largely in your replay analysis, and in the game you just apply your knowledge and judge based on your experience. Starcraft was never a game where you could sit back and think "Hmmm, what am I going to do next?". Players that do that are usually very low level and stop doing this once they've gathered more experience. And then it's all natural. This does not mean it's not a strategic game. In fact it makes it makes good strategies all the more important since the best ones are those who are either so powerful that they don't have to adapt, or so flexible that they're able to adapt to nearly every possible reaction from the opponent. sorry but thats complete bullshhhhhh. making the game that fast, lotv is, it isnt accessible or fun for beginners or low level players at all. feeling constantly stressed by the mass of tasks makes the unappealing or even unplayable for them. blizzard should have made this game more accessible for beginners but they made more appealing to best of the best. and strategy wise all i see is one harass strat which leads into another harass strat, which may ends the game. its about who can kill more works of his opponent... as a gold player i enjoyed wol and hots but lotv, holy f, there is nothing i can enjoy. its complete stress, from the first second. i feel like blizzard is telling us causuals, noobs are not welcome. but hey thats ok, i find another game to enjoy.
You're so full of shit.Farewell then.One less whiner is always good.Dude, how can you say that LotV it's a complete stress.If this is the case you have issues.You must be playing only to win.I bet you're a rage quitter. Back to LoL with you.
Too bad you didn't actually learn how to really enjoy the game and have FUN! Congratz to the one guy/girl who came up with the idea for "Uninstall" button.
User was warned for this post
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On October 29 2015 23:14 FromtheAbysS wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2015 20:43 drifter420 wrote:
sorry but thats complete bullshhhhhh. making the game that fast, lotv is, it isnt accessible or fun for beginners or low level players at all. feeling constantly stressed by the mass of tasks makes the unappealing or even unplayable for them. blizzard should have made this game more accessible for beginners but they made more appealing to best of the best. and strategy wise all i see is one harass strat which leads into another harass strat, which may ends the game. its about who can kill more works of his opponent...
as a gold player i enjoyed wol and hots but lotv, holy f, there is nothing i can enjoy. its complete stress, from the first second. i feel like blizzard is telling us causuals, noobs are not welcome. but hey thats ok, i find another game to enjoy. Yeah, it's true. It gonna be a game for elite players. I am gold player too, and I had some bad times to deal with LOTV at the beginning. I think you need to have a "big APM" to be efficient, and to focus on details to avoid to die on an early timing push or harass. All those things are natural for good players but not for the beginner, and I think they will stop to play LOTV way before to become a good one.
Do you think that Archon Mode is a good solution to this problem, or would you say the problem should be solved at the core?
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On October 29 2015 23:14 FromtheAbysS wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2015 20:43 drifter420 wrote:
sorry but thats complete bullshhhhhh. making the game that fast, lotv is, it isnt accessible or fun for beginners or low level players at all. feeling constantly stressed by the mass of tasks makes the unappealing or even unplayable for them. blizzard should have made this game more accessible for beginners but they made more appealing to best of the best. and strategy wise all i see is one harass strat which leads into another harass strat, which may ends the game. its about who can kill more works of his opponent...
as a gold player i enjoyed wol and hots but lotv, holy f, there is nothing i can enjoy. its complete stress, from the first second. i feel like blizzard is telling us causuals, noobs are not welcome. but hey thats ok, i find another game to enjoy. Yeah, it's true. It gonna be a game for elite players. I am gold player too, and I had some bad times to deal with LOTV at the beginning. I think you need to have a "big APM" to be efficient, and to focus on details to avoid to die on an early timing push or harass. All those things are natural for good players but not for the beginner, and I think they will stop to play LOTV way before to become a good one.
big APM...do you think that haveing 200 APM makes u enjoy the game more, or that you're better and not die to early cheese?. APM is not important for beginners.What important is to spend those minerals.Just spend it first, after that you'll learn how to spend it wisely, then you'll find out you can expand , and then spend some more, then you die to some fucking cheese,...what do you do then?.....Repeat the process but you'll try to anticipate any cheese and you scout and so , step bu step, you're LEARNING the game and the FUN factor comes into place.Then you can't stop playing ! This is Starcraft! This is the feeling that most of us have when we are playing starcraft! FUN!!! and of course COMPETITION on ladder is the cherry on top. GL HF!!
