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Thanks to Reddit sleuths, everyone can try the LotV test maps by following instructions here. Note: This is not a beta key, it is simply access to Vs. AI and a Unit Tester. I have no idea how cool with this Blizzard is or is not, use at your own risk. |
China6331 Posts
On April 01 2015 16:16 TT1 wrote:
why were so many of protoss's hots mechanics nerfed in lotv? warpins take forever now and u cant blink stalkers properly unless theyre INSIDE blink range. on top of that they nerfed the mothership and collosus and left all the other races untouched, why? disruptors are awesome but they overlap with collos and adepts require alot of tweaking, theyre useless past the early game (theyre basically a glorified reaper right now).
Wat that's a huge nerf actually.
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
I don't understand what's changed?
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On April 01 2015 16:49 Cyro wrote:
I don't understand what's changed?
u cant blink outside of blink range 
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China6331 Posts
On April 01 2015 16:49 Cyro wrote:
I don't understand what's changed?
My understanding is that if you clicked blink's target out of its range it won't work.
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Would that just be a bug in the beta or an intended change? That sounds awful 
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On April 01 2015 14:44 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2015 14:43 Deathstar wrote:On April 01 2015 14:37 shockaslim wrote:On April 01 2015 14:20 Deathstar wrote:avilo got fucked over I mean, you could really say that anyone that didn't get the beta got fucked over... avilo has 1400+ viewers with a wallpaper screen. I thought blizzard was flagging personalities? apart from destiny, avilo has been a powerhouse of a streamer for sc2 for a long time. Me not getting into the beta is different from avilo not getting into the beta. What's even more weird is that streamers who are fairly irrelevant somehow got into the beta... He has so many viewers because he was linked on Destiny's stream. Before that he had a couple hundred.
he normally sits around 800-1000. Like him or not, he has been the most consistant streamer for sc2 for ages now
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On April 01 2015 17:08 gDPhantom wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2015 14:44 KeksX wrote:On April 01 2015 14:43 Deathstar wrote:On April 01 2015 14:37 shockaslim wrote:On April 01 2015 14:20 Deathstar wrote:avilo got fucked over I mean, you could really say that anyone that didn't get the beta got fucked over... avilo has 1400+ viewers with a wallpaper screen. I thought blizzard was flagging personalities? apart from destiny, avilo has been a powerhouse of a streamer for sc2 for a long time. Me not getting into the beta is different from avilo not getting into the beta. What's even more weird is that streamers who are fairly irrelevant somehow got into the beta... He has so many viewers because he was linked on Destiny's stream. Before that he had a couple hundred. he normally sits around 800-1000. Like him or not, he has been the most consistant streamer for sc2 for ages now
As I said, thats true and all. But there are many other consistent streamers who didn't get in as well.
I'm not saying Avilo shouldn't get an invite, he totally should, I'm just saying it's not "Blizz fucking over Avilo", they did that to many deserving access.
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every protoss unit has an ability that requires a seperate hotkey , why cant we just have an a movey unit like the other races? do we really have to hotkey every fucking type of unit separately? sentries have guardian shield/ff, hts have storm, disruptors have their explosion thingy (and theyre most likely gonna replace the colossus in most p comps), phoenixs have disruption beam, voids have prismatic alignment and stalkers have blink.. hard life :[
the immortal nerf hurts a shitton vs zerg, protoss doesnt really have an answer to roachs/ravagers
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On April 01 2015 17:14 TT1 wrote:every protoss unit has an ability that requires a seperate hotkey , why cant we just have an a movey unit like the other races? do we really have to hotkey every fucking type of unit separately? sentries have guardian shield/ff, hts have storm, disruptors have their explosion thingy (and theyre most likely gonna replace the collosus in most p comps), phoenixs have disruption beam, voids have prismatic alignment and stalkers have blink.. hard life :[
Your last few posts... have been what I've been asking myself forever... Wait a second and David Kim will pop in, again, to talk about how Protoss is too easy to micro, while saying nothing about Zerg other than Swam hosts are great units and Zerg UP. My only interest atm is to watch things burn.
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Italy12246 Posts
Also the economy changes are insane. Zerg maxes out a couple of minutes after warpgates is done...
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@TT1: Don't you think it's good that theyre rewarding micro so heavily? I mean as a zerg player I'm glad I finally get units with more abilities.
Then again I can understand that it's probably too much at this point, but just getting an a move unit feels boring doesn't it?
On April 01 2015 17:16 Teoita wrote:
Also the economy changes are insane. Zerg maxes out a couple of minutes after warpgates is done...
Thats what surprises me the most, they really have to adjust the cost of some things.
