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On October 27 2015 07:07 Energizer wrote:
Th-Th-Th-Th-Thats all folks!
Dont expect changes after release, what we see now is what LoTV will be. Kinda disappointing actually.
Where are you getting that from? The game will continue to receive balance updates post release, it may not receive massive changes although I swear I read that Blizz said they would consider economy changes post release once the dust has settled. There are some balance changes you just can't forsee until you're a few tournaments deep and even then things keep shifting.
Personally I'm fine with things, there are problems but there always will be, pretty sure people were saying the exact same things about HotS and that ended up in a really nice place eventually. You could have the game in a constant state of flux but at the end of the day they are a business with a release schedule. This beta has been great for communication and I hope they are like this with any future strategy games they work on after SC2 and that they've learnt a lot from what has been a really great game.
I'm really looking forward to watching LotV tournaments now 
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On October 27 2015 07:07 Energizer wrote:
Th-Th-Th-Th-Thats all folks!
Dont expect changes after release, what we see now is what LoTV will be. Kinda disappointing actually.
Have you actually read the previous updates where they said EXACTLY THAT, that they will keep improving the game and will also do big changes after releasing it?
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the units wont be changed doh, at least historically no blizzard games have replaced units after game release. So the units you see is the units you get. Im not thrilled and i will not buy lotv until i think its good enough
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On October 27 2015 10:03 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2015 09:23 Big J wrote:
Makes me sad for the future of this game, although it was a given with the release coming up. I feel you man... Hope they do some big changes after release maybe.
I personally stopped playing SC2 a number of months ago. I played a bit when LotV was released. I was pretty interested at first but quickly lost interest after their patches degraded so fast, even after getting a decent sized following on youtube. If the game doesn't change I probably won't bother to play again after release. As of right now I don't even have the game pre-ordered... :l
Blade and Soul this weekend and their e-sports scene is probably bigger in korea than sc2 honestly >.>.... Plus they have plans for world championship, this year and next year to include NA/EU... Blizzard really falling behind with the whole e-sports thing... :l
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On October 27 2015 07:07 Energizer wrote:
Th-Th-Th-Th-Thats all folks!
Dont expect changes after release, what we see now is what LoTV will be. Kinda disappointing actually.
Yes, time to switch to other RTS.
If only Generals 2 was not canceled.
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I'm so proud of myself for not falling into pre-order trap (helped that I had beta and Firaxis taught me the lesson that nobody can be trusted). Played Blizz RTS since late WC3 roc, and I feel pretty confident that I'm done with them for quite some time.
I'll keep an eye on the eSports scene though, and hopefully I will be pleasantly surprised when high level starcraft is played in LOTV. Thus far, going back to wc3 or playing chess is more appealing..
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On October 27 2015 19:31 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2015 07:07 Energizer wrote:
Th-Th-Th-Th-Thats all folks!
Dont expect changes after release, what we see now is what LoTV will be. Kinda disappointing actually. Yes, time to switch to other RTS. If only Generals 2 was not canceled.
Still showing lies to push AoA?
The only sure thing is some patching after release lol, exactly the contrary of what you're saying.
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Okay, I've play the lotv the last couple of weeks, a couple 1v1s, a couple Archon games. I've watched a fair amount of Pro games (both 1st person and casted). I've come to the conclusion that I'm FUCKING LOVING this game. It's so much quicker, more dynamic, so much more interesting than hots. Both in watching and playing. Yes, there are balance issues, but overall: good fucking job, blizzard. Can't wait for the release.
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On October 27 2015 19:30 -Kyo- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2015 10:03 blade55555 wrote:On October 27 2015 09:23 Big J wrote:
Makes me sad for the future of this game, although it was a given with the release coming up. I feel you man... Hope they do some big changes after release maybe. I personally stopped playing SC2 a number of months ago. I played a bit when LotV was released. I was pretty interested at first but quickly lost interest after their patches degraded so fast, even after getting a decent sized following on youtube. If the game doesn't change I probably won't bother to play again after release. As of right now I don't even have the game pre-ordered... :l Blade and Soul this weekend and their e-sports scene is probably bigger in korea than sc2 honestly >.>.... Plus they have plans for world championship, this year and next year to include NA/EU... Blizzard really falling behind with the whole e-sports thing... :l
Man I get that you are disappointed in things but wtf are you on about bringing Blade & Soul into this discussion? A game where you can buy statboosting potions in a cash shop is hardly built to have a proper and healthy eSports scene.