Beginners should just have fun first with the campaign.It will teach you the basics and more.If you're a beginner you cannot hit the ladder instantly as you will get crushed.Losing 5-6 games in a row and absolutely get stomped is not FUN.
It's a real time strategy game and it takes time to learn how to play it.It's not a MOBA- 1 click+ 4 buttons gameplay.
HAVE FUN!!! this is all that matters!!
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On October 29 2015 22:46 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2015 22:34 ProMeTheus112 wrote:
But not in BW, KeksX. You said "Starcraft", like Dustin Browder used to do talking about SC2 I believe. It is not a common point between the two games, so you can't call that characteristic of it "Starcraft". Starcraft is a strategy game and you don't just do decision making in replay analysis no no no. That is because of the volatility of SC2 indeed like it has been pointed out. Can't plan a lot of things, mostly you have to go for harrass aggression and defense, reactively, because you can't rely what you have will endure but you can rely harassing will create opportunities for terrible terrible damage. I would dare say, in a way essentially SC2 is pretty random haha (more so with LotV it seems... I don't remember that WoL was this messy with fast AoE everywhere all the time... lol) It's the lack of positional advantage you are talking about. I don't agree that's related to speed of the game or harass. You can easily have strong defensive tools that allow you to hold a position cost efficiently while having fast-moving harass units at the same time.
Ok yeah I would argue it is both but I don't know all that well cause I have only played a bit of WoL. Volatility I think is something that, if its scale is too big in the game, it breaks planning a lot so it breaks strategic thinking in game. And I think from what I have seen, WoL is less volatile than LotV even if it is still quite a lot (banelings, fungal growth, colossus, storm, vortex, seeker missile, ghost EMP, are very fast AoE which you are constantly struggling to prevent from decimating your army, and a lot of the game is about trying to avoid this damage to the second. It has to do with positional advantage also indeed).
On October 29 2015 23:12 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2015 22:34 ProMeTheus112 wrote:
But not in BW, KeksX. [snip to make post smaller] I'd argue you do more decision making in replay analysis than in the real game. Decision making is a calculation of risk vs reward, "what has the highest chance of a positive outcome for me?" etc. All those things take time and knowledge(in the sense that you need to know what your opponent is doing), both if which are either not there(time is money in SC2) or uncomplete(scouting does not always give you 100% info). So you have to rely on your experience from past games which you only get by analysing (your own) replays. Remember that decision making is not only "well I get a roach warren and then build roach in response to his mech". It can be as small as reading your opponent's current plan by seeing 3 marines in front of his natural and counting the number of drones you can make before building units. You don't analyse stuff like the thoroughly in a game, you do it beforehand so your reaction/response happens immediately in a future game. And the more analysis you do, the more experience you get, the more comfortable you feel playing. All of these things make the game less stressing, so naturally a "new game" is just all the more stressing especially if it feels more fast-paced at the same time. This has been my experience in all of the past Starcraft versions. Stress -> Analysis / Experience -> Comfort. I acknowledge that LotV brought in some plays that are more stressing, but given time these will either be figured out(giving knowledge/experience and thus ocmfort) or Blizzard might patch them out if the majority of players has a problem with this. Hider already made a valid point about this: positional play. The Lurker for example gave me ( as a zerg user ) the option to be much more safe in certain scenarios while I can focus on other things.
It is true, given the real time nature of RTS, that it is needed to construct a lot of your strategic tools through replay analysis, though this is true of Chess as well where you study openings and even calculate end game scenarios. There is a lot less time in a RTS to analyse stuff in game so you must rely on various pre-made answers to certain things that you see. But there is still a lot of room, in game, for strategic decision making, which players in bw use in different amounts. Even at pro level, some players, like Reach or Iloveoov, would base their play on a very solid standard game. Others would do a lot more improvisation and unexpected things, like Boxer, and not only in the early game, things he couldn't have planned to do in that game before the opportunity came up. And often, completely unique, not done the same way in another game again. In Korea, at one point we heard they were referring to skill broken down not only in micro and macro, but also game running. Some players are more micro focused, more macro focused, more game running focused. Of course everyone does a bit of everything but you can create your style emphasizing on some things. I remember the commentators on games sometimes drawing lines on the map after a game to describe what happened, what the player did on a large scale. Personally, I expect this quality from a great RTS, I love micro and macro but I love to have this going on all the time as well, and indeed when I play bw I try to play each game differently, adapting and making strategic decisions based on what happens and what I see. There is lots of room for this, in bw, for what has been simply called creativity also. But, I have not so much experience of SC2, so I don't want to say there is none of that in it. It just seems to me, mostly because of the sheer volatility and lesser positional play (but I think also because of the general design of the races, tech tree costs units etc, design/balance), there is a lot less room for that. It is the main reason why I have not kept playing it.
