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On September 18 2015 19:09 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2015 19:05 mCon.Hephaistas wrote:On September 18 2015 17:41 Dingodile wrote:
Hydra said on twitter: No.. there always needs a thing that makes a gap among the pros.
I wish the "thing" is Micro or strategy or whatever else and not on economy boost like MM (what Hydra apparently want). It already is, top Koreans already have almost flawless mechanics. They separate themselves from others with multitasking/micro and strategies. If you take away macro mechanics like inject, there will just simply not enough tasks for top Koreans to do, it will close the gap between top foreigners/bad koreans and the good ones. That's not something we should want. Broodwar was so glorious because even the top players couldn't achieve flawless macro while also micro'ing and multitasking their army. There was just so much to improve for everyone so the best players could actually seperate themselves from the rest and were being able to dominate for longer periods. That is your theory. Does not make it true.
What? That isn't even a theory. It's the truth. SC2 is way too easy as it already is, making it even EASIER would only result in a rock paper scissors game where anyone can win and skill is not rewarded.
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Russian Federation421 Posts
On September 18 2015 18:10 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2015 17:57 [PkF] Wire wrote:On September 18 2015 17:54 -Archangel- wrote:On September 18 2015 17:44 [PkF] Wire wrote:On September 18 2015 17:43 -Archangel- wrote:On September 18 2015 07:20 flipstar wrote:
So, I downloaded Wc3 instead. It is Act of Aggression for me. If LotV really sucks too hard (which is EXTREMELY unlikely to be honest, even if disappointing patches like that one can be rather unnerving) I'll just stay on HotS which is fairly good. For people that like HotS, these last changes to LotV are normal. HotS lovers have no reason to not play LotV. It is people like me that wanted basic design bullshit from WoL and HotS to be finally fixed in LotV that are giving up now. I think I will teach my daughter to play BW instead. At least with hard macro it had fun units and abilities. It's sad tbh, even with its undeniable flaws SC2 is infinitely superior to any current strategy game in terms of depth and longetivity. It has more money put into it, that is all. The polish level of sc2 is 3x more than any competition. I don't consider it superior in basic design.
I don't see it personally. I played highly praised Grey Goo and I felt it was very simply designed - every race had one unit of a type. They differed from each other but all races felt really similar - most differences felt like "let's change this and this so that scout will be somehow different from that scout". Yes, the grey goo race had significant asymmetry in lacking aircraft and base management - but no race specific options were on the design level of creep spread, bio/mech duality or warp gate (to name a few).
Seeing that Act of Agression has followed the same basic pattern - one unit of a type for each faction - I won't buy it until it hit sales so that I won't spend much money on a game I likely won't enjoy.
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On September 18 2015 19:17 sd_andeh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2015 19:09 -Archangel- wrote:On September 18 2015 19:05 mCon.Hephaistas wrote:On September 18 2015 17:41 Dingodile wrote:
Hydra said on twitter: No.. there always needs a thing that makes a gap among the pros.
I wish the "thing" is Micro or strategy or whatever else and not on economy boost like MM (what Hydra apparently want). It already is, top Koreans already have almost flawless mechanics. They separate themselves from others with multitasking/micro and strategies. If you take away macro mechanics like inject, there will just simply not enough tasks for top Koreans to do, it will close the gap between top foreigners/bad koreans and the good ones. That's not something we should want. Broodwar was so glorious because even the top players couldn't achieve flawless macro while also micro'ing and multitasking their army. There was just so much to improve for everyone so the best players could actually seperate themselves from the rest and were being able to dominate for longer periods. That is your theory. Does not make it true. What? That isn't even a theory. It's the truth. SC2 is way too easy as it already is, making it even EASIER would only result in a rock paper scissors game where anyone can win and skill is not rewarded.
Of course it is lol. Your truth. Every person on the planet has his own truth about everything
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On September 18 2015 19:19 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2015 19:17 sd_andeh wrote:On September 18 2015 19:09 -Archangel- wrote:On September 18 2015 19:05 mCon.Hephaistas wrote:On September 18 2015 17:41 Dingodile wrote:
Hydra said on twitter: No.. there always needs a thing that makes a gap among the pros.
