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Actually on the dad trying to get the kid to do things..
It may be that he was a degenerate himself as a kid, but order and discipline should not be underestimated as fundamentals of your identity. It'll make your life so much easier, even if you don't understand why you need to do it as a kid, it'll pay off in the end I'm sure, unless the dad did in such a bad way the kid has left over daddy issues from the whole chore experience.
And @ you vs tour team argument: yeah the best thing to do is just tell yourself that you should be able to carry the situation. Actual good players hard carry their team all the time when smurfing from unranked all the way to their actual level. It's only VERY rarely that circumtances tilt the entire situation to be uncarryable, so you see them going 30-3 or something before they get a 66% winrate..
Look to yourself and analyze your vods. And not glance ovet them, but critically, because it'll probably reveal way more than you initially want to admit to.
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On January 19 2019 20:47 Uldridge wrote:
Actually on the dad trying to get the kid to do things..
It may be that he was a degenerate himself as a kid, but order and discipline should not be underestimated as fundamentals of your identity. It'll make your life so much easier, even if you don't understand why you need to do it as a kid, it'll pay off in the end I'm sure, unless the dad did in such a bad way the kid has left over daddy issues from the whole chore experience.
I already addressed this btw.
"The dad/son analogy comes from the fact that people tend to become more conservative/right wing as they get older so the average dad was probably a degenerate kid for his fair share of time, didn't particularly respect himself then and doesn't want his own kids to be like that."
Interesting to think that it could be mostly wasted effort as the kids personality will morph as he matures anyway and the dad can just take credit for him putting in groundwork lol. On the other hand forcing structure on someone is a good way to keep them on the straight and narrow until they do mature a bit.
On January 19 2019 20:47 Uldridge wrote:
And @ you vs tour team argument: yeah the best thing to do is just tell yourself that you should be able to carry the situation. Actual good players hard carry their team all the time when smurfing from unranked all the way to their actual level. It's only VERY rarely that circumtances tilt the entire situation to be uncarryable, so you see them going 30-3 or something before they get a 66% winrate..
Look to yourself and analyze your vods. And not glance ovet them, but critically, because it'll probably reveal way more than you initially want to admit to.
but this is difficult and forces you to admit your weaknesses and look for ways to improve, while blaming your team is faster, easier and you don't have to change.
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I was reiterating your "dad was a degenerate himself" bit.
I think most of your core values are molded into you from very early on, and maturing is heavily overrated. It mostly happens because you get more and more constricted because of responsibilities (kids, bills, relationships, work).
You'll either have the values or you won't and being an adult will be that much easier if you have them because you won't need to spend an inordinate amount of convincing yourself to stop procrastinating or prioritizing or needing to be tidy/organized. It's insane how much adulthood ramps up in needing orderliness as you get from your 20s to your 30s if you have a "traditional" kind of life (family/9-5 job/..)
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On January 19 2019 20:46 Slayer91 wrote:
o can you explain how this makes sense?? Let's go through the systems to date.
OLD SYSTEM: High elo's get higher picks, thus if you filled you might play worse but had less of an expectation from the team as you were the lowest ranked and probably didn't get your preferred role. OK but lots of arguments.
CURRENT SYSTEM: You mostly get your main roles, if you get filled it kinda sucks for your team, because of your point which is that you are better on your main which punishes your team if you don't get your main.
PROPOSED SYSTEM: You mostly get your main roles, if you don't you get a game in an elo adjusted to your rank on that autofilled role.
There's one other one. Old system where high elos didn't get higher picks and it was random instead.
So if ppl want to go to the "old" system, then it should be decided which one that is.
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On January 19 2019 21:16 AdsMoFro wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2019 20:46 Slayer91 wrote:
o can you explain how this makes sense?? Let's go through the systems to date.
OLD SYSTEM: High elo's get higher picks, thus if you filled you might play worse but had less of an expectation from the team as you were the lowest ranked and probably didn't get your preferred role. OK but lots of arguments.
CURRENT SYSTEM: You mostly get your main roles, if you get filled it kinda sucks for your team, because of your point which is that you are better on your main which punishes your team if you don't get your main.
PROPOSED SYSTEM: You mostly get your main roles, if you don't you get a game in an elo adjusted to your rank on that autofilled role.
There's one other one. Old system where high elos didn't get higher picks and it was random instead. So if ppl want to go to the "old" system, then it should be decided which one that is.
don't really remember that but sounds like bad news bears for sure
it was probably between old system and current?
I guess the idea was to be more egalitarian but that was also the idea behind communist russia
On January 19 2019 21:08 Uldridge wrote:
I was reiterating your "dad was a degenerate himself" bit.
I think most of your core values are molded into you from very early on, and maturing is heavily overrated. It mostly happens because you get more and more constricted because of responsibilities (kids, bills, relationships, work).