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On October 29 2015 23:12 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2015 22:34 ProMeTheus112 wrote:
But not in BW, KeksX. [snip to make post smaller] I'd argue you do more decision making in replay analysis than in the real game. Decision making is a calculation of risk vs reward, "what has the highest chance of a positive outcome for me?" etc. All those things take time and knowledge(in the sense that you need to know what your opponent is doing), both if which are either not there(time is money in SC2) or uncomplete(scouting does not always give you 100% info). So you have to rely on your experience from past games which you only get by analysing (your own) replays. Remember that decision making is not only "well I get a roach warren and then build roach in response to his mech". It can be as small as reading your opponent's current plan by seeing 3 marines in front of his natural and counting the number of drones you can make before building units. You don't analyse stuff like the thoroughly in a game, you do it beforehand so your reaction/response happens immediately in a future game. And the more analysis you do, the more experience you get, the more comfortable you feel playing. All of these things make the game less stressing, so naturally a "new game" is just all the more stressing especially if it feels more fast-paced at the same time. This has been my experience in all of the past Starcraft versions. Stress -> Analysis / Experience -> Comfort. I acknowledge that LotV brought in some plays that are more stressing, but given time these will either be figured out(giving knowledge/experience and thus ocmfort) or Blizzard might patch them out if the majority of players has a problem with this. Hider already made a valid point about this: positional play. The Lurker for example gave me ( as a zerg user ) the option to be much more safe in certain scenarios while I can focus on other things. Show nested quote +On October 29 2015 22:51 MrFreeman wrote:On October 29 2015 21:08 KeksX wrote:On October 29 2015 20:43 drifter420 wrote:On October 29 2015 07:26 KeksX wrote:On October 29 2015 05:52 MrFreeman wrote:On October 29 2015 05:46 sabas123 wrote:On October 29 2015 05:29 Blargh wrote:
My biggest concern is actually just that there is not enough strategic depth in the game. Based on what? Actually, I agree with Blargh completely. Game is just so much faster, more energetic. All my planning goes into next few seconds, because in those seconds so much happens, that all my plans would be shattered anyway. When I can easily just win based on my opponent reacting one second to late, I´m not even happy with the win. I think that people who play a lot, especially if they are good, will eventually be able to read different situations and base their strategies of off that, but for casual people who can only play a few games a week, it would always be just messy and stressful experience. That was always and will always be the case with starcraft, though. The decision making happens largely in your replay analysis, and in the game you just apply your knowledge and judge based on your experience. Starcraft was never a game where you could sit back and think "Hmmm, what am I going to do next?". Players that do that are usually very low level and stop doing this once they've gathered more experience. And then it's all natural. This does not mean it's not a strategic game. In fact it makes it makes good strategies all the more important since the best ones are those who are either so powerful that they don't have to adapt, or so flexible that they're able to adapt to nearly every possible reaction from the opponent. sorry but thats complete bullshhhhhh. making the game that fast, lotv is, it isnt accessible or fun for beginners or low level players at all. feeling constantly stressed by the mass of tasks makes the unappealing or even unplayable for them. blizzard should have made this game more accessible for beginners but they made more appealing to best of the best. and strategy wise all i see is one harass strat which leads into another harass strat, which may ends the game. its about who can kill more works of his opponent... as a gold player i enjoyed wol and hots but lotv, holy f, there is nothing i can enjoy. its complete stress, from the first second. i feel like blizzard is telling us causuals, noobs are not welcome. but hey thats ok, i find another game to enjoy. The fact that the game is too fast for your liking does not change the fact that this was always the case, even in HotS and WoL. The main difference between the previous two expansions is the fact that there are many safe build orders whereas LotV does not have those yet. Technically LotV is not much faster since yeah, aggression happens a lot earlier, but so does defense. I'm curious, have you ever played any other competetive game out there? As far as I'm concerned, a round of DotA2 can be equally stressing if not more stressing than a round of SC2. The harass point is something I read repeatedly from lower level players (not meant as a diss, just an observation) so there seems to be a lot of truth in there. Though personally I think builds that are safer vs harassment were always an unequal problem in SC2 and is nothing exclusive to LotV. As for me, I played WoW arenas on, I´d say high level. I´ve never been to tournaments, but we´ve made top10 on Arena [snip to make post smaller]. Well you might not be calling it "tryhard" and yourself a "casual"... But you have to pick up ideas for those strategies you executed in HotS from somewhere, right? There are a ton of resources for HotS strategies and if you wanted to execute a build order for your own comfort, you could look it up and get 100s of them. So while you don't do the work yourself, you still get to reap the benefits of others' work. This will be the same once LotV is figured out more. People will put out guides, tutorials, build orders and all that so that you can consume it and apply to your play. Even just watching player streams where you saw something and said to yourself "I'm gonna try that myself!" are greatly improving your play. And with that type of stuff, you're not considered a casual anymore. Even the fact that you're posting on TL potentially shows you're not one. "Real Casuals" barely do any of this, fire up the game and struggle to build a Spawning Pool in time. "Real casuals"(sorry, I hate that term too but I can't think of a better one) were already frustrated with WoL being too fast... If anything, all this shows is that the game might be too hard/fast/stressing/messy for anyone, not just casuals. But that is something I cannot possibly answer.