I wish the "thing" is Micro or strategy or whatever else and not on economy boost like MM (what Hydra apparently want). It already is, top Koreans already have almost flawless mechanics. They separate themselves from others with multitasking/micro and strategies. If you take away macro mechanics like inject, there will just simply not enough tasks for top Koreans to do, it will close the gap between top foreigners/bad koreans and the good ones. That's not something we should want. Broodwar was so glorious because even the top players couldn't achieve flawless macro while also micro'ing and multitasking their army. There was just so much to improve for everyone so the best players could actually seperate themselves from the rest and were being able to dominate for longer periods. That is your theory. Does not make it true. What? That isn't even a theory. It's the truth. SC2 is way too easy as it already is, making it even EASIER would only result in a rock paper scissors game where anyone can win and skill is not rewarded. Of course it is lol. Your truth. Every person on the planet has his own truth about everything
How the game is right now remains a fact, and how lowering the skill ceiling would affect the game is also a fact.
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The thing i'm concerned about, is do mules have the same mining rate than in HOTS ?
Because Zerg still have 3 larvas per inject (dunno why if not auto-inject anymore), and Protoss have a new chrono (and it's hard to say if it's better or worst than the chrono of HOTS ).
Do Terran macro will be too strong compared to other race ?
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On September 18 2015 19:20 sd_andeh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2015 19:19 -Archangel- wrote:On September 18 2015 19:17 sd_andeh wrote:On September 18 2015 19:09 -Archangel- wrote:On September 18 2015 19:05 mCon.Hephaistas wrote:On September 18 2015 17:41 Dingodile wrote:
Hydra said on twitter: No.. there always needs a thing that makes a gap among the pros.
I wish the "thing" is Micro or strategy or whatever else and not on economy boost like MM (what Hydra apparently want). It already is, top Koreans already have almost flawless mechanics. They separate themselves from others with multitasking/micro and strategies. If you take away macro mechanics like inject, there will just simply not enough tasks for top Koreans to do, it will close the gap between top foreigners/bad koreans and the good ones. That's not something we should want. Broodwar was so glorious because even the top players couldn't achieve flawless macro while also micro'ing and multitasking their army. There was just so much to improve for everyone so the best players could actually seperate themselves from the rest and were being able to dominate for longer periods. That is your theory. Does not make it true. What? That isn't even a theory. It's the truth. SC2 is way too easy as it already is, making it even EASIER would only result in a rock paper scissors game where anyone can win and skill is not rewarded. Of course it is lol. Your truth. Every person on the planet has his own truth about everything How the game is right now remains a fact, and how lowering the skill ceiling would affect the game is also a fact.
Just changing the word from truth to fact or repeating same thing over and over does not change anything. It is still just your opinion.
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On September 18 2015 19:33 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2015 19:20 sd_andeh wrote:On September 18 2015 19:19 -Archangel- wrote:On September 18 2015 19:17 sd_andeh wrote:On September 18 2015 19:09 -Archangel- wrote:On September 18 2015 19:05 mCon.Hephaistas wrote:On September 18 2015 17:41 Dingodile wrote:
Hydra said on twitter: No.. there always needs a thing that makes a gap among the pros.
I wish the "thing" is Micro or strategy or whatever else and not on economy boost like MM (what Hydra apparently want). It already is, top Koreans already have almost flawless mechanics. They separate themselves from others with multitasking/micro and strategies. If you take away macro mechanics like inject, there will just simply not enough tasks for top Koreans to do, it will close the gap between top foreigners/bad koreans and the good ones. That's not something we should want. Broodwar was so glorious because even the top players couldn't achieve flawless macro while also micro'ing and multitasking their army. There was just so much to improve for everyone so the best players could actually seperate themselves from the rest and were being able to dominate for longer periods. That is your theory. Does not make it true. What? That isn't even a theory. It's the truth. SC2 is way too easy as it already is, making it even EASIER would only result in a rock paper scissors game where anyone can win and skill is not rewarded. Of course it is lol. Your truth. Every person on the planet has his own truth about everything How the game is right now remains a fact, and how lowering the skill ceiling would affect the game is also a fact. Just changing the word from truth to fact or repeating same thing over and over does not change anything. It is still just your opinion.