Just because companies throw money at their game and scream "ESPORTS!!!!" doesn't mean they're the godsend savior for eSports. Not even talking about the fact that these are entirely different games, but simply the fact that many companies using eSports as the new marketing strategy. Keep in mind Blade & Soul has been out for a while in Korea and they're making money off of the game pretty well and eSports is rising in popularity, so of course they can't miss out on this.
Blizzard has done more for eSports than companies like these ever will.
Also, we have yet to see what Blizzard really has in store for LotV. I agree they're rushing LotV out atm, but maybe thats out of their hands. However if they have proper plans post-release there's nothing to cry about. With the new features in SC2, we have reason to believe they still care enough.
I will never get people going to other games just because they promised something. Surely if they promised it, they must deliver it, right? Even if it is a completely different game, it must be better!
Meh. I guess what I'm trying to say is: The failure of Blizzard to properly satisfy all of the community can not be used as a reason to think that other companies will do it better.
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On October 27 2015 21:08 KeksX wrote:
Also, we have yet to see what Blizzard really has in store for LotV. I agree they're rushing LotV out atm, but maybe thats out of their hands. However if they have proper plans post-release there's nothing to cry about. With the new features in SC2, we have reason to believe they still care enough.
There is nothing more. I don't know why people are so naive, blizzard said the exact same things in HotS: "continue to make changes; monitor balance, make necessary adjustments; can always change it if it turns out bad; yada yada yada". Yeah, they throw out a balance patch every few weeks and they goddamn have to given how bad balance is at the moment, but do you really believe there will be tons of gamerelevant stuff coming? Skins, maybe. Changes to the matchmaking, hopefully. Maps and singleplayer stuff, sure. But the multiplayer part of the game is done, what you see is what you get.
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third time in 2days... I have no clue why I press quote instead of edit, sry 
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On October 27 2015 21:21 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2015 21:08 KeksX wrote:
Also, we have yet to see what Blizzard really has in store for LotV. I agree they're rushing LotV out atm, but maybe thats out of their hands. However if they have proper plans post-release there's nothing to cry about. With the new features in SC2, we have reason to believe they still care enough. There is nothing more. I don't know why people are so naive, blizzard said the exact same things in HotS: "continue to make changes; monitor balance, make necessary adjustments; can always change it if it turns out bad; yada yada yada". Yeah, they throw out a balance patch every few weeks and they goddamn have to given how bad balance is at the moment, but do you really believe there will be tons of gamerelevant stuff coming? Skins, maybe. Changes to the matchmaking, hopefully. Maps and stuff, sure. But the multiplayer part of the game is done, what you see is what you get.
The situations are completely different. There's no more singleplayer campaign coming up, and with Heroes Of The Storm they have two games they can cater towards, meaning that they have more engineering power for the multiplayer as well.
There's a lot of possibilities for changes. Who knows, maybe instead of full-blown full prize expansions we get 5$ multiplayer DLCs that add units and features exclusively for multiplayer? It's out in the open at this point since the trilogy is over.
And who the freak cares about balance at this point? Yes, it's a mess, but thats okay. It'd be horrible if LotV was just HotS with a few additions in return for proper balance at release. If you expected the game to be balanced at release it's your own fault imho.
You can't have both design (philosophy) changes and balance.
Keep in mind, it was HotS that made people quit the game. And it's LotV that is bringing them back. LotV is a far cry from perfect but it's an impossible task to both design new things and have them perfectly balanced at start.
And I repeat, I agree that they're rushing out LotV. But until we saw that panel at Blizzcon it's impossible for us to really tell what they have in mind for the future of SC2.
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I can remember a time when people told me blizzard took as much time for game developement as was needed to make it great. That SC2 WoL came out so late because they worked on it for so long. What happened with that? Was it all just a lie? Are they going bankrupt and now have to rush their games? (<- I can hardly imagine that) Is LotV just something they have to do against their will because they promised?
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On October 27 2015 21:29 RoomOfMush wrote:
I can remember a time when people told me blizzard took as much time for game developement as was needed to make it great. That SC2 WoL came out so late because they worked on it for so long. What happened with that? Was it all just a lie? Are they going bankrupt and now have to rush their games? (<- I can hardly imagine that) Is LotV just something they have to do against their will because they promised?
LOTV was planned since before WOL. The singleplayer that is. Their decision of making a second expansion after the first hadn't even been released was not a very good move for a game where adding things to multiplayer is very very difficult; essentially they got into a position where all the singleplayer content and cinematics are done, but with very little idea of how to expand on the content they had in place since HOTS. Not releasing when it's gone that far is just a monetary drain, and at some point they just have to say "sod it, that'll have to do" when all other content is already finished.