I thing we just don´t understand each other. I don´t really disagree with you and I don´t thing the other guys do either. We just think that LotV has pushed a game in the wrong direction for a great many players and made it harder for new players to get going.
I actually did the analysis, I did the math, since I really wanted to like LotV, I don´t normally do these things, I never watch HotS replays, I don´t care, I´m just out to have fun, I don´t want to be better (I don´t want to start pushing myself again, since then it will be hard to stop), but with LotV, I did all this and just figured out, that game rewards you, if you are active, you have to develop your units and you have to make use of them, you can´t just build your army and do nothing, that will catch you out immidiately. Again, if I was very skilled, I will probably be really happy with that, but I´m not, a lot of people are not and I think that is the problem.
As for strategies, I have never looked for strategies, it defeats the purpose. For me, I think of strategies when I´m driving, since I can´t do much else, it is one of most fun part of the game, to think about new strategies, it is what pushes me to fire up the game and test them out.
I have actually had a ton of fun thinking of strategies for LotV, since I love the new units, it was the gameplay and winning. that just doesn´t do the job.
On October 29 2015 23:24 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2015 23:14 FromtheAbysS wrote:On October 29 2015 20:43 drifter420 wrote:
sorry but thats complete bullshhhhhh. making the game that fast, lotv is, it isnt accessible or fun for beginners or low level players at all. feeling constantly stressed by the mass of tasks makes the unappealing or even unplayable for them. blizzard should have made this game more accessible for beginners but they made more appealing to best of the best. and strategy wise all i see is one harass strat which leads into another harass strat, which may ends the game. its about who can kill more works of his opponent...
as a gold player i enjoyed wol and hots but lotv, holy f, there is nothing i can enjoy. its complete stress, from the first second. i feel like blizzard is telling us causuals, noobs are not welcome. but hey thats ok, i find another game to enjoy. Yeah, it's true. It gonna be a game for elite players. I am gold player too, and I had some bad times to deal with LOTV at the beginning. I think you need to have a "big APM" to be efficient, and to focus on details to avoid to die on an early timing push or harass. All those things are natural for good players but not for the beginner, and I think they will stop to play LOTV way before to become a good one. Do you think that Archon Mode is a good solution to this problem, or would you say the problem should be solved at the core?
Archon is a big NO-GO for me, since I have picked SC2 only because I didn´t like relying on anyone else, for me, this attribute, is the one biggest reason I even like SC2.
