Welcome to this patch's General Discussion thread for the League of Legends subforum. This thread is for discussion around League of Legends. Free feel to talk about anything LoL related here that does not already have its own thread.
Oh, and because I know this is gonna be memed from previous GD and I want first dibs: League design so recycled they're just giving a champ the ability to use all the old ults lul
When I saw the communist memes, I thought it was a joke, but no he's a full blown 'overthrow the suppressors' dude. Also one of the most gimmicky ults ever, although it'll be fun to play him from the looks of it. Can't wait to see the face of a Pyke who gets blown up by his own ult.
I would be careful about comparing Dota, Dota 2 or LoL to early Magic. The early magic years (pre Invasion block) were a bit of a Wild West in tournament magic. There were numerous shuffling cheats which were entirely legal and had no recourse. Judging was barely regulated and many L2s and below had no real understanding of the rules. That might sound crazy, but the number of times even come Mirrodin or kamigawa that judges could not issue a correct ruling (or ruling analogs) that had just been covered by the recent judge notes articles on the flagship was over half. In fact, I had appealed to a L3 at an Atlanta regional who couldn’t even get the Genesis triggered ruling correct in ODY-ONS standard regional. It was an era where there were numerous ways where you could earn a game win by drawing 1 less card. An era where confusing your opponent on game state wasn’t just legal but it was a way to win. Hell, at the same Atlanta regional I convinced an opponent to scoop to me with legal damage on the stack; literally went from winning the match straight to game 3 and a loss as I boiled away 2 lands on T3 with threats on the table. There’s a reason why there’s a lot of hesitation putting old players in the magic HoF due to how rampant cheating was on the pro scene for years. Hell Pikula, a player who built a reputation for calling out cheaters and building a more positive pro scene, a player who won an Invitational and has an iconic card to his name; despite all that and an above average record while still playing at a high level today can’t get in.
Sure, part of the reason why the best decks, the best strategies, and most broken cards weren’t fully discovered early on is because of the smaller player base and smaller dissemination of information. But let’s also remember that the Pros-Bloom incident with Mike Long. Let’s remember that the pro tour was much harder to get on; that it was much easier to cheat your way to victory. Hell it was literally days ago that “2 explore” Bertoncini” got a lifetime ban.
What I want to know about Sylas is if he gets a feast stack if he copy Cho'Gath's ultimate. That and watching a Gangplank ultimate destroy an entire team since Sylas is an AP champion.
An idea for kalista is that they set a medium cap on rend, but if you get something like 5 stacks on a champ/epic monster, the CD is refunded. The 90% AA damage is one of the most unique nerfs in the game, and basically implies the champ is broken.
So new champ can stack cho ult, that is hilarious.
On January 10 2019 02:15 Sent. wrote: Which champion is potentially the worst target to use Sylas' ult on? Kalista?
Probably kalista.
Nidalee would be pretty bad, seeing how he has no way to make enemies hunted... idk i guess cougQW still a decent revenue and escape start. Zoe would be awful tho.
Best is probably wukong. That 800+2.2 ap ratio ult kinda nasty. With pen could be like 2400 dmg over 4s.
Zoe, Udyr come to mind, because he doesn't have the rest of the kit to exploit them. Xayah ult is only decent, because he's only going to be using the invun, feather damage is negligible.
One more useless ult is Orianna's, Sylas doesn't have her ball after all.
Thought about Nidalee and Elise because they need full combos to be useful, but I can imagine situations where one Nida spear/heal or one Elise E could make a difference, while Kalista's ult will always do nothing. So to be worse than Kalista's ult you'd need something that would actively hurt Sylas.
About the best ultimate: His gap closer isn't that good compared to Wukongs, so I'm not sure about that one. Something instant and long range like Malphite ult would be better I think.
reducing jungle influence a bit (lower camp reward scaling, less damage from the Smite upgrades).
Like... what?! That'll do the opposite of that they intend. Farming jungles are weak, have been since crab changes... so nerfs farming junglers more so the is even less risk from chain ganking. I'm sure that will stop all the chain ganking laners hate. Its not like making camps valuable again so that wasting time would put you far behind like before when jungle "had less influence" is hard.
Literally for a year, Camille, who can't even clear the damn jungle, has been an S-tier pick. Better nerf farming junglers. I just... wtf?! Do they even play the game? If they want junglers to have less agency maybe make it so that if you path one side of your jungler to the other you dont have to dick around for a minute and a half to get your camps back up? Wtf else do they think junglers going to do?
On January 10 2019 03:43 Sent. wrote: One more useless ult is Orianna's, Sylas doesn't have her ball after all.
Thought about Nidalee and Elise because they need full combos to be useful, but I can imagine situations where one Nida spear/heal or one Elise E could make a difference, while Kalista's ult will always do nothing. So to be worse than Kalista's ult you'd need something that would actively hurt Sylas.
About the best ultimate: His gap closer isn't that good compared to Wukongs, so I'm not sure about that one. Something instant and long range like Malphite ult would be better I think.
I'd agree here. I don't think he gets human nidalee though?
My impression was that he gets to transform to the opposite of what he casted his ult on, that is if he casted it on cougar he changes into human and if he casted it on human he changes into cougar.
If Sylas change Ezreal's ultimate into a pure AP ratio that's a pretty nasty +190% ratio. Can already see the glorious SylasxCait Ace in the Hole literal one shots too.
Think the idea of those changes are that champions that gank and farm well can gain big level leads if they do well (which isn't really true because muh catchup exp). However, these nerfs don't change much for those champs, smite is not the reason they clear quick
My impression was that he gets to transform to the opposite of what he casted his ult on, that is if he casted it on cougar he changes into human and if he casted it on human he changes into cougar.
Yes, he does transform. He even did that in his champion trailer (Shyvana ult, I think you can see him still in the dragon form after the ult animation completes)
About Nidalee/Elise: Either the Rioter on reddit was wrong or you can only get the animal form.
Nidalee & Elise, he can activate their ult on himself to get their alt form (cat/spider), until he re-activates ult and turns back into himself
Karma & Heim he can activate their ult to get a single cast of one of THEIR QWE abilities
Teemo & Corki he gets a full "load" of their ult (7 rockets for corki, 3 shrooms for Teemo)
Zoe... he just jumps forward and back once
edit - Jayce is like Nid/Elise, haven't looked at Udyr tbh, I'm a video producer not the designer. Hopefully Squad5, the designer can come in for more abilities.
On January 10 2019 05:07 DarkCore wrote: Think the idea of those changes are that champions that gank and farm well can gain big level leads if they do well (which isn't really true because muh catchup exp). However, these nerfs don't change much for those champs, smite is not the reason they clear quick
My impression was that he gets to transform to the opposite of what he casted his ult on, that is if he casted it on cougar he changes into human and if he casted it on human he changes into cougar.
What does he even do, does he actually transform?
I mean... or just make it so if say Camille wastes her early game time ganking mid unsuccessfully and shyvana takes her whole blue side for a 9 camp clear they aren't equal on xp. Why wouldn't camille hard chain gank? She loses nothing if she is unsuccessful, and likely even tilts the lane that was pressured. If she is successful then she and her lane hard snowball.
As an oldschool jungler, camille jungle being a thing blows my mind, and is perhaps an epitaph of an incredibly broken jungle. The jungle is so coinflippy right now, it's straight "not working as intended" busted. Literally if camille takes more than 2 camps without items shes at a quarter hp... she can't clear. She's slow and unhealthy in the jungle. But she has been an S tier pick for a year?
Laners are frustrated at the hard tents being pitched, and i think it's understandable, because the jungle makes no sense right now. Legit i went up from plat 4 to plat 1 almost instantly by just prioritizing ganks over farm and forcing ganks. I'd be pissed too at the camp, and I'm kind of frustrated as it is because so much of years of pathing / farming is just right down the drain because it's literally less efficient than just flipping a coin and forcing dumb ganks.
And the solution Riot has is essentially to just make farming worse? Idk, i feel like I'm playing pre jungle river alistar/eve ffs.
I've always thought they need to add camps that are further from the lanes, and give the highest gold and exp. "Safe camps" for lack of a better description.
On January 10 2019 12:07 cLutZ wrote: I also don't get it.
I've always thought they need to add camps that are further from the lanes, and give the highest gold and exp. "Safe camps" for lack of a better description.
Third camp on each side where the current blast cone is next to the base gates.
On January 10 2019 12:07 cLutZ wrote: I also don't get it.
I've always thought they need to add camps that are further from the lanes, and give the highest gold and exp. "Safe camps" for lack of a better description.
Third camp on each side where the current blast cone is next to the base gates.
That is a pretty good spot. I do understand that it's always going to be a PITA to balance jungle so long as the camps do good damage. It is also kinda my dream to Ivern-ify the jungle in practice (although without his wierd gimmick) for one season just to see what happens.
Overall I just think that they haven't done enough with the jungle seasons 3+. It has consistently been a problem position from my POV, and also RIOT themselves has always been talking about it being a problem. But they are very wimpy about actually making changes. I think the problem is because it is the position with the most variables at the early levels, which also is the time when the position is at the peak of it's power. That's a big issue as well.
On January 10 2019 12:07 cLutZ wrote: I also don't get it.
I've always thought they need to add camps that are further from the lanes, and give the highest gold and exp. "Safe camps" for lack of a better description.
Third camp on each side where the current blast cone is next to the base gates.
That is a pretty good spot. I do understand that it's always going to be a PITA to balance jungle so long as the camps do good damage. It is also kinda my dream to Ivern-ify the jungle in practice (although without his wierd gimmick) for one season just to see what happens.
Overall I just think that they haven't done enough with the jungle seasons 3+. It has consistently been a problem position from my POV, and also RIOT themselves has always been talking about it being a problem. But they are very wimpy about actually making changes. I think the problem is because it is the position with the most variables at the early levels, which also is the time when the position is at the peak of it's power. That's a big issue as well.
I mean Riot hates invading junglers and it hates farming junglers. So...that just leaves ganking junglers and Camille is the cancer of all ganking junglers.
For people with more experience how long should I wait after reset to start playing ranked this season? I assume the first week or so is probably a cluster fork as people who are reset to ranks and mmrs way below where they should be are all forced to smurf until they get back to where they belong.
On January 11 2019 01:10 General_Winter wrote: For people with more experience how long should I wait after reset to start playing ranked this season? I assume the first week or so is probably a cluster fork as people who are reset to ranks and mmrs way below where they should be are all forced to smurf until they get back to where they belong.
Early season is a fiesta, I'll be sitting it out for like a month, probably longer. Although for most elos, it probably doesn't make much difference in normal game quality.
Jungle has way too much influence on the game right now, it's not fun for bot lane.
I've never really played a massive amount of soloqueue but I don't think I ever notice much of a difference between the start of the season and later on.
I hate playing with Ezreal players below Diamond because they have 0 impact on the game. Also I suffer from Shaco syndrome with Vayne, enemy team always has a super good one while mine is a boosted animal.
I've never really played a massive amount of soloqueue but I don't think I ever notice much of a difference between the start of the season and later on.
If you don't win a lot of games early on, then you end up in fiesta games non stop, where the difference in player skill is very large because some Diamond dude had a bad day while Mr. Silver thinks he's the next Faker. But tbh, I also don't play ranked on weekends because I feel there's too many kids online too, so maybe it's my own bias.
That's because you're on NA server, where playing ranked relaxed is possible. The amount of flaming, intentional feeding and 'revenge' trolling I've seen means that you don't find any enjoyment in like 1/4 of games, unless you're in it to win it. 5 of my last 10 games had people either running it down, or making sure that the other 4 on their team had no chance to recover with their endless blaming and flaming.
I like to think I have a thick skin, but it's taking its toll.
Playing ranked relaxed is possible on EUW and you won't get extra flamed for playing for fun if you're not playing mid or something most players don't want in their team like Singed. People can't tell if you're tryharding or just playing to win with normal effort anyway.
I prefer euw flame NA players like to soft int or continuously harass people
rather someone just call me a bad word and move on
something off meta always gets a lot of flame regardless of how well you're doing
jungle/bot is annoying because jungler gets blamed for literally everything and bot you get blamed as a duo even if your lane partner is the one straight inting it
I have gotten a lot of soft inters in EUW as well. And I also prefer flaming to soft inting, because you can mute people, but a guy who ignores the team and afk pushes one lane so he can intentionally feed 10 kills is not easily ignorable when you're trying to win the game.
jungle/bot is annoying because jungler gets blamed for literally everything and bot you get blamed as a duo even if your lane partner is the one straight inting it
Worst is when jungle completely ignores the lane and then acts like it's our fault we went 0/6 while pushed into tower for 10 minutes and ganked as soon as we venture forward to place wards.
By the same token though, it's scary to go to a lane that's been pushed in for 10 minutes. Your team has no vision, their team has full vision, and their lane likely has more hp / sums and the ability to respond quicker. Also straight up, hard pushed in people are much more likely to just keep farming when you go to make a play than a winning lane. Also their jungler more likely to support them. It's dangerous.
Easier to play around winning lanes. Especially in soloqueue i would rather help a 5/0 guy dive his chump lane opponent than go swim in the shark tank trying to save a lane losing lane getting dove. I think it's a more winning strategy. Better for your teams gold intake, objective tempo, and overall map pressure. Might be different at real high elo or pro play.... but idk, i think it way better to just play around winning lanes.