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On April 01 2015 17:14 TT1 wrote:every protoss unit has an ability that requires a seperate hotkey , why cant we just have an a movey unit like the other races? do we really have to hotkey every fucking type of unit separately? sentries have guardian shield/ff, hts have storm, disruptors have their explosion thingy (and theyre most likely gonna replace the collos in most p comps), phoenixs have disruption beam, voids have prismatic alignment and stalkers have blink.. hard life :[ the immortal nerf hurts a shitton vs zerg, protoss doesnt really have an answer to roachs/ravagers
blizzard's conception of "exciting micro". Give everything a button that you have to press.
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the immortal nerf hurts a shitton vs zerg, protoss doesnt really have an answer to roachs/ravagers
Yeh, I wondered what the theoretical solution was here as well. Toss previously relied on forcefields, and Immortals are probably slightly better vs lower-damage units now but slightly worse vs armored units. Especially given that you need to take bases faster, forces the immobile race (protoss) to take a higher risk earlier in the game.
A potential solution is to put the Roach at 1 supply and weaken its core stats noticeably in order to give them more late game utility while making them weaker in the late game.
@TT1: Don't you think it's good that theyre rewarding micro so heavily? I mean as a zerg player I'm glad I finally get units with more abilities.
Pressing a button has never been fun in it self. That's unfortunately what you do with VRs and Immortals. At least w/ Stim, you now gain proper mobility to move your units around during an engagement.
The point here is that abilities are great when they reward some type of micro - outside of pressing the button to active the ability - for that reason I love the Disruptor and Ravager while Immortal seems as bland as ever.
If the pathing etc is perfect there's little micro outside of abilities, though. You don't have to correct bad pathing or stupid AI most of the time. Prepositioning + amove is sufficient for most ability-less units.
I don't agree that pathing is the main issue here. In my opinion, most units simply react too slowly too be rewarded for moving around.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/481523-the-effects-of-damage-point-on-unit-interaction
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On April 01 2015 17:19 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2015 17:14 TT1 wrote:every protoss unit has an ability that requires a seperate hotkey , why cant we just have an a movey unit like the other races? do we really have to hotkey every fucking type of unit separately? sentries have guardian shield/ff, hts have storm, disruptors have their explosion thingy (and theyre most likely gonna replace the collos in most p comps), phoenixs have disruption beam, voids have prismatic alignment and stalkers have blink.. hard life :[ the immortal nerf hurts a shitton vs zerg, protoss doesnt really have an answer to roachs/ravagers blizzard's conception of "exciting micro". Give everything a button that you have to press.
If the pathing etc is perfect there's little micro outside of abilities, though. You don't have to correct bad pathing or stupid AI most of the time. Prepositioning + amove is sufficient for most ability-less units.
^@Hider:
Good points. They really should address that instead of adding these activate-abilities.
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
On April 01 2015 17:20 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2015 17:19 Big J wrote:On April 01 2015 17:14 TT1 wrote:every protoss unit has an ability that requires a seperate hotkey , why cant we just have an a movey unit like the other races? do we really have to hotkey every fucking type of unit separately? sentries have guardian shield/ff, hts have storm, disruptors have their explosion thingy (and theyre most likely gonna replace the collos in most p comps), phoenixs have disruption beam, voids have prismatic alignment and stalkers have blink.. hard life :[ the immortal nerf hurts a shitton vs zerg, protoss doesnt really have an answer to roachs/ravagers blizzard's conception of "exciting micro". Give everything a button that you have to press. If the pathing etc is perfect there's little micro outside of abilities, though. You don't have to correct bad pathing or stupid AI most of the time. Prepositioning + amove is sufficient for most ability-less units.
Marines are one of the most micro'd units, particularly with stim - yet they don't have an ability outside of that stimpack
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Ok, so tell me: did I fake this one?
EDIT: hang on; that's the one I uploaded last time, so the answer was 'yes'.
Anyone here ever see "The Dream Team"? High five!
Let's try that again.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NzPs4Qc.png)
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On April 01 2015 17:23 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2015 17:20 KeksX wrote:On April 01 2015 17:19 Big J wrote:On April 01 2015 17:14 TT1 wrote:every protoss unit has an ability that requires a seperate hotkey , why cant we just have an a movey unit like the other races? do we really have to hotkey every fucking type of unit separately? sentries have guardian shield/ff, hts have storm, disruptors have their explosion thingy (and theyre most likely gonna replace the collos in most p comps), phoenixs have disruption beam, voids have prismatic alignment and stalkers have blink.. hard life :[ the immortal nerf hurts a shitton vs zerg, protoss doesnt really have an answer to roachs/ravagers blizzard's conception of "exciting micro". Give everything a button that you have to press. If the pathing etc is perfect there's little micro outside of abilities, though. You don't have to correct bad pathing or stupid AI most of the time. Prepositioning + amove is sufficient for most ability-less units. Marines are one of the most micro'd units, particularly with stim - yet they don't have an ability outside of that stimpack
True but Marines also have an ability that you're using most of the time when you're microing them.