On October 29 2015 23:18 x0x0 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2015 20:43 drifter420 wrote:On October 29 2015 07:26 KeksX wrote:On October 29 2015 05:52 MrFreeman wrote:On October 29 2015 05:46 sabas123 wrote:On October 29 2015 05:29 Blargh wrote:
My biggest concern is actually just that there is not enough strategic depth in the game. Based on what? Actually, I agree with Blargh completely. Game is just so much faster, more energetic. All my planning goes into next few seconds, because in those seconds so much happens, that all my plans would be shattered anyway. When I can easily just win based on my opponent reacting one second to late, I´m not even happy with the win. I think that people who play a lot, especially if they are good, will eventually be able to read different situations and base their strategies of off that, but for casual people who can only play a few games a week, it would always be just messy and stressful experience. That was always and will always be the case with starcraft, though. The decision making happens largely in your replay analysis, and in the game you just apply your knowledge and judge based on your experience. Starcraft was never a game where you could sit back and think "Hmmm, what am I going to do next?". Players that do that are usually very low level and stop doing this once they've gathered more experience. And then it's all natural. This does not mean it's not a strategic game. In fact it makes it makes good strategies all the more important since the best ones are those who are either so powerful that they don't have to adapt, or so flexible that they're able to adapt to nearly every possible reaction from the opponent. sorry but thats complete bullshhhhhh. making the game that fast, lotv is, it isnt accessible or fun for beginners or low level players at all. feeling constantly stressed by the mass of tasks makes the unappealing or even unplayable for them. blizzard should have made this game more accessible for beginners but they made more appealing to best of the best. and strategy wise all i see is one harass strat which leads into another harass strat, which may ends the game. its about who can kill more works of his opponent... as a gold player i enjoyed wol and hots but lotv, holy f, there is nothing i can enjoy. its complete stress, from the first second. i feel like blizzard is telling us causuals, noobs are not welcome. but hey thats ok, i find another game to enjoy. You're so full of shit.Farewell then.One less whiner is always good.Dude, how can you say that LotV it's a complete stress.If this is the case you have issues.You must be playing only to win.I bet you're a rage quitter. Back to LoL with you. Too bad you didn't actually learn how to really enjoy the game and have FUN! Congratz to the one guy/girl who came up with the idea for "Uninstall" button. User was warned for this post
On October 29 2015 23:28 x0x0 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2015 23:14 FromtheAbysS wrote:On October 29 2015 20:43 drifter420 wrote:
sorry but thats complete bullshhhhhh. making the game that fast, lotv is, it isnt accessible or fun for beginners or low level players at all. feeling constantly stressed by the mass of tasks makes the unappealing or even unplayable for them. blizzard should have made this game more accessible for beginners but they made more appealing to best of the best. and strategy wise all i see is one harass strat which leads into another harass strat, which may ends the game. its about who can kill more works of his opponent...
as a gold player i enjoyed wol and hots but lotv, holy f, there is nothing i can enjoy. its complete stress, from the first second. i feel like blizzard is telling us causuals, noobs are not welcome. but hey thats ok, i find another game to enjoy. Yeah, it's true. It gonna be a game for elite players. I am gold player too, and I had some bad times to deal with LOTV at the beginning. I think you need to have a "big APM" to be efficient, and to focus on details to avoid to die on an early timing push or harass. All those things are natural for good players but not for the beginner, and I think they will stop to play LOTV way before to become a good one. big APM...do you think that haveing 200 APM makes u enjoy the game more, or that you're better and not die to early cheese?. APM is not important for beginners.What important is to spend those minerals.Just spend it first, after that you'll learn how to spend it wisely, then you'll find out you can expand , and then spend some more, then you die to some fucking cheese,...what do you do then?.....Repeat the process but you'll try to anticipate any cheese and you scout and so , step bu step, you're LEARNING the game and the FUN factor comes into place.Then you can't stop playing ! This is Starcraft! This is the feeling that most of us have when we are playing starcraft! FUN!!! and of course COMPETITION on ladder is the cherry on top. GL HF!! Beginners should just have fun first with the campaign.It will teach you the basics and more.If you're a beginner you cannot hit the ladder instantly as you will get crushed.Losing 5-6 games in a row and absolutely get stomped is not FUN. It's a real time strategy game and it takes time to learn how to play it.It's not a MOBA- 1 click+ 4 buttons gameplay. HAVE FUN!!! this is all that matters!!
Dude, come on, don´t be this toxic and aggressive. We are having a really nice conversation here, ALL of us love the game, that is why we are even here, discussing it, because we care for the game and want it to do well!
