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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
If i were to assume the bad, i'd say it's the second band aid to make mech functional, after the can do everything Cyclone. No matter what, i like the unit for it's anti air because i fucking hate the supply heavy, expensive, slow building Thor as the only anti Muta option for mech. How this piss of crap survived til this day in SC2 i can't understand..then again, we still have the Colossus to. | ||
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Wrath
3174 Posts
In brood war you could have send 6-8 Tanks with 10 vaulters to destroy a Protoss expand and die after doing a fine trade or return without much loses. In StarCraft II, you can't even hope to send 12 Tanks with 12 Hellbats alone and expect to accomplish anything. I started to think they gave up on Mech as LOTV is focused on action pack and mobility. They will focus on bio and drop mech since it is about positional play. | ||
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Athenau
569 Posts
Sadly... They are testing weaker version of tanks now just to keep it balanced for the sake of the siege tank drop. Like the tanks were not weak enough already. Like we see them in matches other than TvT or TvZ mech that usually ends with Raven Thor Hellbat... No they aren't. They're testing a weaker version of the tank drop, not weaker tanks. And they haven't even decided if the current version is too strong. | ||
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jinjin5000
United States1385 Posts
On June 30 2015 07:22 Athenau wrote: No they aren't. They're testing a weaker version of the tank drop, not weaker tanks. And they haven't even decided if the current version is too strong. I believe they are working on either delay before siege tank can fire or just plain unsieged tank when it drops. | ||
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jinjin5000
United States1385 Posts
Why not buff the tank damage but make you require researching siege mode upgrade in LotV? Maybe lower the cooldown of attack in turn Right now, tank suffers from critical number syndrome where it is only good when it hits critical number and behind a large amount of buffer. Its more of a supporting unit than the main because of its cooldown dps and splash that makes it infinitely better when it is allowed to shoot for long peroid of time- so in a deathball. | ||
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Neutrino_
27 Posts
Given that tanks are already excellent in good numbers I see no way that the community or Blizzard would accept buffing their damage and reducing the cooldown. Giving them a bit more hp though in return for reduced splash damage sounds like a win win as then they'll also do less damage to your own front line units. | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
- Banshees are no longer light armor (no attribute). Has no effect in TvZ, barely affects TvT, (In LotV we have liberators and Cyclones) makes Banshees far more viable in TvP (Phoenixes would not hardcounter them). - Increase starport build time by 10s. -Decrease banshee build time to 45s. - This keeps 1-1-1 openers as strong as they are; banshees hit almost at the same timing (5s earlier on paper, on practice it should be around 3s) - makes mine drops/Hellion- Hellbat drops/MMM timings hit 10s later. - The time reduction on production makes banshees a more core unit since it can be produced as fast as tanks. | ||
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jinjin5000
United States1385 Posts
On July 02 2015 20:10 JCoto wrote: I also have an idea about banshees: - Banshees are no longer light armor (no attribute). Has no effect in TvZ, barely affects TvT, makes Banshees far more viable in TvP (Phoenixes would not hardcounter them). - Increase starport build time by 10s. -Decrease banshee build time to 45s. - This keeps 1-1-1 openers as strong as they are; banshees hit almost at the same timing (5s earlier on paper, on practice it should be around 3s) - makes mine drops/Hellion- Hellbat drops/MMM timings hit 10s later. - The time reduction on production makes banshees a more core unit since it can be produced as fast as tanks. Air weapon/armor are separated in lotv though | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On July 02 2015 20:13 jinjin5000 wrote: Air weapon/armor are separated in lotv though The fact that they are separed doesn't change that Banshees and/or their productive strength can be improved to fit more a core role. Sadly, Banshees in SC2 have been mostly played as harrassers/base snipers, but they have a very decent DPS and they could fit a very strong position if their production were more viable. One of the issues of Mech is that production is relatively slow (tech lab units) and facilities are expensive, compared to the macroboosted Zerg/Protoss/Terran bio production. I also think it is worth testing to have banshees less hardcountered by Phoenixes with the light attribute removed. Phoenixes move way faster than Banshees and also shoot while moving, so utility-wise, Phoenixes already counter Banshees. The bonus damage from +light simply makes Banshees x2 weaker vs Phoenixes. It's redundant countering. | ||
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Neutrino_
27 Posts
Recall how now that Swarm Hosts have been nerfed now the Colossus is less seen in PvZ, this is a good example of how units affect each other and how units can be relatively buffed or nerfed by adjusting related units. Another example would be how a nerf to Marauders could be considered a buff to Ultralisks. There is one unit whose current use in mech armies strikes me as imbalanced. The Raven. It's not that there is any obvious stat or ability it has that jumps out as being suspect, the thing that makes me wonder about its current form is purely the amount of them we see made. When I see a late game mech army consisting of 4 Thors, 4 siege tanks and 30 Ravens the sheer number of them alone makes me suspect that something is out of kilter. Its interaction with Infestors also seems really undesirable. One of the most pointless looking engagements in SCII from a spectator perspective is seeing a blob of Infestors spewing infested Terrans and another blob of Ravens culling the infested Terrans by spamming Auto Turrets. One of the GSL or WCS matches had this recently, it went on for a good 10-15 minutes and was just completely pointless, the caster (I think it was Rotterdamn) described it as 'sweeping up leaves on a windy day' (meaning a completely pointless task). I don't have a nice well though-out solution to propose though. Amongst the nebulous thoughts running around in my brain I have a niggling envy of how many disable/crowd control casters Zerg (and to some extent Protoss) have, and how little recourse Terran has to having key units like Thors and BC abducted into the Zerg army. So one idea I have would be that I'd like the Terran to get back the Defensive Matrix ability. A castable ability that puts a temporary shield buffer on any single unit. Imo replacing the Raven Auto Turret ability with Defensive Matrix would be a decent improvement for the following reasons:
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Lexender
Mexico2623 Posts
On June 30 2015 05:17 Sapphire.lux wrote: If i wanted to assume the good, i'd say that the Liberator's anti ground role is to give Bio a siege option that has better mobility then a Tank and can keep up with the bio army. If i were to assume the bad, i'd say it's the second band aid to make mech functional, after the can do everything Cyclone. No matter what, i like the unit for it's anti air because i fucking hate the supply heavy, expensive, slow building Thor as the only anti Muta option for mech. How this piss of crap survived til this day in SC2 i can't understand..then again, we still have the Colossus to. I think Blizzard doesn't want mech to be viable as-is, right now the core mech army is very weak in the LotV enviroment compared to the bio army, however both Factory units and starport units are still strong, this added with the Split upgrades makes me think that Blizzard doesn't want traditional mech to be viable option, but rather to mech bio-mech or bio-air hybrids to be the go to compositions, units like the liberator and the tank drop make more sense for a bio composition, also this would fit with Blizzards desire to make everything FASTER FASTER FASTER as people has pointed before, not to mention there hasn't been any comments on positional play from Blizzard. As a mech player this saddens me, but I guess mech just doesn't fits into Blizzards view of how LotV should be played. | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
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EleanorRIgby
Canada3923 Posts
On June 29 2015 23:39 Hider wrote: I played it a bit when it was just released, and I really didn't like that it had a long siege/unsiege duration. First off, it was actually difficult to know which Liberators were sieged and which weren't (in larger battles this can be hard to see when you have multiple Liberators). If your army is fighting both Roaches and Mutalisks, and you are sieged up to deal with Roaches, but then Mutalisks attacks you, you can't react by unsieging and start attacking the mutalisks. As a consequence it becomes a prebattle positional unit only, which honestly overlaps too much with the siege tank. I think it would be a ton more fun if you had to actively manage siege/unsiege during engagements. Secondly, its AA-attack also suffers from the 0.167 damage point and its basically amovish. Thirdly, the long siege duration makes it especially ackward to use on a unit that only can attack once enemy units are inside the circle. The Siege Tank feels a bit more natural since it can attack everything within 2 and 13 range. It would make a trillion time more sense if it could siege instantly (and unsiege would take 4 seconds), vice versa or perhaps both siege/unsige were much faster. Actually I was kinda hyped for this unit as it seemed like it could change how terran would play, but after having played with it, I don't feel like touching it again. yea the ag attack looks really strong but good players can just out maneuver you and while you are spending all your time trying to siege up at the right spots they are getting ready to flank you. Really sucks open map they only really work if you can pin down your opponent in some kind of corner of the map or there natural | ||
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Wrath
3174 Posts
I'm really scared for the way Blizzard going with mech. | ||
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crown77
United States157 Posts
There are so many passionate people in this community that want nothing more than to see this game reach every inch of its potential. Take a look back at the start of the beta. Blizzard was making bold moves. Each patch made the game more fun and intricate. All of a sudden the shallow skill ceiling we suffered through with HOTS grew exponentially. This happened in such a short period of time thanks to rapid unique patches. These changes were less about numbers and more about what a player could do mechanically. It reminded us of a game we played that was balanced because of an "attacker vs. defender" dynamic. A phenomenon that exists in few other games. The broad stroke changes we enjoyed early on are starting to turn into specific changes to specific units. The plus or minus five second bunker build time is the way HOTS was balanced. This is NOT a healthy or long lasting way to give stability to a strategy game. TL writers explain the DH is an example of a solution to the three base cap. It rewards zergs for out expanding against a turtle player. It allows a more swarm style of play earlier on. Less drones are required which frees up food for low tier high volume armies. Protoss players may adopt a similar style against mech players. Unfortunately the proposed economy changes were never realized. "We may have decided internally that the economy change will not go through." This does not qualify as adequate or objective play testing. The so called fan made Liberator is not a healthy addition to this game. Another point and click flyer is the last thing the community wanted. We need to get away from point and click auto casters. Hard counters are for Heath Stone. This community is different. It wants balance through mechanics, a skyscraper tall skill ceiling, and balance through attack/defender dynamics. It is time to stop polishing that statue and break out the chisel. | ||
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cordellb
United States19 Posts
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Wrath
3174 Posts
Cyclones are being made mainly AG and have weaker AA... Not good. Nothing on Tanks or Thors... Not good. I guess the only thing we can do is wait... Maybe those will get addressed after putting Cyclone changes online. | ||
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jinjin5000
United States1385 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
I'm a bit more cautious on the liberator that is indeed interesting, though its AG DPS feels a bit too high. | ||
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dust7
199 Posts
I would like to try out the following changes to mech: Swap supply of liberator and tank. Increase siege and unsiege time of the liberator. It is about space control, so you should get punished for controlling the wrong space. Give tank back its old damage. Tanks picked up by medivacs get dropped unsieged. Swap health of cyclone and tank. Nerf the cyclone ground attack by changing it to something ok-ish similar to the viking ground attack. Give cyclone AA at armory tech. Remove bio tag from hellbats. Now you have mech centered around a strong tank with helpful utility units that help your composition but should not be massed unless in certain situations. | ||
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