Considering they've been trying a little bit of everything without being willing to innovate much, extending the deadline probably wouldn't really accomplish anything anyway.
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On October 27 2015 21:26 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2015 21:21 Big J wrote:On October 27 2015 21:08 KeksX wrote:
Also, we have yet to see what Blizzard really has in store for LotV. I agree they're rushing LotV out atm, but maybe thats out of their hands. However if they have proper plans post-release there's nothing to cry about. With the new features in SC2, we have reason to believe they still care enough. There is nothing more. I don't know why people are so naive, blizzard said the exact same things in HotS: "continue to make changes; monitor balance, make necessary adjustments; can always change it if it turns out bad; yada yada yada". Yeah, they throw out a balance patch every few weeks and they goddamn have to given how bad balance is at the moment, but do you really believe there will be tons of gamerelevant stuff coming? Skins, maybe. Changes to the matchmaking, hopefully. Maps and stuff, sure. But the multiplayer part of the game is done, what you see is what you get. The situations are completely different. There's no more singleplayer campaign coming up, and with Heroes Of The Storm they have two games they can cater towards, meaning that they have more engineering power for the multiplayer as well. There's a lot of possibilities for changes. Who knows, maybe instead of full-blown full prize expansions we get 5$ multiplayer DLCs that add units and features exclusively for multiplayer? It's out in the open at this point since the trilogy is over. And who the freak cares about balance at this point? Yes, it's a mess, but thats okay. It'd be horrible if LotV was just HotS with a few additions in return for proper balance at release. If you expected the game to be balanced at release it's your own fault imho. You can't have both, Design (philosophy) changes and balance. You either balance what you have or you come up with new stuff that's not balanced straight away. Keep in mind, it was HotS that made people quit the game. And it's LotV that is bringing them back. LotV is a far cry from perfect but it's an impossible task to both design new things and have them perfectly balanced at start.
I don't perceive LotV changes as big swing in design philosophy. And a lot of the balance problems have not been created by the small scale design changes they did like economy, but by the new units and balance changes to the old ones (ultralisk, nydus, viper). LotV is exactly what HotS was, a small, conservative expansion with a focus on adding content instead of improving and tweaking gameplay.
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On October 27 2015 21:49 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2015 21:26 KeksX wrote:On October 27 2015 21:21 Big J wrote:On October 27 2015 21:08 KeksX wrote:
Also, we have yet to see what Blizzard really has in store for LotV. I agree they're rushing LotV out atm, but maybe thats out of their hands. However if they have proper plans post-release there's nothing to cry about. With the new features in SC2, we have reason to believe they still care enough. There is nothing more. I don't know why people are so naive, blizzard said the exact same things in HotS: "continue to make changes; monitor balance, make necessary adjustments; can always change it if it turns out bad; yada yada yada". Yeah, they throw out a balance patch every few weeks and they goddamn have to given how bad balance is at the moment, but do you really believe there will be tons of gamerelevant stuff coming? Skins, maybe. Changes to the matchmaking, hopefully. Maps and stuff, sure. But the multiplayer part of the game is done, what you see is what you get. The situations are completely different. There's no more singleplayer campaign coming up, and with Heroes Of The Storm they have two games they can cater towards, meaning that they have more engineering power for the multiplayer as well. There's a lot of possibilities for changes. Who knows, maybe instead of full-blown full prize expansions we get 5$ multiplayer DLCs that add units and features exclusively for multiplayer? It's out in the open at this point since the trilogy is over. And who the freak cares about balance at this point? Yes, it's a mess, but thats okay. It'd be horrible if LotV was just HotS with a few additions in return for proper balance at release. If you expected the game to be balanced at release it's your own fault imho. You can't have both, Design (philosophy) changes and balance. You either balance what you have or you come up with new stuff that's not balanced straight away. Keep in mind, it was HotS that made people quit the game. And it's LotV that is bringing them back. LotV is a far cry from perfect but it's an impossible task to both design new things and have them perfectly balanced at start. I don't perceive LotV changes as big swing in design philosophy. And a lot of the balance problems have not been created by the small scale design changes they did like economy, but by the new units and balance changes to the old ones (ultralisk, nydus, viper).
The economy was not a small scale design change. It fundamentally changed how people see expansions (remembe the term "Expand or die"?).