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Blizzard just wants to get it over with... they're rushing out their 4th franchise title
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On October 29 2015 23:28 x0x0 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2015 23:14 FromtheAbysS wrote:On October 29 2015 20:43 drifter420 wrote:
sorry but thats complete bullshhhhhh. making the game that fast, lotv is, it isnt accessible or fun for beginners or low level players at all. feeling constantly stressed by the mass of tasks makes the unappealing or even unplayable for them. blizzard should have made this game more accessible for beginners but they made more appealing to best of the best. and strategy wise all i see is one harass strat which leads into another harass strat, which may ends the game. its about who can kill more works of his opponent...
as a gold player i enjoyed wol and hots but lotv, holy f, there is nothing i can enjoy. its complete stress, from the first second. i feel like blizzard is telling us causuals, noobs are not welcome. but hey thats ok, i find another game to enjoy. Yeah, it's true. It gonna be a game for elite players. I am gold player too, and I had some bad times to deal with LOTV at the beginning. I think you need to have a "big APM" to be efficient, and to focus on details to avoid to die on an early timing push or harass. All those things are natural for good players but not for the beginner, and I think they will stop to play LOTV way before to become a good one. big APM...do you think that haveing 200 APM makes u enjoy the game more, or that you're better and not die to early cheese?. APM is not important for beginners.What important is to spend those minerals.Just spend it first, after that you'll learn how to spend it wisely, then you'll find out you can expand , and then spend some more, then you die to some fucking cheese,...what do you do then?.....Repeat the process but you'll try to anticipate any cheese and you scout and so , step bu step, you're LEARNING the game and the FUN factor comes into place.Then you can't stop playing ! This is Starcraft! This is the feeling that most of us have when we are playing starcraft! FUN!!! and of course COMPETITION on ladder is the cherry on top. GL HF!! Beginners should just have fun first with the campaign.It will teach you the basics and more.If you're a beginner you cannot hit the ladder instantly as you will get crushed.Losing 5-6 games in a row and absolutely get stomped is not FUN. It's a real time strategy game and it takes time to learn how to play it.It's not a MOBA- 1 click+ 4 buttons gameplay. HAVE FUN!!! this is all that matters!!
I can't let you to tell finish the campaign is a way to become a good player. The campaign is SO DIFFERENT from the ladder. Sometimes when I win a game I watch how my opponent deals with WoL and HOTS campaigns, and often I see "finished in brutal mode for both" while the guy showed a poor multitasking or lack of macro skill. Finish campaign means nothing, and above all, you are a good player.
I agree with you with the fact to become a good player and have fun with SC2, you need practice hard, and increase your knowledge of the game but it is a very hard process. That's why many people stop to play SC2, it is hard to master, you need to play so much time on it to start to have fun with.
Have high APM count make the things easier  (if your opponent has a lower APM than you of course)
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On October 29 2015 23:18 x0x0 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2015 20:43 drifter420 wrote:On October 29 2015 07:26 KeksX wrote:On October 29 2015 05:52 MrFreeman wrote:On October 29 2015 05:46 sabas123 wrote:On October 29 2015 05:29 Blargh wrote:
My biggest concern is actually just that there is not enough strategic depth in the game. Based on what? Actually, I agree with Blargh completely. Game is just so much faster, more energetic. All my planning goes into next few seconds, because in those seconds so much happens, that all my plans would be shattered anyway. When I can easily just win based on my opponent reacting one second to late, I´m not even happy with the win. I think that people who play a lot, especially if they are good, will eventually be able to read different situations and base their strategies of off that, but for casual people who can only play a few games a week, it would always be just messy and stressful experience. That was always and will always be the case with starcraft, though. The decision making happens largely in your replay analysis, and in the game you just apply your knowledge and judge based on your experience. Starcraft was never a game where you could sit back and think "Hmmm, what am I going to do next?". Players that do that are usually very low level and stop doing this once they've gathered more experience. And then it's all natural. This does not mean it's not a strategic game. In fact it makes it makes good strategies all the more important since the best ones are those who are either so powerful that they don't have to adapt, or so flexible that they're able to adapt to nearly every possible reaction from the opponent. sorry but thats complete bullshhhhhh. making the game that fast, lotv is, it isnt accessible or fun for beginners or low level players at all. feeling constantly stressed by the mass of tasks makes the unappealing or even unplayable for them. blizzard should have made this game more accessible for beginners but they made more appealing to best of the best. and strategy wise all i see is one harass strat which leads into another harass strat, which may ends the game. its about who can kill more works of his opponent... as a gold player i enjoyed wol and hots but lotv, holy f, there is nothing i can enjoy. its complete stress, from the first second. i feel like blizzard is telling us causuals, noobs are not welcome. but hey thats ok, i find another game to enjoy. You're so full of shit.Farewell then.One less whiner is always good.Dude, how can you say that LotV it's a complete stress.If this is the case you have issues.You must be playing only to win.I bet you're a rage quitter. Back to LoL with you. Too bad you didn't actually learn how to really enjoy the game and have FUN! Congratz to the one guy/girl who came up with the idea for "Uninstall" button. User was warned for this post
no ban for this faggot? im asking myself who is full of shit. i guess its the fucking retard x0x0. get a life stupid son of a bitch.