The problem with abilities is that when you add an ability that has no advantage of NOT using it. I.e. that Void Ray ability - there's no time where you'd say "Oh I shouldn't use that now" except for when there's no target.
Apart from that it's always good. But with Marines, you really have to think about when to use Stim and when to save the HP, even if you have a proper target.
Quoted from below:
On April 01 2015 17:25 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2015 17:20 KeksX wrote:On April 01 2015 17:19 Big J wrote:On April 01 2015 17:14 TT1 wrote:every protoss unit has an ability that requires a seperate hotkey , why cant we just have an a movey unit like the other races? do we really have to hotkey every fucking type of unit separately? sentries have guardian shield/ff, hts have storm, disruptors have their explosion thingy (and theyre most likely gonna replace the collos in most p comps), phoenixs have disruption beam, voids have prismatic alignment and stalkers have blink.. hard life :[ the immortal nerf hurts a shitton vs zerg, protoss doesnt really have an answer to roachs/ravagers blizzard's conception of "exciting micro". Give everything a button that you have to press. If the pathing etc is perfect there's little micro outside of abilities, though. You don't have to correct bad pathing or stupid AI most of the time. Prepositioning + amove is sufficient for most ability-less units. kiting, splitting, surrounding for units without buttons. Autocast abilities (that you can't turn off) that your opponent wants to bait and you need to countermicro his baits by not letting your unit attack. interesting forms of attack (e.g. hellion, lurker) that make your unit positioning matter a lot Basically lots of movement-based micro with the occasional button, instead of button-ability spamming. btw, the pathing is far from perfect. It's just not buggy.
Well sure but technically, you don't lose that micro potential by having an ability. As pointed out in the other posts, I agree that ability spamming is not the solution, though
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On April 01 2015 17:20 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2015 17:19 Big J wrote:On April 01 2015 17:14 TT1 wrote:every protoss unit has an ability that requires a seperate hotkey , why cant we just have an a movey unit like the other races? do we really have to hotkey every fucking type of unit separately? sentries have guardian shield/ff, hts have storm, disruptors have their explosion thingy (and theyre most likely gonna replace the collos in most p comps), phoenixs have disruption beam, voids have prismatic alignment and stalkers have blink.. hard life :[ the immortal nerf hurts a shitton vs zerg, protoss doesnt really have an answer to roachs/ravagers blizzard's conception of "exciting micro". Give everything a button that you have to press. If the pathing etc is perfect there's little micro outside of abilities, though. You don't have to correct bad pathing or stupid AI most of the time. Prepositioning + amove is sufficient for most ability-less units.
kiting, splitting, surrounding for units without buttons.
Autocast abilities (that you can't turn off) that your opponent wants to bait and you need to countermicro his baits by not letting your unit attack.
interesting forms of attack (e.g. hellion, lurker) that make your unit positioning matter a lot
Basically lots of movement-based micro with the occasional button, instead of button-ability spamming.
btw, the pathing is far from perfect. It's just not buggy.
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On April 01 2015 17:19 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2015 17:14 TT1 wrote:every protoss unit has an ability that requires a seperate hotkey , why cant we just have an a movey unit like the other races? do we really have to hotkey every fucking type of unit separately? sentries have guardian shield/ff, hts have storm, disruptors have their explosion thingy (and theyre most likely gonna replace the collos in most p comps), phoenixs have disruption beam, voids have prismatic alignment and stalkers have blink.. hard life :[ the immortal nerf hurts a shitton vs zerg, protoss doesnt really have an answer to roachs/ravagers blizzard's conception of "exciting micro". Give everything a button that you have to press.
thats fine as long as its the same for every race, which it isnt. terran and zerg dont have to hotkey separate groups of units nearly as much as we do.
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The problem with abilities is that when you add an ability that has no advantage of NOT using it. I.e. that Void Ray ability - there's no time where you'd say "Oh I shouldn't use that now" It's practically always good. But with Marines, you really have to think about when to use Stim and when to save the HP.
Maybe for bronze-leaguers this could be classified as a decision, but for anyone who has played more than 100 games w/ bio, it's very obvious when you should use stim (there is never an actual dilemma here).
But the reason stim works is that it gives very high microability and mobility. Stim would be OP if it was on all the time at no cost, and that's why this works here.
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EPT
