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On June 22 2015 12:31 Lexender wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2015 07:33 ZergLingShepherd1 wrote:
Its really dumb logic here and mainly why they dont work right now in any compositions.
No support unit should battle for front space on main lines.
You mean like sentries and ghosts?
No, i already explained why those units can protect themselfs, are small enough to be microed can use FF etc.
On June 22 2015 14:27 ETisME wrote:
I do agree that ravager needs a look at. It is too easily clumped and blocked due to its fat model size and the horrible range.
But to be honest, I don't know how it can be improved as well, it's in such an awkward position
Like i said 6 range would make it a support unit.
Also the models could be a bit smaller.
The price, at least in gas should be lowered since they arent greater the roaches and should never be, so their price should not be this expensive.
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Completely agree on the range issue. At this point, it's a redundant unit. But you should post on Bnet forums instead, you'll have more chance of catching Blizz's attention than here
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Ok I behaved like an asshole sorry about that.
However I disagree in big part, Ravagers, shouldn't be used as damage dealers, thats what roaches and hydras are for, I just think that the spell should be stronger, I'm not sure what is it that it would take for that but I don't think improving their attack is the solution.
Ravagers should be support units not stronger roaches.
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On June 22 2015 23:13 Lexender wrote:
Ok I behaved like an asshole sorry about that.
However I disagree in big part, Ravagers, shouldn't be used as damage dealers, thats what roaches and hydras are for, I just think that the spell should be stronger, I'm not sure what is it that it would take for that but I don't think improving their attack is the solution.
Ravagers should be support units not stronger roaches.
Well there is another idea that has some support from the community.
That is to remove the attack of the ravager completely and make the corrosive bile stronger, more AoE and Range for the skill shot and faster landing hits + a buff to health.
That would make the unit a support artillery unit.
I do agree that they should not be better then roaches, but they should also be useful for their cost otherwise people will make just more roaches and never ravagers like we are seeing in the beta.
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Ravagers were nerfed because they were too strong. Lurkers were amusingly buffed before that nerf because ravagers were too strong and are along the roach/hydra tech path. Ravagers are there as a potential balance knob to turn, but at this point they don't need a buff for the sake of a buff.
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On June 22 2015 22:54 parkufarku wrote:
Completely agree on the range issue. At this point, it's a redundant unit. But you should post on Bnet forums instead, you'll have more chance of catching Blizz's attention than here
I posted there to, but to many trolls on Bnet, here at least there are some people with arguments or at least a discussion.
On June 23 2015 00:56 TheWinks wrote:
Ravagers were nerfed because they were too strong. Lurkers were amusingly buffed before that nerf because ravagers were too strong and are along the roach/hydra tech path. Ravagers are there as a potential balance knob to turn, but at this point they don't need a buff for the sake of a buff.
I agree that they where too strong but they are now overnerfed. If you watched a minimum of LotV tournaments you would know that.
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On June 23 2015 01:33 ZergLingShepherd1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2015 22:54 parkufarku wrote:
Completely agree on the range issue. At this point, it's a redundant unit. But you should post on Bnet forums instead, you'll have more chance of catching Blizz's attention than here I posted there to, but to many trolls on Bnet, here at least there are some people with arguments or at least a discussion. Show nested quote +On June 23 2015 00:56 TheWinks wrote:
Ravagers were nerfed because they were too strong. Lurkers were amusingly buffed before that nerf because ravagers were too strong and are along the roach/hydra tech path. Ravagers are there as a potential balance knob to turn, but at this point they don't need a buff for the sake of a buff. I agree that they where too strong but they are now overnerfed. If you watched a minimum of LotV tournaments you would know that.
And now you're asking for +50% in range AND a price decrease ? I know LotV is here to experiment big changes, but I'm not sure you realise what you're really asking for here.
Regarding your argument that they are only used in ZvZ: have you seen ghost outside of lategame TvP ? Or reapers used past the 8th minute mark in any matchup ? Some units are niche units, and there's nothing wrong with that. You can't expect to have all units viable during the whole game in all matchups...
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On June 24 2015 22:04 LoneYoShi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2015 01:33 ZergLingShepherd1 wrote:On June 22 2015 22:54 parkufarku wrote:
Completely agree on the range issue. At this point, it's a redundant unit. But you should post on Bnet forums instead, you'll have more chance of catching Blizz's attention than here I posted there to, but to many trolls on Bnet, here at least there are some people with arguments or at least a discussion. On June 23 2015 00:56 TheWinks wrote:
Ravagers were nerfed because they were too strong. Lurkers were amusingly buffed before that nerf because ravagers were too strong and are along the roach/hydra tech path. Ravagers are there as a potential balance knob to turn, but at this point they don't need a buff for the sake of a buff. I agree that they where too strong but they are now overnerfed. If you watched a minimum of LotV tournaments you would know that. And now you're asking for +50% in range AND a price decrease ? I know LotV is here to experiment big changes, but I'm not sure you realise what you're really asking for here. Regarding your argument that they are only used in ZvZ: have you seen ghost outside of lategame TvP ? Or reapers used past the 8th minute mark in any matchup ? Some units are niche units, and there's nothing wrong with that. You can't expect to have all units viable during the whole game in all matchups...
Im asking for the unit to become a support unit as it was designed, 6 range allows for that, right now its a main unit with a support ability that cant be used in any unit compostions.
Ghost is a tier 3 unit not 1 tier unit as Ravager, it will be used vs High Armor units like Ultralisk/Immortals and EMP for HT
There is not a single unit that can do the same agreesion as the Reaper in the early game from the Terran side, its not the same thing when it comes to roaches and ravagers.
And that is the problem this unit has no role... like i said its used just in ZvZ and his role was supposed to be against FF + zoning and supporting, but its not used because its to expensive, and Roaches with tunelling claws >>> Ravagers and after early game, Lurkers > Ravagers
It has no place for now, not even as a niche unit.
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If you buff it's range that's a buff in DPS in fights, because it has to move around less and it's a buff to it's survivability while shooting. This sounds like a combat buff to me, rather than a buff in it's supporting role.
If you want to give a buff to the units supporting role=the ability, you must increase the strength of said ability.
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I'd say buff the autoattack range, decrease the damage by a lot, and then compensate by buffing corrosive bile. Focus the design on the utility of corrosive bile and less on its direct combat stats. The autoattack should just help in positioning in combat and being useful in a pinch, not as a direct upgrade over the Roach attack.
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On June 25 2015 00:06 ejozl wrote:
If you buff it's range that's a buff in DPS in fights, because it has to move around less and it's a buff to it's survivability while shooting. This sounds like a combat buff to me, rather than a buff in it's supporting role.
If you want to give a buff to the units supporting role=the ability, you must increase the strength of said ability.
You can nerf the damege to compensate, but at least now they can be used in compostion and do their support role, while not dying in the main line.
Also im all for even removing the attack as long asthe ability is stonger and has a better range faster landing and more AoE, in order to use it as a support unit.
Something like artillery units.
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EPT