User was warned for this post
User was temp banned for this post.
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On October 30 2015 18:39 FromtheAbysS wrote:I can't let you to tell finish the campaign is a way to become a good player. The campaign is SO DIFFERENT from the ladder. Sometimes when I win a game I watch how my opponent deals with WoL and HOTS campaigns, and often I see "finished in brutal mode for both" while the guy showed a poor multitasking or lack of macro skill. Finish campaign means nothing, and above all, you are a good player. I agree with you with the fact to become a good player and have fun with SC2, you need practice hard, and increase your knowledge of the game but it is a very hard process. That's why many people stop to play SC2, it is hard to master, you need to play so much time on it to start to have fun with. Have high APM count make the things easier (if your opponent has a lower APM than you of course)
A completely new player needs to learn/develop cheesy 1 base builds for each matchup and to learn specific builds to take advantage of map terrain. Back in the BW days I spent years doing all sorts of dt rushes/drops, abusing any cliffs with tank/lurker drops and doing silly 1 base muta rushes. It was fun winning and it was fun losing. The problem with lower league players is that they try to play the exact same macro style like the pro players, which requires really good defensive micro against more aggressive builds which can end the game really early and be really frustrating because somehow the community associates long macro games as "good" and short cheesy/scrappy games as "evil."
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On October 30 2015 19:15 drifter420 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2015 23:18 x0x0 wrote:On October 29 2015 20:43 drifter420 wrote:On October 29 2015 07:26 KeksX wrote:On October 29 2015 05:52 MrFreeman wrote:On October 29 2015 05:46 sabas123 wrote:On October 29 2015 05:29 Blargh wrote:
My biggest concern is actually just that there is not enough strategic depth in the game. Based on what? Actually, I agree with Blargh completely. Game is just so much faster, more energetic. All my planning goes into next few seconds, because in those seconds so much happens, that all my plans would be shattered anyway. When I can easily just win based on my opponent reacting one second to late, I´m not even happy with the win. I think that people who play a lot, especially if they are good, will eventually be able to read different situations and base their strategies of off that, but for casual people who can only play a few games a week, it would always be just messy and stressful experience. That was always and will always be the case with starcraft, though. The decision making happens largely in your replay analysis, and in the game you just apply your knowledge and judge based on your experience. Starcraft was never a game where you could sit back and think "Hmmm, what am I going to do next?". Players that do that are usually very low level and stop doing this once they've gathered more experience. And then it's all natural. This does not mean it's not a strategic game. In fact it makes it makes good strategies all the more important since the best ones are those who are either so powerful that they don't have to adapt, or so flexible that they're able to adapt to nearly every possible reaction from the opponent. sorry but thats complete bullshhhhhh. making the game that fast, lotv is, it isnt accessible or fun for beginners or low level players at all. feeling constantly stressed by the mass of tasks makes the unappealing or even unplayable for them. blizzard should have made this game more accessible for beginners but they made more appealing to best of the best. and strategy wise all i see is one harass strat which leads into another harass strat, which may ends the game. its about who can kill more works of his opponent... as a gold player i enjoyed wol and hots but lotv, holy f, there is nothing i can enjoy. its complete stress, from the first second. i feel like blizzard is telling us causuals, noobs are not welcome. but hey thats ok, i find another game to enjoy. You're so full of shit.Farewell then.One less whiner is always good.Dude, how can you say that LotV it's a complete stress.If this is the case you have issues.You must be playing only to win.I bet you're a rage quitter. Back to LoL with you. Too bad you didn't actually learn how to really enjoy the game and have FUN! Congratz to the one guy/girl who came up with the idea for "Uninstall" button. User was warned for this post no ban for this faggot? im asking myself who is full of shit. i guess its the fucking retard x0x0. get a life stupid son of a bitch. User was warned for this postUser was temp banned for this post.
get'em off the ice ref!
two , five and a game!
why can't u just keep playing WoL?
i play in a super casual clan and we have players who find games in Bronze, Silver and Gold in WoL very fast and their opponents are near their skill level. most of them own HotS and would rather play the WoL ladder because its easier and less serious.
i hope Blizzard continues to change LotV so that it is even more different from HotS and WoL than it is now. this gives consumers distinctly different RTS games to choose from.