Yeah. Playing around winning lanes is the easiest way to win. If we fail in botlane I, as soon as possible, always file for a divorce and start a new relationship with the most fed member on our team.
Toplaners always treat me reeeaaal good. I guess they are so used to being left all alone that someone dedicating themself to helping them make their heart flutter and cheeks blush.
You don't have to go for a risky gank, and suicide for kills. But this is season 9, there are few wards on the map early game, there's a good chance you can walk into a lane without being caught by vision or at least not well in advance. Junglers don't just go around collecting kills, they also apply pressure. Bot lane matchups can be quite one sided these days, if one duo knows they're never getting ganked, then they push for free plates, collect dragon or the support roams.
Only focusing on one winning lane at the cost of other lanes losing is basically Russian roulette. If you camp one lane while having a presence on the rest of the map, it helps.
On January 12 2019 06:46 DarkCore wrote: You don't have to go for a risky gank, and suicide for kills. But this is season 9, there are few wards on the map early game, there's a good chance you can walk into a lane without being caught by vision or at least not well in advance. Junglers don't just go around collecting kills, they also apply pressure. Bot lane matchups can be quite one sided these days, if one duo knows they're never getting ganked, then they push for free plates, collect dragon or the support roams.
Only focusing on one winning lane at the cost of other lanes losing is basically Russian roulette. If you camp one lane while having a presence on the rest of the map, it helps.
You think it's better for a jungler to stand around on wards so a behind lane can farm instead of taking the whole map next to a winning lane?
I'm not sure i agree with that unless you're like tristana and their team has no mobility. I may just hard be wrong, but... idk that feels gross and incredibly inefficient to me.
On January 12 2019 05:06 dsyxelic wrote: I prefer euw flame NA players like to soft int or continuously harass people
rather someone just call me a bad word and move on
something off meta always gets a lot of flame regardless of how well you're doing
jungle/bot is annoying because jungler gets blamed for literally everything and bot you get blamed as a duo even if your lane partner is the one straight inting it
Almost everyone who actually plays or has played prefers flamers to inters. There was just a small contingent of sychophants that totally jumped on the "words totally matter" bandwagon when the first set of language policing was pushed.
On January 12 2019 06:46 DarkCore wrote: You don't have to go for a risky gank, and suicide for kills. But this is season 9, there are few wards on the map early game, there's a good chance you can walk into a lane without being caught by vision or at least not well in advance. Junglers don't just go around collecting kills, they also apply pressure. Bot lane matchups can be quite one sided these days, if one duo knows they're never getting ganked, then they push for free plates, collect dragon or the support roams.
Only focusing on one winning lane at the cost of other lanes losing is basically Russian roulette. If you camp one lane while having a presence on the rest of the map, it helps.
You think it's better for a jungler to stand around on wards so a behind lane can farm instead of taking the whole map next to a winning lane?
I'm not sure i agree with that unless you're like tristana and their team has no mobility. I may just hard be wrong, but... idk that feels gross and incredibly inefficient to me.
- Jungler goes from golems/gromp into river to get the scuttler, enemy laners see him and back off. If they don't, decent chance of no ward, jungler stays a bit longer, just a few seconds or starts moving to the bot brush. The argument that the enemy might be setting up for a counter gank is a lame excuse: obviously if you have no idea where the enemy team is, you don't want to all in, but there are going to be situations where you do know where they are. These are the kinds of decisions that differentiate good junglers from bad ones.
I have also seen too many junglers try to 'force' a winning lane to snowball out of control when it isn't possible. Again, this means camping some lane at the cost of the other two.
Right, but if i know their jungler on your side of the map and ive seen then react to me on a ward, ima path to the other side of the map and try to make a play with a higher percentage chance of success and a reward potentially better than "and we didn't hard lose the game yet, for now" and a risk lower than "whelp gg."
I think we're on the same page, just so often players yell unintelligible BS at their jungler simaliar to what they heard their favorite streamer says basically any time they're losing regardless of how the game is going. Ive had games where i literally had 3 successful ganks for every lane where someone has to move off the wave for three seconds and they spend the next 15 minutes moaning about jungler difference despite having more ganks, farm, experience and objective control than the other guy. Idk.
I'm not a big fan of these jungle nerfs. I think they're blind and inthe wrong direction. The problem isn't hundreds influence on lanes or their scaling.... its that the hard catchup xp makes it so you can hard influence and not be behind in xp. And these changes don't change that. Laners will be just as tilted next patch and junglers will be tilted too. Again... the best jungler in the game at the high level play right now can't even clear the jungle.
On January 12 2019 07:45 JimmiC wrote: The problem is people complain about "inters" when people are having a bad game, get camped or whatever. Having a system that bans people for bad games would be hella toxic as people would just avoid everyone to make sure they didn't hit whatever level not to mention peoples stress would go through the roof.
No one, not even rito thinks Words are worse. Just that words are very easy to police but the whiny, blame others for my loss mentality makes giving out bans for inting in any sort of automated way impossible and the cost of reviewing every report when I bet 95% or more are people griefing about someone on their team having a rough game or they perceive them to be bad would be hella expensive and at times subjective.
I mean, we can pretend that inting is hard to distinguish from being bad in a game, but I feel like my teammates have like 95% accuracy in identifying it in chat, because their flaming of inters is obvious. So, it just as easy to identify inters as flamers, simply based on language cues.
The problem is that Riot thinks that inting is a legitimate action once you have been slightly offended due to chat.
On January 12 2019 06:46 DarkCore wrote: You don't have to go for a risky gank, and suicide for kills. But this is season 9, there are few wards on the map early game, there's a good chance you can walk into a lane without being caught by vision or at least not well in advance. Junglers don't just go around collecting kills, they also apply pressure. Bot lane matchups can be quite one sided these days, if one duo knows they're never getting ganked, then they push for free plates, collect dragon or the support roams.
Only focusing on one winning lane at the cost of other lanes losing is basically Russian roulette. If you camp one lane while having a presence on the rest of the map, it helps.
applying pressure is a good meme
I suggest you try playing jungle and trying to gank behind bot lanes for a while and see if you change your perspective
often the reason people play like they aren't getting ganked is because any standard gank wouldn't be effective (ally bot lane too low to support without getting killed, enemy bot lane too ahead that they can kill you or run away with just a single ward for warning)
Even if you do some damage and burn a flash and heal or something, most likely the jungler has to base and the bot lane that got the gank didn't gain anything but a chance to base for free. Once both sides base the situation resets and jungler lost farm and possibly gave the other jungler a chance to get a 100% safe gank elsewhere or a rift herald or at least a farm advantage
Not too bad but if you try to do this 2-3 times and get maybe only 1 kill suddenly you've lost control of the rest of the map because the enemy jungler is ahead of you and possibly he managed to get some tower kills or ganks elsewhere
Mine "Year in review" stats made me realize I spent more time playing champions I'm shit at than those I'm the best at.
Also noticed Riot included non-summoners rift games in "Your top 3 champion breakdown". That one says I played 46 Leblanc games, but my most played mid champion is Leblanc with only 26 games.
On January 12 2019 06:46 DarkCore wrote: You don't have to go for a risky gank, and suicide for kills. But this is season 9, there are few wards on the map early game, there's a good chance you can walk into a lane without being caught by vision or at least not well in advance. Junglers don't just go around collecting kills, they also apply pressure. Bot lane matchups can be quite one sided these days, if one duo knows they're never getting ganked, then they push for free plates, collect dragon or the support roams.
Only focusing on one winning lane at the cost of other lanes losing is basically Russian roulette. If you camp one lane while having a presence on the rest of the map, it helps.
To be honest if we're losing in botlane I'd rather be left alone by the jungler, chances are we will lose the 2v3 or in worst case their jungler is there for the countergank and we will all die. Focus on helping top/mid has a much higher chance to succeed and since the current top meta is mostly champions that easily snowball out of control if they get a lead on their lane opponent and the meta champs are legit carries now too.
Ganking the winning lanes is still making two champions (X+jungler) fed which compared to getting Jungler+ ADC + support even is really not that much of a bad a trade, unless the ADC is a super hard carry I would rather see the jungler and top/mid complete take over the game since they can much easier spread the lead than botlane.
On January 12 2019 19:48 Jek wrote: Uuuh. New season stats are out, appearently I had 6 penta kills. Can only remember one of them.... oO
Apparently, it's bugged. Here's a link to it for those who want to check it out btw.
It still list 6 pentas for me, guess I was on fire last season. On second thought I can remember two a full build Karthus (dont do Baron if there's a full build Karthus alive) and a mega fed Jax game where I won a 2v5 with our support.
I recently decided to check out LoL again, someone somehow got access to my account, but I recently got it back. Playing is pretty hilarious, seeing a champ and being like "I wonder what their moves do" - and then getting blown up by like Pyke or something lol.
Good to see the forum is still kicking! Would like to play some with fellow TL guys - feel free to add me and we can play some time.
On January 13 2019 05:42 LoCicero wrote: Hi Guys ,
I recently decided to check out LoL again, someone somehow got access to my account, but I recently got it back. Playing is pretty hilarious, seeing a champ and being like "I wonder what their moves do" - and then getting blown up by like Pyke or something lol.
Good to see the forum is still kicking! Would like to play some with fellow TL guys - feel free to add me and we can play some time.
I'm rarely on NA but usually grind a bit during events and to get gold. Add me: AdsMoMonkey
I mean that made Wave post, so obviously the forum's full of vitality and is gonna have a couple more blips on its activity chart and unique visitors for the month!
how do alaric and gahlo have 20k+ posts on this site? id understand if the post count was for the whole of teamliquid but to have that many on LL only is crazy. i dont remember seeing people on LD with that many posts and LD is way more active, though to be fair i havent been on LD for ages so i dont really remember.
On January 13 2019 14:50 evilfatsh1t wrote: how do alaric and gahlo have 20k+ posts on this site? id understand if the post count was for the whole of teamliquid but to have that many on LL only is crazy. i dont remember seeing people on LD with that many posts and LD is way more active, though to be fair i havent been on LD for ages so i dont really remember.
One thing is posts in the community section count for whatever site you are logged in on.
On January 13 2019 14:50 evilfatsh1t wrote: how do alaric and gahlo have 20k+ posts on this site? id understand if the post count was for the whole of teamliquid but to have that many on LL only is crazy. i dont remember seeing people on LD with that many posts and LD is way more active, though to be fair i havent been on LD for ages so i dont really remember.
I made Off Topic my bitch and used to be a far more active player.
They're just a lot of fun and it's just awesome to see when someone does something epic - or stupid - in a game and you have entire pages dedicated to that one moment. And simultaneously the crowd in the background is reacting similarly. You feel so connected somehow.
Alright. Got to play the new Ornn. Losing shield on W really hurts, the unstopable part of it is suuuuuper nice in some fringe cases and wtf his damage now. Sadly you cannot pick what item when upgrading allies, it appearently just defaults to the first bought when they have multiple eligible items, gave Ezreal an upgraded Iceborn instead of BotrK++.
On January 14 2019 04:27 Jek wrote: Alright. Got to play the new Ornn. Losing shield on W really hurts, the unstopable part of it is suuuuuper nice in some fringe cases and wtf his damage now. Sadly you cannot pick what item when upgrading allies, it appearently just defaults to the first bought when they have multiple eligible items, gave Ezreal an upgraded Iceborn instead of BotrK++.
His level 11 spike is ridiculous.
Wait really? That's super sad lol. And wait??? Do u give the upgrades or does the upgrade not just show up in shop for your teammate if there's an Ornn in the game. Meaning didn't the Ez decide to upgrade Iceborn.
On January 14 2019 04:27 Jek wrote: Alright. Got to play the new Ornn. Losing shield on W really hurts, the unstopable part of it is suuuuuper nice in some fringe cases and wtf his damage now. Sadly you cannot pick what item when upgrading allies, it appearently just defaults to the first bought when they have multiple eligible items, gave Ezreal an upgraded Iceborn instead of BotrK++.
His level 11 spike is ridiculous.
Wait really? That's super sad lol. And wait??? Do u give the upgrades or does the upgrade not just show up in shop for your teammate if there's an Ornn in the game. Meaning didn't the Ez decide to upgrade Iceborn.
You just right click them and it upgrade the item, they dont get a choice at all. It's pretty meh you cant pick which one it is, so I dont think Ornn is worth it in an Ezreal comp unless it's a game where he can go Triforce. It's pretty nice you can do it on a "drive-by", my first friendly upgrade was on our jungler's Cleaver after he helped get a kill in the sidelane.
On January 14 2019 04:27 Jek wrote: Alright. Got to play the new Ornn. Losing shield on W really hurts, the unstopable part of it is suuuuuper nice in some fringe cases and wtf his damage now. Sadly you cannot pick what item when upgrading allies, it appearently just defaults to the first bought when they have multiple eligible items, gave Ezreal an upgraded Iceborn instead of BotrK++.
His level 11 spike is ridiculous.
Wait really? That's super sad lol. And wait??? Do u give the upgrades or does the upgrade not just show up in shop for your teammate if there's an Ornn in the game. Meaning didn't the Ez decide to upgrade Iceborn.