You'll either have the values or you won't and being an adult will be that much easier if you have them because you won't need to spend an inordinate amount of convincing yourself to stop procrastinating or prioritizing or needing to be tidy/organized. It's insane how much adulthood ramps up in needing orderliness as you get from your 20s to your 30s if you have a "traditional" kind of life (family/9-5 job/..)
I mean that's basically nature vs nuture argument, from what I understand it's probably mostly nature? Core values are probably just a meme but you have similar personality to your parents and the ones that don't probably are the ones who have the most trouble with their parents because they try harder to "mold" their kids who want none of it.
but who knows im not a scientist
Probably true about that stuff about responsibilities being forced on you making you change your personality. The more shit you have to handle the less energy you have to play games all day 
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I mean the genetics factor which affect the propensity towards obsessive behavior or being more nonchalant is defenitely a thing, but I'm quite sure nurture has a strong effect, since you construct your value system in a social context, not individually; its always based on some sort of relationship to something.
Obviously there are so many mismatches and many parents have no idea how to do it right. I believe it's also very difficult to parent correctly if you're busting your ass the entire day and then you still need to give mental and physical energy to your kid.
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I mean what is a value system and how can we separate it from genetic personality?
This is a bit like saying "oh if we don't teach religion they will just have no morals" but if we exist and cooperate cross-culturally and for 1000's of years why do you think its all what your parents teach you and not genetics. What if you had shitty parents?
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Society influences you from all its layers. There's actually a strong argument for why people tend to adhere to religions, seperate from morals, but thats an entirely different conversation.
I just thought of an analogy. Lets say your life is building a structure and how steady the structure is, is dependent on what kind of rope and knots you use. The quality of the rope and its attributes is inherent (genetics), while the knots you use will fortify or weaken the structure and rope (value system), also, if you have great parents they'll help you understand what kind of rope you're dealing with and show you which knots go best with said rope.
Having shitty parents has incredible influence on your later stages of life. There's a reason daddy and mommy issues exist lol, and that's quite tame shit. Abusive or substance abusing parents leave a mark on everything you do for the rest of your life.
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This new bounty system makes no sense to me. Was playing bot, it was a shitfest where I was 0/3 but 30-40 cs ahead while the other ad was 2/3, and somehow I was worth a 450g shutdown despite being 30-60 cs behind sololaners on both sides.
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On January 19 2019 21:16 AdsMoFro wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2019 20:46 Slayer91 wrote:
o can you explain how this makes sense?? Let's go through the systems to date.
OLD SYSTEM: High elo's get higher picks, thus if you filled you might play worse but had less of an expectation from the team as you were the lowest ranked and probably didn't get your preferred role. OK but lots of arguments.
CURRENT SYSTEM: You mostly get your main roles, if you get filled it kinda sucks for your team, because of your point which is that you are better on your main which punishes your team if you don't get your main.
PROPOSED SYSTEM: You mostly get your main roles, if you don't you get a game in an elo adjusted to your rank on that autofilled role.
There's one other one. Old system where high elos didn't get higher picks and it was random instead. So if ppl want to go to the "old" system, then it should be decided which one that is.
I like the current system the best out of everything so far, the old one sucked because PB was so hostile, and the new one is stupid because there are so many special cases that have to be accommodated.
Ex: Not many people play support below diamond, you're basically guaranteed to get the role. Say you're climbing with a 55-60% winrate from gold, and you never have to autofill. Now you finally reach diamond, and all of a sudden you do get autofilled. What happens? Do you play top in your original gold division? Do your offrole positions scale slowly while you gain MMR? Because neither of those are any indication of your real offrole position rank, only games you play that position are. And it's offrole, so you're not playing a lot of it, meaning you need to play a lot of games before Riot has even an inkling of an idea where your real level is. The blog talks about 'splashing', which sounds nice at first, but honestly is just 'making numbers up'. By this strain of thought, might as well as just use the other in game stats like Gp5 and KDA to distribute MMR in the post-game.
Ex 2: If you suck at an offrole, like really suck, how much MMR/LP should you be losing for these games if you are good at your mains? Riot's decision on how much this is worth will basically reward certain types of players, and punish others, it's a bit arbitrary because the 'optimal' climbing method is at their discretion.
Ex 3: Like the above, only you purposefully pretend to suck at a role while carrying hard with your mains, in an attempt to game the system. If offrole games don't count as much for a loss, how much for a win? If you pretend to suck at a role, then once you reach a high enough MMR, decide to drop the act, does this allow you to blast through divisions that are supposed to be difficult to get through, like D4+, playing against lower division players?
Show nested quote +On January 20 2019 00:27 Sent. wrote:
This new bounty system makes no sense to me. Was playing bot, it was a shitfest where I was 0/3 but 30 cs ahead while the other ad was 2/3, and somehow I was worth a 450g shutdown despite being 30-60 cs behind sololaners on both sides.