Just play whatever version of SC2 you have the most fun with.
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On October 29 2015 23:24 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2015 23:14 FromtheAbysS wrote:On October 29 2015 20:43 drifter420 wrote:
sorry but thats complete bullshhhhhh. making the game that fast, lotv is, it isnt accessible or fun for beginners or low level players at all. feeling constantly stressed by the mass of tasks makes the unappealing or even unplayable for them. blizzard should have made this game more accessible for beginners but they made more appealing to best of the best. and strategy wise all i see is one harass strat which leads into another harass strat, which may ends the game. its about who can kill more works of his opponent...
as a gold player i enjoyed wol and hots but lotv, holy f, there is nothing i can enjoy. its complete stress, from the first second. i feel like blizzard is telling us causuals, noobs are not welcome. but hey thats ok, i find another game to enjoy. Yeah, it's true. It gonna be a game for elite players. I am gold player too, and I had some bad times to deal with LOTV at the beginning. I think you need to have a "big APM" to be efficient, and to focus on details to avoid to die on an early timing push or harass. All those things are natural for good players but not for the beginner, and I think they will stop to play LOTV way before to become a good one. Do you think that Archon Mode is a good solution to this problem, or would you say the problem should be solved at the core?
Perfect solution is. Find friends at your level on the ladder, go to custom mode, change gamespeed down from fastest XD.
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Been playing a lot these few days, still think the early worker increase is an awesome idea
Looking forward to the co-op mode as well
Might join my first tournament before it is all over
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On October 29 2015 23:24 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2015 23:14 FromtheAbysS wrote:On October 29 2015 20:43 drifter420 wrote:
sorry but thats complete bullshhhhhh. making the game that fast, lotv is, it isnt accessible or fun for beginners or low level players at all. feeling constantly stressed by the mass of tasks makes the unappealing or even unplayable for them. blizzard should have made this game more accessible for beginners but they made more appealing to best of the best. and strategy wise all i see is one harass strat which leads into another harass strat, which may ends the game. its about who can kill more works of his opponent...
as a gold player i enjoyed wol and hots but lotv, holy f, there is nothing i can enjoy. its complete stress, from the first second. i feel like blizzard is telling us causuals, noobs are not welcome. but hey thats ok, i find another game to enjoy. Yeah, it's true. It gonna be a game for elite players. I am gold player too, and I had some bad times to deal with LOTV at the beginning. I think you need to have a "big APM" to be efficient, and to focus on details to avoid to die on an early timing push or harass. All those things are natural for good players but not for the beginner, and I think they will stop to play LOTV way before to become a good one. Do you think that Archon Mode is a good solution to this problem, or would you say the problem should be solved at the core?
Absolutely not. Archon Mode is much faster, and--in many ways--more stressful than traditional 1v1. Archon Mode is non-stop from the very first unit built.
Casual SC2 is the campaign, in my opinion. Which is fine.
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The apm requirement is pretty exaggerated, it's more multitasking and understanding what you should be doing at some given time. I'm diamond on the beta / hots and I rarely break 60 apm. You don't need hundreds of apm to queue a drop, position your army and do a macro cycle once in a while. It's more so new players are often not doing anything actively after an action because they have to pause and think or react due to a lack of knowledge and experience. Spending that pause mindlessly spam selecting your control groups isn't going to do you any good.
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United Kingdom20282 Posts
Been playing a lot these few days, still think the early worker increase is an awesome idea
starting with 12 workers, having super fast creep spread and having standard zerg play hatch-pool-hatch-gas against gateway openings feels like being stuck in 1.5x speed
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On November 02 2015 01:51 Caihead wrote:
The apm requirement is pretty exaggerated, it's more multitasking and understanding what you should be doing at some given time. I'm diamond on the beta / hots and I rarely break 60 apm. You don't need hundreds of apm to queue a drop, position your army and do a macro cycle once in a while. It's more so new players are often not doing anything actively after an action because they have to pause and think or react due to a lack of knowledge and experience. Spending that pause mindlessly spam selecting your control groups isn't going to do you any good.
You played Terran, in the LotV beta, in diamond, with an APM of 60? That sounds ... unlikely. Early-game APM spam is mostly just warming up, getting in a rhythm, and pacing yourself for the more hectic parts of the match, no? I don't really care about the APM number, really, when evaluating my own play. As long as I can do what I need to do.
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EPT