You just right click them and it upgrade the item, they dont get a choice at all. It's pretty meh you cant pick which one it is, so I dont think Ornn is worth it in an Ezreal comp unless it's a game where he can go Triforce. It's pretty nice you can do it on a "drive-by", my first friendly upgrade was on our jungler's Cleaver after he helped get a kill in the sidelane.
Was it always like this or...I'm feeling a bit dumb but I've very rarely played with Ornn and even then, games going to the point where u should upgrade items are kinda rare too. Who gets the cost of the upgrade, you or them?
On January 13 2019 05:42 LoCicero wrote: Hi Guys ,
I recently decided to check out LoL again, someone somehow got access to my account, but I recently got it back. Playing is pretty hilarious, seeing a champ and being like "I wonder what their moves do" - and then getting blown up by like Pyke or something lol.
Good to see the forum is still kicking! Would like to play some with fellow TL guys - feel free to add me and we can play some time.
With Vayne becoming popular again, I just got to experience the hilarious Veigar E Condemn strategy. It didn't work, but it's an interesting interaction I wanted to share.
Orrn rework seems very strange, no? Is he better now?
Why does Riot still place all new accounts at silver MMR? I dont understand.. I thought they wanted to fix matchmaking for new players, but they just give new accounts Iron IV league rating and the same Silver II MMR? LOL. Whats the point? I just got my buddy into the game, and we finally got to level 30 on his acc / my smurf. Riot has literally 200 games of data collected on you at this point...
Why dont they use the aggregate champion/role data (KDA/KP/Utility score/Damage per death/damage share/Damage per gold/early gold advantage / early cs advantage / cs per minute / objective control ratio / vision score / roam dominance / kill conversion) they collect to pull your MMR one direction or something? For example... if you have a 8+ CS/min, clearly you aren't an iron player. If you have 2 CS/min, clearly you aren't a gold player either.
Would be a far better experience if they put players in atleast a similair skill band. As much as I hard stomp silver players, I'm sure a legit new player probably gets hard stomped by Silver players too. They have the data, why wouldn't they use it? Makes no sense to me. I thought they wanted to fix this for new players?
On January 15 2019 10:51 iCanada wrote: Why does Riot still place all new accounts at silver MMR? I dont understand.. I thought they wanted to fix matchmaking for new players, but they just give new accounts Iron IV league rating and the same Silver II MMR? LOL. Whats the point? I just got my buddy into the game, and we finally got to level 30 on his acc / my smurf. Riot has literally 200 games of data collected on you at this point...
Why dont they use the aggregate champion/role data (KDA/KP/Utility score/Damage per death/damage share/Damage per gold/early gold advantage / early cs advantage / cs per minute / objective control ratio / vision score / roam dominance / kill conversion) they collect to pull your MMR one direction or something? For example... if you have a 8+ CS/min, clearly you aren't an iron player. If you have 2 CS/min, clearly you aren't a gold player either.
Would be a far better experience if they put players in atleast a similair skill band. As much as I hard stomp silver players, I'm sure a legit new player probably gets hard stomped by Silver players too. They have the data, why wouldn't they use it? Makes no sense to me. I thought they wanted to fix this for new players?
Think they are "fixing" it for the new season. Don't quote me on this, though.
On January 15 2019 10:51 iCanada wrote: Why does Riot still place all new accounts at silver MMR? I dont understand.. I thought they wanted to fix matchmaking for new players, but they just give new accounts Iron IV league rating and the same Silver II MMR? LOL. Whats the point? I just got my buddy into the game, and we finally got to level 30 on his acc / my smurf. Riot has literally 200 games of data collected on you at this point...
Why dont they use the aggregate champion/role data (KDA/KP/Utility score/Damage per death/damage share/Damage per gold/early gold advantage / early cs advantage / cs per minute / objective control ratio / vision score / roam dominance / kill conversion) they collect to pull your MMR one direction or something? For example... if you have a 8+ CS/min, clearly you aren't an iron player. If you have 2 CS/min, clearly you aren't a gold player either.
Would be a far better experience if they put players in atleast a similair skill band. As much as I hard stomp silver players, I'm sure a legit new player probably gets hard stomped by Silver players too. They have the data, why wouldn't they use it? Makes no sense to me. I thought they wanted to fix this for new players?
Because somewhere in silver is the average MMR of the playerbase. The % drop off of the ranked pie after Bronze and Silver is massive.
On January 15 2019 10:51 iCanada wrote: Why does Riot still place all new accounts at silver MMR? I dont understand.. I thought they wanted to fix matchmaking for new players, but they just give new accounts Iron IV league rating and the same Silver II MMR? LOL. Whats the point? I just got my buddy into the game, and we finally got to level 30 on his acc / my smurf. Riot has literally 200 games of data collected on you at this point...
Why dont they use the aggregate champion/role data (KDA/KP/Utility score/Damage per death/damage share/Damage per gold/early gold advantage / early cs advantage / cs per minute / objective control ratio / vision score / roam dominance / kill conversion) they collect to pull your MMR one direction or something? For example... if you have a 8+ CS/min, clearly you aren't an iron player. If you have 2 CS/min, clearly you aren't a gold player either.
Would be a far better experience if they put players in atleast a similair skill band. As much as I hard stomp silver players, I'm sure a legit new player probably gets hard stomped by Silver players too. They have the data, why wouldn't they use it? Makes no sense to me. I thought they wanted to fix this for new players?
Because somewhere in silver is the average MMR of the playerbase. The % drop off of the ranked pie after Bronze and Silver is massive.
thats what icanada is arguing against though. automatically placing accounts at that mmr because its the average makes for a shitty ranked experience until your mmr properly calibrates to your skill. i agree with icanada that ranked and normals shouldnt be divided like it is. what a waste of data
also am i the only one who thinks that essence reaver change is gonna suck? i literally cant think of any champion that would want that item
On January 15 2019 10:51 iCanada wrote: Why does Riot still place all new accounts at silver MMR? I dont understand.. I thought they wanted to fix matchmaking for new players, but they just give new accounts Iron IV league rating and the same Silver II MMR? LOL. Whats the point? I just got my buddy into the game, and we finally got to level 30 on his acc / my smurf. Riot has literally 200 games of data collected on you at this point...
Why dont they use the aggregate champion/role data (KDA/KP/Utility score/Damage per death/damage share/Damage per gold/early gold advantage / early cs advantage / cs per minute / objective control ratio / vision score / roam dominance / kill conversion) they collect to pull your MMR one direction or something? For example... if you have a 8+ CS/min, clearly you aren't an iron player. If you have 2 CS/min, clearly you aren't a gold player either.
Would be a far better experience if they put players in atleast a similair skill band. As much as I hard stomp silver players, I'm sure a legit new player probably gets hard stomped by Silver players too. They have the data, why wouldn't they use it? Makes no sense to me. I thought they wanted to fix this for new players?
Because somewhere in silver is the average MMR of the playerbase. The % drop off of the ranked pie after Bronze and Silver is massive.
thats what icanada is arguing against though. automatically placing accounts at that mmr because its the average makes for a shitty ranked experience until your mmr properly calibrates to your skill. i agree with icanada that ranked and normals shouldnt be divided like it is. what a waste of data
also am i the only one who thinks that essence reaver change is gonna suck? i literally cant think of any champion that would want that item
And... its not only normal MMR they can leverage as an MMR scaling lever... they literally have performance data normalized by rank for every champion...
You tell me, based on my smurfs last 10 nidalee normal games data; What is my mains ELO?
On January 15 2019 12:36 evilfatsh1t wrote: also am i the only one who thinks that essence reaver change is gonna suck? i literally cant think of any champion that would want that item
Why would the adc who used to buy it (sivir, ashe, xayah,jhin) not buy it anymore?
On January 15 2019 12:36 evilfatsh1t wrote: also am i the only one who thinks that essence reaver change is gonna suck? i literally cant think of any champion that would want that item
Why would the adc who used to buy it (sivir, ashe, xayah,jhin) not buy it anymore?
Hmm the problem becomes where do you fit it. It's 3200G compared to Stormazor at 2800G (Which all champs except Ashe/Vayne/Kai'sa and a few others buy). Stormrazor also has built in AS, meaning as a first item its extremely compelling. The question is if you can get away with Stormrazor into ER into IE maybe? Or even leaving IE till 4th item and getting your zeal item...which sucks.
I also never understood why riot collects a bunch of stats and gives you a rating after every game, but doesn't use it to place people in initial divisions. You really think a dude who can farm 9cs/min is silver? First 20 games in ranked every season should look at those stats and change your MMR gains.
Essence reaver sucks because AD build Is crap atm, you don't want the item after or before stormrazor, and lategame you want an IE or Arpen. Games rarely go late enough to consider buying it, despite its real power spike being in the mid game. If lethality came back, we might see it as a third item.
On January 15 2019 12:36 evilfatsh1t wrote: also am i the only one who thinks that essence reaver change is gonna suck? i literally cant think of any champion that would want that item
Why would the adc who used to buy it (sivir, ashe, xayah,jhin) not buy it anymore?
Hmm the problem becomes where do you fit it. It's 3200G compared to Stormazor at 2800G (Which all champs except Ashe/Vayne/Kai'sa and a few others buy). Stormrazor also has built in AS, meaning as a first item its extremely compelling. The question is if you can get away with Stormrazor into ER into IE maybe? Or even leaving IE till 4th item and getting your zeal item...which sucks.
I would pick it first, like old ER. Currently 3200G is also the price of botrk and some champions still buy it first but don't necessarily forfeit the lane (hello Lucian).
If you compare the proposed ER as your only item compared to pre 8.11 ER pros: - cost 200G less - gives 20% CDR immediatly rather than 10% - has an extra 5% crit - mana sustain is not tied to getting crits
cons: - lost 10 AD
It's not stormrazer but it sounds like a stronger 1 item spike than the old ER.
I hate the removal of spectral waltz from PD. That ability is why the item is called phantom dancer and it’s absolutely core to the kit of all melee crit users. It represents a huge satisfaction spike where you go from being creep blocked and hating your life to actually being able to get to walk where you want to go.
I mean if you farm 10cspm in silver and lose you probably deserve to be silver. You can always play to have good stats, it only really matters if you win.
On January 15 2019 23:04 Ansibled wrote: I mean if you farm 10cspm in silver and lose you probably deserve to be silver. You can always play to have good stats, it only really matters if you win.
Right, but if you're silver with 10cs/min and you lose, your roam dominance / kda / vision / objective control / objective damage / damage share / gold difference @ 10 etc all are probably complete garbage or you'd hard stomp any play you forced. If all those stats are high and you lose, you're basically in true elo hell, imo.
On January 16 2019 05:28 JimmiC wrote: I guess if you are getting that at the expense of your team and you are the lone carry than make one big derp and the 5 can grab baron and roll over your underfed rest of your team for the win. But it would take consistently getting way ahead of your whole team and than consistently having a major fuck up in the mid/late.
But i mean, then all you need to do is learn to not hard throw and buddy would hard climb. Doing all the above and getting all those stats high legit means you know the fundamentals well. You could argue the player should climb up create less chinsy games regardless.
On order to have both CS you need to know the game at a solid level mechanically. If you're getting a gold differential, you're leveraging trading or pathing to create gold leads. If your vision score is good you're leveraging your gold lead to create vision for you and deny it for them. If your kda and vision are good your abusing your vision to create picks. If your kill conversion is high you're using your picks to get objective that win you the game. That's the entire game fundamentally. I don't think you can have all those stats high by "playing for them."
And even if you could, i still that'll that'd make you a better player regardless.
On January 15 2019 23:04 Ansibled wrote: I mean if you farm 10cspm in silver and lose you probably deserve to be silver. You can always play to have good stats, it only really matters if you win.
Right, but if you're silver with 10cs/min and you lose, your roam dominance / kda / vision / objective control / objective damage / damage share / gold difference @ 10 etc all are probably complete garbage or you'd hard stomp any play you forced. If all those stats are high and you lose, you're basically in true elo hell, imo.
Exactly, the chance of all those skills being below silver while averaging high cs is just too unlikely, Riot should ignore fringe cases. Besides, they should look at the stats for start of season, not the whole time. It's just to filter out real newbies from smurfs and higher elo people on a losing streak.
While they're at it, they could also fix normal match making, it's beyond broken.
On January 15 2019 23:04 Ansibled wrote: I mean if you farm 10cspm in silver and lose you probably deserve to be silver. You can always play to have good stats, it only really matters if you win.
Right, but if you're silver with 10cs/min and you lose, your roam dominance / kda / vision / objective control / objective damage / damage share / gold difference @ 10 etc all are probably complete garbage or you'd hard stomp any play you forced. If all those stats are high and you lose, you're basically in true elo hell, imo.
Even with all of those, you still only have maybe a 60% win rate. There are your teams 4 other players, inters, feeders, leavers, the other team, people on coms, smurfs, mouse bugs, etc. 60% win rate gets you two extra wins every 10 games or about 40LP if you are gaining 20 for a win. It still takes 25 games to go up a division at that rate and 100 games to go up a whole league (eg from silver 4 to gold 4). Presumably if Riot has all those other stats they should be able to deduce that our hypothetical 60% win rate player belongs much higher in fewer than 100 games. 20 games should be more than enough if the stats are consistently high.