There was some pro game this past week where one team was 2k ahead, but their bounties combined added up to like 3k or something. Also infamous Khan 0/2/0 and 300g down, but still having a 700g bounty. It basically means that snowballing is a risk in itself, because the counter snowball can be bigger than your own.
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All the proposed system is going to mean is mid/jungler is always "autofill protected" since everyone with just a half-working brain want "smurfs" in those positions.
Hell. I'm considering picking up jungle just so I can queue mid/jungle and swap everytime a mid or jungler is autofilled support for the juicy free wins. lol
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That's actually hilarious, I can totally see people at least trying that out. I feel like an armchair general, but I really wonder if Riot wasn't able to brainstorm those kinds of exploits within their team, and see that this system is so prone to abuse.
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Yes gambling the system by playing the majority of the games in a role you dont actually want to main. You guys are geniuses. Let me abuse public health care by inflicting self harm that will show them socialists.
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On January 19 2019 23:19 Uldridge wrote:
Society influences you from all its layers. There's actually a strong argument for why people tend to adhere to religions, seperate from morals, but thats an entirely different conversation.
I just thought of an analogy. Lets say your life is building a structure and how steady the structure is, is dependent on what kind of rope and knots you use. The quality of the rope and its attributes is inherent (genetics), while the knots you use will fortify or weaken the structure and rope (value system), also, if you have great parents they'll help you understand what kind of rope you're dealing with and show you which knots go best with said rope.
Having shitty parents has incredible influence on your later stages of life. There's a reason daddy and mommy issues exist lol, and that's quite tame shit. Abusive or substance abusing parents leave a mark on everything you do for the rest of your life.
I mean adhering to religions can be attributed to several biases also the fact that it's super awkward to tell a religious person that their flying spaceman doesn't exist so :shrug:
You're making a lot of claims but how are we supposed to know they are true or not? Just because something makes sense doesn't mean it's true.
It could make sense your values come from the context you were raised in. It also makes sense that it's just because we evolved to live in societies so we naturally tend to cooperate.
For example, political left vs right is mostly a debate of values e.g living the "right" way vs "let people live how they want. The fact that political views are strongly connected to personality and personality generally doesn't change much over the course of someone's life indicates that you can probably predict someones values when they are 30 by doing a personality test when they are 15.
Yeah how you grow up matters. Obviously a pro tennis player is only a pro tennis player because he was taken to tennis by his parents, but maybe he could have equally been a pro baseball player or a pro soccer player as the traits needed to succeed in those sports have certain similarities.
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I guess this is what happens when the off topic discussion thread kicks the bucket.
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TIL I became an old man in 5th grade
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On January 20 2019 01:59 loSleb wrote:
Yes gambling the system by playing the majority of the games in a role you dont actually want to main. You guys are geniuses. Let me abuse public health care by inflicting self harm that will show them socialists.
I interpreted it more as it is incredibly beneficial to look up your teammates in champ select, and give the autofilled dude your role since they're statistically more likely to carry with their main role. It seems to be even more beneficial for mid and jungle, which are the most influential roles in soloQ right now, and there's a pretty good chance that if you take the role yourself, because so many people play those roles, the chance of getting an autofilled higher MMR jungle/mid main isn't that small.
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On January 20 2019 04:19 DarkCore wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2019 01:59 loSleb wrote:
Yes gambling the system by playing the majority of the games in a role you dont actually want to main. You guys are geniuses. Let me abuse public health care by inflicting self harm that will show them socialists. I interpreted it more as it is incredibly beneficial to look up your teammates in champ select, and give the autofilled dude your role since they're statistically more likely to carry with their main role. It seems to be even more beneficial for mid and jungle, which are the most influential roles in soloQ right now, and there's a pretty good chance that if you take the role yourself, because so many people play those roles, the chance of getting an autofilled higher MMR jungle/mid main isn't that small.
Exactly this.
It's going to suck for support mains since our teams are less likely to have autofills for the system enforced "smurfs". Of course this is once people learn to swallow their pride and give up the role for the (most likely considerately) better player, which if Overwatch is anything to go by they will learn.
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I don’t know how well riot is going to handle this, but they have a huge data set to work with and I think that if they have even half decent algorithms designers they should be able to both anticipate and adjust for all the “exploits” you guys are discussing. Although based on the design posts, I don’t think riot makes great use of their data or has that many in-house data scientists. They need to swallow their pride and be more like Netflix. A few years back Netflix posted their whole data set and just said that for anyone who could beat their in house algorithm by more than 5% they would buy the upgrade for a million dollars.
I don’t know if tiny indie game company riot could afford to pay that kind of bounty, but honestly I bet there are rocket scientists playing league who would design substantially better match making Algorithms for free just to have better games.
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I think the end result (probably take Reddit/YouTube for the sheeps to realize lol) will just be champ selections where people are more open to swapping so everyone get on their most comfortable roles since it should increase the chance of winning by a significant margin. Which despite Riot's proposed goal I find to be a great side-benefit.
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EPT
