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Germany3367 Posts
On September 18 2015 20:17 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2015 20:12 FeyFey wrote:
finally creep goes bye bye faster, waiting since wol. That got me thinking: Maybe make creep recede really, really fast. And then upgrade the time based on how many creep tumors and overlords were "supporting" that area of creep? This way zerg players could actually invest into having longer-lasting creep.
Oh, I really like this idea!
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Canada13387 Posts
The way they removed the mule hammers was great.
Why cant they reduce cast range but keep mule manual cast? Zzz
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On September 18 2015 20:44 ZeromuS wrote:
The way they removed the mule hammers was great.
Why cant they reduce cast range but keep mule manual cast? Zzz
They reverted that too? Thats weird
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Long time Lurker here..
I have played a shitton of Beta Games and i was so happy about the state of the game, i had more fun than ever with Autocast. I couldnt even be bothered to go back to hots, i liked it that much.
I feel like this is a step in the wrong direction.. lots of disappointment here.
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i dont like reverting back to hots macro mechanics.
The new ones seemed really solid and gave much more opportunity to diversity.
I get the feeling the game will become stale again.
Too bad!
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On September 18 2015 20:52 zeuslor wrote:
Long time Lurker here..
I have played a shitton of Beta Games and i was so happy about the state of the game, i had more fun than ever with Autocast. I couldnt even be bothered to go back to hots, i liked it that much.
I feel like this is a step in the wrong direction.. lots of disappointment here.
Which race do you play? Personally, as a zerg, I stopped playing the beta after a few games with auto inject. I want to be in control of my units and just don't like it when they do something I didn't tell them to do.
But more importantly, there was nothing to do in my base and I could watch my army the whole game long. To me it just felt cheap to play and win like this, since the macro part was the challenging part about zerg. Zerg armies are one of the more a-move heavy armies, but that is fine since the races are supposed to be different and the challenge was to get that many units so you can win by just overwhelming your opponent. Now that this challenge was gone, playing zerg just felt unfullfilling.
For Terran and Protoss the changes were okay I think. They still have to build production facilities and have a lot more to do in their base than zerg.
I would be okay if they removed inject completely, increased the hatchery larva spawn rate and then gave the queen a new macro mechanic like chrono boost. Then you would still have to look at your base from time to time if you want to get 100% out of your race, but not using that zerg chrono boost is not as punishing as missing injects. But auto inject is just way too lazy and would make me change races.
Oh and welcome to posting on the forum, no way back now  .
Edit: Btw I did not play the new patch yet, might be a really good solution too, just maybe not enough for new casual/new/low level players. I will definitely like it way more than auto-inject.
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On September 18 2015 21:18 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2015 20:52 zeuslor wrote:
Long time Lurker here..
I have played a shitton of Beta Games and i was so happy about the state of the game, i had more fun than ever with Autocast. I couldnt even be bothered to go back to hots, i liked it that much.
I feel like this is a step in the wrong direction.. lots of disappointment here. Which race do you play? Personally, as a zerg, I stopped playing the beta after a few games with auto inject. I want to be in control of my units and just don't like it when they do something I didn't tell them to do. But more importantly, there was nothing to do in my base and I could watch my army the whole game long. To me it just felt cheap to play and win like this, since the macro part was the challenging part about zerg. Zerg armies are one of the more a-move heavy armies, but that is fine since the races are supposed to be different and the challenge was to get that many units so you can win by just overwhelming your opponent. Now that this challenge was gone, playing zerg just felt unfullfilling. For Terran and Protoss the changes were okay I think. They still have to build production facilities and have a lot more to do in their base than zerg. I would be okay if they removed inject completely, increased the hatchery larva spawn rate and then gave the queen a new macro mechanic like chrono boost. Then you would still have to look at your base from time to time if you want to get 100% out of your race, but not using that zerg chrono boost is not as punishing as missing injects. But auto inject is just way too lazy and would make me change races. Oh and welcome to posting on the forum, no way back now . Edit: Btw I did not play the new patch yet, might be a really good solution too, just maybe not enough for new casual/new/low level players. I will definitely like it way more than auto-inject.
I felt the same and had the same reaction, I stopped playing after testing the auto-cast inject, it felt like playing with a hack.
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On September 18 2015 21:44 Vanadiel wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2015 21:18 Musicus wrote:On September 18 2015 20:52 zeuslor wrote:
Long time Lurker here..