Sorry but you don't seem to know what you're talking about. Not sure if you're trying to troll, but the current state of the game is just as much a fact and truth as 1+1=2 is. How skill ceilings work is also a fact and a truth, just as 1+1=2.
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On September 18 2015 18:41 Kranyum wrote:
Trash changes. I'm sad I pre ordered.
I'd like a refund please.
You can! Submit a ticket and request a refund; my ticket was processed within 6 hours.
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Russian Federation421 Posts
On September 18 2015 19:40 sd_andeh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2015 19:33 -Archangel- wrote:On September 18 2015 19:20 sd_andeh wrote:On September 18 2015 19:19 -Archangel- wrote:On September 18 2015 19:17 sd_andeh wrote:On September 18 2015 19:09 -Archangel- wrote:On September 18 2015 19:05 mCon.Hephaistas wrote:On September 18 2015 17:41 Dingodile wrote:
Hydra said on twitter: No.. there always needs a thing that makes a gap among the pros.
I wish the "thing" is Micro or strategy or whatever else and not on economy boost like MM (what Hydra apparently want). It already is, top Koreans already have almost flawless mechanics. They separate themselves from others with multitasking/micro and strategies. If you take away macro mechanics like inject, there will just simply not enough tasks for top Koreans to do, it will close the gap between top foreigners/bad koreans and the good ones. That's not something we should want. Broodwar was so glorious because even the top players couldn't achieve flawless macro while also micro'ing and multitasking their army. There was just so much to improve for everyone so the best players could actually seperate themselves from the rest and were being able to dominate for longer periods. That is your theory. Does not make it true. What? That isn't even a theory. It's the truth. SC2 is way too easy as it already is, making it even EASIER would only result in a rock paper scissors game where anyone can win and skill is not rewarded. Of course it is lol. Your truth. Every person on the planet has his own truth about everything How the game is right now remains a fact, and how lowering the skill ceiling would affect the game is also a fact. Just changing the word from truth to fact or repeating same thing over and over does not change anything. It is still just your opinion. Sorry but you don't seem to know what you're talking about. Not sure if you're trying to troll, but the current state of the game is just as much a fact and truth as 1+1=2 is. How skill ceilings work is also a fact and a truth, just as 1+1=2.
1+1=2 is undeniable truth because it is definition of 2. Simple explanation, isn't it? Could you please explain you statement "SC2 is way too easy as it already is, making it even EASIER would only result in a rock paper scissors game where anyone can win and skill is not rewarded" is the same simple fashion for us dummies?
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I think I'm OK with all this. Not the most daring changes, but seems fine.
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On September 18 2015 19:17 sd_andeh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2015 19:09 -Archangel- wrote:On September 18 2015 19:05 mCon.Hephaistas wrote:On September 18 2015 17:41 Dingodile wrote:
Hydra said on twitter: No.. there always needs a thing that makes a gap among the pros.
I wish the "thing" is Micro or strategy or whatever else and not on economy boost like MM (what Hydra apparently want). It already is, top Koreans already have almost flawless mechanics. They separate themselves from others with multitasking/micro and strategies. If you take away macro mechanics like inject, there will just simply not enough tasks for top Koreans to do, it will close the gap between top foreigners/bad koreans and the good ones. That's not something we should want. Broodwar was so glorious because even the top players couldn't achieve flawless macro while also micro'ing and multitasking their army. There was just so much to improve for everyone so the best players could actually seperate themselves from the rest and were being able to dominate for longer periods. That is your theory. Does not make it true. What? That isn't even a theory. It's the truth. SC2 is way too easy as it already is, making it even EASIER would only result in a rock paper scissors game where anyone can win and skill is not rewarded.
Did you play/watch wc3? around zero MM and the gap between good and bad players were infinite bigger than sc2. I do not want that sc2 become to wc3 but it is very sad that the worst & most unfun thing (MM) has the biggest influence in sc2.
I prefer to spend more time with my army than with MM or economy.
Edit: I find funny that you dont see that MM increases rock scissor paper element.
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finally creep goes bye bye faster, waiting since wol.
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On September 18 2015 20:12 FeyFey wrote:
finally creep goes bye bye faster, waiting since wol.
Guess that affects creep spread from overlords as well? So overlords denying expansions is weaker now, which is good for the new pace of the game I guess.