60% winrate in silver 4 is maybe barely gold 4 in skill. 100 games for that seems fine. If you duo and are both significantly better you should win 90%+ and gain a full division every 15-20 games. Stats don't mean shit, only winrate does. Your rank only says how good you are at winning.
whats the point to have grandmaster, if it is merged with master and challenger as one division? I mean Iron has its sub divisions, promos ets, so more or less it skews the ladder, but what does grandmaster brings if it works the same way master worked before?
Except it doesn't. It makes far more sense for Challenger to be below Master. Maybe it made sense on some level when the NA/EU Challenger Leagues existed, but even that is self defeating since there is still something above that.
On January 17 2019 02:06 Uldridge wrote: So the battle for rank 1 does not exist?
You're still Challenger. It makes more sense for Challengers to challenge the Masters for their spots and for the elites of the Masters to be Grand Masters
Let's agree to disagree then because I see it completely different. The challenges are grandmasters that are so good they are able to challenge each other for the prestige of best player, aka rank 1. Hence they are challengers for the top spot. Obviously someone that is low tier challenger coming in and out the tier will never be top dog, but it does signal that he's close. While if you're grandmaster you're just completely adept at what you do, but you're not a challenger just yet. Makes complete sense for me in this way. Would perhaps make even more sense if they only let the top 10 in ladder be challenger though.
On January 17 2019 03:29 Uldridge wrote: Let's agree to disagree then because I see it completely different. The challenges are grandmasters that are so good they are able to challenge each other for the prestige of best player, aka rank 1. Hence they are challengers for the top spot. Obviously someone that is low tier challenger coming in and out the tier will never be top dog, but it does signal that he's close. While if you're grandmaster you're just completely adept at what you do, but you're not a challenger just yet. Makes complete sense for me in this way. Would perhaps make even more sense if they only let the top 10 in ladder be challenger though.
Rank1 is still Challenger though, so what is the rank1 player challenging?
On January 17 2019 03:29 Uldridge wrote: Let's agree to disagree then because I see it completely different. The challenges are grandmasters that are so good they are able to challenge each other for the prestige of best player, aka rank 1. Hence they are challengers for the top spot. Obviously someone that is low tier challenger coming in and out the tier will never be top dog, but it does signal that he's close. While if you're grandmaster you're just completely adept at what you do, but you're not a challenger just yet. Makes complete sense for me in this way. Would perhaps make even more sense if they only let the top 10 in ladder be challenger though.
Rank1 is still Challenger though, so what is the rank1 player challenging?
@Gahlo He's constantly being challenged, so obviously the challenged is still a challenger. There should be a reward though for people being on top for x consecutive days or the guy who was rank 1 the longest.
Is anyone here following the twitch rivals event? Not the highest level of play by any means, but it seems like a fun event and most teams have a few challenger level players so the level of play is at least well above my own. Since it’s a twitch event most rounds are being streamed by all 10 players which is a pretty cool angle to be able to watch from.
On January 17 2019 06:39 General_Winter wrote: Is anyone here following the twitch rivals event? Not the highest level of play by any means, but it seems like a fun event and most teams have a few challenger level players so the level of play is at least well above my own. Since it’s a twitch event most rounds are being streamed by all 10 players which is a pretty cool angle to be able to watch from.
I followed it. It's a fun event. Riot's trying to build up hype for Clash, I guess. Hopefully it doesnt go boom like last year haha
I'll always be hyped for Clash just cuz I really like tournaments. On the other hand, Clash going boom is tradition at this point and I'd hate for that tradition to go away.
On January 17 2019 06:39 General_Winter wrote: Is anyone here following the twitch rivals event? Not the highest level of play by any means, but it seems like a fun event and most teams have a few challenger level players so the level of play is at least well above my own. Since it’s a twitch event most rounds are being streamed by all 10 players which is a pretty cool angle to be able to watch from.
Yeah, I got heartbroken since one of my favorite streamers - Keegun lost without playing because one of his teammates Annie bot did not wake up for the event. Anyway, since Dekar (another favorite of mine) is not in the tourney, and xBlotter lost as well, I hold thumbs for foggedftw2 now
When your business model is to change something all the time, just for the sake of changing things and you run out of idiotic ideas and come up with something spectacularly retarded
I don’t think the core idea for position ranks is that bad. I mean we will have to see how well riot implements it (I’m not super optimistic), but I support the idea of people not having to lose every game where their adc is auto filled.
I just feel it makes ranking up on a highly prioritised lane like mid take way longer than it would normally? Also, OCE is a fucking small ass region so hopefully they realise how stupid it'd be to do in diamond+ since queue times will be so fucking long and you're going to have the most imbalanced games of all time.
Edit: ALso, what happens if your duo gets autofilled but you get your main??
Last summer, we started testing positional matchmaking in Normal Draft to make sure it was ready for prime time
This may be the reason why I found the games so lopsided, implying this method sucks. When a D3 player offroles, do you think he is comparable to a Plat 1 player? Is this 'gap' considered the same as a P3 vs G1?
yeah getting rid of positions in matchmaking seems best for ranked overall. i dont agree with the idea that you can call yourself a diamond player because youre good at your one trick but be gold for every other lane/champion. what that should actually mean is youre a gold player who happens to be particularly good at one champion.
On January 18 2019 11:58 evilfatsh1t wrote: yeah getting rid of positions in matchmaking seems best for ranked overall. i dont agree with the idea that you can call yourself a diamond player because youre good at your one trick but be gold for every other lane/champion. what that should actually mean is youre a gold player who happens to be particularly good at one champion.
disagree. no player is that bad at their off roles.
if you hit diamond on any character you're already demonstrating game sense skills that will cause you to outperform anyone in gold/plat even on off roles and champs.
even weird playstyle champs like singed and a.sol translate lots of macro skills to other champions that low elo simply lacks.
even if you play a different role, you don't suddenly forget how to roam, how to abuse a power spike, how to position, when to engage, where to ward, etc.
IDK, my friend got to D5 last year playing basically only Amumu jungle, but he is like a Silver level laner and probably couldn't get any other role into Gold.
ok diamond to gold was a bit of an exaggeration but my point still stands. it is perfectly reasonable to assume that a diamond 1 riven one trick may only be diamond 5 when he jungles or supports or something. if he gets autofilled in a diamond 1-2 game then that team is almost guaranteed to lose. also there are plenty of players who play less mechanically intensive champions in roles such as jg or top and then get autofilled to adc and cant kite for shit. or players who get autofilled to support and dont actually know how to dictate bot lane. basically what im saying is its pretty common to find players that get autofilled and play at a level thats distinctly below the mmr they are matched in. without positional ranked mm theyd average out at like diamond 3 maybe because they dont get their ideal role all the time and id say that rank is a much fairer analysis of their overall skill. i believe this was what the old ranked system was like but i cant say for sure since i didnt play back then.
and there we go. clutz comes up with a real life example. im sure there are many more since i can say i have experience with boosted autofilled people in matchmaking also.
On January 18 2019 11:58 evilfatsh1t wrote: yeah getting rid of positions in matchmaking seems best for ranked overall. i dont agree with the idea that you can call yourself a diamond player because youre good at your one trick but be gold for every other lane/champion. what that should actually mean is youre a gold player who happens to be particularly good at one champion.
disagree. no player is that bad at their off roles.
if you hit diamond on any character you're already demonstrating game sense skills that will cause you to outperform anyone in gold/plat even on off roles and champs.
even weird playstyle champs like singed and a.sol translate lots of macro skills to other champions that low elo simply lacks.
even if you play a different role, you don't suddenly forget how to roam, how to abuse a power spike, how to position, when to engage, where to ward, etc.
But you literally do, that's why people don't just snap their fingers and swap roles at the pro level. How do you know how to roam when you don't know the ins and outs of wave manipulation in your lane? How do you know how to abuse a power spike if you don't know the common powerspikes of the champions played in that role relative to your own? Positioning/engaing I'll give you to a degree, but the positional needs of a tank top laner and a hypercarry vary greatly. And how do you know where to ward in a lane that you're unfamiliar with? Take for example the safe ward you see players place slightly outside of tribrush in river on bot side if the enemy jungler has a good level 2 gank, so you can see it before it comes, that's something I know about from playing 1000s of games as support, however I know next to nothing about warding times/locations for top lane.
And that's all just differences from lane and says nothing about a jungler to a laner or a laner to a jungler.
IDK, my friend got to D5 last year playing basically only Amumu jungle, but he is like a Silver level laner and probably couldn't get any other role into Gold.
I play jungle (specifically Rek'sai/Elise) at a diamond level. I think I could get plat with every single role given 50 games. Would I get Plat on every role if you chose my champ: For example: Riven/Yas/Draven. Probably not. I think your friend could get at least high gold with enough time on a basic enough champ.
On January 18 2019 15:04 cLutZ wrote: Probably with enough time. But isn't that just saying, "well he can practice and get better"?
How much time is "enough time"? I reckon most people (let's say 90%) who are high plat can do it in 50 games. What I'm trying to say is someone who is diamond can get to gold better than a gold player can get their non-mains to gold. Why? Because they understand the game on average better than an actual gold player, proving that they're fundemantally better players.
what youre talking about is slightly unrelated to the original point. the diamond player may have an easier time getting his other roles to gold than a player whose peak is gold, but that doesnt make that player a diamond player. if 4/5 roles for him are gold then the player should be seen as a gold player and being matched with other golds without role assignments would make for overall fairer matchmaking. keep in mind in some cases a player may not even play at his peak level for every champion in his role. if hes a riven one trick and he sucks ass at every other typical top laner then you cant even argue hes a diamond player when he gets his top role. hes just a diamond player when he plays riven
On January 18 2019 16:48 evilfatsh1t wrote: what youre talking about is slightly unrelated to the original point. the diamond player may have an easier time getting his other roles to gold than a player whose peak is gold, but that doesnt make that player a diamond player. if 4/5 roles for him are gold then the player should be seen as a gold player and being matched with other golds without role assignments would make for overall fairer matchmaking. keep in mind in some cases a player may not even play at his peak level for every champion in his role. if hes a riven one trick and he sucks ass at every other typical top laner then you cant even argue hes a diamond player when he gets his top role. hes just a diamond player when he plays riven
So then they should shit on golds because in the 1/10 games he plays on not riven he's gold level? i don't get how you balance a queue around that unless you force people to play every role once every 5 games lol.
On January 18 2019 16:48 evilfatsh1t wrote: what youre talking about is slightly unrelated to the original point. the diamond player may have an easier time getting his other roles to gold than a player whose peak is gold, but that doesnt make that player a diamond player. if 4/5 roles for him are gold then the player should be seen as a gold player and being matched with other golds without role assignments would make for overall fairer matchmaking. keep in mind in some cases a player may not even play at his peak level for every champion in his role. if hes a riven one trick and he sucks ass at every other typical top laner then you cant even argue hes a diamond player when he gets his top role. hes just a diamond player when he plays riven
So then they should shit on golds because in the 1/10 games he plays on not riven he's gold level? i don't get how you balance a queue around that unless you force people to play every role once every 5 games lol.
Isn't that just the old system, just without the randomness of pick order?
On January 18 2019 16:48 evilfatsh1t wrote: what youre talking about is slightly unrelated to the original point. the diamond player may have an easier time getting his other roles to gold than a player whose peak is gold, but that doesnt make that player a diamond player. if 4/5 roles for him are gold then the player should be seen as a gold player and being matched with other golds without role assignments would make for overall fairer matchmaking. keep in mind in some cases a player may not even play at his peak level for every champion in his role. if hes a riven one trick and he sucks ass at every other typical top laner then you cant even argue hes a diamond player when he gets his top role. hes just a diamond player when he plays riven
So then they should shit on golds because in the 1/10 games he plays on not riven he's gold level? i don't get how you balance a queue around that unless you force people to play every role once every 5 games lol.
Isn't that just the old system, just without the randomness of pick order?
So we go backwards in the effective balance of games? People like playing their main roles for as much as possible? Does autofill suck? Sure. But beats having 3 support mains on your team trying to CS as you smash your head into the keyboard because you got fucked by rng. This method is way better.
As far as position ranks, it's way more difficult to implement. I'll wait to see how they go.
Anyways, my entire point was that a diamond player IS better than a gold player even not on their one trick. They'll learn faster and know the game in general at a higher level than the average gold player.
On January 18 2019 11:58 evilfatsh1t wrote: yeah getting rid of positions in matchmaking seems best for ranked overall. i dont agree with the idea that you can call yourself a diamond player because youre good at your one trick but be gold for every other lane/champion. what that should actually mean is youre a gold player who happens to be particularly good at one champion.
disagree. no player is that bad at their off roles.
if you hit diamond on any character you're already demonstrating game sense skills that will cause you to outperform anyone in gold/plat even on off roles and champs.
even weird playstyle champs like singed and a.sol translate lots of macro skills to other champions that low elo simply lacks.
even if you play a different role, you don't suddenly forget how to roam, how to abuse a power spike, how to position, when to engage, where to ward, etc.
But you literally do, that's why people don't just snap their fingers and swap roles at the pro level. How do you know how to roam when you don't know the ins and outs of wave manipulation in your lane? How do you know how to abuse a power spike if you don't know the common powerspikes of the champions played in that role relative to your own? Positioning/engaing I'll give you to a degree, but the positional needs of a tank top laner and a hypercarry vary greatly. And how do you know where to ward in a lane that you're unfamiliar with? Take for example the safe ward you see players place slightly outside of tribrush in river on bot side if the enemy jungler has a good level 2 gank, so you can see it before it comes, that's something I know about from playing 1000s of games as support, however I know next to nothing about warding times/locations for top lane.
