| Forum Index > Legacy of the Void |
Thanks to Reddit sleuths, everyone can try the LotV test maps by following instructions here. Note: This is not a beta key, it is simply access to Vs. AI and a Unit Tester. I have no idea how cool with this Blizzard is or is not, use at your own risk. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2665 Posts
On April 01 2015 02:04 Hider wrote: Conceptwise yes, but the current implementation doesn't seem that good, and Blizzard has a very poor trackrecord when it comes to figuring out proper stats for units. Well thats kind of what betas are for, no? | ||
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excitedBear
Austria120 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On April 01 2015 02:04 Hider wrote: Conceptwise yes, but the current implementation doesn't seem that good, and Blizzard has a very poor trackrecord when it comes to figuring out proper stats for units. Conceptwise? How so? The only "concept" which is reasonable is to give zerg a way to deal with forcefields and maybe make roaches more useful in the lategame. The ravager is basically a "better" roach statswise, which is highly unoriginal. The spell is spamable (cooldown wise) and what's even worse, it's spamable supply wise (you can get a huge amount of ravagers) I don't see how this is good for the game at all :/ | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
The spell is spamable (cooldown wise) and what's even worse, it's spamable supply wise (you can get a huge amount of ravagers) I don't see how this is good for the game at all :/ Ravager is 3 supply, armored and have less health than roach but more DPS. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9448 Posts
And that's why I wrote Blizzard has a poor trackrecord of getting the stats right. Yes, even if there is a beta they are unlikely to turn something that mediocore into something that is really awesome. Just look at the examples from HOTS; - Oracle could have had a moving shot and be super awesome, but Blizzard wanted it to give it 0 countermicro and insane DPS vs light. Noone enjoyed this unit during LOTV-beta either. - Swarm Host: Yes Zerg did need a positional unit, just hopeless implementation. - Viper: Yes Zerg did need a tier 3 spellcaster that could break defensive positions. But the implementation was really bad. - Hellbat: Yes transforming between Hellions and Hellbats is an awesome idea. But you could have had an awesome scenario where you - during engagement - would transformation them back and fourth. This could have made mech so much more microintensive. Instead, the transformation thing became this kinda brain-dead/microless thing. So many units that could have been super awesome in Sc2, but Blizzard never really tweaked the numbers to optimize micro interactions. As long as the Ravager works decently atm., it's unlikely to be changed any further. | ||
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SNSeigifried
United States1640 Posts
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Aocowns
Norway6070 Posts
On April 01 2015 02:10 The_Red_Viper wrote: Conceptwise? How so? The only "concept" which is reasonable is to give zerg a way to deal with forcefields and maybe make roaches more useful in the lategame. The ravager is basically a "better" roach statswise, which is highly unoriginal. The spell is spamable (cooldown wise) and what's even worse, it's spamable supply wise (you can get a huge amount of ravagers) I don't see how this is good for the game at all :/ i think what someone said earlier about making roach wars a lot more dynamic as some real legitimacy.. assuming roach vs roach is still gonna be the meta for ZvZ. or who knows, it could just make it gay as fuck where if you move your roaches too much while dodging you give up too many attacks and you just get run over either way | ||
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Clonester
Germany2808 Posts
Or what do I download right at the moment? | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
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DreamOen
Spain1400 Posts
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Wormi
Germany181 Posts
On April 01 2015 02:14 Clonester wrote: Was Patch 2.1.9 700mb big? Or what do I download right at the moment? yes, about 750. | ||
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MrMatt
Canada225 Posts
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spoonmaster
United States347 Posts
On April 01 2015 02:15 DreamOen wrote: How do I know if I have access to the beta if they dont send emails?. It'll show up on your b.net account and in your b.net app. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9448 Posts
On April 01 2015 02:10 The_Red_Viper wrote: Conceptwise? How so? The only "concept" which is reasonable is to give zerg a way to deal with forcefields and maybe make roaches more useful in the lategame. The ravager is basically a "better" roach statswise, which is highly unoriginal. The spell is spamable (cooldown wise) and what's even worse, it's spamable supply wise (you can get a huge amount of ravagers) I don't see how this is good for the game at all :/ Concept = Giving a skillshot that can break Forcefields to an upgraded Roach --> Adds more micro for both players. Implementation = Spamable --> Skillshots should be more about the predicting, predicision and dodging. Not about spamming as many buttons as fast as possible. Blizzard should learn from LOL here. Riot are masters are getting the implementation right (over time at least), while Blizzard spends the majority of their ressources on working on the concept, and afterwards calls it a day. | ||
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SuperYo1000
United States880 Posts
I know what the people want :D | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On April 01 2015 02:20 Hider wrote: Concept = The skillshot --> Adds more micro for both players. Implementation = It's a better Roach/spamable The spamable aspect is also a conceptional problem. Blizzard decided to give an "amove" army unit a skillshot which does aoe dmg as well. That's kinda like if they decided to give the same spell to the hydralisk (yes hydralisks are a higher tier and come later), but my point is: You basically merge an army unit with a spellcaster this way, which is bad imo. I also don't think you should focus on skillshots too much either, this stuff is extremely gimmicky in a rts focused on macro and multitasking | ||
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TelecoM
United States10890 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9448 Posts
The spamable aspect is also a conceptional problem. So I think what you call conceptional here is what I would categorize as an interaction-issue. I see it this way. First you have conceptional = The drawing board idea. Then you have interactions = How both players micro with and against the unit. Then you have balance = Is it OP/UP? But both balance and interactions are numbers issues (while concepts aren't). Here you can tweak the stats a bit to get much better interactions. For instance, double the CD and increase the damage on the skillshot to improve the interaction. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On April 01 2015 02:28 Hider wrote: No because this is very easily changed though. You can tweak the stats a bit. Double the CD and increase damage as a consequence. This purely a numbers issue. I don't talk about the cooldown, i speak about giving this spell to an unit which can be massed to some extent (it still can fight, it's no "problem" if the spell itself won't hit 100%) | ||
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Hider
Denmark9448 Posts
I don't speak about the cooldown, i speak about giving this spell to an unit which can be massed to some extent (it still can fight, it's no "problem" if the spell itself won't hit 100%) First of all, this is only an issue if it turns out it optimal to mass it, which very well might not be the case (maybe having no more than 7-8 in a maxed out army turns out to be optimal - it is 3 supply afterall). Secondly, making this non massable is very easily fixed by tweaking the stats of the unit. It doesn't have to be a better Roach, it could be weaker in some regards. The concept here isn't that it should have the same stats as the Roach, but rather that it has a skillshot that can break Forcefields. | ||
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EPT
