EPT[Idea] GEM: New LotV economy model - Page 27
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On July 08 2015 07:13 ZenithM wrote: Man, you're really pessimistic about Blizzard, OtherWorld ;D. I would rather say "realistic", but yeah I can take pessimistic as well d: | ||
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Penev
28536 Posts
On July 08 2015 07:21 OtherWorld wrote: I would rather say "realistic", but yeah I can take pessimistic as well d: Do you still play? | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
Yes (mid-high diamond atm), because HotS is not a bad game per se. It's just not the game that should have been made by the company which made games like BW and WC3, and it's a game that could be much better without redoing everything from scratch. Which is why I'm rather sad to see the direction taken in LotV, because it's pretty much the opposite of what I would consider the good direction, while LotV is their unique shot at making SC2 the game it deserves to be. | ||
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Penev
28536 Posts
On July 08 2015 07:31 OtherWorld wrote: Yes (mid-high diamond atm), because HotS is not a bad game per se. It's just not the game that should have been made by the company which made games like BW and WC3, and it's a game that could be much better without redoing everything from scratch. Which is why I'm rather sad to see the direction taken in LotV, because it's pretty much the opposite of what I would consider the good direction, while LotV is their unique shot at making SC2 the game it deserves to be. I completely agree with you. But I asked because I hope you might be interested to play GEM games.  | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On July 08 2015 07:37 Penev wrote: I completely agree with you. But I asked because I hope you might be interested to play GEM games. Why not, I don't see any downside to it [edit : "it" being the showmatches and not GEM, ofc]. Not right now though. | ||
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BlackLilium
Poland426 Posts
On July 08 2015 06:22 Geiko wrote: -it seems less frustrating to play than lotv. I don't know if it's the psychological effect of still having 8 patches even though they are low rather than 4 but you do feel less pressured to expand. Also less unforgiving if you lose a base. Did ZenithM or LDaVinci told you that? I don't feel "less frustrated" than in LotV, because I never played LotV. I can only imagine that I would be frustrated with LotV more by all those abilities, rather than its economy. | ||
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ChristianS
United States3304 Posts
On July 08 2015 14:31 BlackLilium wrote: Did ZenithM or LDaVinci told you that? I don't feel "less frustrated" than in LotV, because I never played LotV. I can only imagine that I would be frustrated with LotV more by all those abilities, rather than its economy. I assume he means the economy aspects of LotV specifically, as in "the economy downgrade when a base gets low and switches to black minerals felt less punishing than the economy downgrade from a LotV going from 8 minerals to 4." Did you play any games? What were your impressions? | ||
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BlackLilium
Poland426 Posts
On July 08 2015 14:59 ChristianS wrote: I assume he means the economy aspects of LotV specifically, as in "the economy downgrade when a base gets low and switches to black minerals felt less punishing than the economy downgrade from a LotV going from 8 minerals to 4." Did you play any games? What were your impressions? Yes, I understand him the same way. But I didn't feel any less frustrated because I never played LotV. I played a single game against LDaVinci. Since I had an upper hand and was able to establish my expansions while successfully harass or deny those of my opponent, I suppose that he was more frustrated than I was. Denying expos tactic becomes more powerful in GEM and LotV than in HotS. And I have to agree with ZenithM - upon watching the game from other player's perspective it definitely looked more one-sided than when I was playing. | ||
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ChristianS
United States3304 Posts
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BlackLilium
Poland426 Posts
You can find my game here: http://www.twitch.tv/zenithm/c/6935507 courtesy of ZenithM Note however that it is far from high-level. Many things were getting sloppy.... I think we need a higher-caliber players if you really want to properly test GEM. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On July 08 2015 16:28 ChristianS wrote: Interesting. I only caught a little of the stream – did you guys have a sense for where you were equalizing in terms of # of bases? Like when you were denying bases, is that containing him on 2 bases? 3? 4? If denying expos were still significant even when the other player still had >3 mining bases, that'd be an exciting finding on its own. Personally, instinctively I felt really good when I kept my opponent on 3 bases while grabbing a 4th myself, and I felt pressured when I took my own third as my main was already at half black patches. At that point you really feel a slowdown in your econ. And in general I agree with BlackLilium, you just feel really good denying every "fresh" bases constantly, knowing that the other bases your opponent has are most likely being blackened out. In HotS, you would feel like preventing your opponent from grabbing an advantage, in this mod it feels more like sealing the deal yourself, if late in the game you can hold fresh expands while denying his fresh ones. Expanding, in LotV or GEM, may be too big a part of the "stakes". It's really the name of the game. I personally think it's cool, because I like that you're using the whole map as a playground, and not just the first 3-4 bases. It may encourage map makers to diversify the furthest expands on the map, so that the game changes even more as time passes. | ||
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Penev
28536 Posts
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Geiko
France2034 Posts
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BlackLilium
Poland426 Posts
 ... provided I don't get crushed because of other things... skill difference, new units, etc... | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On July 09 2015 05:21 BlackLilium wrote: I just got an invite to LotV beta... so I will be able to evaluate the economy system first-hand ... provided I don't get crushed because of other things... skill difference, new units, etc... Man, that's so cool, congrats. Do you play ladder regularly? I wonder if that's still a factor. I really would like to play the beta, but I can't really be bothered laddering in HotS :/. Well, it's logical that they don't want to invite inactive players. | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On July 09 2015 05:56 ZenithM wrote: Man, that's so cool, congrats. Do you play ladder regularly? I wonder if that's still a factor. I really would like to play the beta, but I can't really be bothered laddering in HotS :/. Well, it's logical that they don't want to invite inactive players. I think it has to do with activity, yeah. I was diamond when I went inactive (August 2014), so in the top 20% range they'd later use, and once I started laddering again (June 2015) I got the beta in like one week. | ||
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BlackLilium
Poland426 Posts
My editor activity and the amount of published files spiked recently with my "Starcraft Improved", but I doubt they look at that factor. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
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Geiko
France2034 Posts
Anyways, couple of weeks later they announces that top 20% mmr in season 1 would get beta access, so I'm pretty lucky there. I also got my second key from the TL giveaway last week so I can play with my friends. (Why didn't you ask for one Zennith ?) | ||
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