And that's all just differences from lane and says nothing about a jungler to a laner or a laner to a jungler.
no, you do in fact pick up all of that as you play. you can't play against it effectively if you don't learn it yourself. every time you have a teammate that does something that irritates you, you know immediately not to do that if you get filled.
This may just be my old man views talking, but I don’t think being ok at many things makes you better than someone who is very good at one thing. Like in star craft everyone agreed that someone with only three builds (one for each race) who played all of those to a diamond and level was better than someone who knew 9 builds (three for each race) but could only play any of them to a gold level. And I think that’s true even for the people with one build who 6 pooled, or cannon rushed, or 4 gated in every match up. You are as good as the best thing you can reliably do.
Edit: man, I bet kids these days don’t even know what a six pool is, what with starting with 12 workers and all that nonsense
Can we go back to nobody posting anything? I liked that time a lot more.
Have you guys collectively hit your head?
The ranked system can only ever account for things you actually play, how is it even relevant what the riven one trick would do if he had to play support 10 games in a row. Do you want to force people to play offrole? Nobody fucking cares what happens if you are forced to play another role regularly, it's a stupid theoretical scenario and almost all people would quit if that happens. Your rank now automatically shows your ranking of getting your main 9 out of 10 times and being autofilled 1 of 10. Just because in your stupid opinion you should be judged by something that is never relevant doesn't mean the system is flawed, it's your brain that is flawed.
Yes, pregame griefing is a thing of the past, I might get a PB troll maybe once in 50 games, it's pretty rare. Never been held hostage since the new PB was brought out. People demanding roles, then feeding was also one of the biggest tilters in the game.
I like the new PB, just not this idea. This is basically a reward for people who are good at one or two roles. I also don't see how they can effectively accommodate for all the scenarios. Like the blog points out that a high elo player might ask to switch to his main, effectively putting his team at a massive advantage. Even if the system is able to 'detect' this, it basically makes this whole concept of position ranks moot, you're already in champ select. It would also need a fairly large sample size to figure out the behavior of a player: totally open to exploitation if you figure out how things work under the hood until the system catches on.
Also, I finally own every champion in this god damn game. Totally forgot I could use champion shards for blue essence, I had over 40k stacked up.
On January 19 2019 00:15 General_Winter wrote: This may just be my old man views talking, but I don’t think being ok at many things makes you better than someone who is very good at one thing. Like in star craft everyone agreed that someone with only three builds (one for each race) who played all of those to a diamond and level was better than someone who knew 9 builds (three for each race) but could only play any of them to a gold level. And I think that’s true even for the people with one build who 6 pooled or cannon rushed, or 4 gated in every match up. You are as good as the best thing you can reliably do.
I think it's different in LoL because it's a team game with distinct roles, which means there are a lot things that might seem meaningless to one role, but are very important to others. I'm not saying you can't learn those things without playing other roles, but you'll learn them much faster like that. I mean stuff like: - non-junlgers with jungler experience being better at warding due to knowing how jungle camps work - junglers with laner experience having easier time understanding why their laners might choose not to help them when they're getting invaded. - junglers with no idea about lane management sometimes doing more harm than good when visiting the lane.
I must add that your example was one of the worst aspects of starcraft (or at least its ladder system) in my opinion. Diamond cannon rusher isn't better than platinum player if he can beat him only in the first game of a bo9.
What I like about LoL is that it's not possible to cannon rush yourself to diamond league in this game.
On January 19 2019 01:31 Sent. wrote: What I like about LoL is that it's not possible to cannon rush yourself to diamond league in this game.
Tell that to the random boosting strat Riot has to nerf in the following patch.
or to the skill shots scripts with which you can be in bronze in game knowledge but if you are able to hit skillshots and not getting hit you can reach master, maybe even challenger
On January 19 2019 01:31 Sent. wrote: What I like about LoL is that it's not possible to cannon rush yourself to diamond league in this game.
Tell that to the random boosting strat Riot has to nerf in the following patch.
or to the skill shots scripts with which you can be in bronze in game knowledge but if you are able to hit skillshots and not getting hit you can reach master, maybe even challenger
That's exaggerated, I don't think there's anyone that bad in masters. But there are some people who are pretty close to what you're thinking, like rat Irl.
On January 19 2019 00:54 loSleb wrote: Can we go back to nobody posting anything? I liked that time a lot more.
Have you guys collectively hit your head?
The ranked system can only ever account for things you actually play, how is it even relevant what the riven one trick would do if he had to play support 10 games in a row. Do you want to force people to play offrole? Nobody fucking cares what happens if you are forced to play another role regularly, it's a stupid theoretical scenario and almost all people would quit if that happens. Your rank now automatically shows your ranking of getting your main 9 out of 10 times and being autofilled 1 of 10. Just because in your stupid opinion you should be judged by something that is never relevant doesn't mean the system is flawed, it's your brain that is flawed.
Yes I do want to force people to play offrole.
On January 19 2019 01:06 DarkCore wrote: Yes, pregame griefing is a thing of the past, I might get a PB troll maybe once in 50 games, it's pretty rare. Never been held hostage since the new PB was brought out. People demanding roles, then feeding was also one of the biggest tilters in the game.
I like the new PB, just not this idea. This is basically a reward for people who are good at one or two roles. I also don't see how they can effectively accommodate for all the scenarios. Like the blog points out that a high elo player might ask to switch to his main, effectively putting his team at a massive advantage. Even if the system is able to 'detect' this, it basically makes this whole concept of position ranks moot, you're already in champ select. It would also need a fairly large sample size to figure out the behavior of a player: totally open to exploitation if you figure out how things work under the hood until the system catches on.
Also, I finally own every champion in this god damn game. Totally forgot I could use champion shards for blue essence, I had over 40k stacked up.
I was always mad at Riot for focusing on ingame swearing and text-based griefing when they did nothing to Pick-Ban trolling which was 50x the problem of being called a crackhead in game. Then they "fixed" pick/ban stuff by implementing a system I don't particularly enjoy, and also dont think is all that good.
I do miss back in the day when everyone had a semblance of understanding of every role. So many players today have no idea about the game side from their own microcosm. Like, the are players that have never jungled once, and just don't understand how the role works, and it blows my mind.
On January 19 2019 05:06 iCanada wrote: I do miss back in the day when everyone had a semblance of understanding of every role. So many players today have no idea about the game side from their own microcosm. Like, the are players that have never jungled once, and just don't understand how the role works, and it blows my mind.
lul
i got to top 200 ladder rankings back in like season 2 with having never played adc/mid lane more than probably 10 times in ranked
if you were high pick you got your role or at least 2nd else you got support or asked for it if you didnt get your other roles. Most of the time you did have to play support you were last pick or close which meant you were the lowest elo on the team, so it was enough not to int to have an edge over the enemy team since they were also low elo and didn't want to support and a lot of them would tilt about it, trollpick or pick blitz (was super common for people who didn't want to support but blitz wasn't a "real support" so it helped their ego)
autofill system makes you play offroles way more than the old days
i'm way more versatile now than i ever was just dicking around in 5's playing other roles but I don't think it makes me a better player in general for having played other roles. all it does is make me better at playing those roles
the only time I ever improved significantly was by onetricking a champ/role for like 50 games minimum. Having a good streak of games on multiple champs just makes you feel more skilled because of the diverse ways you've won but it's just a lie.
like playing lanes as a jungler occasionally you can understand a lane matchup a bit more but probably won't help your jungling at all. Even if you know you'd have to gank to relieve pressure on a certain lane most of the time your decisions are limited by the same constraints so you wouldn't play much differently.
On January 19 2019 00:54 loSleb wrote: Can we go back to nobody posting anything? I liked that time a lot more.
Have you guys collectively hit your head?
The ranked system can only ever account for things you actually play, how is it even relevant what the riven one trick would do if he had to play support 10 games in a row. Do you want to force people to play offrole? Nobody fucking cares what happens if you are forced to play another role regularly, it's a stupid theoretical scenario and almost all people would quit if that happens. Your rank now automatically shows your ranking of getting your main 9 out of 10 times and being autofilled 1 of 10. Just because in your stupid opinion you should be judged by something that is never relevant doesn't mean the system is flawed, it's your brain that is flawed.
On January 19 2019 01:06 DarkCore wrote: Yes, pregame griefing is a thing of the past, I might get a PB troll maybe once in 50 games, it's pretty rare. Never been held hostage since the new PB was brought out. People demanding roles, then feeding was also one of the biggest tilters in the game.
I like the new PB, just not this idea. This is basically a reward for people who are good at one or two roles. I also don't see how they can effectively accommodate for all the scenarios. Like the blog points out that a high elo player might ask to switch to his main, effectively putting his team at a massive advantage. Even if the system is able to 'detect' this, it basically makes this whole concept of position ranks moot, you're already in champ select. It would also need a fairly large sample size to figure out the behavior of a player: totally open to exploitation if you figure out how things work under the hood until the system catches on.
Also, I finally own every champion in this god damn game. Totally forgot I could use champion shards for blue essence, I had over 40k stacked up.
I was always mad at Riot for focusing on ingame swearing and text-based griefing when they did nothing to Pick-Ban trolling which was 50x the problem of being called a crackhead in game. Then they "fixed" pick/ban stuff by implementing a system I don't particularly enjoy, and also dont think is all that good.
"Griefing" in champ select forces you to play offrole so you should be a fan of that imo.
On January 19 2019 00:54 loSleb wrote: Can we go back to nobody posting anything? I liked that time a lot more.
Have you guys collectively hit your head?
The ranked system can only ever account for things you actually play, how is it even relevant what the riven one trick would do if he had to play support 10 games in a row. Do you want to force people to play offrole? Nobody fucking cares what happens if you are forced to play another role regularly, it's a stupid theoretical scenario and almost all people would quit if that happens. Your rank now automatically shows your ranking of getting your main 9 out of 10 times and being autofilled 1 of 10. Just because in your stupid opinion you should be judged by something that is never relevant doesn't mean the system is flawed, it's your brain that is flawed.
On January 19 2019 01:06 DarkCore wrote: Yes, pregame griefing is a thing of the past, I might get a PB troll maybe once in 50 games, it's pretty rare. Never been held hostage since the new PB was brought out. People demanding roles, then feeding was also one of the biggest tilters in the game.
I like the new PB, just not this idea. This is basically a reward for people who are good at one or two roles. I also don't see how they can effectively accommodate for all the scenarios. Like the blog points out that a high elo player might ask to switch to his main, effectively putting his team at a massive advantage. Even if the system is able to 'detect' this, it basically makes this whole concept of position ranks moot, you're already in champ select. It would also need a fairly large sample size to figure out the behavior of a player: totally open to exploitation if you figure out how things work under the hood until the system catches on.
Also, I finally own every champion in this god damn game. Totally forgot I could use champion shards for blue essence, I had over 40k stacked up.
I was always mad at Riot for focusing on ingame swearing and text-based griefing when they did nothing to Pick-Ban trolling which was 50x the problem of being called a crackhead in game. Then they "fixed" pick/ban stuff by implementing a system I don't particularly enjoy, and also dont think is all that good.
out of interest, would you consider yourself to be a conservative or libertarian type person? (like right-wing)
That's an interesting idea. But it's a bit like your dad getting you to do yardwork to build character. You don't want to do it and it's not even clear if it really works or not. And unlike your dad, you don't have to do what rito tells you to, so it wouldn't make sense to reduce player satisfaction as a weird gamble to make people flame less because they understand each other.
If anything, being better at other roles usually makes them more irate, because know what you're doing and think it's terrible and they could do a way better job. (that's also what your dad thinks about your yardwork)
it's my personal opinion that people need to stop looking outwards at rito and start looking within. With some deep introspection and application of emotional intelligence you can reach league nirvana where you embrace the flame and savour it just as you savour a well played teamfight.
On January 19 2019 06:40 Slayer91 wrote: That's an interesting idea. But it's a bit like your dad getting you to do yardwork to build character. You don't want to do it and it's not even clear if it really works or not. And unlike your dad, you don't have to do what rito tells you to, so it wouldn't make sense to reduce player satisfaction as a weird gamble to make people flame less because they understand each other.
If anything, being better at other roles usually makes them more irate, because know what you're doing and think it's terrible and they could do a way better job. (that's also what your dad thinks about your yardwork)
it's my personal opinion that people need to stop looking outwards at rito and start looking within. With some deep introspection and application of emotional intelligence you can reach league nirvana where you embrace the flame and savour it just as you savour a well played teamfight.
Wtf are you on, that last paragraph lol. We a cult now?
The current system allows for both specialists and off role players to shine, hence I don't understand the change. If you are a god midlaner, you win a lot of games, and your inability to play other roles pulls you down to reality. If you're good at the game in general, you have smaller highs but fewer lows. With the proposed system, the specialist's lows are punished far less, while the general player gets... No reward? Hard games all the time?
And I have so many questions:is this system the same across all MMR ratings? I can partly agree to the system if you're in the lower divisions, but master and challenger are supposed to be the best of the best, they should either know the game the best or be extremely good specialists.