I have played a shitton of Beta Games and i was so happy about the state of the game, i had more fun than ever with Autocast. I couldnt even be bothered to go back to hots, i liked it that much.
I feel like this is a step in the wrong direction.. lots of disappointment here. Which race do you play? Personally, as a zerg, I stopped playing the beta after a few games with auto inject. I want to be in control of my units and just don't like it when they do something I didn't tell them to do. But more importantly, there was nothing to do in my base and I could watch my army the whole game long. To me it just felt cheap to play and win like this, since the macro part was the challenging part about zerg. Zerg armies are one of the more a-move heavy armies, but that is fine since the races are supposed to be different and the challenge was to get that many units so you can win by just overwhelming your opponent. Now that this challenge was gone, playing zerg just felt unfullfilling. For Terran and Protoss the changes were okay I think. They still have to build production facilities and have a lot more to do in their base than zerg. I would be okay if they removed inject completely, increased the hatchery larva spawn rate and then gave the queen a new macro mechanic like chrono boost. Then you would still have to look at your base from time to time if you want to get 100% out of your race, but not using that zerg chrono boost is not as punishing as missing injects. But auto inject is just way too lazy and would make me change races. Oh and welcome to posting on the forum, no way back now . Edit: Btw I did not play the new patch yet, might be a really good solution too, just maybe not enough for new casual/new/low level players. I will definitely like it way more than auto-inject. I felt the same and had the same reaction, I stopped playing after testing the auto-cast inject, it felt like playing with a hack.
Yeah exactly haha, I think an inject hack even existed? Not sure, but it felt exactly like that!
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Imo that's a good thing they didnt change the macro mechanics as they wanted to do.
Especially I think for the MULES.
They are so important for terrans to hold on after huge zerg or toss all ins, and at end game to let the terran to make a possible come back. That provides us so exciting games.
When guys are saying mules are imba, on the other side they have to think about great advantages of the other races.
Protoss with chronoboost can upgrade and take sometimes an important 3/3 timing when terran or zerg have not finished their 2/2 yet and produce units very fast too.
The possibility to warp with warp prism and pylon is also a big advantage when terrans have to rally all their units and cannot arrive in the fight as fast as protoss do, with for example huge zealots warpins when you thin protoss lost the fight.
Zerg has the possibility to have an incredible and legit maphack with the creep. Also their units are pretty better on the creep.
And regarding the way they produce, with good larva injects, they can produce so many units in one shot, as a warpin, but the better option they have is the possibility to switch completely all the tecs. How many games did zerg win with a huge mutas switch when terrans had so many tanks and hellbats because of ultras and roaches or protoss when they have so many collosi without anticipating the stargate for phoenixes ?
So every race has advantage and to mess up with the macro mechanics will be better for us, casual players, but will be terrible for pro gamers who know perfectly the timing and use to know macro mechanics to show us so great games.
Blizzard can change some units, nerf or buff, some upgrade timings they think too imba, but they dont have to touch macro mechanics I think.
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I liked the chrono and mule changes (save for scans being too expensive). Too bad they got reverted.
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I'm disappointed with this patch, but as inject is a horrible mechanic. I hope it will not make it into the final game, and if it do, well i might switch to terran or protoss
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So how to use the new inject? I normally use queen control group, then alternate base-cam button and inject button. But now the queen with the most energy goes on a roadtrip to double inject after each hatchery has 1 inject its quite annoying.
Also there is no indicator if the hatch is stacked? So after you stack a hatchery you have no idea when to inject again. It's actually more difficult than normal injects :-/
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On September 18 2015 22:14 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
So how to use the new inject? I normally use queen control group, then alternate base-cam button and inject button. But now the queen with the most energy goes on a roadtrip to double inject after each hatchery has 1 inject its quite annoying.
Also there is no indicator if the hatch is stacked? So after you stack a hatchery you have no idea when to inject again. It's actually more difficult than normal injects :-/
Yeah, I think you go away from the rapid fire Inject and just have 1 Queen sitting at every hatch and that Queen queues up on that Hatch everytime it can.
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OK, so macro mechanics changes so far are:
- No change for Terran.
- Chrono is now harder to manage, but if you want to chrono specific buildings for a longer time, you don't have to worry that much.