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On September 18 2015 20:12 FeyFey wrote:
finally creep goes bye bye faster, waiting since wol.
That got me thinking: Maybe make creep recede really, really fast. And then upgrade the time based on how many creep tumors and overlords were "supporting" that area of creep?
This way zerg players could actually invest into having longer-lasting creep.
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On September 18 2015 17:57 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +There was no attempt to balance T without mule (and the fact that they removed it without adding any sort of adjustment was beyond shortsighted - can you imagine if they removed injects without even considering some additional balance change?)! Inject gives well over half of zerg production (it's about 57.5%). As powerful and abusive as mules can be, they don't make THAT much impact on the game. I think though, inject or more of a healthy mechanic (aside from always being mandatory to cast immediately as it pops, even during a battle instead of microing) while mules are not so healthy. They shine in edgy abuse cases. Terran pulls most of their workers? MULES! Terran took a bunch of harass damage? MULES! Sack all scv's aside from 20 on gas, MULES! In most games they provide relatively passive power - power that could be assigned to other units or a less abusable form of economy instead. That's what i'd like to see.
Are you suggesting that it wasn't asinine to remove mules without even thinking about a concurrent T buff (or that the first follow up shouldn't have been a balance adjustment instead of reverting to nerfed mules?)
Injects might be even more important but you cannot discount how much losing that early game burst slowed down everything T could do. A buff to defending (maybe some of those bunker/rax nefts could have been reverted first) would have gone a long way in establishing more bases to compensate for the lowered income rate.
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I like it. They have a good game already, changing macro mechanics for the last of segment of a trilogy when the first 2 games had identical macro mechanics would be far too drastic, in my opinion.
Wait until SC3 for those giant changes, this is meant to be the final expansion for SC2. People who are looking for a 'brand new game' are looking in the wrong place, and should be happy Blizzard even entertained your ridiculous ideas for even 10 minutes.
No offense meant to anybody.
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I hate spawn larva so much, that I don't even want to play
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On September 18 2015 20:28 J. Corsair wrote:
I like it. They have a good game already, changing macro mechanics for the last of segment of a trilogy when the first 2 games had identical macro mechanics would be far too drastic, in my opinion.
You not play zergs
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Hey, at least a good macro zerg has the possibility to differentiate himself from the rest now
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On September 18 2015 19:40 sd_andeh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2015 19:33 -Archangel- wrote:On September 18 2015 19:20 sd_andeh wrote:On September 18 2015 19:19 -Archangel- wrote:On September 18 2015 19:17 sd_andeh wrote:On September 18 2015 19:09 -Archangel- wrote:On September 18 2015 19:05 mCon.Hephaistas wrote:On September 18 2015 17:41 Dingodile wrote:
Hydra said on twitter: No.. there always needs a thing that makes a gap among the pros.
I wish the "thing" is Micro or strategy or whatever else and not on economy boost like MM (what Hydra apparently want). It already is, top Koreans already have almost flawless mechanics. They separate themselves from others with multitasking/micro and strategies. If you take away macro mechanics like inject, there will just simply not enough tasks for top Koreans to do, it will close the gap between top foreigners/bad koreans and the good ones. That's not something we should want. Broodwar was so glorious because even the top players couldn't achieve flawless macro while also micro'ing and multitasking their army. There was just so much to improve for everyone so the best players could actually seperate themselves from the rest and were being able to dominate for longer periods. That is your theory. Does not make it true. What? That isn't even a theory. It's the truth. SC2 is way too easy as it already is, making it even EASIER would only result in a rock paper scissors game where anyone can win and skill is not rewarded. Of course it is lol. Your truth. Every person on the planet has his own truth about everything How the game is right now remains a fact, and how lowering the skill ceiling would affect the game is also a fact. Just changing the word from truth to fact or repeating same thing over and over does not change anything. It is still just your opinion. Sorry but you don't seem to know what you're talking about. Not sure if you're trying to troll, but the current state of the game is just as much a fact and truth as 1+1=2 is. How skill ceilings work is also a fact and a truth, just as 1+1=2.
Only troll here is you trying to present your opinion as truth or fact over and over. You are just embarrassing yourself.
Just accept we all deal here with opinions and continue on.
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EPT