On January 19 2019 06:40 Slayer91 wrote: That's an interesting idea. But it's a bit like your dad getting you to do yardwork to build character. You don't want to do it and it's not even clear if it really works or not. And unlike your dad, you don't have to do what rito tells you to, so it wouldn't make sense to reduce player satisfaction as a weird gamble to make people flame less because they understand each other.
If anything, being better at other roles usually makes them more irate, because know what you're doing and think it's terrible and they could do a way better job. (that's also what your dad thinks about your yardwork)
it's my personal opinion that people need to stop looking outwards at rito and start looking within. With some deep introspection and application of emotional intelligence you can reach league nirvana where you embrace the flame and savour it just as you savour a well played teamfight.
Wtf are you on, that last paragraph lol. We a cult now?
The last paragraph is actually the most serious of that post.
On January 19 2019 06:40 Slayer91 wrote: That's an interesting idea. But it's a bit like your dad getting you to do yardwork to build character. You don't want to do it and it's not even clear if it really works or not. And unlike your dad, you don't have to do what rito tells you to, so it wouldn't make sense to reduce player satisfaction as a weird gamble to make people flame less because they understand each other.
If anything, being better at other roles usually makes them more irate, because know what you're doing and think it's terrible and they could do a way better job. (that's also what your dad thinks about your yardwork)
it's my personal opinion that people need to stop looking outwards at rito and start looking within. With some deep introspection and application of emotional intelligence you can reach league nirvana where you embrace the flame and savour it just as you savour a well played teamfight.
Wtf are you on, that last paragraph lol. We a cult now?
The current system allows for both specialists and off role players to shine, hence I don't understand the change. If you are a god midlaner, you win a lot of games, and your inability to play other roles pulls you down to reality. If you're good at the game in general, you have smaller highs but fewer lows. With the proposed system, the specialist's lows are punished far less, while the general player gets... No reward? Hard games all the time?
If you are actually good you are AT LEAST master level. This means everyone knows you and more often than not someone will let you have mid regardless.
On January 19 2019 06:40 Slayer91 wrote: That's an interesting idea. But it's a bit like your dad getting you to do yardwork to build character. You don't want to do it and it's not even clear if it really works or not. And unlike your dad, you don't have to do what rito tells you to, so it wouldn't make sense to reduce player satisfaction as a weird gamble to make people flame less because they understand each other.
If anything, being better at other roles usually makes them more irate, because know what you're doing and think it's terrible and they could do a way better job. (that's also what your dad thinks about your yardwork)
it's my personal opinion that people need to stop looking outwards at rito and start looking within. With some deep introspection and application of emotional intelligence you can reach league nirvana where you embrace the flame and savour it just as you savour a well played teamfight.
Wtf are you on, that last paragraph lol. We a cult now?
The last paragraph is actually the most serious of that post.
Idk mate, the other paragraphs gave me some real flashbacks as well.
League Nirvana is only attainable at diamond 5/4 though.
On January 19 2019 06:40 Slayer91 wrote: That's an interesting idea. But it's a bit like your dad getting you to do yardwork to build character. You don't want to do it and it's not even clear if it really works or not. And unlike your dad, you don't have to do what rito tells you to, so it wouldn't make sense to reduce player satisfaction as a weird gamble to make people flame less because they understand each other.
If anything, being better at other roles usually makes them more irate, because know what you're doing and think it's terrible and they could do a way better job. (that's also what your dad thinks about your yardwork)
it's my personal opinion that people need to stop looking outwards at rito and start looking within. With some deep introspection and application of emotional intelligence you can reach league nirvana where you embrace the flame and savour it just as you savour a well played teamfight.
Wtf are you on, that last paragraph lol. We a cult now?
The last paragraph is actually the most serious of that post.
Idk mate, the other paragraphs gave me some real flashbacks as well.
League Nirvana is only attainable at diamond 5/4 though.
Oh no I'm gatekept from nirvana what sins have I commited in my previous life to condemn me so
On January 19 2019 06:40 Slayer91 wrote: That's an interesting idea. But it's a bit like your dad getting you to do yardwork to build character. You don't want to do it and it's not even clear if it really works or not. And unlike your dad, you don't have to do what rito tells you to, so it wouldn't make sense to reduce player satisfaction as a weird gamble to make people flame less because they understand each other.
If anything, being better at other roles usually makes them more irate, because know what you're doing and think it's terrible and they could do a way better job. (that's also what your dad thinks about your yardwork)
it's my personal opinion that people need to stop looking outwards at rito and start looking within. With some deep introspection and application of emotional intelligence you can reach league nirvana where you embrace the flame and savour it just as you savour a well played teamfight.
Wtf are you on, that last paragraph lol. We a cult now?
The last paragraph is actually the most serious of that post.
Idk mate, the other paragraphs gave me some real flashbacks as well.
League Nirvana is only attainable at diamond 5/4 though.
i didnt say they werent serious i'm actually a very serious guy
On January 19 2019 06:40 Slayer91 wrote: That's an interesting idea. But it's a bit like your dad getting you to do yardwork to build character. You don't want to do it and it's not even clear if it really works or not. And unlike your dad, you don't have to do what rito tells you to, so it wouldn't make sense to reduce player satisfaction as a weird gamble to make people flame less because they understand each other.
If anything, being better at other roles usually makes them more irate, because know what you're doing and think it's terrible and they could do a way better job. (that's also what your dad thinks about your yardwork)
it's my personal opinion that people need to stop looking outwards at rito and start looking within. With some deep introspection and application of emotional intelligence you can reach league nirvana where you embrace the flame and savour it just as you savour a well played teamfight.
Wtf are you on, that last paragraph lol. We a cult now?
The last paragraph is actually the most serious of that post.
Idk mate, the other paragraphs gave me some real flashbacks as well.
League Nirvana is only attainable at diamond 5/4 though.
Oh no I'm gatekept from nirvana what sins have I commited in my previous life to condemn me so
On January 19 2019 00:54 loSleb wrote: Can we go back to nobody posting anything? I liked that time a lot more.
Have you guys collectively hit your head?
The ranked system can only ever account for things you actually play, how is it even relevant what the riven one trick would do if he had to play support 10 games in a row. Do you want to force people to play offrole? Nobody fucking cares what happens if you are forced to play another role regularly, it's a stupid theoretical scenario and almost all people would quit if that happens. Your rank now automatically shows your ranking of getting your main 9 out of 10 times and being autofilled 1 of 10. Just because in your stupid opinion you should be judged by something that is never relevant doesn't mean the system is flawed, it's your brain that is flawed.
Yes I do want to force people to play offrole.
On January 19 2019 01:06 DarkCore wrote: Yes, pregame griefing is a thing of the past, I might get a PB troll maybe once in 50 games, it's pretty rare. Never been held hostage since the new PB was brought out. People demanding roles, then feeding was also one of the biggest tilters in the game.
I like the new PB, just not this idea. This is basically a reward for people who are good at one or two roles. I also don't see how they can effectively accommodate for all the scenarios. Like the blog points out that a high elo player might ask to switch to his main, effectively putting his team at a massive advantage. Even if the system is able to 'detect' this, it basically makes this whole concept of position ranks moot, you're already in champ select. It would also need a fairly large sample size to figure out the behavior of a player: totally open to exploitation if you figure out how things work under the hood until the system catches on.
Also, I finally own every champion in this god damn game. Totally forgot I could use champion shards for blue essence, I had over 40k stacked up.
I was always mad at Riot for focusing on ingame swearing and text-based griefing when they did nothing to Pick-Ban trolling which was 50x the problem of being called a crackhead in game. Then they "fixed" pick/ban stuff by implementing a system I don't particularly enjoy, and also dont think is all that good.
"Griefing" in champ select forces you to play offrole so you should be a fan of that imo.
That makes no sense. Griefing gets crybabies out of offroles and puts non crybabies into offroles. It in no way lessens offroleness.
On January 19 2019 00:54 loSleb wrote: Can we go back to nobody posting anything? I liked that time a lot more.
Have you guys collectively hit your head?
The ranked system can only ever account for things you actually play, how is it even relevant what the riven one trick would do if he had to play support 10 games in a row. Do you want to force people to play offrole? Nobody fucking cares what happens if you are forced to play another role regularly, it's a stupid theoretical scenario and almost all people would quit if that happens. Your rank now automatically shows your ranking of getting your main 9 out of 10 times and being autofilled 1 of 10. Just because in your stupid opinion you should be judged by something that is never relevant doesn't mean the system is flawed, it's your brain that is flawed.
Yes I do want to force people to play offrole.
On January 19 2019 01:06 DarkCore wrote: Yes, pregame griefing is a thing of the past, I might get a PB troll maybe once in 50 games, it's pretty rare. Never been held hostage since the new PB was brought out. People demanding roles, then feeding was also one of the biggest tilters in the game.
I like the new PB, just not this idea. This is basically a reward for people who are good at one or two roles. I also don't see how they can effectively accommodate for all the scenarios. Like the blog points out that a high elo player might ask to switch to his main, effectively putting his team at a massive advantage. Even if the system is able to 'detect' this, it basically makes this whole concept of position ranks moot, you're already in champ select. It would also need a fairly large sample size to figure out the behavior of a player: totally open to exploitation if you figure out how things work under the hood until the system catches on.
Also, I finally own every champion in this god damn game. Totally forgot I could use champion shards for blue essence, I had over 40k stacked up.
I was always mad at Riot for focusing on ingame swearing and text-based griefing when they did nothing to Pick-Ban trolling which was 50x the problem of being called a crackhead in game. Then they "fixed" pick/ban stuff by implementing a system I don't particularly enjoy, and also dont think is all that good.
out of interest, would you consider yourself to be a conservative or libertarian type person? (like right-wing)
On January 19 2019 00:54 loSleb wrote: Can we go back to nobody posting anything? I liked that time a lot more.
Have you guys collectively hit your head?
The ranked system can only ever account for things you actually play, how is it even relevant what the riven one trick would do if he had to play support 10 games in a row. Do you want to force people to play offrole? Nobody fucking cares what happens if you are forced to play another role regularly, it's a stupid theoretical scenario and almost all people would quit if that happens. Your rank now automatically shows your ranking of getting your main 9 out of 10 times and being autofilled 1 of 10. Just because in your stupid opinion you should be judged by something that is never relevant doesn't mean the system is flawed, it's your brain that is flawed.
its relevant because it ruins the gaming experience for his teammates? its no exaggeration when i say 4 out of 5 games will have an autofilled player on your team. when the game becomes a contest of "which autofilled can suck less" then its a pretty crap experience overall. i mean, most korean soloq players from gold all the way up to challenger does this. the moment they get matched they look up fow.kr or op.gg and look at who the autofilled players are. if youre a mid with no lane priority and 2 and a half minutes in your autofilled jg dies contesting scuttle and rages at you, its a tilting experience overall. hence the issue with positional ranked; you have to carry harder when youre on your mains and even if you do win it inflates your rank to a point where when youre not playing your main youre a liability to your team
On January 19 2019 00:54 loSleb wrote: Can we go back to nobody posting anything? I liked that time a lot more.
Have you guys collectively hit your head?
The ranked system can only ever account for things you actually play, how is it even relevant what the riven one trick would do if he had to play support 10 games in a row. Do you want to force people to play offrole? Nobody fucking cares what happens if you are forced to play another role regularly, it's a stupid theoretical scenario and almost all people would quit if that happens. Your rank now automatically shows your ranking of getting your main 9 out of 10 times and being autofilled 1 of 10. Just because in your stupid opinion you should be judged by something that is never relevant doesn't mean the system is flawed, it's your brain that is flawed.
Yes I do want to force people to play offrole.
On January 19 2019 01:06 DarkCore wrote: Yes, pregame griefing is a thing of the past, I might get a PB troll maybe once in 50 games, it's pretty rare. Never been held hostage since the new PB was brought out. People demanding roles, then feeding was also one of the biggest tilters in the game.
I like the new PB, just not this idea. This is basically a reward for people who are good at one or two roles. I also don't see how they can effectively accommodate for all the scenarios. Like the blog points out that a high elo player might ask to switch to his main, effectively putting his team at a massive advantage. Even if the system is able to 'detect' this, it basically makes this whole concept of position ranks moot, you're already in champ select. It would also need a fairly large sample size to figure out the behavior of a player: totally open to exploitation if you figure out how things work under the hood until the system catches on.
Also, I finally own every champion in this god damn game. Totally forgot I could use champion shards for blue essence, I had over 40k stacked up.
I was always mad at Riot for focusing on ingame swearing and text-based griefing when they did nothing to Pick-Ban trolling which was 50x the problem of being called a crackhead in game. Then they "fixed" pick/ban stuff by implementing a system I don't particularly enjoy, and also dont think is all that good.
"Griefing" in champ select forces you to play offrole so you should be a fan of that imo.
That makes no sense. Griefing gets crybabies out of offroles and puts non crybabies into offroles. It in no way lessens offroleness.
On January 19 2019 00:54 loSleb wrote: Can we go back to nobody posting anything? I liked that time a lot more.
Have you guys collectively hit your head?
The ranked system can only ever account for things you actually play, how is it even relevant what the riven one trick would do if he had to play support 10 games in a row. Do you want to force people to play offrole? Nobody fucking cares what happens if you are forced to play another role regularly, it's a stupid theoretical scenario and almost all people would quit if that happens. Your rank now automatically shows your ranking of getting your main 9 out of 10 times and being autofilled 1 of 10. Just because in your stupid opinion you should be judged by something that is never relevant doesn't mean the system is flawed, it's your brain that is flawed.