And who is to say that they're not going to change these units further? It wouldn't be the first time they changed an already existing unit completely post-release, and with the current context it's much more likely.
LotV is exactly what HotS was, a small, conservative expansion with a focus on adding content instead of improving and tweaking gameplay
While I agree that LotV is (too) similar to Hots, it's not even close to being "exactly like HotS". My Zerg play has completely changed in LotV compared to HotS. And my opponents' playstyles have changed, too. I'm using two base muta as often as a lurker based defensive style that switches into more mobile tech. I also utilize three base ling/bling muta plays from the old days, and sometimes even rush to hive to punish my opponent for not paying attention. I've even started to use Swarm Host here and there, the only unit I'm currently never using is the Infestor.
It all depends on how/when the meta settles in and how much Blizzard is willing to change in the future( as I keep saying). If the meta settles in to be as boring as HotS, sure it's bad. But we cannot say that unless we know how Blizzard will approach SC2 in the future.
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I have not preordered lotv and I will not.
The beta has not convinced to buy it.
For now I will just wait and see how it turns out. The biggest challenges for blizzard going forward here is keeping the game varied (wide variety of openings and playstyles), while at the same time making the game less volatile.
There are of course good things with the beta but it is impossible to say how it will look once the meta settles.
The biggest incentive for me right now to buy it would be for the campaign but even that is not that strong. I really liked the wol campaign but the hots campaign was disappointing in its mediocrity.
All in all at some point I will probably get it but unless they announce something extraordinary at blizzcon it will probably be a while before I do.
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On October 27 2015 21:49 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2015 21:26 KeksX wrote:On October 27 2015 21:21 Big J wrote:On October 27 2015 21:08 KeksX wrote:
Also, we have yet to see what Blizzard really has in store for LotV. I agree they're rushing LotV out atm, but maybe thats out of their hands. However if they have proper plans post-release there's nothing to cry about. With the new features in SC2, we have reason to believe they still care enough. There is nothing more. I don't know why people are so naive, blizzard said the exact same things in HotS: "continue to make changes; monitor balance, make necessary adjustments; can always change it if it turns out bad; yada yada yada". Yeah, they throw out a balance patch every few weeks and they goddamn have to given how bad balance is at the moment, but do you really believe there will be tons of gamerelevant stuff coming? Skins, maybe. Changes to the matchmaking, hopefully. Maps and stuff, sure. But the multiplayer part of the game is done, what you see is what you get. The situations are completely different. There's no more singleplayer campaign coming up, and with Heroes Of The Storm they have two games they can cater towards, meaning that they have more engineering power for the multiplayer as well. There's a lot of possibilities for changes. Who knows, maybe instead of full-blown full prize expansions we get 5$ multiplayer DLCs that add units and features exclusively for multiplayer? It's out in the open at this point since the trilogy is over. And who the freak cares about balance at this point? Yes, it's a mess, but thats okay. It'd be horrible if LotV was just HotS with a few additions in return for proper balance at release. If you expected the game to be balanced at release it's your own fault imho. You can't have both, Design (philosophy) changes and balance. You either balance what you have or you come up with new stuff that's not balanced straight away. Keep in mind, it was HotS that made people quit the game. And it's LotV that is bringing them back. LotV is a far cry from perfect but it's an impossible task to both design new things and have them perfectly balanced at start. I don't perceive LotV changes as big swing in design philosophy. And a lot of the balance problems have not been created by the small scale design changes they did like economy, but by the new units and balance changes to the old ones (ultralisk, nydus, viper). LotV is exactly what HotS was, a small, conservative expansion with a focus on adding content instead of improving and tweaking gameplay.
Did you just call the economy a small scale change? Have you even played StarCraft?
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Hype! I know it's a week without playing, but it really raises the excitement for me. Finally we will get our local servers and the game is already way more fun that HotS and I'm sure it will only get better after release. The beta wasn't perfect, but it was better than any other beta I've ever seen. So much Community-Developer interaction was awesome, thanks a lot Blizzard! They put small and big community suggestions like moving turrets or the disruptor rework directly into the game, I still can't believe it . I'm not concerned about balance, Blizzard has proven they will always get it to a good place in the long run.
Overall I'm very excited and can't wait for the 10th!
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If you've followed LotV from the beginning it doesn't feel there were a huge slew of changes, but if you go back and play HotS it really is different.
I think the biggest overlooked philosophies are (1)upgrades/tech tree, (2)games ending abruptly and (3)map features that allow players to take advantages from map control or strong positions on the map.
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EPT