Keep in mind that this is also a nerf to Chrono: in HotS, if you have one Nexus, you can accelerate a building by about 20-25% (can't remember the exact number, I think it's actually very close to 22.5%) with that one Nexus (this is considering the energy regen rate of the Nexus, and that you can't Chrono indefinitely because of it). So it seems that this version of the LotV Crono boost is actually about as effective as the old one. The one thing, though, is that in HotS you can stack Chronos of more Nexi on the same building, so if you have enough Nexi, you can constantly Chrono a building (at least for a certain period of time), so you can produce 50% faster. This is not possible in LotV.
- Inject was the most critical one of the three, being the most "mindless clicking lacking any strategic depth". Well, the mindless clicking remains, with no strategic depth still. What is disappearing is the differentiation between good and bad inject players, as the new system is more forgiving (optimally, though, you should still hit your inject cycles the same as in HotS). It's not necessarily bad, but does not really solve the initial problem.
Conclusion: Terran remains the same; Zerg remains pretty much the same on higher levels, more forgiving on lower levels; Protoss is more messy and nerfed.
I would be OK with a Chrono nerf (don't see why it's needed, though), but it just feels overly complicated. If anything, revert the changes and make it last longer and cost more energy. This would be the best and easiest solution in my opinion.
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What the actual f*ck are they doing?
Staggering. Simply staggering.
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Very good changes.
People should remember that 1) the mule IS nerfed (income wise) and 2) queuing injects is fantastic for zerg.
I wonder why they haven't implemented queuing attack/defense upgrades yet though. Seems like something they would do.
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If MM stays then I only play the campaign.
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I can only speak for zerg here.
Stackable larva injects are sick. pop 6 queens and you have larva for eternity.
Missed a few injects? No Worries, take all your queens and shift span larva inject. Within notime you will have 18 larva on every hatchery.
Ok so i guess I'm exaggerating, but still.
I usually go 4 queens, for bease defence, creap spread and stuff, but now all the energy go inte larva, and drones early on.
I can get my third MUCH faster than normal, and my forth too (at 6 min mark i'm not a very good maro player, plat in beta)
I can max out before the 10 minute mark. I never could do that before.
It feels insane.
One way to cap it is to lets say hatcheries spawn eggsacks every 4 seconds. As long as your on par with injects it will work the hots way, only one inject per hatchery (eggsack). If you miss an inject there will be 2 eggsacks to inject and hence you will be able to recover. Limit the number of eggsacks per hacthery to 4 and the mechanic ass almost identical to the mule mechanic (max enery 200, each mule costs 50 you can recover 4 mules missed).
As for mules, I still think its total idiocrazy tha terran can spawn free workers, and as the only race in the game make a comeback if he have loost all his workers and has not enough money to build new ones. Ofc new mule still allowed that, but no mule is more fair.
How about the ability to outfic CC with a reactor? Double the scv prod, just like on any other building? works almost like chrono and injects for workers? And Also do not give the terran that game winning advantage of get getting free workers.
Thanks for reading.
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On September 18 2015 22:29 Sholip wrote:
Conclusion: Terran remains the same; Zerg remains pretty much the same on higher levels, more forgiving on lower levels; Protoss is more messy and nerfed.
I would be OK with a Chrono nerf (don't see why it's needed, though), but it just feels overly complicated. If anything, revert the changes and make it last longer and cost more energy. This would be the best and easiest solution in my opinion.
Yeah, I don't get it. The new chrono isn't easier to use and it also reduces strategic depth, because you can't bank chrono energy and focus it on upgrades/units. In essence the new chrono is just plain worse than the old one.
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On September 18 2015 18:17 Tefel wrote:
It's already 5 years of my adventure with SC2 and I have very good mechanics (including spawn larva).
When I first saw changes with removing macro mechanics I was opposite because I remember BW times (I played for many years) and it was crucial aspect of the game. Right now I don't see it matters because all units produce on one hotkey. If You want to bring back good mechanics You should start from removing multiple selection instead of auto-cast.
What about auto-cast? Like I said before first of all I was opposite. But when I played more games I realize it's great and gives much more fun. Finally I can completely focus on strategy aspect of the game not only macro mechanics.
I don't know if my skill at auto-spawn larva decreased, like suggested before, but certainly I have more fun with the game itself. I don't have to spend much time in my base, and I can concentrate on strategy, which in RTS game should be a priority. If I want to play the game based on precision I would choose Guitar Hero or TrackMania.
In conclusion I regret that auto-cast has been removed from the game.
Tefel
Agree
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EPT