Yes I do want to force people to play offrole.
On January 19 2019 01:06 DarkCore wrote: Yes, pregame griefing is a thing of the past, I might get a PB troll maybe once in 50 games, it's pretty rare. Never been held hostage since the new PB was brought out. People demanding roles, then feeding was also one of the biggest tilters in the game.
I like the new PB, just not this idea. This is basically a reward for people who are good at one or two roles. I also don't see how they can effectively accommodate for all the scenarios. Like the blog points out that a high elo player might ask to switch to his main, effectively putting his team at a massive advantage. Even if the system is able to 'detect' this, it basically makes this whole concept of position ranks moot, you're already in champ select. It would also need a fairly large sample size to figure out the behavior of a player: totally open to exploitation if you figure out how things work under the hood until the system catches on.
Also, I finally own every champion in this god damn game. Totally forgot I could use champion shards for blue essence, I had over 40k stacked up.
I was always mad at Riot for focusing on ingame swearing and text-based griefing when they did nothing to Pick-Ban trolling which was 50x the problem of being called a crackhead in game. Then they "fixed" pick/ban stuff by implementing a system I don't particularly enjoy, and also dont think is all that good.
out of interest, would you consider yourself to be a conservative or libertarian type person? (like right-wing)
Huh? I suppose.
I made an inference on your personality based on your opinion. (Your opinion to me indicates high orderliness which predicts right wing political stance)
I was trying to figure out where you're coming from. There isn't really a direct logical reason to want people to play off-roles, you can try to rationalise it with that stuff about being more understanding or something but I think it comes from a sort of philosophy about how people should be.
To go back to the dad and teenage son analogy, the kid always just wants to do one thing play games/race cars/play guitar/go out with friends until etc. and the dad gets on his ass all the time about getting a job, getting a girlfriend, career plan, wake up early, be able to fix your own car, maintain the house, keep a tidy room etc.
It's kind of a typical republican/libertarian mindset that a man should be independent self-sufficient and capable. In other words, he should have a versatile skillset and be responsible rather than just doing the bare minimum and focusing only on what you want to do.
I believe you're applying this philosophy to league where "A player should be able to play all roles" because it's in a way, more responsible to his teammates, they'll get a decent player every game, whereas if you're really good most of the time on your main, sometimes you get something you're bad at, and it's nobody's fault but your team has to suffer. It's the same idea as everyone carrying their own weight in society. The more left wing idea would be to let people do as they want and get along, if someone is struggling the stronger should help out.
The dad/son analogy comes from the fact that people tend to become more conservative/right wing as they get older so the average dad was probably a degenerate kid for his fair share of time, didn't particularly respect himself then and doesn't want his own kids to be like that.
Just some ideas I'm bouncing around, I actually believe way more in that stuff I wrote about league nirvana.
On January 19 2019 00:54 loSleb wrote: Can we go back to nobody posting anything? I liked that time a lot more.
Have you guys collectively hit your head?
The ranked system can only ever account for things you actually play, how is it even relevant what the riven one trick would do if he had to play support 10 games in a row. Do you want to force people to play offrole? Nobody fucking cares what happens if you are forced to play another role regularly, it's a stupid theoretical scenario and almost all people would quit if that happens. Your rank now automatically shows your ranking of getting your main 9 out of 10 times and being autofilled 1 of 10. Just because in your stupid opinion you should be judged by something that is never relevant doesn't mean the system is flawed, it's your brain that is flawed.
its relevant because it ruins the gaming experience for his teammates? its no exaggeration when i say 4 out of 5 games will have an autofilled player on your team. when the game becomes a contest of "which autofilled can suck less" then its a pretty crap experience overall. i mean, most korean soloq players from gold all the way up to challenger does this. the moment they get matched they look up fow.kr or op.gg and look at who the autofilled players are. if youre a mid with no lane priority and 2 and a half minutes in your autofilled jg dies contesting scuttle and rages at you, its a tilting experience overall. hence the issue with positional ranked; you have to carry harder when youre on your mains and even if you do win it inflates your rank to a point where when youre not playing your main youre a liability to your team
How can this be true, it can't both be "autofilled player difference" AND "jungler difference"
I mean, this is a valid point in concept but by no means is it not an exaggeration. It's one of the biggest exaggerations I've seen in this forum in a while and that's saying something.
"which player can suck less" is a typical excuse people make for losing games because they weren't able to outplay their counterpart. So you were evenly matched but someone on your team wasn't and the enemy team won? Well no shit, if you don't have the power to make the difference in your team obviously someone else on the two sides will. Except when it's your team mate that wins his matchup you probably give yourself more credit and when it's your team mate that loses it's all his fault and there's nothing you can do.
It's not like non autofilled players don't lose hard as well. League is a very snowbally game
On January 19 2019 00:54 loSleb wrote: Can we go back to nobody posting anything? I liked that time a lot more.
Have you guys collectively hit your head?
The ranked system can only ever account for things you actually play, how is it even relevant what the riven one trick would do if he had to play support 10 games in a row. Do you want to force people to play offrole? Nobody fucking cares what happens if you are forced to play another role regularly, it's a stupid theoretical scenario and almost all people would quit if that happens. Your rank now automatically shows your ranking of getting your main 9 out of 10 times and being autofilled 1 of 10. Just because in your stupid opinion you should be judged by something that is never relevant doesn't mean the system is flawed, it's your brain that is flawed.
its relevant because it ruins the gaming experience for his teammates? its no exaggeration when i say 4 out of 5 games will have an autofilled player on your team. when the game becomes a contest of "which autofilled can suck less" then its a pretty crap experience overall. i mean, most korean soloq players from gold all the way up to challenger does this. the moment they get matched they look up fow.kr or op.gg and look at who the autofilled players are. if youre a mid with no lane priority and 2 and a half minutes in your autofilled jg dies contesting scuttle and rages at you, its a tilting experience overall. hence the issue with positional ranked; you have to carry harder when youre on your mains and even if you do win it inflates your rank to a point where when youre not playing your main youre a liability to your team
How can this be true, it can't both be "autofilled player difference" AND "jungler difference"
I mean, this is a valid point in concept but by no means is it not an exaggeration. It's one of the biggest exaggerations I've seen in this forum in a while and that's saying something.
"which player can suck less" is a typical excuse people make for losing games because they weren't able to outplay their counterpart. So you were evenly matched but someone on your team wasn't and the enemy team won? Well no shit, if you don't have the power to make the difference in your team obviously someone else on the two sides will. Except when it's your team mate that wins his matchup you probably give yourself more credit and when it's your team mate that loses it's all his fault and there's nothing you can do.
It's not like non autofilled players don't lose hard as well. League is a very snowbally game
On January 19 2019 14:03 evilfatsh1t wrote: hence the issue with positional ranked; you have to carry harder when youre on your mains and even if you do win it inflates your rank to a point where when youre not playing your main youre a liability to your team
So can you explain how this makes sense?? Let's go through the systems to date.
OLD SYSTEM: High elo's get higher picks, thus if you filled you might play worse but had less of an expectation from the team as you were the lowest ranked and probably didn't get your preferred role. OK but lots of arguments. CURRENT SYSTEM: You mostly get your main roles, if you get filled it kinda sucks for your team, because of your point which is that you are better on your main which punishes your team if you don't get your main. PROPOSED SYSTEM: You mostly get your main roles, if you don't you get a game in an elo adjusted to your rank on that autofilled role.
Proposed system is addressing exactly the problem you think it causes.
The reason people are complaining, is that obviously a diamond player who gets filled to support won't be a gold level player on a support role, so then it fucks up matchmaking until you've played SO many autofilled games that your actual elo is reflected on all roles. (And probably not a big difference between each)
Actually on the dad trying to get the kid to do things.. It may be that he was a degenerate himself as a kid, but order and discipline should not be underestimated as fundamentals of your identity. It'll make your life so much easier, even if you don't understand why you need to do it as a kid, it'll pay off in the end I'm sure, unless the dad did in such a bad way the kid has left over daddy issues from the whole chore experience.
And @ you vs tour team argument: yeah the best thing to do is just tell yourself that you should be able to carry the situation. Actual good players hard carry their team all the time when smurfing from unranked all the way to their actual level. It's only VERY rarely that circumtances tilt the entire situation to be uncarryable, so you see them going 30-3 or something before they get a 66% winrate.. Look to yourself and analyze your vods. And not glance ovet them, but critically, because it'll probably reveal way more than you initially want to admit to.
On January 19 2019 20:47 Uldridge wrote: Actually on the dad trying to get the kid to do things.. It may be that he was a degenerate himself as a kid, but order and discipline should not be underestimated as fundamentals of your identity. It'll make your life so much easier, even if you don't understand why you need to do it as a kid, it'll pay off in the end I'm sure, unless the dad did in such a bad way the kid has left over daddy issues from the whole chore experience.
I already addressed this btw.
"The dad/son analogy comes from the fact that people tend to become more conservative/right wing as they get older so the average dad was probably a degenerate kid for his fair share of time, didn't particularly respect himself then and doesn't want his own kids to be like that."
Interesting to think that it could be mostly wasted effort as the kids personality will morph as he matures anyway and the dad can just take credit for him putting in groundwork lol. On the other hand forcing structure on someone is a good way to keep them on the straight and narrow until they do mature a bit.
On January 19 2019 20:47 Uldridge wrote: And @ you vs tour team argument: yeah the best thing to do is just tell yourself that you should be able to carry the situation. Actual good players hard carry their team all the time when smurfing from unranked all the way to their actual level. It's only VERY rarely that circumtances tilt the entire situation to be uncarryable, so you see them going 30-3 or something before they get a 66% winrate.. Look to yourself and analyze your vods. And not glance ovet them, but critically, because it'll probably reveal way more than you initially want to admit to.
but this is difficult and forces you to admit your weaknesses and look for ways to improve, while blaming your team is faster, easier and you don't have to change.
I was reiterating your "dad was a degenerate himself" bit. I think most of your core values are molded into you from very early on, and maturing is heavily overrated. It mostly happens because you get more and more constricted because of responsibilities (kids, bills, relationships, work). You'll either have the values or you won't and being an adult will be that much easier if you have them because you won't need to spend an inordinate amount of convincing yourself to stop procrastinating or prioritizing or needing to be tidy/organized. It's insane how much adulthood ramps up in needing orderliness as you get from your 20s to your 30s if you have a "traditional" kind of life (family/9-5 job/..)
On January 19 2019 20:46 Slayer91 wrote: o can you explain how this makes sense?? Let's go through the systems to date.
OLD SYSTEM: High elo's get higher picks, thus if you filled you might play worse but had less of an expectation from the team as you were the lowest ranked and probably didn't get your preferred role. OK but lots of arguments. CURRENT SYSTEM: You mostly get your main roles, if you get filled it kinda sucks for your team, because of your point which is that you are better on your main which punishes your team if you don't get your main. PROPOSED SYSTEM: You mostly get your main roles, if you don't you get a game in an elo adjusted to your rank on that autofilled role.
There's one other one. Old system where high elos didn't get higher picks and it was random instead.
So if ppl want to go to the "old" system, then it should be decided which one that is.
On January 19 2019 20:46 Slayer91 wrote: o can you explain how this makes sense?? Let's go through the systems to date.
OLD SYSTEM: High elo's get higher picks, thus if you filled you might play worse but had less of an expectation from the team as you were the lowest ranked and probably didn't get your preferred role. OK but lots of arguments. CURRENT SYSTEM: You mostly get your main roles, if you get filled it kinda sucks for your team, because of your point which is that you are better on your main which punishes your team if you don't get your main. PROPOSED SYSTEM: You mostly get your main roles, if you don't you get a game in an elo adjusted to your rank on that autofilled role.
There's one other one. Old system where high elos didn't get higher picks and it was random instead.
So if ppl want to go to the "old" system, then it should be decided which one that is.
don't really remember that but sounds like bad news bears for sure it was probably between old system and current? I guess the idea was to be more egalitarian but that was also the idea behind communist russia
On January 19 2019 21:08 Uldridge wrote: I was reiterating your "dad was a degenerate himself" bit. I think most of your core values are molded into you from very early on, and maturing is heavily overrated. It mostly happens because you get more and more constricted because of responsibilities (kids, bills, relationships, work). You'll either have the values or you won't and being an adult will be that much easier if you have them because you won't need to spend an inordinate amount of convincing yourself to stop procrastinating or prioritizing or needing to be tidy/organized. It's insane how much adulthood ramps up in needing orderliness as you get from your 20s to your 30s if you have a "traditional" kind of life (family/9-5 job/..)
I mean that's basically nature vs nuture argument, from what I understand it's probably mostly nature? Core values are probably just a meme but you have similar personality to your parents and the ones that don't probably are the ones who have the most trouble with their parents because they try harder to "mold" their kids who want none of it.
but who knows im not a scientist
Probably true about that stuff about responsibilities being forced on you making you change your personality. The more shit you have to handle the less energy you have to play games all day
I mean the genetics factor which affect the propensity towards obsessive behavior or being more nonchalant is defenitely a thing, but I'm quite sure nurture has a strong effect, since you construct your value system in a social context, not individually; its always based on some sort of relationship to something. Obviously there are so many mismatches and many parents have no idea how to do it right. I believe it's also very difficult to parent correctly if you're busting your ass the entire day and then you still need to give mental and physical energy to your kid.
I mean what is a value system and how can we separate it from genetic personality?
This is a bit like saying "oh if we don't teach religion they will just have no morals" but if we exist and cooperate cross-culturally and for 1000's of years why do you think its all what your parents teach you and not genetics. What if you had shitty parents?
Society influences you from all its layers. There's actually a strong argument for why people tend to adhere to religions, seperate from morals, but thats an entirely different conversation.
I just thought of an analogy. Lets say your life is building a structure and how steady the structure is, is dependent on what kind of rope and knots you use. The quality of the rope and its attributes is inherent (genetics), while the knots you use will fortify or weaken the structure and rope (value system), also, if you have great parents they'll help you understand what kind of rope you're dealing with and show you which knots go best with said rope. Having shitty parents has incredible influence on your later stages of life. There's a reason daddy and mommy issues exist lol, and that's quite tame shit. Abusive or substance abusing parents leave a mark on everything you do for the rest of your life.
This new bounty system makes no sense to me. Was playing bot, it was a shitfest where I was 0/3 but 30-40 cs ahead while the other ad was 2/3, and somehow I was worth a 450g shutdown despite being 30-60 cs behind sololaners on both sides.
On January 19 2019 20:46 Slayer91 wrote: o can you explain how this makes sense?? Let's go through the systems to date.
OLD SYSTEM: High elo's get higher picks, thus if you filled you might play worse but had less of an expectation from the team as you were the lowest ranked and probably didn't get your preferred role. OK but lots of arguments. CURRENT SYSTEM: You mostly get your main roles, if you get filled it kinda sucks for your team, because of your point which is that you are better on your main which punishes your team if you don't get your main. PROPOSED SYSTEM: You mostly get your main roles, if you don't you get a game in an elo adjusted to your rank on that autofilled role.
There's one other one. Old system where high elos didn't get higher picks and it was random instead.
So if ppl want to go to the "old" system, then it should be decided which one that is.
I like the current system the best out of everything so far, the old one sucked because PB was so hostile, and the new one is stupid because there are so many special cases that have to be accommodated.
Ex: Not many people play support below diamond, you're basically guaranteed to get the role. Say you're climbing with a 55-60% winrate from gold, and you never have to autofill. Now you finally reach diamond, and all of a sudden you do get autofilled. What happens? Do you play top in your original gold division? Do your offrole positions scale slowly while you gain MMR? Because neither of those are any indication of your real offrole position rank, only games you play that position are. And it's offrole, so you're not playing a lot of it, meaning you need to play a lot of games before Riot has even an inkling of an idea where your real level is. The blog talks about 'splashing', which sounds nice at first, but honestly is just 'making numbers up'. By this strain of thought, might as well as just use the other in game stats like Gp5 and KDA to distribute MMR in the post-game.
Ex 2: If you suck at an offrole, like really suck, how much MMR/LP should you be losing for these games if you are good at your mains? Riot's decision on how much this is worth will basically reward certain types of players, and punish others, it's a bit arbitrary because the 'optimal' climbing method is at their discretion.
Ex 3: Like the above, only you purposefully pretend to suck at a role while carrying hard with your mains, in an attempt to game the system. If offrole games don't count as much for a loss, how much for a win? If you pretend to suck at a role, then once you reach a high enough MMR, decide to drop the act, does this allow you to blast through divisions that are supposed to be difficult to get through, like D4+, playing against lower division players?
On January 20 2019 00:27 Sent. wrote: This new bounty system makes no sense to me. Was playing bot, it was a shitfest where I was 0/3 but 30 cs ahead while the other ad was 2/3, and somehow I was worth a 450g shutdown despite being 30-60 cs behind sololaners on both sides.
There was some pro game this past week where one team was 2k ahead, but their bounties combined added up to like 3k or something. Also infamous Khan 0/2/0 and 300g down, but still having a 700g bounty. It basically means that snowballing is a risk in itself, because the counter snowball can be bigger than your own.
All the proposed system is going to mean is mid/jungler is always "autofill protected" since everyone with just a half-working brain want "smurfs" in those positions.
Hell. I'm considering picking up jungle just so I can queue mid/jungle and swap everytime a mid or jungler is autofilled support for the juicy free wins. lol
That's actually hilarious, I can totally see people at least trying that out. I feel like an armchair general, but I really wonder if Riot wasn't able to brainstorm those kinds of exploits within their team, and see that this system is so prone to abuse.
Yes gambling the system by playing the majority of the games in a role you dont actually want to main. You guys are geniuses. Let me abuse public health care by inflicting self harm that will show them socialists.
On January 19 2019 23:19 Uldridge wrote: Society influences you from all its layers. There's actually a strong argument for why people tend to adhere to religions, seperate from morals, but thats an entirely different conversation.
I just thought of an analogy. Lets say your life is building a structure and how steady the structure is, is dependent on what kind of rope and knots you use. The quality of the rope and its attributes is inherent (genetics), while the knots you use will fortify or weaken the structure and rope (value system), also, if you have great parents they'll help you understand what kind of rope you're dealing with and show you which knots go best with said rope. Having shitty parents has incredible influence on your later stages of life. There's a reason daddy and mommy issues exist lol, and that's quite tame shit. Abusive or substance abusing parents leave a mark on everything you do for the rest of your life.
I mean adhering to religions can be attributed to several biases also the fact that it's super awkward to tell a religious person that their flying spaceman doesn't exist so :shrug:
You're making a lot of claims but how are we supposed to know they are true or not? Just because something makes sense doesn't mean it's true.
It could make sense your values come from the context you were raised in. It also makes sense that it's just because we evolved to live in societies so we naturally tend to cooperate.
For example, political left vs right is mostly a debate of values e.g living the "right" way vs "let people live how they want. The fact that political views are strongly connected to personality and personality generally doesn't change much over the course of someone's life indicates that you can probably predict someones values when they are 30 by doing a personality test when they are 15.
Yeah how you grow up matters. Obviously a pro tennis player is only a pro tennis player because he was taken to tennis by his parents, but maybe he could have equally been a pro baseball player or a pro soccer player as the traits needed to succeed in those sports have certain similarities.
On January 20 2019 01:59 loSleb wrote: Yes gambling the system by playing the majority of the games in a role you dont actually want to main. You guys are geniuses. Let me abuse public health care by inflicting self harm that will show them socialists.
I interpreted it more as it is incredibly beneficial to look up your teammates in champ select, and give the autofilled dude your role since they're statistically more likely to carry with their main role. It seems to be even more beneficial for mid and jungle, which are the most influential roles in soloQ right now, and there's a pretty good chance that if you take the role yourself, because so many people play those roles, the chance of getting an autofilled higher MMR jungle/mid main isn't that small.
On January 20 2019 01:59 loSleb wrote: Yes gambling the system by playing the majority of the games in a role you dont actually want to main. You guys are geniuses. Let me abuse public health care by inflicting self harm that will show them socialists.
I interpreted it more as it is incredibly beneficial to look up your teammates in champ select, and give the autofilled dude your role since they're statistically more likely to carry with their main role. It seems to be even more beneficial for mid and jungle, which are the most influential roles in soloQ right now, and there's a pretty good chance that if you take the role yourself, because so many people play those roles, the chance of getting an autofilled higher MMR jungle/mid main isn't that small.
Exactly this.
It's going to suck for support mains since our teams are less likely to have autofills for the system enforced "smurfs". Of course this is once people learn to swallow their pride and give up the role for the (most likely considerately) better player, which if Overwatch is anything to go by they will learn.
I don’t know how well riot is going to handle this, but they have a huge data set to work with and I think that if they have even half decent algorithms designers they should be able to both anticipate and adjust for all the “exploits” you guys are discussing. Although based on the design posts, I don’t think riot makes great use of their data or has that many in-house data scientists. They need to swallow their pride and be more like Netflix. A few years back Netflix posted their whole data set and just said that for anyone who could beat their in house algorithm by more than 5% they would buy the upgrade for a million dollars.
I don’t know if tiny indie game company riot could afford to pay that kind of bounty, but honestly I bet there are rocket scientists playing league who would design substantially better match making Algorithms for free just to have better games.
I think the end result (probably take Reddit/YouTube for the sheeps to realize lol) will just be champ selections where people are more open to swapping so everyone get on their most comfortable roles since it should increase the chance of winning by a significant margin. Which despite Riot's proposed goal I find to be a great side-benefit.
I'm not going to give away my role to autofilled players just because they're better than me at my chosen role. I'm playing for fun, I don't care whether I'll be 20 lp up or down after the game.
Good point about swapping actually, riot most likely never thought of this. I mean it's a ton of work to constantly check for a higher elo autofilled guy but still a valid point.
Of course this comes back to my point about people taking too many games to get to their "true elo" on their autofill roles. Having a 2200 MMR midlaner + autofille support won't make much difference from a 2300 MMR midlaner + autofill support in your example about swapping to let the higher elo guy get prio.
I think you underestimate how big of a difference there can be between how good people play some roles. I sometimes queue support/fill and if I roll jungle I always dodge unless someone want to trade. I'm hardstuck plat 1 on my main and I have a jungle only account that ended just barely gold 5.
In the proposed system I'm personally going to always swap with an autofill if I'll end up on either my primary or secondary role. It's basically like getting someone who have lost a ton of games in a row and thus their MMR dropped immensely except they are not tilted.
On January 20 2019 06:46 Sent. wrote: I'm not going to give away my role to autofilled players just because they're better than me at my chosen role. I'm playing for fun, I don't care whether I'll be 20 lp or down after the game.
Nothing wrong with playing for fun, but if there's free chance to gain LP, I'll at least consider it. Doubt I'd give my role up much, but if some obvious smurf or high ranked player ended in my game because of this, I wouldn't mind playing my second or third roles. That's coming from someone who pretty much never gives up his role, because the old system seemed to punish me for it every time with a feeding bot lane.
I don’t know how well riot is going to handle this, but they have a huge data set to work with and I think that if they have even half decent algorithms designers they should be able to both anticipate and adjust for all the “exploits” you guys are discussing
Building a more sophisticated algorithm is not the answer to everything. Algorithms by design are supposed to make general statements about vast amounts of data, and are usually not good at dealing with fringe cases or patterns the developers never considered. Just look at all the dumb AI examples in the tech industry, like that Microsoft chatbot. League doesn't need some crazy machine learning or super complicated algos trying to analyse yze your play style to queue you up, I just want an algo that creates fast queues and only considers base MMR. Worst case is the new system makes sweeping general statements that are wrong, or interprets a person's behaviour as gaming the system when really it is just a statistical anomaly.
I'm probably never getting diamond again so I guess I'll just take advantage of the positional queue system to flex about having every rank in plat as weak as that is.
your goal is to hit masters OR gold, but theres no question that gold comes before masters?
unless youre implying that youre already in between masters and gold and your one trick nunu is either going to troll you down to gold or be so wonderfully successful that you get to masters? in which case im confused as to why youd set a goal to perhaps demote yourself a few ranks
On January 21 2019 18:56 evilfatsh1t wrote: your goal is to hit masters OR gold, but theres no question that gold comes before masters?
unless youre implying that youre already in between masters and gold and your one trick nunu is either going to troll you down to gold or be so wonderfully successful that you get to masters? in which case im confused as to why youd set a goal to perhaps demote yourself a few ranks
On January 21 2019 09:55 AlterKot wrote: I'm probably never getting diamond again so I guess I'll just take advantage of the positional queue system to flex about having every rank in plat as weak as that is.
Season 8 was when I decided that I no longer will push myself to get to diamond and I'll start playing less and really casually. Now my account is level 76 and I finished the season in plat 3, however, my competitive side needs to put some targets for the game to be fun, so I might go with your plan too xDD Thanks for the idea
On January 21 2019 19:17 Fildun wrote: It's not though. It only gets interesting once something happens, be it demotion or promotion. The journey is a goal in and of itself.
Also why can't we report admins for low-content posts.
It's even worse, I tried to report the whole site for low-content but thats not possible either.
On January 22 2019 05:03 Ansibled wrote: Riot went anime too, do they usually put this much effort into promoting the start of the season?
Fortnite is the first game to actually fight them for the top spot on Twitch consistantly so they realised they can't just ride on the post DOTA wave where every other game was incompetent, too complicated, or just a mod and actually advertise. They've been pushing more ads the last few months, but the start of the new season is another good chance to push another way and perform some loss retention at the same time.
On January 22 2019 01:50 Numy wrote: He was framed iirc and truth came out? Idk
tl;dr - Riven was caught working on an Ionian farm and brought to trial for war crimes. Lore retcon now has evidence of part of Riven's blade being in Yasuo's elder's corpse, yet suspiciously that detail wasn't in the report that put the blame on Yasuo. Riven admitted to doing it, but there's definitely room for her being set up for it too, having massive PTSD, and straight up wanting to die because of the things that happened during the war, in addition to the person that spoke about the missing information in the autopsy saying they were silenced from correcting it.
The story didn't really discuss the Ionians traveling down that line of intruige, since it was focused on Riven, nor how exonerated this made Yasuo.
EPT
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